CAT0299DLGTC00836 My valve cover gasket is leaking bad. I have the parts (two gaskets and four grommets). The manual makes it look easy. Are their any tricks or special things I need to look for?
If you are replacing both the top cover gasket and the base gasket make sure that everything is nice & clean then take care to snug the bolts up a little at a time starting from the centre of the cover and working towards both ends in a criss-cross pattern (see the instructions for installing the cylinder head for an illustration). The torque values are not very high, so don't overtighten them.
Thanks. How hard is it to get to? The manual says to just tilt back the radiator.
The gasket rubber or Viton type material? or actual fibrous gasket?
Rubberish gasket. In my pdf version of the manual there are two different instructions with the same SMCS # (1107-010). One has a name i06552041 and the other is i06619028. On step 5 of one the instructions is says to remove hose (6), but there is no picture of where hose 6 is. The other one says on step 3 to remove tube assembly (4). I have no idea how to get to it.
Thanks, NO Sealants, Really CLEAN Surfaces.
I just talked to a CAT mechanic. He laughed and said it is very difficult and hadn't worked on replacing one in years. He had to refer to the same manual I am looking at. There is nothing easy about removing the tube assembly. You cannot get to it. I keep removing stuff just so I can see the bolts. I can see one of them. I have about 2 inches of room to move a ratchet or wrench. It won't budge. I sprayed it with PB Blaster and left. Has anyone actually done this job recently on a 299?
Update: This morning I went to work on it with a fresh mind frame. It became abundantly clear more stuff had to be removed. The battery came out. The air filter box and assorted hoses and sensors came out. Some black box with tubes going to the block came out. Now I have a little more room. I talked to another CAT mechanic this morning and he has not replaced one either. He suggested taking the cooling package out. That was going to be my next step. I can't believe someone at CAT actually wrote the manual for this and someone approved it. Here is a picture of the two bolts on the tube assembly I am trying to remove. You can sort of see the right bolt circled in blue. The left blue circle is where the other bolt is. It is behind that black hose. (I might as well document this for the next sucker that has to replace one).
I got the tube assembly unbolted. I used a 1/2 impact gun with an extension. I couldn't remove the tube, but I was able to wrangle it out of the way.
Next I followed the manual which said to remove the upper valve cover and then remove the nuts holding the wires. I did that but they are zip tied as well. I figured it would be easier to remove them with the bottom cover removed. I started to do that and got rained on and quit.
I don't know looks easy to me. Just let Jeffrey do it! Problem solved at least at my end! I think that you now know the first part they put on the assembly line at the factory, hang that tube with three bolts up and build the machine around it. I think I would take some extra time to write things down in the order you remove them to help with the reassembly.
Yeah. I'm taking lot's of pictures. I'm super worried about one thing though. When I bought this machine, the delivery was delayed because he was putting a valve cover gasket on it. Well he obviously didn't do a good job, and no way in hell did he remove that tube. Which means he didn't clean it up and just slid the gasket under the cover and bolted it back together. What worries me is one of the lower valve cover bolts slipped off my socket twice. If it is stripped, I am screwed.
That last bolt won't come out. Idiot must have used a 1/2 breaker bar to put it on. It makes sense because it is on the right side and it is leaking from the left side. I'll soak it over night with PB and try again in the morning. Now I'm gonna go drink a home brew.
The head is stripped and I can't get it out. Of course it is in the hardest place to get to. Not sure what to do now.
Maybe try reinstalling all the other bolts and tightening them to spec. Right now you are in a position where the one bolt that you really want to remove is taking all the load. If you can get at least some load off that bolt then it may be easier to turn it. You may have to consider using either a smaller socket and beat it on to the bolt head, or if that fails maybe even something like a sharp small chisel to nick the bolt head on one side then carefully tap it loose, or even weld a nut on top of the existing bolt head. The bolt is going to be scrap either way but at least it ought to come out.
If the socket that slipped was a metric try to see if an inch size will work or the other way around. If you are using a 12 point socket find a 6 point one and that also might help. Or try a good smack on the head straight down to break it loose. Are these the bolts that hold the lower potion of the valve cover to the head? If so According to SIS there should only be 5 to 8 lb/ft of torque on them. But being shoulder bolts they will have heads that some idiot might have thought needed much more torque!
