Hey Guys - Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I purchased a 2005 Volvo 160BLC last year with the knowledge (from the previous owner) that the swing brake friction plates needed replacement. He said this was obvious based on the fact that, when the machine is parked on an incline it has a tendency to swing the boom to wherever gravity wants to take it. So far this makes sense to me.....now for the things that concern me with placing all of the focus on just the swing brake friction plates. I ran the machine for a few hours this summer but intentionally did not run it long before addressing the issue. When I did run it I noticed two things that I'm hoping you guys can help me link to the swing brake issue. 1) When I start to swing and when I slow the swing to a stop there is a vibration / chatter I can feel (and maybe hear a little bit). I thought that would be related to the application and removal of the swing brake but then I read somewhere that the swing brake is not applied until "X" seconds after you release the swing control so this confuses me a bit and may not be related to the worn friction plates. 2) I have had what I think is hydraulic fluid rise up and out of the swing motor dipstick. My theory is that the lower seal in the swing motor has failed dumping / flooding the swing motor gearbox with hydraulic fluid and the only place the fluid can go is up the dipstick tube. Yesterday I worked wresting the swing motor out of the machine. I am going to seek help from a professional as it relates to the re-build of the swing motor but before I do that I was hoping you guys could give me a little help / confidence that I had some idea if the three issues I am seeing are related to each other. BTW - the planetary gears in the gear box look perfect. I could not find a single issue with them. Also the fluid from the gear box looked very clean. Thank you guys in advance for any help you can offer. Please tell me if you need anymore specific details to be able to offer advice. Scott
Good day I can confirm the swing brake is of the negative type only applies after the swing has come to rest, you describe hydraulic fluid coming from the swing transmission that indicates that the problem is a little more seriouse, I suggest you fire out the swing transmission and split it down. There is much more on line see attached it may well help you. Kind regards Uffex
In the absence of a parts book this may be helpfull KR Uffex
Thanks Uffex. I'm trying to understand the hydraulic circuit flows in the reference material you sent me. I guess I'm also looking for advice on what to do now (obviously I am new to heavy equipment maintenance but pretty decent with my hands). My initial thought is that, since the swing motor is already out, we should go through with the re-build....or at least open it up to see if we can find any clues. Obviously the leaking oil is an issue inside the swing motor so even if the brake friction plates are not the issue the motor still needs to be torn down and looked at. Once I get that done I put it back in the machine and go from there? One thing I forgot to mention on the original post was that when the machine is swinging it feels perfect. No hesitation or thumps/bumps, etc. Whatever the vibration/chatter is - it does not appear to be a mechanical break but maybe more related to hydraulics or hydraulic control.
With the motor removed I would lift the bucket at full reach and rotate the superstructure by pushing on the bucket listen and feel for any imperfections, taking out the swing transmission is not so big job - changing the filters is a good idea especially the case drain that can cause motor seal failure and leak hydraulic fluid into the transmission, when you drain down the transmission check for any metal hopefully your issue is only at the motor end, you could fill the transmission with light oil if it drains away for sure the bottom seal will require some attention. Hope the story helps you so far. Kind regards Uffex
Is the case drain filter you speak of inside the swing motor case? Or is this a filter that is on all fluid coming back into the hydraulic fluid reservoir? Also - I'm concerned about starting the machine with all of the lines off the swing motor. I did not have plugs for the lines so I tied them up to a bar placed between. The railing and the cab. They are higher than the reservoir (so they are not leaking fluid) but I would think if I start it they may pour fluid out of them all over the place. Thoughts? BTW - I did manually push the boom back when the swing motor was in and there were no hesitations or wierd sounds. It was somewhat hard to push but I could slowly get it to swing. My guess was that what little was left of the swing brake friction plates were being applied making it tougher to manually swing.
Oops I thought you had plugged the lines sorry do not run the machine with open lines, I will find a picture of the case drain and post it to you, with the motor in place you should not be able to rotate the superstructure unless these are kaput. I would recommend you get hold of plugs for those lines. KR Uffex
I will work on the plugs. My friend who is helping me tried to supply some plugs but they were the opposite of what would fit. Meaning the mating surface in the plugs/caps were angled the same way as the fitting I wanted to seal instead of being the opposite angle that would mate nicely with my lines. I cant remember what he said his fittings were.....maybe "schedule 61" or something like that. Sorry - this stuff is pretty new to me. Do you happen to know what the Volvo fittings are called? I'm hoping they are pretty much the same fitting - just different sizes....? I can get some pics if that helps.
