Hey Guys I was just wondering what you feelings are on unions like local operators union like the one we have in CT here? Are they any good or should I stay Far away from them. See I was going to fill out the application in December for ther apprenticship program they are starting in march 06, But i want to get the genral feeling of if this is a good way to get training on running equipment. I was suppose to got to the school In FL but had to drop out because of Ihave been and still is dealing with health problems with my father. But a friend told me about the local union in Ct here (local 478 operator engineers) and I figured I would ask your guys opinion. The apprenticship is 4 years and they training ranges from skid steers all the way up to when you complete it you get you crane Liscense. So give me your opinions good or bad I want honest ones so I can make a good descion on this. and as always guys thanks.
It's almost impossible to get in !!! but if you can go for it!!!!
Why not work for a non-union company and start learning on the machines there? Where i work, i drive a truck full time, but theres always a chance to hop on a piece of equipment and load myself, or they'll send me to run a machine at a job for a few days.
This is one of the options that I am looking at for when I finish college. The guy that I talked to from our local union (825) in the summer said that things were very slow for them. If they are slow in the summer then what is the winter going to be like? Like anything there are positives and negatives. Some days it would mean a 2 hour commute and with the price of gas, it would almost make more sense to work at McDonalds, however I would not be responsible for the purchase and maintenance of equipment. If they have openings and consistent work it is probably a very good way to get experience on equipment and save up to buy your own stuff eventually.
im union and have been since 97. i got lucky on getting in. i was hired on thru a permit to a company that i spent 5 years with. the boss really took a liking to me and helped me get my card. as far as the appernticeship program goes its a good learning experince. the down fall is there will be 200 or more applicants.. and only 5 postions. thats justa guess but i bet its not far off. good luck payton
That would be great but belive it or not I have applyed to numrous companines and got the same answer from all of them "YOU NEED EXPERINCE" well now how the hell do I get the experince if No one will give me the chance and hire me. Its like you need experince to get the job but they will not give you the job with out experince. :spaz :spaz
Not operating engineers bit im IBEW Local 164 I love my union and I had 2 years of working non union and id never go back, willingly at least. I still plan to go out on my own, and id hire union labor. Their training for any construction union is always top notch. And saftey is ALWAYS number 1 on ANY union job. If you can get in, go for it. Just plan on not working 2080 hours every single year, sometimes more, some times less. Its feast or famine in this game.
You must be planning on going after alot of big jobs when you go out on your own.I know I would not hire uninon for small projects I have had to work with alot of union guys and to be quite honest they where lazy or maybe a better phrase would be dragging there feet on the job.Or when quitting time came it was quitting time even if they could finish a job that would take another 15 min , even if there was nonuion people working beside them .
unions are both good and bad. im union but if the right oppurtunity(sp) came along id take it union or non. there are a lot of guys who live and breath by the union. but then again theres guys out there who do what ever it takes to get the job done. its all about the individual. and feast of fammine is the truth. some years its gold other years your thinking to yourself damn i could make more at mcdonalds. payton
The union shines when it comes to big jobs, thats why it works the way it does, and like I said training is what we are all about. And ya know what, in this country most Americanized Americans are pretty lazy, in every aspect of life, drive thoughs, fast food, TV dinners, ect, its the American way, its too bad. Im not lazy but I wont keep up with some border jumper either, I dont have to im educated. Or when quitting time came it was quitting time even if they could finish a job that would take another 15 min , even if there was nonuion people working beside them . TO me, quitting time, means just that, if its another 15 min today then its 15 min the next day, we work exactly to what our contract says, which is 8 hours a day, no more, no less (well if it is more, then its OT)
I think that the difference may be that tomorrow's 15min of work will be after 30min of checking the dozer or unpacking the rakes and shovels or whatever you were doing which then is 45min on the clock v. 15min. Sounds like the 2 views are from the guy who owns the business v. the guy who works for the business. Both are valid. That said - I think that unions are very much needed to act as a "circuit breaker" against big corporations getting too greedy or too powerful and taking advantage of their workers. I'd also guess that the union being in place protecting it's members is also helping similar non members get a decent wage and that is part of what makes the "border jumpers" jump the borders... Ouch - too much thinking. Need Bourbon...
