Is there a thread on this HEF or HTF dedicated to volumetric mixer trucks and operating a business with them? Someone point me in the right direction or let’s post comments here. Thanks,,,,,,,TIO
I remember quite a few short threads on here where they have been mentioned.... and some of the guys on here thinking about getting them... randy88, pete379,etc... We use them a lot but haven't bought one.. thought about it though. The company around here seems to make decent money with them, what specific did you want to know?
Same here thinking about getting one as a career change. Just looking for as much info on equipment and operations as possible. This HEF is usually a great place to find info....TIO
One thing I remember on a few jobs where we needed just a small amount of crete was more and more certain jobs are required to meet a certain spec, so you can't hand mix or use volumetric mixers.... and when you only need less than a half a yard at most it really screws things... had a job with a single thrust block on a 6" ductile line.... inspector said" nope... gotta have a slip from the local readymix plant!' and we didn't have anything else nearby to pour... I mean that's insane.... So in the future (around here at least)your main customers will probably be small homeowner projects without permits/inspections...
I was thinking “spec” concrete might be an issue. I get to do a ride along with an out of my area volumetric concrete company (5 trucks) next week. I’ll be sure to ask that question. Although I do know for a fact they poor “fast set” concrete on interstate freeway projects so some engineers are excepting it. TIO
I did a project years ago that involved one of those rigs. The owner was pouring the slots on I90 when they milled the slabs even and then put locking bars between the slabs to hold them together. I seem to remember another company with one doing the same on I5 between Mt. Vernon and Bellingham. There was another company down toward Graham that built their own trucks and mixers. That gentleman had all the work he could handle at the time. This was back in the 2005 time frame.
yeah, I know who you're talking about JohnC, we used to use him a lot... he actually bought three new rigs from back east somewhere about 7 years ago but those are usually in need of some tlc anymore.
Can you guys PM this guys name or a website link so I can research and or call him??TIO
I think this is his web site. http://www.cascademobilemix.com Good Luck
I don't know much about the business but this company started up in my area not to long ago and seems to be doing well, I see their truck(s) running all over the Birmingham area. https://www.owensonsite.com One can only assume their is some money in the operation as these guys have new KW's and mixers. I'd like to hear more from someone who is in the business
Thanks guys this is all really helpful. I too would like to hear from someone actually in the business....TIO
That is a good lookin KW on there website....TIO
I’m on Long Island NY and a handful of masonary yards have volumetric mixers. The price structure is usually like this 250 mobilization charge includes 1st yard, 2,3,4 yard are 125 per yard and then 100 every yard after that. We have some many redi-mix companies around here that it’s easier and cheaper to to get a short load delivered if you need 2-3 yards for a small project
I like this pricing structure it’s easy and simple. I talked to a company about a hundred miles from me and they used a price structure similar to this and they said what happens is people say when your in the area or they get cornered at one job site and the another contractor shows up wanting a bit of mud but doesn’t want to pay the move charge. I hope you understand what I’m trying to say here. Anyways I developed a spreadsheet for 3 different “zones” which each represent a 15 mile radius from my plants. These are graduated from .5 yard at about the $250 up to anything over 7 yards is $120-ish. Basically it’s the mobe charge divided by the number of yards delivered. But if a customer wants 2 yards next door they pay the same amount for those first 2 yards as his neighbor. I will share my pricing charts when they get converted from spreadsheets to PDFs. So now I will share my progress in starting things up. I purchased 2 new 270 bbl tilt up portable silos. A low hour truck with a Pro All body on it, waiting for delivery. A well used cat 928g wheel loader to load aggregate and sand. Next week I will get a 40 foot container to put my 500 gallon water resivior tank in, and bulk admix tanks in. I ordered pumps to pump from the tank to the truck. I installed a new meter base for 100 amp power and started digging some trench to run water and conduit to the container. I have a lot of pieces to put together over the next couple of weeks.....TIO
A shout out here to Eric at Montana Tank Works. He is a very good knowledgeable salesman that I would recommend to everyone looking for a silo or whatever else they make. He was extremely patient with all of my dumb questions! I think there product is top notch too From what I have compared on paper since I have never purchased or operated anything like this before...TIO
Sounds like you are well on your way TIO! Was it difficult sourcing cement? I didn't give the volumetric business much thought until I started seeing the company in my area all over the metro area. Looking at it from a contractors standpoint if I need to pour 4 inverts in 4 48" storm manholes, I can pay $250 to have the concrete delivered or mix on site or pay a 3 man crew to mix from bags or pay $400 for a short load of mud from the redi-mix plant. It will take a 3 man crew 1/2 day to mix bag concrete and pour 4 inverts or order a yard, pour it out and finish in an hour. Money saved on my part. I think I'm going to give our local company a call.