Good advice. I have 3 other bolts hooked up. I heated it up a few times and then pounded a bolt extractor on it. After a few attempts of that and heat, I put a 1/2 impact gun on it. It was so tight, it actually stopped the gun. But it came out about 1/16". I sprayed PB under and left. At least it hasn't broke.
With that in mind when you next put tooling on it I suggest don't try to loosen it. See if it will tighten a hair, then start to work it back and forwards. The last thing you want to do is break it, which is why I'd be using a bar or a ratchet rather than an impact gun. At least that way you can feel how much weight you are putting on the wrench, with an impact gun you can't tell. I hope someone hasn't used an inch bolt where there should be a metric one or vice versa.
My exact plan
Got it out. No way a new valve cover gasket was installed last May before I bought it. Maybe the upper, but this bolt has not been removed before.
Congratulations on getting it out iin one piece. What they referred to as the "valve cover gasket" may have been only to top one. Correctly speaking the top one is the cover, the bottom one that you have just removed is the valve mechanism base. It might be an idea to run a plug tap down all those threaded holes before you reinstall the bolts to make sure there are no hickeys in the threads anywhere, although TBH it looks from the photo as though it could have been corrosion on the shank holding it rather than the threads. Refer back to post #2 for the suggested hardware tightening procedure.
Technically you are correct. However he told me it had an oil leak at the valve cover and had to replace the gasket. Maybe both were leaking, but within two days of owning it, I noticed the big leak at the bottom. Remember, this is the same guy who told me the machine had 1,800 hours on it when it really had over 4,000.
I got the assembly out but not without issue. It was a struggle getting it out. During the process I broke the electrical connection at the rear. I guess I run to CAT tomorrow to get a new one.
For the next person that is insane enough to do this project: I disconnected the radiator hose where it connects with the thermostat. Have a bucket handy--I think about two gallons came out. It makes it easier. I wish I would have done it in the beginning.
Ewwww. Not sure if you can buy that seperately. Might end up having to replace the injector unfortunately.
Great
You are right. Went to CAT today. Talked with a mechanic. He said he's seen it plenty of times. He actually did it once as well. Just another big chunk of change. After I replace the injector they have to come out and program it to the ECM. He also said they have to replace the high pressure fuel lines when they do the valve job--some sort of liability thing. So I got new fuel lines as well...
Yes unfortunately with the new high pressure common rail fuel systems the lines are one time use. The flare on the lines actually deforms to mate the fitting perfectly. Once you remove the line it won't crush again and there's a chance it could have a leak. A leak at several thousand PSI can penetrate the skin and cause a huge amount of tissues damage including the need to amputate!!!!! Yes you will need them to change the trim code in the ECM for the new injector. Write the new trim code down before you install it or you'll have to open it back up again to find it!
Is the trim code on the injector?
Yep it should be on there somewhere. Usually on top. Its a long string of letters and numbers.
here is what you need to record
Thanks
Nothing like a simple little valve cover replacement…uuuuggghhhh....Stick with it, seems like you’re almost there…
Don't I wish. I was wiping it down on the bench and this happened. I think CAT wants like $1,600 for a new lower valve cover. I am breaking the TIG welder out.
Where the hell did that come from?? You must have some strong "wiping hands" if you wiped that piece right off the valve cover!
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The area is still sealed and you could cause more damage from warping with the tig.
I thought the same thing but changed my mind. I'm either fixing it or buying a new one. I am not doing this job again.
It was the area where the bolt was frozen.
As Mark pointed out the piece that came off is not critical to the oil sealing capability of the cover. Rather than subject the cover to the heat of a TIG welder might another alternative be to build up the area using epoxy and then file/sand/dremel it back down to the original profile of the cover.?
Thanks for the good advice. I went with the spool gun instead. No warping and it makes me feel better. The old piece was not welded back in. It is all new metal. The injector should be here tomorrow so I made try putting it back together.
I'm glad it worked out for you. Just a thought, why don't you give that hole a small dose of dremel to maybe open up the clearance between the cover and the bolt just a hair.? It would be a shame if the new bolt seized in the same way as the old one.
Not directly familiar with that valve cover and bolt design, but I would be tempted to apply a coat of some kind of anti-seize to the outside of the bolts where they go through the cover. I'm thinking that it might make it easier on the next guy to be in there. I always tried to make it easy on the next guy because working at the same quarry for 45 years that next guy was often me!
