Guys - Another issue with my Volvo 160 that seems to be getting worse (someday I would like to think that I will have all of the issues worked out of this machine.....but not today I guess). This issue seems to have started a few weeks back and feels like it is getting worse. My machine is set up for Cat controls (right stick forward and back = boom up and down, right stick left and right = bucket curl). With it in this configuration I am experiencing an issue with only the functions that are controlled by the right hand stick but both functions are experiencing a similar issue. I also seem to only experience the issue when under a load (all functions worked perfectly operating the machine with the bucket in the air). The third commonality is that it seems to trigger when I am doing two functions at once. When I am digging and curl the bucket while lifting the boom there is a significant loss of power to the extent that I can pull back on the right stick and the boom does nothing. It's almost like it falls asleep. I say that because I can hit another function and it wakes up immediately and performs the function. The bucket curl doesn't stop entirely but slows to almost nothing. Once again I can wake it up and it works fine. The left stick functions as well as the travel pedal and thumb controls work perfectly all the time. As FwF, Uffex and others know - I do not have a tremendous amount of knowledge on troubleshooting issues with this machine....although I'm learning. My thoughts: 1) Change the controls to John Deere controls and see what functions don't work. Maybe this can help us tell where in the control hydraulics I have an issue. 2) Put my gauge kit on the test port of the pilot break-out box to see if there are any issues with the pilot pump - although I would not think this to be the case since other functions are working well. Beyond this I'm at a loss as to what else to try next. Any assistance would be appreciated. I will be headed up to camp Thursday night (the 160 is at camp) so if you have any ideas please let me know and I will try them this weekend. I do have internet service at camp so I should be able to respond back quickly with any results. I also uploaded three images. The first is what I think is the pilot control break-out box. The second is my pilot pump. The third is a few devices directly underneath my pilot pump that I'm not sure what they do. Thanks in advance, Scott
Perhaps #24 has a screen in it?
Good day U-M My impression of the issue you describe is that of a machine that has a problem with the pump regulation - using another circuit activates a sleeping pump - If you can couple a gauge to the main pump ports and operate the boom/bucket both run from the same pump and see what you get. Kind regards Uffex
Here is the common cause it is a guess without diagnostics but it is easy to find.
Uffex - Do you know how often the issue described in your attachment happens? Is it more common with a certain year / serial number range? What is the function of the check valve that is mentioned in your alert? Thanks, Scott
One more question - is there a way I can confirm the proper operation of the check valve (once it is removed) before I purchase a new one from Volvo? I'm assuming they don't give these away...
Good day Scott The symptom in your thread relates directly to this valve - the machine has two main hydraulic circuits (2 pumps) both use a common relief valve - when you use only one circuit there must be prevention of that pump feeding back to tank via the idle circuit - hence the check valve - the issue is not serial number related it is a problem that has come up from time to time maybe it is an exaggeration on my part to say it is common however not unknown. I suggest you do not go and buy parts take a look first – vent the tank – after the machine has stood a while – take a large key remove the plug – take out the parts and inspect – feel inside the block for a damaged seat – in most case’s you will see the problem remember fluid will flow while the plug is out – off course I could be wrong I have made a guess from your thread but it adds up exactly. Check it out it only takes ten minutes tops.photo is not exact but it gives you a good idea. Kind regards Uffex
Quick block diagram may help. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - Sorry for the long delay with this response - I finally had a chance to do some troubleshooting on my 2005 EC160BLC this weekend. So it was a little bit of a struggle to get the check valve hex-socket plug removed (the one highlighted in the document you sent me) but then it finally went. Unfortunately what I found inside that chamber was a complete surprise to me.....there was nothing in there. No check valve, no spring....nothing. This seems very weird. I doubt whether it would work well at all if that component was needed but is not there. I put it back together and the machine runs the same as before I had opened it. Attached are some pics. Any ideas? Is it possible some machines accomplished this function with a different mechanism (like the block attached to the top of the main valve body in the last pic)? Or is it possible that the documents highlighted the wrong hex-socket plug to remove and inspect? Shown below are some screen shots out of the Service Manual that may indicate the plug I removed (top plug on the right-hand side of the vale body) labeled "3" in the image is described as an "Orifice" which makes sense when you look at the plug in my hand. However the next plug down on the right-hand side is labeled "11" in the image and is described as "Load Check Valve (slew, boom)". Also the "Y" channel in the image for 11 definitely fits the PDF you sent me better than 3. Really confused here. Also the image out of my parts manual clearly shows no check valve in the top hex-socket plug but there is a check valve behind the 2nd, 3rd and 4th plugs down. Thanks, Scott
Additional pics......
A reminder on the location indicated in the bulletin for this issue.....
