I was thinking of joining the local operator engineers union. I am in Dallas, TX and don’t know how successful this will be. I am originally from the north east where just about everything commercial is union. My goal is to learn the ropes of operating so I can eventually start my own business. I was wondering if joining the union will help me do this or will I have a better chance being non union. I have tried to get a job at a couple different companies but I lack the experience to be an operator I can run some equipment just need some seat time to really get good at it. Although with this current economy it is difficult to find that seat. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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maq, since you've joined relatively recently, you may be puzzled by qball's post. There's a chance you may not have read the forum policy regarding the discussion of unions. It can be found here. It says, in part: In other words, we've found it to be a potential hot-button topic, and try real hard to keep things fair and balanced. To spell it out for anyone who may not recognize the nuances, the Forum Policy is basically one of "aggressive neutrality". Now, having read that, you might understand why Qball would be reluctant to post in this thread at all, since he's got one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana peel, membership-wise. He, more than most members, should be watching his step. You'd be perfectly reasonable to wonder why in the world he'd have posted what he did though. I'm sure wondering what he expects. He's not stupid. :beatsme That having been said, yours was a reasonable question, and there's nobody on the staff who's going have a problem with anyone who gives you a reasonable, insightful, answer, as long as they stick to the facts, and remain within the guidelines that have been laid out.
Thanks digger I'll research the archives and see what I info I can get. After reading your post I do realize how it can be a hot button topic and didn't even think about it when I posted it.
Since Q is not allowed to voice his opinion as a union member, ill add mine as a union member. Why not join, where else can you get the training IUOE provides and you get paid for it. Anything from running a tower crane, to running a skid steer. From running a grader, to running a side boom or pipe bending machine. Not to mention the class room training. Foreman training, FIRST AID, grade stake reading/layout, and Hazmat training. We also train other unions members in classes such as Asbestos. Our 40 hour classes pay a pre diem to cover your travel costs. Where else would you get that? Not to mention our higher pay scale, pension, and healthcare for your family members. You can also work for yourself in the future on a the self employed self payment option. why hire some guy off the street that says he can do the job, when you can call the hall and get a guy that you know can do the job. Saves you time and money. Not only do we train our member, but my local also trains emergency responders. We train them in structure collapses. We teach them how to shore a damaged structure, cut through it and how to work with equipment operators in that situation. We also teach them trench rescues. Class room first, then we go out in the field, dig them a trench, and show them how to shore it up. Weather it be with a box, whalers, or other shoring systems. Now I just spent 10 minutes typing a helpful response that should help out, with any luck, this will not get deleted, as it did not attack anyone, and it should answers some your questions. If you have any others, you could send me a private message
Great post, Turbo. Thanks. Just for the record, I'll repeat what I said: Q chose to make the thread a joke. :beatsme
First of all this is not a comment - (This is what Qball actually posted , it has not been edited by the staff whatsoever) That post is not constructive nor condusive to the question asked in the thread. Why would this get deleted? You posted helpful information to the question asked.
Oh dear . . . ointhead
:lmao. its the quote that cracked me up. NOT who it refered to. :drinkup
Lets see how this one goes. opcorn
You like that one? A good friend of mine has used that one for years and years. It seems to fit the situation. Honestly, I see no reason why the on topic portion of Turbo's post shouldn't be what sets the standard for whatever follows.
Can not comment as state side union issues have no bearing on this side of the pond, Sorry . Stock
Hi maq and welcome.It sounds like your main concern is employment.My advice is if you stay non-union look for smaller excavating companys to apply at.They are more willing to let a younger,motivated,self-starting worker in the operators seat.At smaller companys everyone gets to know each other well,and in time the older operators will show you the tricks of the trade and give advice.You are also given alot of different jobs,truck driver,equipment operator,mechainic,and they will let you run a hand shovel to.I have alot of buddys in the operators union,the union has good training programs,benefits,and retirement.Some times my buddys have to travel a ways on some jobs.Good luck finding a job,and hope you get to operating soon.
Like any job that you take if you don't like it you can leave. That said try it if you can get in and then make your decision and your experience. I personally have been a union contractor since 1978. What pisses me off is not if you are union or not but the guys who cheat on prevailing wage projects. I can easily compete with any open shop tht pays the correct wages. Go for it you will never then be guessing.
I know our local around here is aggressivley going after those cheaters. By law you can request to see their books and get proof that they are paying PW. We are after several local contractors that often get low bid by a mile, and we know they are working the system somewhere. Once we find out if they are cheating on PW we can get them thrown off the public works bid lists. Its only right that everyone pay the same wage on these projects, in the name of fairness. Also, in my region, we have a low wage compared to other areas of our local. We actually call it a market recovery area. We have so much non union competition, our contractors would not be able to compete against any non union companies on anything but public works projects.