Well it was that type of thing that made this co say never agin for any union people.Especially when they hired movers and such to more the furniture for these union carpet installers. And they said pretty much what you said it's quitting time.So needless to say for another 15 min the movers had to come back that were willing to stay to finish and get the bussiness back in bussiness and needless to say they cost the co. more money all around. I had to do work some work where union guys where and they screwed me up because of that same thought hey we are on the clock we can't get fired.so they made me have to work longer and harder.So to be hounest back in the 20's maybe it was good to have unions but now i thing they cost us money as most of the stuff that comes here is from tiwain,china and japan. And if i had to work some where where there are union I will not do it or will have to charge more for the time that will be wsted not be me but them.
The intresting thing is that if your company does not bid the bigger jobs that might require union labor, isnt that sort of putting the nail in the coffen? As a unorganized worker, knowing that if we oraganize and I can get more money, better benifits, training and a pension, why would I not organize? True not all union workers are worth their wage, that is why they are unemployed. But I worked non union and now im union my work habbits have not changed, im still a hard worker, many of us do pride ourselves in an honest days work, so please dont sterotype all of us. Why you do only smaller jobs, playing people under prevailing wage, some employees might have the brains to say "hey whats stopping me from going out on my own?" In my area small time tree, excavating, landscaping/landscape construction companies are a dime a dozen. now. It used to be 50 bucks to get our driveway cleared when there was alot of snow, now some Mexican can come by in a beat up truck and and i can get it done for $15, if not less for it; I dont go that route b/c my buddie plows, but why pay $50, who cares that the legit contractor is insured, and is legit, all I know if I want the snow off my drive way. What happend is these guys came to this country illeagly and worked for people, and then went out on their own and are doing cheaper then anyone else can/ Some small construction companies that dominated this area, and where extablished 40-50 years ago are not the forces in the market they used to be. Now the other problem is, and it was just in the paper today, the illeagals that are employed by some the owners of theses companies are getting robbed in their own houses by the illeagal worker turned criminal. When we get laid off we dont go and find the ownered wife and try to kidnap her for randsom. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15677209&BRD=1918&PAG=461&dept_id=506414&rfi=6
Well I didn't say that your not an honest hard working guy but all they guys that I have seen or had to deal with had that attitude. Plus another union carpenter that i knoew siad if he didn't hold some sign for an election he would not be on the hireing list?? so you don't like this guy but have to hold a sign for him what is that? Just all the dealings that I have had where not favorable.It might work for some places and people. I'm more or less a one guy operation so if theres no employees that are getting underpaid and any other workers are subs that I get so no problem with being under paid they just won't work for me if that is the case. If it's working for ya keep it going . it just doesn't work for me .
I am 36 years old and I am a 16 year member of Local 150 Operating Engineers. First of all I challange anyone to match the training we get. Our state of the art training site has every peice of equipment you can run. Even as a Journeyman I go out to the training site to improve my skills. One of my teachers is my Father who has 48 years in Local 150 running equipment. Many people like to bash the Unions but Nobody would make the money they make if it were 'nt for the Unions. When I go to work I do 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. United we stand devided we beg.
. After 13 years, I like to have the option of telling a contractor to stick it, and go out the next day, same pay, different job. Of course, they have that option too!LOL :usa Don't mistake the Operators union for UAW, you have to produce or you are down the road. Work summers, winters off, can't beat it. Good an bad.
hey big george any advice on getting into the 150
Well guys I appricate the replyies and I filled out the application, and took there mechanical apptitude test last week and I should know in january some time. Wish me luck I hope everything goes good for me and if i get in I will try to absorb the good parts of it and try to ingnore the bad parts. :usa :usa
I hope it works out well for you. I'm probably going to fill out an application for my local union around January. What kind of things did they ask on the test? I imagine the questions are pretty similar between different unions and it would be helpful to have a general idea of what they ask. Thanks
honestly if you have any and i do mean any common sense you will have know problem what so ever. At least with the one i took for local 478 in ct it was question like if you had a 40ft tall tank and two 20 ft tall tanks which will hold the most or are they the same well i think we can all figure out the answer. mine had questions like that. Another one that comes to mind is two guys are carrying a board over there shoulders and there is a rock will say on that board and it is closer to the guy in the front the question is who is carrying more weight the guy in the back or the guy in the front with the rock right behind him. I think again we can figure out the answer. But like i said before if you have common sense you will do fine. At least this is the one i took in ct so yours might be diffrent.