How does the truck meter in the admixes? Do they use graduated vials or Badger type meters? I know that there are some really good powdered prepackaged admixes on the market now, even super-p and mid-range water reducer.
Cm1995, the cement was easy enough to source. I have at least 3 manufacturers within 100 miles of me. I have yet to get any delivered because my silos are not erected but I got my account set up and product quoted delivered. They say they can have it delivered in a couple days after ordering. Since I will get a load only once or twice per month this type of scheduling is easy. Cement powder is expensive and then to pay a truck to haul it 200 mile round trip is expensive also. Repower guy, the admixes are liquid in a volumetric truck. They are injected at the bottom of the mix auger using transfer pumps and controlled with inline flow meters. Many companies manufacture admixes specifically for volumetric trucks. The timing of reaction is completely different in a volumetric truck than it is in a barrel truck.........TCO
Ahh, I gotcha, I was thinking of the style I’ve seen in pictures with a yard or so drum that is fed from a agg hopper with a small conveyor line. The admixtures don’t have much time to mix in an auger. You probably won’t need a retarder but maybe an accelerator and a air entrainor. I’d like to see one in action some day.
I will have air entrainer and water reducer separately to start with. They do combine them into one admix but I will run them separate. I’m not sure exactly how many admix systems I have on my truck but I think I have 3 tanks separated into 2 systems. It can have up to 5 admix systems if I recall the specs correctly......TCO
These are my silos prior to shipping....TCO
I'm glad your sharing your startup experience on HEF and also as the years progress I hope you keep us up to date on how things are going. Can I ask what concrete from mixer trucks cost in your area so we can compare?
Randy88 3000 psi 3/4 aggregate no extras is $135 yd within 15 miles of a plant. This is full truckload rate. 3-7 yards is more , 3 yard minimum. So if you want 1 yard I could charge $405, I will actually charge $192 flat for that yard including air entrainment and water reducer.....TCO
Be interesting to see how your setup works, we have placed a lot with Jim's trucks and no matter how much I tell em' to dry it up it always has way too much water in it... seems to bleed for an hour or more so if you pour anytime after 11:30 you're there til 5-6:00 for flatwork.
If I might make a suggestion, run a couple conduits up the side of the silo before you stand it up. Once you have it up you’ll want some area lights on it to light up the loading area. I would strongly encourage you to put Roto bindicators on the top also. At least a high level one to keep you from blowing the house off, no matter how much you try, your inventory will get off and blowing off the house makes a huge mess. Just trying to pass on what I deal with.
Repowerguy, Great suggestion, I got the factory installed high and low level indicators. Are you in concrete production? All suggestions are extremely needed and welcome. My strengths in this business in order are, 1) knowing how to repair and take care of the equipment 2) accounting and salesmanship 3) aggregate production and sourcing 4) truck and equipment operation 10) making and placing concrete Ronsii, I was going to put lights and cameras on the silo. I’ll take a look on how to install a conduit. I will probably just zip tie the wires to the cage around the ladder, conduit would be neater. Just to let you know how little I know about concrete placement, it just struck me why afternoons are easier to get a concrete truck than in the morning. So about the bleed water, I’m not a pro at this yet but I did not fail chemistry either, the last thing you want to put in concrete is water! The best way to make concrete stronger, flow better and cure when you want it is with admixes. ...TCO
Another one that agrees with my complaint at the beginning of this discussion. TIO, I wonder if you could work out some days when you are slow at first to make and place the product, then stay on the job as long as possible with the crew and help them work it so you can get their suggestions on how the product works out. It seems to always help to know what the other guy is going through to help him do his job better.