I was going to ask you guys if anti-seize was a good idea. I think it is a good idea.
I'll check the tolerance again to see where I am.
Just make sure you only get the anti-seize on the shank of the bolt and not on the threads. Otherwise you could end up overtightening the bolt because the installation procedure does not call for anti-seize.
Agree.
The injector came to day. I got it installed without issue. Installed new grommets on the lower valve cover and got them both shiny and clean and ready install.
The rest of the day went to pot. I made the mistake of owning a Pittsburg/Harbor Freight torque wrench. It is worthless. I had it set for 8 lb/in. It snapped the bolt off into the head. The wrench is in the trash. I got the bolt out and the threads are fine. Then I went to put the lower bolts back in and one of them snapped off into the head while I was hand tightening it. This was a brand new bolt from CAT. The steel on it is not of the caliber of the old bolts. I got it out within an hour, but what a pain. I got the rest of the bolts (sans one) installed. This 299D is cursed.
You say you had it set to 8 in/lbs? I believe the spec's say 5 to 8 foot pounds. A #6 machine screw should handle 8 in/Lbs! Next question what is the range of this torque wrench? If you just mistyped and had it set at 8 ft/lbs and it's range was say 5 to 80 foot pounds I could see that the clicking of the wrench might be so faint as to not be noticed. Not trying in any way to defend the quality or accuracy of a Harbor Freight torque wrench but have heard of many who owned them without major problems, but who knows if the kids they had working that day in the factory knew what they were doing!
I meant 8 lb/ft. Spec calls for 61-99 lb/ in. The wrench is locked. It doesn't click at any setting.
I got the valve covers and tube installed. The tube is a stroke maker. Now I need to clean the engine bay of the caked on oil and put the rest of the parts on.
Got everything back together and the cursed POS runs and doesn't leak oil. Trying to get CAT out next week to program the injector.
The Trim Code for the replaced injector should be programmed at the earliest opportunity, but don't break your neck getting it done ASAP. Maybe wait until you have to get them out for something else..? All the Trim Code does is to give you the last 1/10th of 1% of performance. The engine will run just fine for now even with the Trim Code from the former injector in the ECM.
Cool. Thanks.
That didn't last long. It did this last year and CAT had to come out with the computer. I think it is time to give this machine away and move on.
Are you using this machine for personal use or to generate income? It kind of seems like either way it might not be worth the issues it's causing you.
Personal.
OUCH........
CAT came out and it won't do a regen. That means the DPF filter is shot. I'll post up that process in another thread. It never ends...
How many hours do you have on the clock? A lot of that stuff is generated on time. Most people I know get exchange units instead of having theirs cleaned. Does you machine do a lot of idle time?
On Cat machines its normally just a service counter and will flash a reminder that the DPF service is due. It won't prohibit regeneration. What is leading you to say the DPF is no good? There is a list of criteria/conditions that need to be met before a regen will start. Some active faults will prevent a regen as well. Only way I can think of that the machine will prohibit regen with the DPF truely being no good is if you run the soot level up to 140% plus (I think) 10 or 15 minutes. To reach that stage you'd have to have knowingly overrode the warnings and put up with annoying beeps and having a derated engine for a while.
The "clock" reads about 1,850 hours. The engine (serial numbers match) ecm says over 4,000 hours. So in short the machine has over 4,000 hours. I don't know the history of the machine. I have only put about 40 hours on it in the year I have had it. I run it wide open when it runs. What do you mean by exchange unit? The whole dpf assembly or just the filter?
The machine warning was at the highest threat level before derating. I ignored the warning until it said basically pull over and have the service tool hooked up to do a manual regen. The soot readout was over 100%--I think around 115%. The tech tried his hardest to get it to regen but it wouldn't. He said it was toast-I think he said they do this at about 4,000 hours.
Its been a while so I could be wrong but at 115% I believe the dealer would have to get Caterpillar involved. Either with passwords or something else. I no longer have access to anything Caterpillar so I can't confirm unfortunately. Once it hits I believe 140% the DPF needs to be replaced, regardless of hours on it.
It could have been more. I trust this CAT tech. He had the CAT regen "expert" on the phone and the consensus was it is toast.