That's good to hear. I had gotten a book from the library that said it was a study guide for the mechanical aptitude test and one question said to identify the hammer and it had pictures of a hammer, wrench, screwdriver, and something else. I thought "this can't be right, I'd have to be a moron to get it wrong", but I guess that's exactly who they want to get rid of.
I don't want to be a downer But you probably have a better chance at winning the lottery!!!! Now if you were a woman !!!! you be hirer tomorrow!
Dear alexkcl, The best way to get into Local 150 is to go out to the training site and fill out an application. The site is located at Webber Road and Airport Road in Plainfeild Illinois. If you let me know where you are coming from I can get you better directions. If you have any experience running equipment it will help you because they take you out on the equipment and see if you have the ability to run equipment before you are accepted to the program. If you let me know what area you live in I can let you know what district you live in and you could go into you dictrict union hall and talk to one of the Buisness Agents. I would be glad to answer any questions you have. Just send me a private message.
Well update I did not make it, They do not tell you why they just send you a letter stating thanks but try next year, :crying :crying Oh well i guess i will try next year again. :usa Might go to school to become a truck driver or maybe to become a mechanic have not decided yet.
cant beat union training. arizona is a right to work state so union is week here. i would have loved to have gone thru their apprentice ship . i was accepted back in the late 80 s . decided i knew it all already .lol ya know 20 years old knew everything.lol lol i work non union but again the training the union gives you is second to none.
I think with all the dues and what not that a guy pays the training should be top shelf.
:usa This " Border Jumper " Is Educated ... and served this Country 9/11 and Iraq.... You Choose not to work hard ... We just seem like we we work hard when compared to a Lazy ass
My company is union and we work hard and do what it takes to get the job done. I compete against a non-union company for site work and utilities a lot and they cut my price in half due to the fact they don't pay prevailing wage and screw with their employees paychecks. Union companies don't do that. If my guys work 12 hours they get a check for 12 hours. Union is the way to get all the big work is union work.
So, you came in illegally and joined the army?
Before this gets out of hand... I'm sure that no reasonable person is going to advocate that anybody come to America as an illegal immigrant. The subject of illegal aliens is a hot-button issue for many people these days, and how it should be dealt with makes for many spirited discussions-- none of which need to take place here on HEF . That having been said, I suspect that FRodriguez is reacting to the perception that many people presume that anyone of Hispanic origin is here illegally. We all know that isn't true--many people with Hispanic roots have migrated here legally, and many have been born here. That's why it's dangerous to pre-judge any individual based on ethnic information alone--unless you know that individual, you have a good chance of being in the wrong. "Border jumper" is an unfortunate choice of terms, and as can be seen, perpetuates misunderstanding. And this is a good opportunity to remind everyone, that unless all of your ancestors were here sometime prior to 1492, you (meaning any American reading this), are descended of immigrants. America has long been known as the "land of opportunity", but anyone that has chosen to come here and take advantage of that opportunity has done so knowing, that to realize that opportunity, hard work is required. I fear that many who've been born to the priviledge of living here, somehow missed that important point. Today's immigrants recognize it, just as our ancestors recognized it--as fact. We had best not forget it. Now, if anyone wishes to continue the discussion by advocating lazieness, carry on...
Yes, Border Jumper was a poor choice of words, as was "THIS" country, implying that even though he served the US military, it was still not "HIS" country, and "we" I suspect means Hispanic, once again drawing a line. The USA is the land of opportunity for all races. The reason this country has worked so well, is when someone immigrates, they learned the language, and BECAME Americans, not hyphenated-Americans. I have worked with all races. Hard working or lazy comes in all shapes, sizes, or colors.:usa
In Reality I was born and raise State side .. My parents came the little island of cuba in 1959. My Grandfather did Hydralic work on the side of the road getting jobs in broken english. That is what has Sparked a Flame to become an Operator , I do appoligize for going off the deep end there. Oh and I was Air Force :usa :drinkup
Shoot, your as American as the rest of us. You're not a rogue Mexican bandit numbering in the millions storming across the Rio Grande and demanding health care and Social Security checks!