Case drain is a large canister spin on filter located in the pump room.
Have you checked the oil in the swing gearbox?
Yes. I drained the oil in the gearbox before removing the swing motor and it was very clean. I saw no sign of metal fragments or shavings. I also removed the planetary gears out of the swing motor gearbox and they look perfect. No obvious wear spots and the pins feel tight. I took the planetaries with me when I took out the swing motor so they can be inspected by the professional who helps me with re-building the swing motor. I can supply pics if anyone thinks it will help.
Uffex - This summer my machine would swing perfectly once it got going.....the only time I heard or felt a bad noise was on start and stop of the swing. If there was an issue with the gearbox or the ring gear on the turn-table I would have thought the machine would be clunking or vibrating when it swung....? It swings perfectly....just start and stop of swing has issues. Just a thought.
And it does not matter where in the rotation of the machine I started and stopped it would always vibrate / chatter at the start of the swing and as I slowed the rotation to a stop anywhere in the 360 degree rotation.
That is good news it limits the issue to that of the motor. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - Sounds good. So you would recommend I stick with my plan and work with my guy to tear down the swing motor to see if there are clues to what went wrong? Have you ever seen the three symptoms I have with my machine occur in another machine? That is really what I am looking for - someone who might have seen or heard of my issues happening in another (Volvo) machine and, in the end, what they found to be the root cause of the issues. I know I definitely have an issue with the lower seal and I'm guessing I have worn friction plates. My question is why did the lower seal fail? Is there movement in the swing motor shaft causing the lower seal to fail? If so - I should be looking closely at the bearings inside the swing motor to determine if there is enough play to cause the lower seal to fail. The other question I need to solve is why is there vibration when I start/stop the rotation? I thought it had to do with worn/defective friction plates but if these plates don't engage until "X" number of seconds after I stop the rotation then there is no reason to think the plates are causing the vibration...at least not on the stop of the rotation (I can see maybe a vibration on the start of the rotation as the plates dis-engage). If there is play in the main shaft of the swing motor (contributing to the failure of the lower seal) - does this explain the vibration I feel in starting/stopping of the rotation? This last question is the closest I have gotten to tying at least two of my issues together. I guess I really won't know a lot of these answers until we get the swing motor apart. I will follow up on this forum with any info I find. I will try to take pics and post them in hopes that it will help others in the future. Thank you guys for the help in getting me started in the right direction. Scott
That sounds like a good plan to me in theory the friction plates sound not wear so much as the brake is more as a parking brake than that to stop the machine may be worth checking out the brake delay valve when you get it up and running, maybe fun with fuel has something he can had I know he has a high level of experience with this product. Kind regards Uffex
Very good. Thank you. Hopefully FunWithFuel has heard of a couple of my issues happening on Volvo machines and can give me that last bit of confidence that I'm going in the right direction.
I would say you're on the right path at least as far as the swing leaking into the swing box. Once you get it apart, pay close attention to the fit of each piston to its respective bore in the rotating assembly. If you're overpressure in the case, its usually resultant to high flow from someone having too loose of a fit. Not necessarily the swing, could be travel or pumps as well. This goes back to removing and cutting your case drain filter. You must use a filter cutter to do it properly. Once inside, pour the contents out onto a clean white rag or shop towel. You're looking for fine gold particles. While you don't want to see any, dont freak out if there are a couple. If you have a snow globe of particles in there, you need to find root cause. You're already into your swing motor. Start there.
BTW, your swing brake should last the life of your machine. It is only a parking brake. For the most part your swing relies on hydrodynamic braking caused by your internal anti-cavitation and pressure reducing valves. If your frictions are shot, you need to look at port SH PG and DR one controls flow of oil to release, one is release oil and one is drain. If any are obstructed that would result in retarded brake release and/ or apply. Check hose back to source as well.
Is there any sort of minimum thickness specification on the friction plates for me to know if they are bad? Unless they are visually (obviously) compromised I'm not sure how I determine if they are bad or gather evidence that they are being applied too often due to some other issue. Thanks FunWithFuel.