If the DPF has already passed its service interval the first thing they'll recommend is replacing the DPF since its a maintenance item. If its never been cleaned or replaced in the (assumed) 4,000 hours of operation, its likely due. Again I can't remember off hand what the recommend interval on the C3.8 is but its probably around 3,000 hours.
The original hours was a range of 4 to 5 thousand and the ash had to be cleaned out of the DPF. Most dealers don't have the machine to do that. It's one of things I do for my clients now is review the hours and recommend the DPF be cleaned prior to any sale going down. Your component is likely filled with ash and now the brain says you have to spend some more money. An exchange unit is one that is already cleaned. You give them yours and some money and they give you the "exchange" unit to install on your machine. You still have to have someone out to reset the brain before you can go back to work.
There is a company within an hours drive that cleans the filter--they have 4 levels of cleaning they do. They also sell new filters. Everything I have heard and read says removing the dpf is a huge PITA. The CAT tech says it is a shop job--the mobile techs don't do it. I also heard you can buy a whole new dpf assembly. Not sure which route is the best.
"Criteria not met"...I'd like to see the codes before condemning the DPF. Not familiar with that engine, but, a skewed reading from an egt sensor, plugged differential pressure sensor tube, and/ or a faulty ARD injector can all cause a failure to meet conditions.
I would agree about checking codes before just pulling the DPF. If there is anything else wrong it should be cleared first. But if the dealer wrench was there and plugged into the system, I would have to assume that those items were checked as described above. This is also one of the small machines that use passive regeneration which means an operator doesn't have to do anything about monitoring if and when regeneration is needed. With that in mind and considering the time frame on the hour meter, it is logical to think that the DPF is full of ash. I don't know about about having to have the machine at the Cat shop and knowing what I know about Cat dealers, I would hesitate about putting any machines in one of those black holes that suck up customer money. When I started in the business engine, transmission and hydraulic system repairs and rebuilds were commonly done in the field. In the last fifteen or so years, it seems that nothing can be done in the field. In my humble opinion and experience, dealer shops keep customer eyes and job management out of the view of their customers. You only get to see the bill with no say in the process.
I'm doing the job myself. I just need to learn what I need to do.
I've never done a 299 DPF, tons of 289 DPFs. Chances are you'll be pulling the engine as the DPF is bolted onto a bracket above the flywheel housing. Its not a horrible job pulling the engine but its not pleasant either.
One thing that caught me out at first is that once any faults inhibiting regen are repaired, it won't respond to a manual regen straight away. It will just sit there idling with no indication in ET of what's going on and "Regen Inhibited" showing, then after several minutes it will suddenly clear the flag and go into regen. Did the mechanic clear the logged faults? What faults other than the E1239 do you have now?
I remember the tech trying that. It didn't work and I believe that is when he made the call to the dpf specialist. He spent over an hour trying. I'm not sure what codes are in there now.
Won't regen.
Here is a good view of the dpf. The manual says to remove four bolts underneath and the intake and exhaust pipes. I can see it will be difficult to get to the underneath bolts.
At the end of the grey pipe is an access panel that I believe will give me a shot at the underneath bolts. There is a bunch of stuff to remove first. Has anyone done this on a 299?
This is where Cat's literature kinda sucks. If you're looking specifically at the C3.8 manual, it will either state at the start "Start by - Remove Engine" or it assumes the engine is out on the floor. If you look up the procedure specific to the machine, it will most likely state to remove the engine. I have not done a 299 DPF but on the smaller machines, yes it is possible to remove all those hydraulic lines and valves and access the DPF that way. Time-wise, on the smaller machines its about the same using either method.
Yeah, the manual is just short of useless. Mine doesn't mention anything about removing the engine. It has 4 steps. Remove multiple sensors, remove underneath bolts, remove intake and exhaust bolts, lift it out. That's it. You'll be done in an hour and drinking a beer.
Ask the tech at the dealer how many chargeable labour hours are billed for the R&I of the DPF in the Standard Jobs..? That would give you a good idea if the "dealer plan" covers R&I of the engine or if the job contemplates the PDF being removed with the engine in position. This is irrespective to what the service manual states is the procedure to R&I the DPF. EDIT: Having checked the Serivce Manual, the first thing it says is "Start By: - remove the engine"....... Now that does not mean it's the only way the job can be done.