Birken Vogt, In the beginning I definitely will have time between loads to spend with the contractors. I have a couple contractors I already have a relationship with that Will get the most attention and the best pricing....TCO
TIO yeah I work for a ready mix co. My profile says mixer truck mechanic but it’s a lot more than that. I’m also a plant mechanic and also a electrician to boot. The high level should be connected to a alarm or a least a light visible to the bulk tanker. Turn the silo so the bag house opening is away from the usual weather. A high range( super p) water reducer will help with a overly wet concrete mix. It will still be a high slump, but the water cement ratio will still be low.
One of the reasons admixtures are used is that cement is expensive, years ago, they knew that water did weaken the mix but they compensated by using PLENTY of cement in a yard of concrete. They kept a good w/c ratio by just using extra cement. Lots of old bridges were built with just 4 things, gravel, sand, water and plenty of cement.
TIO, thanks for the price structure, If you haven't poured much concrete before today, go watch and listen now to those guys on jobs someone else is bringing the concrete to them, its far easier to watch and learn as a spectator than the person doing the delivery, also do a sit down with what will be your larger customers before delivering anything to them and ask questions as "what they expect" and "how they expect it". Most crews have their own set of standards and expectations that fit their needs and style of doing things. I'm not a fan of admixes personally, but many are, I like to pour concrete as dry as possible, many like it wet so it handles and works easier, it also depends on if they are doing flat work or vertical walls. I am kind of curious how your going to handle much larger jobs that will require multiple trucks back to back to keep the pour steady and uniform and was also wondering if you've thought about bringing the product to the truck verses taking the truck back to the yard each time to refill? Is there any tele belts or pumper trucks in your area and do you think you'll be feeding those much at all??
Randy, I believe the work these trucks are geared up towards are the 5yds and under sized. If you go much bigger, you’re into transit mix territory which if he has a silo he could do with the addition of a weigh hopper for the cement. If he wants to ever get into transit mix, a Decumulator style is a relatively small investment. A Decumulator can be made from the remnants of a accumulating style plant with a little ingenuity and fab work.
Randy88, RP is correct my bread and butter won’t be above 3 yds. However I do expect to get larger pours and from what I have seen is the customer has to plan for it which isn’t tough. I will mostly be working with smaller crews so at some point they will need time to catch up between loads. I will go after remote pour jobs that require aggregate delivered to sites then loaded into the truck there. This is the kind of work I enjoy the most. My Dads company has installed many Bulb T concrete bridges in national forests all over Washington and Oregon. These require footings to be poured at each end then set the pre cast concrete gurters on top of the footings. I always loved doing construction work in the national forests. As far as pumpers there are independent line and boom pumps in the area which I will need to become friendly with....TCO
One more step complete....TCO
That's some pretty country. Been enjoying watching this thread too. Great to see your plant going up. I've always thought the mix on site trucks would have their place- especially with long travel distances. The one downside on the one I was around (20 years ago), was it was difficult to unload/mix when you aren't setting real level. I think it makes a difference what kind of truck you have, the one I was around had the short auger first on the tail, then chutes. If it was setting real crooked, it was hard to get it to mix and unload properly. Sometimes it would want to kind of separate in the auger/ hopper, with the water going to one side. And you really can't give it a good shot to reach a far spot , or when your setting kind of crooked and it won't go down the chute. Where with a standard mixer truck you could just kind of wind it up and give it a good shot to unload if you needed to. I've always kicked around the concrete pumping game, they're in my town all the time, but they all come from the big town a hour away. But its a awfully expensive start up. Its kind of like cranes, in that you can't have just one. Different sizes, a backup etc. Never really thought about the dry site delivery trucks, but I'm rooting for you that it works. And just because its a pet peeve of mine- if one of my operators showed up with a winch spooled up like this after a job, we'd be unspooling it right then. If he shows up with it multiple times like that, he's probably going to end up running crane for someone else. Its really hard on the winch line cable, it pops and pulls itself constantly up and over the other wraps, and that's a great way to damage the cable. Everyone has a drum get loose on them once in a great while, mostly putting jib on and off, but it shouldn't be running like that all the time. Winch cable is too expensive.