Also - I just paid the $50 and downloaded the Volvo Service manual for the EC160BLC. Do you know if the manual describes the procedure of using the filter cutting tool and where I would get my hands on this tool? I'm assuming it is like a large copper tubing cutter in that it will cleanly open the filter without adding additional metal particles that would send me on a "wild goose chase" of troubleshooting a problem that does not exist.
Nope not in that manual
Spot on
Just google filter cutter. There are all kinds of resources. From Granger to summit racing to Amazon. If you were swinging with the brake applied, you'll know. The steels will be blue and wavy, the frictions will be burnt. There is no mistaking. If I can get my laptop working, I will try to find you minimum thickness specs. Might have to wait until Monday though
Did you get the complete service manual set. There should be a section under power transmission or hydraulics describing every detail of what happens incrementally when you demand swing with the joystick. Once you have read that section 7 or 8 times it will start to make sense, the order of things and how 1 leads to the other. The biggest thing to take away is how 1 fault causes all kinds of mischief
I did purchase what I believe to be the full service manual. I kind of cringe now that I have done that - before I was fat, dumb and happy thinking you apply hydraulic pressure and the thing turns. Now I realize there are a thousand things that could go wrong in there. It is somewhat intimidating for someone who does not do this for a living. I will read the transmission section over several times. I also need to print out the images since I will need to look at them as the manual describes what is happening. I cannot do both right now as it is being displayed on my small laptop screen. I will look for the filter cutter. Also - I likely will not be getting into the swing motor for a few weeks so the minimum thickness tolerances can wait until it is convenient for you. I want to take some time to see if I can understand more of what is happening inside that swing motor before opening it up. Thanks.
There are things going on outside as well. You have to look at the whole thing or you trip in the hole. Haha, dumb pun.
FWF - I cannot figure out what the third large line is that attaches to the swing motor. The 3/4 lines that go to ports A & B are self-explanatory but the third 3/4 line that is identified as connecting to the Make-up (Mu) port has no mention other than it can be removed and the threaded port used to hold an eye-bolt while pulling the motor out of the machine. Any idea if it has any other function? If I remember right it connects back to the main valve bank on the exterior (far end) using a short 10" line.
Are you sure you have a hose feeding Mu it should be at port dr. Mu is make up oil , it is the chamber between the anti-cavitation valves where oil from A is allowed to leak to B after overcoming the relief valves. Think of it like this, machine is running, you have demanded swing, the brake release servo is applied allowing flow to release the park brake, now the oil enters port a or b from main control valve depending on which direction you have moved the stick. So the machine begins to move (swing) . Now you stop swing, your house and implement cannot suddenly stop, that would break things . By design, you have hydrodynamic braking. You have centered the spool in the main control valve. The oil no longer flows. It has to go somewhere. The mass of the upper wants to keep going. It essentially has turned the motor into a pump. The motor pumps the oil over the relief into the Mu passage where its allowed to fill the other side as the high pressure bleeds into the negative pressure. This is a very aggressive brake. Now since you have released the stick to neutral, you've also cancelled the swing brake release signal. As the release oil decays through drain channel the brake begins to set. I tried to simplify the function as much as possible to make it easier to get a grip on. Please, share your thoughts and how well you feel you've grasped the principle. 3rd big hose should be case drain at port dr, if you follow it back it should lead you to a large (6-8") spin on filter in the pump room.
Hi this is all I could find on the swing motor specs. Fun with Fuel will be able to give you more info 15 Friction plate and Mating plate Micro groove pattern is worn off The sliding surface is scored. The edges are damaged. The plates are warped. Brake torque more than 40.6 kgf·m (293 lbf·ft)
It is hard to see in this pic but the metal fittings between the two pressure relief valves have a tee which is connect down into the swing motor. Based on the service manual this is the drain line (Dr) port. About 2" towards the A & B ports directly in the middle of the motor you can see a large (3/4) line that comes out of the top of the swing motor and is connected back to the main valve bank. Once again - according to the service manual this is the Make-up port (Mu).
Here's another pic that isn't great but you can see the 3/4 line connected to the main valve bank.
FWF - I am starting to understand some of the process. I do understand the motor works as a pump to slow the rotation when the superstructure is still turning but the joystick goes back to neutral (I used to think it slowed because of the application of the friction plates but I understand now the use of the motor as a pump through spring loaded relief valves). I assume the relief valves are the same relief valves used for fluid bypass if you try to rotate but your boom is stuck on something. The fluid needs somewhere to go so it floods into the center (Mu) chamber and then still needs to go somewhere so it uses the relief valves in the opposite manner as intended. I think there is only one set of relief valves so the same valves that are used to bypass normal rotation are used to quickly reduce speed on the motor when it is a pump......correct?