Bid a job and three union masonry contractors were over 600-620,000 & one non-union guy 550,000. The guy who took the job is 360,000 and I have his proposal in hand. It is a complicated job also.:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead Job I am doing now HVAC guys are getting 17 per hour base pay not the about 40 per hour base which doesn't include the benny's.
the training is a huge part of being union. but the main part to me is the brotherhood. if a contractor screws with me, my money, or my bennies, i can call the hall and it is taken care of. i have been off 7 months. i get calls from business agents every couple of days checking up on me. that makes me feel good. we are suffering huge amounts of unemployment now and brothers are in big trouble, so we have a food bank and member assistance. for me, knowing someone has my back is the best part.
Speedpup, I'm a non-union contractor here in ny. I will, from time to time, sign a one liner with the local ironworker's. Every project that I do is a rate/prevailing wage project and I know I would'nt attmept to cheat a person out of their rate. As you probably know, here in ny if you got caught pulling a dirty deal like that, your not only getting fined, your not allowed to price another project for five years. Also, that's why theres certified payroll (AIA)
rampant cheating on Long Island DA in Suffolk said he was cracking down but I have not seen it yet. I hear on newer projects you have to place the rates due in the pay check every week. What does that matter to a crook if he is not paying the wages anyway? Even many union contractor cheat.
Right on what Q said. And with the training you recieve, you'll have a better understanding of what your machine is capable of, how to work most efficiently and safer. IMO, the training is top shelf, as well as the comradeship you gain through membership. I have no complaint as far as pay, benefits,and pension (it's soooo nice) when work is here, and when work is slow, my brothers and sisters are looking out for me. Go for it:drinkup
you can also be owner operator in the union.
Job hunt I would investigate the geographical area where I wanted to work and assess whether the jobs that might be available or union or non-union. I would only join the union if that is what it took to get a job. I've never understood how the added overhead cost of unions makes long term economic sense in the marketplace. That having been said I was a union member when I was a steelworker many years ago.
That right there says it all! The wage cheaters are no different then the ones who hire illegal aliens and they BOTH are usually the same. Personally I've worked both sides of the "coin" heads I win tails you lose. From my own personal standpoint working your way up the list in the "local" is more rewarding then working "non".
We easily forget that the prevailing wage issue shifts dramatically when in the southern states. Dallas will not have anything even close to the same operator rates as ANY of the northern states on the eastern seaboard. With the exception of the western south, prevailing rates (union guarantee or not) will not pass the $20 per hour mark. In Texas recently my pay rate was $15 per hour, In North Dakota the same job pays close to $30 an hour with company benefits. (no union, prevailing wage garantee) These asphalt milling companies both are sub contractors to the SAME (Knife River) prime contractors on state and federal jobs. No union involvement in either area, the north gives the employee a decent pay rate because of seasonal issues and the fact that State/Fed Government guarantees it, NOT because of union membership. Unions are good in certain areas, but the majority of the public works projects in the USA do NOT submit to union control for operators or labor.
or you can look at it this way...in non-union companies 9 times out of 10 a guy has a machine assigned to him. He may be the only one in that machine over its lifetime in some cases, therefore he is going to treat that machine like it is his. In unions you might get in a machine after 100 other guys have, chances are that machine is a pile of junk by this time... also if you manage to find a large non-union company it is a safe bet to believe that they have a training program already in place to help their employees and see them advance...as well as fantastic benefits (they have to work to stay non-union)
If you're looking to get into operating, there are a couple ways you can do it. Only you can decide if the union route is right for you. Worst case scenario is that you get into the union and you don't like it. They don't own you, you can leave at any point. Might as well try it out and see if you like it that way you'll never be asking yourself down the road "what if I would've done that". The other way is to start as a laborer for a non-union outfit and work your way into a seat, which is doable as well. I am an operating engineer apprentice, 2nd year along and I've had my ups and downs. Got into the program last year, which was not a good year to be starting off with zero connections. Had a job that got me 6 weeks of work and was laid off. I'm now with a heavy highway crew and love it, it's tough to beat the gig I'm working at right now and I enjoy every minute I'm there. The main reason I went union route was for the training. I've been running heavy equipment for 6 years and have only scratched the surface of what can be learned before I got into the apprenticeship program. Our training grounds are phenomenal, we have at least 5-6 pieces in various sizes of each type of equipment, that's not including the 15+ cranes we have. The instructors are the best in what they teach, there's no question about that. Whatever I feel like learning, I can do it at the grounds. Nothing will replace seat time in regards to becoming a super skilled operator, but if you want to learn the techniques of the seasoned hands, chances are there is a class that will show you how. On top of all that, the benefits and wages are excellent. The non-union guys are starting to get close to paying what a union outfit would, but they're not quite there. As far as retirement packages go, I think I'll pass on a 401K that most companies offer after witnessing the economic crisis we've been in, it's really tough to beat a union pension.
The training is huge ...as Qball says.... Unions are not the banter or abundance of drunkin degenaerates that flop,fold,and Well ...generally screw up gear ...and return to work the next day because they have a union ...absolutly not .. The OE union in particular ..is one the few unions that trains its brother's/sister's keeps them close ..weeds out the yo/yo's as best they can and supply reliable,knowledgeable dependable tradesmen to the labour force ...in fact it is arguable in labour court that as an OE your self employed ..you longivity and employability will be with you throughout your career based on your service will determine wether you make it as an OE or become a millwright.