I can’t believe you noticed that. So that’s where the project started yesterday morning. The crane had just been shipped back from the shop. When operator went to lower the block this happened. The shop guys had got one of the lines on the wrong side of a guide. So we got to remove the dead end of the cable and retread it. Then the operator spooled it out and back in before we started. There is a considerable disadvantage to the distance a volumetric truck can discharge from the end of truck. I too hope I have a happy ending to this venture. I will be paying very close attention to how deep the hole is that I’m digging if things don’t become successful rather quickly. When starting a business one thing that has to be in place are benchmarks so you “know when to hold em , know when to fold em”. I really am not nervous about losing a few bucks if it fails. I lost a few bucks trying a crusher rental (another thread on here) business over the last 5 years but wrapped it up before I couldn’t recover from it. NO risk NO reward. And yes the area I get to live and work in is beautiful and amazing, grateful for everyday that I get to enjoy it......TCO
If you offer a service that's needed, do a good job in what you do, have repeat customers that are needing your service and do it at a fair price and treat people the way you'd like to be treated, you'll succeed and that applies to any start up business.
You can't get away with anything around here, someone will notice. Probably the only other thing I was wondering, how come only one delivery truck? With the investment in plant, tanks, loader, and everything, I would guess that you would need at least 3-4 trucks to serve any kind of a pour. That is to say- if you were wanting to pour a basement wall job, or basement floor, big garage,etc. you don't have enough capacity to do the whole pour. You can't hardly wait for the one truck to go back to the plant and load and then return unless you were really close to the plant, and probably not even then. I bet you're looking at a hour turnaround most times- from stopping unloading, until your back with the next load, maybe longer on how far away, traffic, loading time at the plant etc. And that is just too long. You can't keep up with a pump truck, he needs to be pumping or he's in trouble. Same with a line pump. You can't really even leave a seam like that in flat or walls, its just too hard to deal with. If you had 3 trucks, one can be on the jobsite unloading, one on the way back to the plant, and one on the way there. Or they all head to the pour in the morning (setting doesn't bother them like a standard truck), then start round tripping to finish. With only one truck, your basically limited to under 7-10 yard pours (whatever your truck can haul), which eliminates almost all commercial, and a lot of the residential work. If they have the redimix plant doing the pour, they aren't going to have you bring the last load, they will just guess and order the last 3 yards from them. Which is the convenience of the volumetric truck- you don't have to guess. But I never liked joining concrete from different plants in the same flat or walls- the color will usually be different, and finish different, so I don't see them calling you for the last load. I understand its probably a cost thing, but I guess in the concrete pouring that I've done, very little would be able to be accomplished by someone that can essentially only service a 7 yard pour. Its nice to get customers that you always go pour for, whether it be a sidewalk, garage, or a patio. It's hard if they use someone else all the time, but only get you to bring it when its a little job. The flat work guys get to know the drivers and the dispatchers etc. and its a relationship thing. If you end up not getting those guys, and its only homeowners or weekenders that are your customer base, I think that's going to make it tough. I understand trying to fit in a niche, but I would think two-three extra trucks would totally open up what you would be able to do.
