Does anybody know anything about using LPG as an air-conditioner refrigerant? I believe what we call LPG may be called propane in USA. I want to be able to re-gas my own air-conditioners, mainly on farm equipment, tractors etc. Here in Australia you have to have a licence to buy and use R134a, and I don't want to go to the expense of getting the licence to only use it a couple of times a year. I was looking at using OS12, because I believe you can buy it without a licence. I would be happy to buy OS12, but someone suggested that LPG works well, so I thought I would look into it as an even cheaper option. I realise that OS12 is a hydrocarbon based refrigerant, and therefore flammable. So if LPG worked just as well, using it should be of no higher risk. I don't consider the amount of gas in a tractors air-conditioner to be a major risk of fire or explosion. Unfortunately, the people who have told me that you can use LPG have never used it themselves and so can't give me any real advice about it. So does anybody use it? Are there any dis-advantages? Do the components such as the compressor last as long? Is the compressor oil compatible with it? Can you put it into a system designed for R134a without having to change anything? (other than making sure all the old refrigerant has been removed first) Or, if LPG is not a good idea, what does everybody think of OS12? Can anybody confirm that you can buy OS12 without a refrigerant licence in Australia?
I can't answer you exactly because we have different issues here, r134a is cheap and easy, it works in old r12 systems, more or less, r12 is expensive. Propane's pressure is very close to r22, but r22 is still relatively easy to get also, so I haven't yet tried propane. Propane has roughly double the pressure of r134a so that could be a higher risk of leakage. I've heard it works fine, but can't verify that. If it was me, I'd look into the os12, before trying bulk LPG (which here is impure propane).
Old refrigerators and freezers were designed to us LPG specifically but I don't know what differences if any there are between the systems Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
When R12 first became heavily regulated, NAPA sold propane in 12 oz. refrigerant cans, they claimed it worked better than R12 with no system modifications. I had a refrigerant license, so I never tried it. My do-it-yourselfer friends liked it.
There you go. The increased pressure would translate into increased capacity so it would "work better". You might look into 16 ounce cylinders to see if that is a purer propane than LPG. But as long as there's no water or non condensables than the LPG will be as good. Also, the old fridges that burned propane used an ammonia absorption cycle, I think that's what 1466 is talking about.
Yair . . . Plant Fitter . A bit of discussion here . . . . http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/124577-lpg-refrigerant.html Cheers.
there is 1 big issue that ALL of you guys are overlooking!!!! PROPANE (LPG) IS VERY FLAMMABLE!!!!! if you need to recharge your system it DOES have a leak!!! so there is a very good chance you could come back bald headed (if you are lucky) if not even worse.. 134a is cheap compared to your life!!!!
Propane is only dangerous under certain conditions and I don't think those conditions can be met in an A/C system. If it were to leak it would disperse pretty easily out the bottom of the vehicle. Under just the right circumstances you might see a small flame at the point of the leak, just like using a propane torch, you are making use of a controlled leak. The big explosions you hear of related to propane are due to it reaching the point of boiling in a restricted container. Even if the vehicle were to catch fire for another reason, I'm pretty certain one of the A/C hoses would burn off and release the gas before it reached the critical temperature. It might fuel the fire for a moment or two but there wouldn't be an explosion.
Would anyone have anymore information on buying and using lpg for refrigerant here in the states? All of the info I can find on the interweb is for Europe and Australia Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
I believe the main safety concern with propane is if you get a leak in the evaporator and it fills the inside of the vehicle with gas.
We used to see it alot up here as r12 became out dated, people would vacation down south and would have their a/c serviced and they would be treated to the cheap propane, makes a mess of reclaimers and recycling machines.
that's what I was talking bout. there was a incident here locally last summer where a minivan blew out all the windows cause propane filled up the vehicle & the driver tried to light up a cigarette!!!! I don't worry bout it outside the vehicle (unless im next to you on the road when it happens) But hey, its a way of weeding out the stupid ones!!!!!!
It may not be the safest choice, but it does work and well. My father put it in our Allis Chalmers with an aftermarket cab and AC unit on it and it worked well until the compressor came apart (unrelated). As R134 is easy to get here and converting from R12 to it is easy, no reason to try it again, but if not readily available, propane can certainly work as a replacement.
Was this due to propane in the A/C system or a leaking tank within the vehicle? I still question whether there can be enough propane in the A/C system to produce an explosive condition within a vehicle.
Anyone ever been in an enclosed area when Refrigerant is released ? Propane in that same environment would be a treat !
I had the "pleasure" of being in a computer room when Argon was released, man than is not fun
it took investigators A WHILE to figure out what happened!!! yes it was in the ac system, there is 8.66Cu.Ft of propane vapor in 1# of propane.... the ignition temp of propane is 920-1120 degrees F!!!! you also have to remember that propane is heavier than air & tends to collect in the low areas... I have been in the propane industry for 30+ years, yes it will work for a refrigerant (it works very well in fact) it is just inherent dangerous to use it as such!!! SO DONT DO IT also for another don't do this but it works is to turn a cylinder upsidedown & blow liquid propane on a hot beer, it will make it froze in bout 5 seconds. (propane boils at -44 degrees F) not its intended use at all but its been done before im sure
I can't even fathom how this is an option! I seems to me you would just be sitting on a bomb. Literally. My shop teacher always said,"It only takes a few pennies more to do it right the first time." My thing is are you willing to live with the consequences if it goes wrong? I have enough safety risk in my life, I'm not inviting more.
I have used a product called Dura-Cool and it is propane based. It works a lot better than R134A, but yes it is flammable, but I haven't burned my vehicle up with in the last 3 years of using it!!!
Is propane in the AC system more dangerous than LPG or CNG powered vehicles?
LP or CNG, or gasoline, are kept out of the cab. That's the big difference. I have seen where CNG is common, when a CNG vehicle starts hissing, and it HISSES, they clear the area real quick.
Hydrocarbon refrigerants (R12, R22 substitutes) are practical, and are not dangerous. Unfortunately they are illegal for automotive use in the USA. A engineer named George Goble designed and tried to sell such things when chlorofluorocarbons (old Freon) were banned. They were cheep and safe for old automotive systems. The AC industry, and R-134a producer, and the EPA did not like that development. So you are not 'allowed' to use a 60/40 (weight) propane/isobutane mixture as a substitute for R-12