Good day I hope this explanation may answer the questions, the remaining valves that I have not mentioned are the rebound dampening valves these limit the rebound when the machine brake's from the swing motion, I have not known these to give any issue but there is always a first. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - This image is perfect. It really ties the operation of the different circuits together for me. Thanks. There is one more set of valves beyond the dampening valves correct? I thought I read somewhere about the "anti-cavitation valves" for when the machine is swinging so fast that the supply of fluid is not enough to meet the demand giving the motor the opportunity to cavitate. But that set of valves certainly does not seem to be part of my issue. What I am getting from both you and FWF is that the Mu chamber is really just that - a chamber. The chamber doesn't need an exterior connection because the fluid enters the Mu chamber and gets released through the opposite main line when the motor is operating as a pump to slow itself down. Why my machine has a large line coming off the Mu chamber back to the MCV is sort of a mystery. I will swing by my machine today and take a good pic of where the 3/4 Mu line connects to on the MCV.
I had thought of a question for you guys last night.....is the drain line (Dr) responsible for draining all excess fluid from anywhere inside the swing motor housing back to the reservoir (through the main filter)? Meaning - this line is responsible for removing the fluid that is supposed to be contained by the lower seal around the main output shaft (the same seal that is leaking in my motor)? And this is why you guys want me to check/change the main filter because if that is clogged it would create a certain amount of restriction with the return of the fluid to the reservoir thus creating extra pressure within the swing motor housing and this pressure could be the reason my lower seal is not holding back the fluid? Not neccesarily that the seal is bad but more that it is trying to hold back pressure it was never designed to do.
The main filter, in tank, is NOT the case drain filter. The main filter is a drop in element that sits in a well in the top of the tank. The case drain is a large spin on in n the pump room and on the cwt side of the pump room is the pilot filter. As a matter of routine maintenance they should be serviced at 2k hour intervals at least.
I would endorse FwF explanation hope you can follow, all components leak some (internally) this is connected to the tank fluid without passing the main filters, there only three sets of valves in the motor head relief valves x 2 - anti rebound valves x 2 - check valves x 2. Do you think there could be a demand for an online training course for excavators ? Kind regards Uffex
Ahhhh - understood FWF. So the only fluid that the spin-on case drain filter cleans (filters) is fluid from the various case drains on the machine.....hence the name....correct? That is why my drain line (Dr) is shared with the case drain line coming from the "pass-thru" device which delivers fluid to the final drives in the crawler part of the machine. (Sorry - showing my inexperience again not knowing the name of that device). This device must loose some excess fluid in the transfer and needs to return this fluid to the reservoir thru a case drain line shared with the swing motor that finally passes thru the case drain filter before returning to the reservoir. I'm assuming there is also case drain lines from other components on the machine (main pump and maybe the main valve body) that also put fluid back thru the case drain filter? This is why we are opening the case drain filter carefully and looking at anything that has been caught in the filter material to try to determine what component may be failing or at least wearing significantly.
Uffex - If you find an online course on excavators please let me know - I will be the first to sign up. Thank you guys for taking time to work with me. I understand it is frustrating trying to educate folks who don't have a decent knowledge base to start with. Hopefully I am starting to turn the corner on this and things are starting to fall into place.
If a guy is willing to learn and ask questions, most folks will step up and help when and where they can. I try to stick with Volvos as its about all I know . It translates to quite a few other lines as well. If you pay attention to what you're reading and question what doesn't make sense, you'll pick up a lot. The fact that you've got your hands in it, the lessons are likely to stick. You always get more when you have skin in the game.
Good day Upta-maine The question was a serious enquiry to you who come over as inquisitive mind - it is something our team has been considering. I would be interested if others who follow the HEF threads would be interested, the negative aspect is that we could not do it without costs. I must admit administering such a program to be more or less universal does seem a little daunting, see what the comment brings. Kind regards Uffex
Here's the rub, I and others are helping you troubleshoot a symptom. We're not there, we don't know your skill level, or for that matter, how much common sense you have. It puts us in the trick bag as, could we possibly get this guy hurt, while trying to help him out? I'm not saying you in particular, but any person who asks for help. There are certain things I'll feel someone out before I start sharing information. It's too easy to get hurt or killed. Some things you only get one chance to do it wrong. It could be the last. Ain't trying to scare anyone, just instill a healthy respect for things that could hurt them.
