Sorry about the 30 second ad video, but ABC news reports. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-...513?tab=9482930?ion=1206853&playlist=14594944 Just noticed the date of this of 9/23/11, sorry if it has been brought up already.
Not to good!
Wow.....I really have no idea what else to say.
As far as i know it's american contractors buying steel from chinese companies. I remember looking into this when it was a big deal. They made it sounds like it chinese companies are the prime contractors and are importing workers because it makes for better news.
Yeah I don't have much faith in the Chinese foundry and manufacturing sectors.
Sounds like they are doing a lot of the fabrication work abroad and then shipping in the assmbled pices to the US so even thought it is still American workers buildinging the bridge they are using Chinese workers to build the pieces. Its Just the media puting their twist on it so that we all pay attention. They love to spin doom and gloom. What they leave out is that America produces about as much steel today as we did in the 1930's! How else are we going to build steel bridges unless we get steel from other countries.
If there's no demand for it, why would they make more? Now, if they would order American made steel, there would be a demand. They could make more, and keep more folks working....just a thought. Incidentally, the average raw steel production for the 30s was right around 32 million tons per year. In 2011, the US produced 86,247,000 tons of raw steel. So your estimate isn't really very accurate.
It just makes me sick, we were a nation of producers now a nation of consumers. Not only were the jobs lost but the profit of the job will go back to China, just stupid!
The video that they showed on ABC for one of the bridges in CA it had Chinese contractor and Chinese workers. They declinded to use federal funds so they could have the steel and the work be done by foreigners. All the pictures showed Chinese. I wouldn't surprise me CA is broke, from dumb things like this. If they had Americans doing the work the money would stay here, and help CA they don't want to help even them selves.
I think they buy our scrap iron then sell it back to us.For good Steel.
you are correct that the US produced about 86,000,000 tons of raw steel in 2011. This number however, is small in comparison to China's production of 700,000,000 or about 45% of the worlds raw steel production. Legacy cost is what is killing Americas ability to compete in a global market. Unless our steel producers decide to embrace consolidation and globalization each year the US will account for less and less of the global steel production.
. The NAFTA agreement opened the door for foreign countries to do what they are doing now. I was told over 20 years ago by ( a smart economist ) that Chinaese Companies and Chinese workers will be doing all of the American jobs. They will be imported like bees in a hive and work cheaper than the Mexicans. This is just the beginning, and they are already doing this in Africa on a very large scale, only using Native Africans to do cleanup and shovel work Manually. With all of the foreclosed on empty houses, they will pile in groups like work camps. .
did some work a Boeing/Spirit in Kansas , all the steel for the building had made in messico stickers on it.
. China was sending their steel of all kinds to the United States from back in the 1980"s. .
While the State of California is shoving CARB rules down the throats of their local contractors, the DOT hires out bridge fabrication to a Chinese firm. What amount of the "savings" the DOT received were from the Chinese company NOT having to adhere to CARB rules overseas?:cool2 When the Gov't purposely handicaps our industries with environmental and other regulations that foreign companies do not have to follow and then have the audacity to say they saved money by going with a foreign made product is Traitorous, despicable and disgusting. I have been to China twice and they care not about their environment....
Agree to that, free trade just opened the door for other countries to develop on our money. Import foreign goods and export jobs, brilliant!!
That guy from Cali stated that there's a shortage of American welders.I simply will not believe that.If they're not already living/working there,I'm positive that there would be plenty of eager welders from Steam fitters unions in any state willing to travel.I smell BS!!!!
Ahhh, but what he meant to say, is that there is a shortage of American welders who are willing to work for $3 an hour. We had a company import temporary foreign workers because they couldn't find Canadian workers... (who were willing to work for peanuts) . They ended up having to redo a bunch of the work as the plant was falling apart during commissioning. Saved a lot of money there. eh?
Interesting... I've been in China for three months and I love their environment, the people around and their way of living.
disgraceful that the government would allow this
I see. Thanks anyway
dont think just because the stoped making it in the USA that it goes to china heaps of jobs are leaving china also and NOT going back to the USA they are going to cheaper places like vietnam , india , phillippines and so on. and trust me i would love there to be more products manufactured in my home contry of australia but it just cant be until people change there ways seriously in australia everyone really when it comes to just about buying anything all they want is cheap look at Walmart. the US might be differant just saying what i know
I agree with you on that. I actually buy products from my home country and support those.
Well I look at bethlehem steel as an example. One of the largest steel firms in the world 60 years ago. But as the 70s and 80s came and went, the labour rates were so high that they couldn't compete with the foreign steel. The labour rates here in north america were climbing sharply but not overseas. Once the foreign steel got to a point where the price was much lower than local steel, the us firms had no choice but to use the foreign as a way to maintain a competitive price for the bidding process. It sucks for sure, but that's the way it is in a global market. Now bethlehem is nothing more than a memory.