Crane operator, You are correct in the work flow and need for multiple trucks in most concrete pours. Volumetric is not designed to compete with redimix operations and I by no means have the financing to compete with the well established redimix plants in the area most of which are in at least their second generation of ownership. Volumetric is a niche market. It serves a few things very well. 1) short load jobs 2) remote pours 3) fast setting concrete. 4) other types of custom pours. I kind of see volumetric as the mini excavator of the concrete world. The loader and silo and plant set up are reasonably insignificant to the cost of the truck. Who knows where this business will grow to perhaps there will be more trucks in the future....TCO
TCO market to the local commercial electricians or whoever pours light pole bases in your market. How it works here is the electrician either subs it out to the one guy with an auger truck to put them in and he handles all of it or they dig the hole, set the rebar, ground ring, conduit and sono tube. Then after inspection, they pour it. It always seems to be a three ring circus between getting them ready, inspection and pouring. If there are 3-5 light pole bases on a typical McDonalds or other retail site, a 7 CY load is more than enough depending on the base spec. Just a thought. Another contractor to target is utility guys. We install underground fire mains and hydrants from time to time, there is always a kicker or two or more depending on the project. If there are one or two kickers on a small job we'll mix and pour from bags. If there are more or we have a couple of large ones we call the redimix plant. I'm paying around $450 for a minimum load because we are not a regular client. However it saves labor and time which equal dollars. There is a point where it's too expensive to mix it by hand. If I need 1.5 CY and can get it on the job for $100 less than a plant mix short load, I am on it like a dog on a bone.
Cm1995, That will be $258 for your 1.5 yards of the best 3000 psi concrete you have ever placed within 15 miles of either of my plants! Thanks for your business. That’s a customer base I haven’t thought of exactly. What I’m struggling with is when and how to market to them the most productively. One of my strategies is parking my loaded truck in contractor conspicuous locations like the donut shop . Just kidding. Like in front of the lumber yards, Home Depot, plumbing supply store, electrical supply stores. Probably like a pan handler with a sign. Maybe driving around after a pour to find in progress construction jobs to hand out cards. I really think if I do this I will be nearly fully booked in 2 months. From my research a full time driver delivers on average 12.5 yards per day. My goal is to be half this average by the time it the weather starts to slow construction this year.....TCO
You’ll need a pressure pot to test air entrainment periodically to keep it in spec and to prove to inspectors it’s a exterior spec concrete mix. You’ll need a slump cone also. Just another expense.
The place I saw them used extensively was on the freeways doing the slab tie ins on the edges both on I5 and I90. I know those projects are done but it never hurts to get your company name listed with the state and municipalities.
That's a good point John. Here in Birmingham there is a 20 mile or so stretch of I-65 that is concrete. ALDOT is constantly sawing and removing sections of pavement and re-pouring. All this work is done at night so the lanes are open the following morning. Depending on volume a mix on site truck could be the ticket. Hell the more I think about the business the more I might get into competing with our local company.
I located a air test pot kit just been so busy during business hours I haven’t had time to go get it. Maybe next week. I have been told the fast set is becoming extremely popular on the dot bridge repairs. The fastest set stuff can’t even be put in a barrel truck for risk of premature set up so it’s actually being developed just for volumetric. TCO
I found some new cones on eBay any other ideas where to pick one up? TCO
We buy ours from Forney, but they don’t get used a lot as the drivers in the fronts and the newer rears have a slump gauge in the cab. I wonder if your truck will have one or if it’s a option, if it is I would spring for it.
Ordered a new slump tester kit online somewhere. Found a complete used air test pot on Craigslist locally and bought it too. I’ve seen a lot of the bowling pin shaped air testers, not sure if I need one of these too? Truck should be delivered Tuesday or Wednesday. Sand and aggregate will be delivered into stockpile next week. So many little things to get together......TCO
I got my service truck sold. It was real good to me for almost 5 years. It was purchased by another owner operator so that’s nice too. For those of you that don’t know me from my former life I have a thread in “shop talk” called All in a days work (or two) and another under “crushers” called person tracked plant info, pictures and related info. Maybe someone smarter than me can link those on this page?....TCO
That is a beautiful truck. I hope the new owner attempts to keep it as nice looking as you did!
If you’re not using fly ash in the mix, the air entrainment should be stable and predictable for the JMF’s you have. A spot check once a week or so is not a bad idea for QAQC reasons and to have on file in case a issue may arise. If the auger is hyd operated a pressure gauge in the line should give you a good idea of the slump as it’s being mixed. That’s how slump meters work in transit mix trucks. The higher the pressure, the stiffer the slump.
Just curious if you were up and running and how it was going.