I just got off the phone with a tech. He said you don't have to remove the engine. He has replaced a few but the engine was out because of some other problem. So this really doesn't help much. It seems this is new territory because the machines are relatively new.
What version of the manual do you have?
This is my manual: Diesel Particulate Filter - Remove and Install SMCS - 108F-010; 108F Removal Procedure Wear goggles, gloves, protective clothing, and a National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) approved P95 or N95 halfface respirator when handling a used Diesel Particulate Filter or Catalytic Converter Muffler. Failure to do so could result in personal injury. The muffler, catalytic converter/muffler, and diesel particulate filter will become extremely hot during engine operation. A hot muffler, catalytic converter/muffler and diesel particulate filter can cause serious burns. Allow adequate cooling time before working on or near the muffler, catalytic converter/muffler and diesel particulate filter. Media Search - UENR2328 - 299D and 299D XHP Compact Track Loaders, 297D and 2... Page 1 of 4 NOTICE Do not strike any part of the assembly of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). Do not allow any object to contact the internal element of the DPF. If the internal element of the DPF becomes damaged, the assembly must be replaced. 1. Disconnect harness assembly (1) and harness assemblies (2) . Remove the connecting hardware. Remove bolts (3) .
I've got the latest update of UENR2328 (Version 03). Maybe the one you have is an earlier version. There is also another document, UENR0129, that covers the DPF R&I on a multitude of similar models including yours and it says the same thing. Both are attached.
I recently did an ash reset for a customer who had his DPF cleaned. It was a 299D, GTC prefix. I didn't see him R&I the DPF, but I know he didn't remove the engine to do it. I would still be interested to know if the logged codes were deleted and to see if any are logged now.
I took this picture yesterday when I moved it into the shop. None of these matter. I'll scroll down and see what else is there.
I removed the cooling system this morning. I don't want to get too greedy, but I can feel those lower bolts and I think I can get a socket on them.
Yours definitely has more information than mine.
Did you buy a paper manual via eBay or somewhere similar..?
Pdf. Ebay
Was it from an outfit called Service Manual Pro by any chance..? If it was, get back to them and tell them what they shipped you was not the latest version, because the latest update to UENR2328 was 2014. They are a reputable suppliuer and should step up to the plate. If it was from somewhere else, you've been had. Sorry.
Yes, please do.
Those are event codes, logged, presumably? Are any active? Are there any fault codes active or logged?
I believe the active codes were cleared by the CAT tech. I can't get to it right now to check because I have hoses and wires hanging everywhere.
Active Codes cannot be cleared by virtue of the fact that they are active. Only non-active (Logged) Codes can be cleated. The Event E361 in the list in your photo is for high engine coolant temperature. I wonder if that has something to do with it.?
What I found in twelve years of appraising machines for the local Cat dealer was that mechanics almost never cleared any codes after they fixed a machine. It was so bad that I had to check used machines being offered for sale after service, repairs, cleaning and grease for codes and clear them before they went out in the used equipment display yard. It was a help once the manufacturers started showing the hours when the occurrences happened as a way to find out if the logged codes were germane or not.
I pretty much got the access panel off. I do not recommend doing this. It was painful. I chose this route because my engine lift is three hours away.
Miserable sob is out.
Nige, Do you have an up to date manual that tells me what to do next?
Does this help..? I know there are some members on here who have experience of DPF cleaning, especially in respect of what materials, fluids, etc, etc must NOT go near it under any circumstances once it is disassembled . Hopefully they will chime in and help.
I took it to a national chain that specializes in cleaning them. CAT wants $1,700 for a reman (a cleaned filter) and $3,200 for a new one. It should be done Friday. I asked them to take before and after pictures. It will cost around $500.
That is the same filter that a lot of kubota engines have and perkins. curious to what they are asking for one.
Was it clogged? I pulled a 5000 hour DPF because the Caterpillar computer in my 336E demanded it. Very little discoloration, and I could blow air through it easily. The before and after numbers for flow were darned near the same.
I think this is a Kubota engine--at least that is what the Canadian firm I was talking to about programing a dpf delete was saying. I'm curious as well.
I didn't take it apart to check. I sure as hell hope it is clogged.
Yes. Thanks.
Got the DPF unit back to day. Here is a before picture:
Here is the after:
Everything is put together and it runs. Waiting for CAT to come out and do an ash reset.