I cannot open the link containing the video. Anyone can send me another link? This is very interesting topic.
Why you say so? I don't get it dude
anything else?
Its their way of surviving. I think they buy those steel in the US and improve them then they sell it back with higher price. What do you think?
Its their way also of surviving. I think they buy those steel in the US and improve them then they sell it back with higher price. What do you think? They cannot made their own output that's why they just buy items from other county and revise it.
Then you have never been to the industrial parts of China. The tourist parts are beautiful but places like SinJhin and Tianjin are a different story.
I haven't been there. Can you share it here?
Typical ABC inacturate BS, they wouldn't know the truth if it bite them in the butt. 1) The steel for the bridge in California is being fabricated in China, C.C. Meyers is the General Contractor, Clint Meyers is not Chinese. 2) The Alexander Hamilton Bridge in NYC is a Joint Venture of Halmar and China Construction America, ALL the Labor on the job is from the NYC building trades, no Chinese labor. Some of the TEMPORARY steel for support of the existing structures was fabricated in China, this was because of scheduling, the US mills were too busy.
Can you please site at least five steels that China sent to the United States?
Is it really a big deal for USA?
I guess so.
Its kinda neat to see the spambots start talking to each other.
Sonds like they're not real good at bridges anyway... :cool2
What are you talking about? http://americanmanufacturing.org/blog/deceitful-chinese-bid-oakland-bay-bridge-harms-california Please read this to get some facts on this bridge in San Francisco. Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industries Co. is the prime on the job. Shanghai Zhenhua is a unit of Hong Kong-listed China Communications Construction Co. and the article states that the reason they got the bid was not because American manufacturers could not provide the steel, it was because Zhenhua set a schedule that American contractors could not meet. Read the article; the Chinese couldn't meet the schedule either and the "the whole project is three years behind schedule and $5.2 billion over budget". READ AND LEARN FELLOW AMERICANS!
mate that source seems sketchy at best it was posted by someone who did not even put there name to the artical so yeah i think i would stick with RBMcCloskey first part "Posted by Anonymous on 07/18/2011 " (yeah seems legit for sure)"
The sad fact is that China overtook America in the steel production and steel fabrication business around 10 years ago, and it's probably a bitter pill for most Americans to swallow, when American steel dominated the world for so many decades. China produced over 683,000,000 tonnes of finished steel last year, and perhaps a few million tonnes less this year. Compare that with U.S. steel production that will be struggling to produce 100,000,000 tonnes of steel this year. U.S. steel production peaked in the early 1970's at about 150,000,000 tonnes. The Chinese rapid acceptance of, and construction of, large numbers of electric arc furnace steel mills has seen their steel production soar with correspondingly lower production costs. In the U.S., electric arc furnace steel production is barely 50% of total steel production. America has had to import steel for the last 4 decades to meet demand, and nothing has changed in the last few years to change that scenario. The Chinese steel quality isn't a problem, because the largest amount of furnace feed in China comes from the highest quality iron ore in the world - West Australian iron ore. More of a concern is the CA Govts attempt to cut bridge costs by using Chinese labour in the fabrication of the bridge sections. Most Chinese labour is relatively unskilled, they have poor education, and struggle to read and comprehend instructions and plans. Most are rural peasants, drawn to the factories by the lure of high wages. The average wage for a Chinese worker in the steel fab industry in China is $9 a day. The workers are grumbling a bit, because they reckon they should be getting $12 a day, due to internal cost pressures. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Chinese workers start to agitate for better wages. I don't think they've got the "Chinese Union of Steel Workers" to help them get their pay increase! Any strikes or revolt by the Chinese steel workers will be put down violently by the PLA, they will just move in and shoot them, and organise replacements. I'm really glad I live where I do! The bottom line is that the CA Govt claims they saved $400M by getting the steel from China, and the fabrication done by the Chinese. On a $7.2B job, that's not a huge saving. The steel part is probably O.K. - but the unless the fabrication has been scrutinised carefully, and proper quality controls instituted - and the bridge falls apart because of poor construction work, who is going to pick up the tab? Not the Chinese, I'll wager. It will be the long-suffering ole U.S. taxpayers once again - and all to try and save a measly $400M on a $7.2B job??
OzDozer Mate i could not agree with you more
Everyone has to do their own research. It's all over the net. But people see what they want to see. Every time I try to write a long rebuttal, it seems the site times me out and loses the quotes. But suffice it to say free trade is not fair trade and I will always support regulations that favor my country and my workers. Abuses always happen, by governments, by corporations, and yes, by workers but will never be stopped by deregulating anything.