To clear up a few things on this thread. The last document uffex posted is incorrect in that the SH and PG ports on the brake valve are labeled opposite. The PG should be on the left and SH on the right. The way it is shown would allow the brakes to not release completely and a delayed release as you would be releasing with signal oil from the joystick and not pilot oil. The MU port is connected correctly in your pictures. MU is make up oil and is connected to the return circuit in the MCV. this oil goes through back pressure check valves on its way to the reservoir and is slightly higher pressure than tank pressure. This primarily used on circuits hat require make up oil or regeneration. Drain oil is case drain and any drain oil from any circuit than needs to drain back to tank without the added pressure from the back pressure check valves. This oil from the swing motor does go through the case drain filter. On uffex's last document where the cutaway shows the A and B port. As you look from left to right the passage first comes to the rebound dampening valves, in the middle are the 2 anti-cavitation valves and on the right are the 2 relief valves, The relief valves provide circuit protection and braking force when you stop swinging as has been stated. The check valves allow make up oil into the low pressure side of the circuit when needed and the rebound dampening valves allow for the upper structure to stop smoothly and not bounce back and forth. I probably would have had you measure case drain pressure and also the swing relief valves before you removed the swing motor but that is too late now. I would also measure swing bearing play and inspect the swing gear grease bath to see what condition that is in. If you can swing the upper stricture with the arm out and bucket off the ground the brake is not working correctly.
FWF - I completely understand your point. You have a wide range of folks who come to you and ask for advice without you knowing anything about them. I am obviously the benefactor here. Screening folks before getting too far down the road is important and I'm sure everyone's situation is different. For me - I own a machine that is for my own use. I do not have it on jobs for customers and, because of that I do not have the ability (financial or otherwise) to drop the machine off in Volvo's yard and write them a blank check to fix it. I guess I should also say I really don't want Volvo fixing it behind closed doors because, in the end, I will be the one running the machine and I would like to have some idea what is really happening inside the machine. I want know what actions hurt the machine and how to feel for things that are not normal during the course of operating the machine. My own opinion - good operators know how to work their machines inside and out.
Quite honestly this this far from accurate. The vast majority of what would be considered good operators know little about their machines. A small percentage may, but often what they think they know is wrong. Owner operators maybe a little better but still many of them don't understand their machines fully.
Ben - Thanks for correcting my opinion. I appreciate it.
Was this problem ever resolved? Had the same vibration in cab when stopping. 2006. Was sold some bad fluid, that wreaked havoc on my hydraulics and that was one of the symptoms I was left with after bad oil was drained.
PTA - I just got the swing motor out on the machine and into my shop. I plan to get help rebuilding the motor from someone who has done it a few times before. It will be awhile before I get it rebuilt but I will continue to post my progress on this forum. More to.come. Scott
Uffex / FwF - I wanted to do a little "common sense" testing now that I have the swing motor on my workbench. Obviously there is something wrong if I have hydraulic fluid rising up and out of the dipstick tube. I'm not suggesting that there isn't some external (block drain line, dirty/wrong case drain filter, etc) causing this issue but absent of all of that I should be able to see if my lower seal is bad. I set the motor on my workbench and placed a clean/dry container directly below the main output shaft. Using a small pouring container I filled my drain port to the top with hydraulic fluid and left this for 48 hours. Tonight I tipped the motor up and found a decent amount of hydraulic fluid in the container....maybe 8-10 tablespoons. Considering that the only force pushing this fluid is gravity - I am fairly convinced my lower seal is shot. As you guys know I don't have all the tools to perform elaborate/accurate testing of the various systems but I'm hoping you would agree this "common sense" test is valid. Your thoughts? I will attach some pics.
BTW......I ordered a filter cutter that should arrive by this weekend so I can take a look at any debris in the case drain filter.