LOL No Way .... Iam here to Be an American .... if I want to be cuban I pretty sure it alot easier getting into Cuba. Yea I Speak Spanish ... it dosent mean I want everyone in the ENGLISH Speaking country to have too... And another Thought When Mexicans Cross the border ,,, why are they leaving a Country in which they can make changes in. Cuba ... They just Shoot,beat,mame, torcher and of ofcourse Strave.
Welcome FRodriguez :usa :notworthy Preach on brother !!:drinkup
Unions! Partly good and Partly bad. The only thing that I don't like is if I joined the local operators union, if I buy my own machine and start a business, then I have to hire an operator from the union to operate it. If I have 2 machines then I can run one. But still have to hire someone and pay them the going rate which is depending on machine size about $33/hour plus the benifit package and state L&I etc etc.probably comes to about $50 or more for the business owner. On the plus side, if you are in the union and have 5 years on the job you have at that point $2000/month retirement, more years more money. And an appretice starts at $18/hour. Now we see why these freeway jobs drag on and no ones in a hurry to get it done.
The thing that bugs me is that my union dues will go to canidates that I do not support ... and they for some reason dont really stand for the Moral and Ethical Beliefs that were the founding principal of this country. Quite sad but i have a Family to support and I dont really know anyone other than family here in missouri.
:Banghead the age old problem
So.... Your union dues is also the reason you will make more money. Sure, there are some non union company's that are willing to pay at or above union scale. But the majority pay @ 50% of union scale. The bottom line....and all B.S. aside, if you go out to a union job, do the best job you can, keep your mouth shut and don't worry about where your dues money goes. How can I say this, being a IUOE Local 12 member myself? No body wants to hear the whining on a job. There are many things that don't seem right, and many things that you wont agree with. I know it seems wrong, but the more you stir the pot, the more it stinks..... so now, you sit home. Just worry about yourself, your job and your family. Those are the only things you can change.... and the only things that really matter. Like I said above, I an an operating engineer and have paid dues since 1986. Early on, I learned not to stir the pot. I went to the wazoo general membership meetings, and did as everyone else did for the first few years. Then I asked a question at one of these wazoo membership meetings..... and was quietly escorted outside. Long story.....but I stirred the pot and it stank. I've never been back to a wazoo meeting since. Now, I dont feel the need to get involved in the politics and such of the Union. I have not the time or energy to waste. I worry about #1.....Me. Thats all. I pay my dues once a year, get some stickers, pins, and a calender and go about doing my thing. Working Union is and has been great to me. But you need to remember, your brother operator will be the first one to stab you in the back. Those things happen.....thats the only way some of them can keep a job. Remember, always look out for # 1.... Some way, some how, I've been blessed when it comes to work. The reason I have always worked is "Me". Not the Local. Sure they have found me a few jobs. I've found some of my own jobs. Sure, its a no no..... So what? I look out for #1. I landed a job 8 years ago with a awesome union co. I give 110% and then some, and they take care of me... and then some. They pay me my union wage but anything above and beyond that is their and my business. Not the locals, not anyone else's. I have built a strong working relationship with the people I work for. I always look out for their best interest. They do the same for me. They know that when I came to work for them, it wasn't to make friends. It was to make money. And if something goes wrong, they trust my judgment and ability to handle the problem. So like anything else, unions have pros and cons. Learn every thing you can. Learn every day. Expect the best....dont settle for anything less... And, always look out for #1! :cool2
Thank you Iam a hard worker and the only people I care about is me and my Familyand I Agree 112% with ya. It is encouraging to hear form Union member say it how it is ... Agin Thank you all ... The information I have Garnerd from this site and the situations Ive read about will surely help me avoid the Pile I would have steped in. Greatly appreciated ....... I do Have a question though ... What Material could I read or do ... to prepare me for the Apprenticeship or the rest of my Career ...any sugestions would be helpful ... Thank and God Bless.
There ya go!!!!
Or black......