OzDozer, you either have a secretary or it's too damned hot to do anything in WA. Your responses are alway well thought out and complete. Let's complain about the Chinese having an industrial age. You remember, we had one, we did the same things to the environment, when it came time to clean it up, a lot of companies closed or moved offshore. The places that are still around are busy and profitable. It's only bad now cause we can't do it here. When did heavy equipment operator suddenly start having so much love for the environment? Oh yeah, the government shoved it down our throats, and we didn't like it. Cheers, Tom OzDozer I'm getting tired of typing just this much.
Because the rate they are building them and the amount they pollute is so much greater than ever before? We used to use DDT but found out the downside for the environment. The hazards of second hand smoke, not using earplugs, too much UV exposure, drinking and driving. All lot of things that are hazardous and we know can be done better, should be. We have the technology, so just do it.
Their are many things that have been banned. It usually take a long time, because the manufacturer of the product usually fights like hell to keep using it, and even if it gets banned here the company will still keep selling in other markets. Then years later after a crap load of litigation, we find out they knew all along and just covered it up. How much did people bitch about emission controls when they came out on cars? Who's cut a cat off or removed other pieces of the emission system? I think the pollution argument is pretty lame, check out the oil-sands next time you want to get on your 'we're better than you' soap box.
The problem is that the basic unfettered "free market" policy and beliefs of the U.S., and the beliefs of the espousers of unregulated capitalism, is that no such thing as a level playing field exists. There's no such thing as a level playing field in commerce, because the Chinese can tilt the field anytime they want, to suit their needs and wants. Even the U.S. Govt regularly turns to American trade and corporate protection, when U.S companies squeal like hogs because someone like the Chinese is invading their market by unfair trade practices. Every company and every worker needs and should get some kind of basic protection from marauders who are bigger than them, and who can tilt the pinball machine. Rarely is the "complete picture" seen by any policitian, CEO, or even workers - where every single factor, including long-term ones - and ones that appear to have little bearing on the issue - have to be considered. Pollution control costs are just one factor to be considered - there are many more, some deeply hidden. Destruction of competitive companies and industries is often a hidden agenda, and this agenda doesn't have to come from overseas, either. The basic issue is that the American Industrial Revolution is mature, and the Chinese Industrial Revolution has only just started in the last 10 years. Where America was in the early 1900's is where China is, right now. The simple fact is that America can no longer compete with China on the basic stuff like turning iron ore into steel, or constructing large projects where labour is intensive and labour costs are high. America has to keep at the front of the technological curve, and accept that China can now do major production, construction and fabrication work - that America used to do best - every bit as good as America can, or did do. The Chinese will eventually have to face up to their pollution problems, exactly as Taiwan did. Pollution remediation is a huge activity in Taiwan today, but little is known of it. China will eventually accept pollution controls and laws, particularly if it wants to continue to deal with, and supply finished products, to the Western world. Most importantly, China has to understand they have to address their QC problems, and be able to meet Western standards in this area. One hopes that the continuous infusion of Western technology and QC methods into China will eventually overcome the Chinese attitude that "cheapest is best", and their belief that standards specifications can be ignored.
China will not advance unless and until they give up the idea that cheating someone is cleaver and the desired way to do business.
Exactly my thoughts John. Unfortunately, they may figure this out by way of Western influences such as consulting firms, expatriate hiring, competition, and experience. Just look at the Japanese industry history. They produced nothing but cheap crap in the 1950's but lead the pack in quality nowadays. I do understand that it's two different countries and two different cultures and I highly doubt it'll happen as quickly as in Japan, but it could happen. Something has to be done to level the playing field for the US, otherwise this "globalization" will equalize wages as I fear by bringing down wages for Americans and raising wages for offshore producers. American workers have a lot more to lose in wages than than their offshore counterparts have to gain. Another problem I see is the blatant disregard of patent and copyright laws that the Chinese and others totally ignore. An American(or any) company can't survive if its homeland will not enforce this basic protection of vast amounts of R&D resources, only to have their product reverse engineered and undercut on the market. I just don't see the rationale of California or other states hiring the Chinese for any project on domestic soil. How could anyone think that this would save money or produce jobs in the long run when so many Americans are out of work?
I'd change that to read, "...until they give up the idea that cheating their customers is cleaver and the desired way to do business." Lots of guys have gotten ahead by cheating on their competitors. That's where some sort of oversight comes in handy...
If we had an administraton and adminstartors this would not have happened and that stim money would have been ear marked for this countries companies and people. It's a crime what happened with that stimlus money! Everyone can say all they want but look what happened!
I believe the California job was not done with stimulus money. Because if it were stimulus money, they would have had to use U.S. fabbed steel. At least that was in the article I read.
I believe that big bridge in LA is an example of the stim. When I was in LA they were having a fit over it because the City council said that the American companies couldn't do the job. Look up some of the Times articles. I was told it was stim money.