Good day Scottt Common sense prevails that is a good start well done, I will try to get you that section of the manual I assume you do not have it. Movement in the shaft will result is seal failure so please check it out - the original fault you described of the noise should be fairly obvious, if there is little obvious damage suggests that the fault is most likely generated from the one of the valves. You could pressurise the motor to test the repair the pressure is very low 43 p.s.i max Kind regards Uffex
Uffex / FwF - Sorry for the delay - been busy with my regular job. The filter opener that I ordered off Amazon arrived and I was able to quickly and easily open the case drain filter. Please keep in mind the previous owner of this machine claimed that he had gone through the entire machine and changed all filters/fluids just before he sold it so that "the new owner would be all set to go". I'm hoping that was truly his intention and not to try to hide anything that possibly could have indicated issues. So when we look at the results of my research please keep in mind I have only run the machine for less than 4 hours since this filter was supposedly changed. The photo below is the debris that was filtered out (using a piece of the wife's best satin sheets) from the gearbox fluid below the swing motor. There is a good chance that not all of this debris was in the gearbox since the drain for the gearbox is in a very dirty area that is tough to avoid contamination when draining the fluid. I did smoosh/spread-out the larger particles to make sure they were not chunks of metal and in all cases they were clumps of greasy type material that very well may have fallen into the container I was collecting the fluid in. Also - the gears look perfect. I think the planetary gears and the gearbox are in good shape.
Now for the filter. I was really hoping to find an obvious "smoking gun" but was immediately disappointed when there was not a bunch of debris left-over on the cloth. However with a very close look I did find one fairly large particle, one medium and a few small flakes. All particles I believe to be made of brass (or a material that looks very much like brass). I was still a little disappointed not having more to share with you guys (and for my own piece of mind). So I decided to carefully remove the top and bottom sheet metal rings that make up the filter itself. I opened up the filter material from its original round, accordion configuration and stretched it out on the table with input side up. It took me a while but with a good light and careful examination I found more (and larger) particles of a brass type material caught in various places on the filter material. There were chunks and flakes. I gathered them all together on one blade of the filter and put a ruler in the picture to give you a reference (the ruler has divisions of 1/32"). With this find and the particles I found in the fluid itself and considering that there has only been a few hours run with this filter in place I would definitely say I have an issue related to a component that is made of brass or directly interfacing with brass....which leads me to my last bit of info in my next post.
I contacted the guy who was recommended by a friend to help me tear-down and analyse my swing motor to determine what the path forward to fixing it will look like. He asked me to explain in detail the issues. As soon as I got done he said he has seen this before and believes he has a theory on what went wrong to cause my two major issues (vibration and oil coming out of the gearbox dipstick). He said it was not on a Volvo but he has worked on swing motors from either a Cat or Komatsu (or maybe both - I can't remember) and has seen the exact same symptoms. He says there are 9 pistons in the swing motor that ride on the swash plate using small brass feet (called slippers) connected to the piston with a small universal type joint. He said in the motors he has seen this happen that one of the nine slippers broke. Because only one broke it is a vibration or thumping that increases with the speed of the rotation (exactly as mine does) as opposed to a constant noise or grinding if I suffered a more catastrophic failure with multiple pistons/slippers. He also said that when this happens it causes the swing motor to leak a ton of hydraulic fluid. This fluid uses the case drain circuit to return to the tank but when the condition worsens the case drain circuit is too small to handle the large amount of fluid that is now dumping out of the swing motor. When this happens it creates pressure on the inside of the case and the first thing component to fail is the main seal. It doesn't really fail as much as the rubber lip on the main shaft seal, which normally always points towards the fluid it is trying to hold back, gets hit with this pressure and it inverts the rubber lip so that it is now pointing away from the fluid (towards the gearbox). He said it will still provide and small amount of its original function but no where near the reliability of the original design. This seems to fit my situation very well. I have evidence of brass in the case drain filter - the slippers are made of brass. I have a vibration that follows the speed of the rotation - a single piston malfunction would do this. I have fluid that is slowly building and coming up out of the gearbox dipstick - if my main shaft seal was flipped it would hold back some fluid but there would be an amount that leaked into the gearbox with no place to go but up the dipstick tube. Oh...almost forgot to mention - the guy said he would be happy to have me join him in his shop to tear down the swing motor. He said he would show me the components as we went along and then, based on what we find, make a decision whether this swing motor is fixable or whether it may make more sense to look for a used or rebuilt one. Your thoughts? Am I missing something that could introduce doubt to this theory? Thanks, Scott
Good day Scott May I say it is easy to get lost in the haze of comments and we can loose sight of the original issue 1/ fluid coming from the swing transmission = over pressure from the drain line or motor seal failure 2/ Noise or vibration both from beginning the swing motion or stopping = either an issue with the swing brake releasing or a swing pressure issue both can be detected with a pressure gauge installed in the main line. I have taken a look at the wife's laundry but it is difficult to comment from this distance. In your shoes I suggest taking the motor unit to the bench splitting it down and giving it a close inspection but before taking that action to put a gauge in the line and observe what is happening at start & stop. Regarding be aware of what you are dealing with a contact posted a short video to me that makes a good example. https://drive.google.com/open?id=18C7-U70OBHVSw9gIoqEirvhap0mHiUts Take care Uffex
The theory is strong. If a shoe is bad, odds are, there's nothing left of the rotating assembly to rebuild. Better off (cheaper) with reman exchange with a warranty. Had a travel motor blow like that. When I measured case drain it fired like a machine gun. The flow should be nothing more than a trickle. Rule of thumb is no more that 10% of max flow @ full throttle and full load. Never turn down the opportunity for free education. If the guy is willing to walk you through it. I have a vendor here in Illinois who specializes in reman Volvo components. Competitive prices and a solid no BS warranty. Not associated with, just had plenty of good experiences.
