G'day from Western Australia, I have heard that some years ago Caterpillar said you could use engine oil in hydrostatic transmissions. I have a Cat 943 traxcavator (yep that one with the BIG tranny problem last year!), and whilst I don't know what oil is actually in the tranny at the moment, it smells like hyd oil and not engine oil. My question is can I mix the oil in the tranny? I have acquired 40 litres of BP Vanellus M20 oil, which is mono grade engine oil for very cold areas. I live in Australia so it's not really suitable for use in my engine. But could I use it in the transmission, even if it meant mixing it with whatever is already in the there? Thanks! AG
The O&M Manual says Use Engine Service Classification CC, CC/SF, CD or industrial-type hydraulic oils that are certified by the oil supplier to have antiwear, antifoam, antirust, and antioxidation additive properties for heavy duty use. So yes, you can use an engine oil according to that. From the BP Data Sheet - BP Vanellus Mono 20W is suitable for use in diesel and gasoline engines as well as certain transmission, hydraulic and other applications that specify a monograde engine oil. Vanellus Mono 20 is API CF classification, so higher specification than what the manual demands. These track loaders can be weird though. You really need one of our resident experts to give and opinion. CMark ............... Shop...........!!
I recall when the CAT Hystats were first released back in the 80's a big selling point was that all compartments could use 15w40, that didn't last very long though...thinking a few failures may have sent them back to the drawing board.
Yes uncle Arkwright! As we all know, viscosity is vital to these things working properly. 20W is not 10W whichever way you look at it, so running a heavier oil may affect how the tranny works, especially at lower temperature. As far as the specification regarding antiwear and additive package goes, the OMM was written some 30 years ago. Lube tech advances every year and the oil companies spend millions improving things. My personal opinion is that you should use the latest and greatest available which right now is Cat Advanced HYDO. If I actually owned a Cat Hystat track loader, considering what's involved in a major failure, I would be looking after it like my first born.
Fine and admirable sentiments Cmark, and whilst I would normally agree with them, even on my old tractor, I did get this Vanellus M20 oil for zero dollars as part of an auction lot. So I’m trying my best to see if I can use it somewhere. As a result of all of your comments, further research has revealed some interesting reading and to some extent, reinforces my belief about oil companies – having worked in BP Oil refineries making the stuff for 20 odd years! But we only made the basestock oil and the refinery specs bore no resemblance to what you’d see on the back of a retail oil container! Then this basestock oil would go to Mobil, Shell, Castrol, Duckhams, BP etc places to be mixed with additives. But it was all made at the same refinery. http://www.ssbtractor.com/wwwboard/view_all.cgi?bd=caterpillar&msg=3246 http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php http://www.bplubricants.com/en/products/vanellus-mono-10w-20w-30-40 Oil companies are there to sell oil. Caterpillar is there to sell Cat stuff. So when one looks at what Cat say about using substitutes in the link above, it’s easy to be sceptical. It seems a decent engine oil can be used in a hyd trans or implement hyd tank. But as CMark implies, “Do ya feel lucky punk?” The difference between 10 w and 20 w mono grade oils would be very little when the machine is operated at Australian temperatures, from 0 C to 40C. One certainly wouldn’t want to substitute tranny oil with something like 50 W oil or gear oil!! Pooompphsqeeellllll! There go the relief valves! So I suppose I’ve taken your replies and used my experience as a former truck mechanic and oil refinery operator and answered my own question – partly. But this is an old machine, circa 1983, when oils weren’t what they are now. Oils these days have tonnes of additives and are aimed at reducing emissions that occur when oil burns. Back in 1983 that wasn’t an issue. Some additives are even bad for old engines and shouldn’t be used as they can lead to deposition on bearing surfaces. Finally, I suppose what I’m now looking for is someone that has used BP Vanellus M20 in a tranny OR implement hyd tank and suffered no ill effects?? Anyone? Thanks guys for being the top Heavy Equipment Forum. There’s a lot of knowledge in here. AG
??? You asked for advise, you got it and don't like it so your asking for someone to say what you want to hear. Oil is cheap in respect to a closed loop circuit failure, if you want to gamble I would you it in the hydraulic tank, not the trans. A 400 dollar pump cartrage is better then the trans and two drive motors.
Steady on mate! I'm saying that the comments on here have led me to do some further searching and maybe some deeper thinking. The comments have all been well received by me and there's no disrespect to any of them. They were all valuable. All I'm asking now is whether is anyone has put Vanellus M20 into a Cat hydrostatic tranny? But at the end of the day - into the implement tank it will go when and if required. Thanks, AG
Hey AG. I didn't mean to come across all preachy about your lucky strike oil and if I did, I apologise. The question was about a 943 transmission and that was how I answered. To clarify, and as OW suggested, I would have no problem putting it in for example your 943 implement tank, an older model excavator or backhoe hydraulic system, tipper truck PTO tank, farm tractor hydraulics, the headstock of your lathe or anything like that. Just if you're dealing with a big dollar, high pressure, high flow system, (and no matter how ratty your tractor looks from the outside, that is what you have making it all work) I'd personally go for the best that money can buy.
Cmark, It wasn't you who was winding me up. It was yer mate "overworked" that was getting all critical. No probs with you whatsoever. All I was trying to say in my later post was that the comment in here prompted me to look further and have a think. You are right. My experience on my "ratty old tractor" ( and it is ratty 'cos it's been neglected for years) has been that the tranny is complex, requires some study to understand and can be hellish expensive if it goes wrong. Remember last year when I was on here - I had quotes from $40,000.00 to $120,000.00 to fix it. I fixed myself for 270 bucks - but it was luck and a lot of reading and not skill there!! Yep, the implement tank is where it will end up. How's the weather in Queensland? Damn freezing here in Perth. AG
Funny you should ask because recently it's been the depths of winter and I've had to wear long pants a t-shirt under my work shirt until 8-o-clock in the fore-noon. Yesterday morning and it was like someone flicked a switch. A bearable 12degC at 5.30 am rising to low 20s at midday. Rain forecast for Sunday though.
We were pushing out at Redcastle, east of Leonora just a cuppla weeks ago and the diesel "went all funny" in the Nissan truck. It musta been a bad load of "Singapore Off spec fuel" as it went all waxy,,,,,,,,,,,,but it was minus 4 overnight!
Are you talking ºC? That's about 24º-25ºF! That must be some real nasty fuel. Would not expect to see waxy fuel untill it got down to the teens F around here. And if it's proper "winter mix" not till it gets to the singles F.
My apologies if I seemed on the trigger, too many year of hearing people whine because they have a big repair because they chose to use ten gallons of flea market juice, I feel the same as C'mark. Any closed loop system deserves the best oil you can get. Best of luck and keep warm. Overworked.