I drove OTR 5 1/2 yrs for a Co. while being in the Teamster's union. This is the first and only union I've been involved with. We were making better money than other company drivers in this area, and had good benifit's, but.................. They did have rules about everything . I believe our pay and benifit's were higher because of the union, but the job was barely tolerable because the management treated us like we were their enemy. The constant tension between the union and managment caused the drivers alot of headaches. We were expected to do many other task's besides simply driving the truck. We were even expected to change tires on the truck and trailer when they blew while on the road. They supplied spares, jacks and breaker bars. Unloading freight was expected at certain customers too. I'm glad to be gone from that job. The money and beni's didn't make up for the hostile work enviroment. I don't know that if it would've been different without the union though.:beatsme
In my lifetime, I've seen at least 3 different companies either close the doors due to the union workers' antics, or close the doors due to greed on the workers' part. I'm not speaking out against them totally; I'd take a union job in an instant if it kept me sleeping in my own bed every night nowadays. I have just been around one too many dispute or unecessary deal with union woes that I'm still a little hesitant. There are very few men in my opinion, that are getting paid union scale, and have adopted the union's " I ain't doin' that, it ain't MY job..." mentality, that are worth their wage. Like what was mentioned earlier in this thread, if it's a matter of completing a job in another 15 minutes or even a stinking 1/2 hour to eliminate an arse ache the following morning, then 9 times out of 10 a civil minded man will do what it takes to get it done. I've seen the incomplete version one too many times with my own eyes... Don't misunderstand...not knocking the brotherhood or anything...just simply stating the solemn truth. I know the old blocklayers' rule: If there are more than 12 drops of rain on an 8" X 16" concrete block, it's quitting time no matter what time they started working. Meanwhile, I'm the one down in the ditch,(non-union, trying to support my family,) in the rain with my shoes 4 times the size from the clay stuck to them, trying to finish up the footing drains... It's a double-edged sword I guess.:cool2
10-4 :iagree I often wonder how some people can stay in business today with all the milking/gravy sucking that goes on? But people will be greedy and do as little as possible on both union and non union jobs. It happens everywhere. Things like pride, honesty and good work ethics have all but gone down the toilet. Thats why I prefer to be a employee and not an employer. I'd fire them faster than I could find them. When I do work my own jobs, I mostly work alone. Good help is hard to find. :deadhorse We just got another pay raise a few months ago. What worries me is that unions will price themselves right out of a job. I've seen many people who aren't worth the money they get paid. It's them that motivates me to do the absolute best job that I can do. :cool2
Whats with the minority thing in the union ..... Why cant i just be an American .... Why does it have to be Cuban- American or mexican American ... Why cant i just be an american ... I believe There are no such things as minorities here in the U.S Just Americans and Illegals .... I think Its so much BS that just beacuse of last name they will give me a Good job over someone how who is more qualified ... Really pisses me off ointhead :beatsme
You're the exception to the rule as far as work ethic and the other attributes you mentioned. Like I said, I've been on countless jobs with and without union laborers, and you see the difference plain as day in the environment. I'm a "bull in the china closet" type of worker. Put my head down and charge into anything.(Within reason, and with good sense, of course. This is just an example.) Whatever it takes to get it done, do it and to the end. My Uncle which served in the Korean War was a Field Sargeant in the Army in the construction/demolition/rebuilding fields. He said they had a saying that I personally love and try to live by: "The difficult takes time...the IMPOSSIBLE takes just a little bit longer ..." I can relate to your attitude as a union worker moreso than average. Stick to yourself, apply yourself, give it your all. That'll keep you in the game every time. When I get around these primadonna's that won't lift a finger for anything more than they're programmed to do, I want to vomit. A good size grocery warehouse/trucking co. in Ct. just got a wakeup call last year on this topic. The drivers were needling the union about everything. They weren't rolling down landing gear anymore, so the company spent a furtune on motorized landing gear that you push a button and they go up & down. They were fitting the 5th wheels with automatic pin releases from inside the cab. (Come on...you want a nipple for your coffee cup too, boys?) It all caught up with them at the end of the year when the company moved the whole operation to Mass. and a large number of those primadonnas were out of a job. It's going to be tough to find another one with automatic landing gear and 5th wheel latch releases I'd imagine...Especially the ones with Hummer and Escalade payments...:cool2
That is why so much is outsourced nowadays. It is cheaper to ship materials out to be made into something in say china then ship it back. Than to make locally. Case in point look at how much timber is exported, then finished product ie: furniture cabanets even flooring, especailly veneer. China pays more for the veneer to than local.
Don't get me wrong theres a lot of times unions can mess things up. But for the most part if you get a good group of guys your all set. My guys will do anything for me and I'll d anything for them. Throw them bonuses here and there, nice machines to run simple things like that help out to keep morale up.