Thanks to both of you guys. Uffex - On my computer I click on the file name of the image and, when it opens, if I click again it allows me to zoom in to a decent granularity. I took as high a resolution photo as possible with my phone. Hopefully your computer allows some magnification. FwF - I have contacted H&R Construction Parts in Buffalo, NY. I have heard they are about the biggest around. I spoke with them and I'm still waiting for a call back as the guy was going to get me a "ballpark" price on a used swing motor. Once we have torn down the swing motor and determine the exact cause of the issues (if it is OK with you) I would like to ask you for the info of your place in Illinois. I get a feeling it is going to be pretty pricey to fix this (considering I use the machine for personal use and don't have a huge budget for repairs) but it is what it is. Big toys come with big price tags when things break. Thank you in advance for the help, Scott
Hi Scott The image is a MP4 file I have checked it with moth Mac & Linux it works normally I am not so sure about other platforms. May be your platform is different not allowing MP4 files. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex, that was awesome. Guess he shoulda read the ops manual.
All - Sorry it has been so long since I have been on the forum but I now have some results to report related to my swing motor issue. Long story short - instead of using multiple independent coil springs to keep the rotating piston/cylinder assembly pressed up against the top cover (the top assembly that delivers the hydraulic fluid past all of the operational valves and pressure relief valves and into the rotating cylinder assembly) Volvo now uses a much cheaper single "ring spring" (Volvo part #8230-04320). This ring spring resembles a fender washer that is curved and made out of spring metal to provide upward pressure on the cylinder assembly mating plate allowing the transfer of pressurized hydraulic fluid into the piston chambers from the cover so that the pistons can be activated and pressed against the swash plate to create rotational force. I'm sure there are "official" names of all of these parts that I am screwing up - but you guys get the picture. So the ring spring in my swing motor had broken a chunk off and roughly 20 - 25 percent of it was missing. This chuck of steel bounced around inside the swing motor case for a while before getting beaten to pieces and presumably ejected out the case drain when it was in small enough pieces to fit. This was visible as the brass slippers on all pistons took a significant amount of abuse on their sides but not on the surface that is in contact with the swash plate.....fortunately that surface was perfect as was the swash plate itself. Based on the fact the spring was not applying full force to the rotating piston/cylinder assembly it allowed the mating surface between the top cover and the assembly to separate slightly as it spun. This, in turn, allowed a significant amount of hydraulic fluid to dump into the case and caused a thumping in the machine during rotation with a consistent rhythm that matched the speed of the rotation of the super structure. So that is the story behind the issue. If there is interest in the fix or any other questions about my adventure with this swing motor that may save others time - please ask and I can elaborate. I can tell you that I put the swing motor back in this weekend and I no longer have oil dumping into my gearbox nor do I have any thumping as the machine rotates. Let me know if anyone needs/wants more data on the fix. FwF / Uffex - Thanks again for all your help. You guys got me pointed in the right direction. Scott
Glad to hear you got her straightened out. Those are called belleville washers. Not really a cheap out, just different. Very common in various applications. Clutch packs, reduction brakes, etc. I guess the lack of swing brake should have guided us there after hydraulic and mechanical issues were ruled out. Those bellevilles rarely wear out or brake.