And the last thing I learned while trying to figure out any patterns to this problem.....the issue that I am experiencing (failure to lift the boom when the right joystick is pulled back) often happens when the throttle is below half (in positions 1-5 which is "idle" and "fine" and the green muscle man is lit on the control panel otherwise known as the "Boost Indicator") but NEVER happens when the throttle is above half (positions 6-9 which is "general", "Heavy" and "Power Max" and the green muscle man is NOT lit on the control panel). I'm still trying to understand "Boost Mode". Apparently it is engaged using the 5th toggle button down on the right side of the operator's seat. Maybe I have that selector witch in the wrong position and that is causing my issue? Do I even have a problem with the machine or am I causing the problem with my lack of knowledge on the options this machine has....? Any guidance here would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott
Good day Upta-maine Boost Mode is an increase of pressure of about 30 bars intended to assist with heavy lifts that were border line with the main relief valve.This option can be selected by the button on the RCV handle for a short period or when in "F" mode then it is active all the time. The Main relief valve is common to both pumps from your description it would appear that one pump is sleeping > do you have any issue with tracking or bucket ? Try to raise the boom in "F" mode only one pump serving the boom. Kind regards Uffex
Good day A better explanation. Kind regards Uffex
As mentioned by Uffex above, track speed. Get each track in the air, one at a time. Properly adjusted chains, no banjo strings, no loosey goosey either. Paint a pad. Full throttle, measure the time to make 3 rotations. First one doesn't count. Use the lap counter function as well, it helps you see where human error is an issue in measuring the time. 3x in low and high speed travel. Record measurements. This is what we are going to use to determine if the flow is sufficient. Next one is a little tricky. You need a piece of solid bar. I use a large impact socket in a pinch. You want it to fit firmly in the sprocket so as to jam the sprocket against the frame. Then at full throttle with the track stalled, you're going to measure pressure with the track deadhead. Do this for both tracks. Again, record all findings. This will tell us if each pump is able to attain the pressure needed. Then we can look at pilot control and reliefs as well as conflux. As it is now, I know of one MCV that had an internal issue, where I have knowledge of at least 5 pump regulators having issues. Sometimes it's just trash in the lines. Let us know what you come up with.
Guys - Sorry about the delay. Weird - this forum used to email me whenever someone responded to my post....apparently it does not do that anymore. So we'll take this one thing at a time: Track testing - I did this under FwF's guidance about 6 months ago. I painted a line on each track and (with the tracks in the air) I spun them independently at the same engine RPM.....they spun four complete rotations (ignoring the first rotation) and the difference between the two sides was roughly one tenth of a second (0.1 second) on average doing this test three times to each track and taking the average time. I also ran the machine forward on a flat surface for 250' and the track imprints left behind were perfectly straight. I ran it back to the starting point - the machine was roughly 8" off where it started. It runs perfectly straight. Based on a recommendation from my local Volvo shop with my gauges connected to P-1 I dead-ended the boom and watched the gauge - slightly over 5000psi. I changed to P-2 and dead-ended the stick while watching the gauge - exactly the same as P-1 at slightly over 5000psi. Also at FwF's suggestion I took the entire RCV apart and looked for debris in the hydraulic lines under the control (especially around the filter embedded in the line) - everything was clean. Can you guys help me understand two things before we bounce around too much: 1) If there is a bulletin advising that my exact symptoms could be related to a check-valve at the location specified in the bulletin - why in the world is there no check valve there? This makes no sense. 2) If the green man (boost mode) is active in F1, F2 and F3 and this is always when I have my problem.....can't I just turn Boost Mode off and see what happens? Wouldn't this make sense to pursue this avenue to see where it goes? Meaning if it is pump or regulator related or something more serious then the problem should still be there whether Boost Mode is on or off. But if the issue no longer happens then we're getting somewhere. Can we talk about the 5th toggle switch down on the right side of the operator? My operators manual states the following about the 5th toggle switch (Boost Mode): Middle position: Boost Mode - If button (C) on the RCV is pressed digging power is increased for 9 seconds. Top position: Hammer Mode - In this position boost mode doesn't function. Bottom position: Shear Mode - Same as middle position....If button (C) on the RCV is pressed digging power is increased for 9 seconds. Why is the boost indicator on if I never hit the "C" button on the right joystick? If I have the Boost Mode switch in either the middle or bottom position - will it always come on if the throttle is in F1, F2 or F3 even if I don't trigger it on the joystick? Can I flip the switch to the top position (Hammer position and I won't use my thumb) and see if the issue continues? Answer to Uffex's question: "Do you have any issue with tracking or bucket?" - No. The machine tracks perfectly and the bucket has never had an issue with curling. I agree that it feels like pump-1 falls asleep when in F1, F2 or F3. I say this because I can wake the pump up by doing anything with the LCV. Say I pull back on the RCV and the boom doesn't lift - while I still have the RCV pulled back if I do anything with the LCV the boom immediately starts working again. In essence by triggering anything off pump-2 on the LCV (with RCV still engaged) I can wake pump-1 up. Thank you guys for the help, Scott
Also - please keep in mind that when I purchased this machine there was an issue with the swing motor. I took the swing motor out and a professional heavy equipment mechanic helped me tear it down and re-build it. Turns out the issue was the spring (looks like a curved washer - I think they call it a "Bellville Disc Spring") that holds pressure on the rotating assembly against the top plate where the hydraulic fluid comes in.....this spring had roughly 40% of it gone. The spring broke a chunk off and that chunk got smashed around in the swing motor until it was in pieces small enough to exit (presumably through the case drain). The swing motor is fine now but there is a chance the debris from this incident is elsewhere in the machine. I would hope that the majority of it got captured in the case drain filter but I thought I would mention this.
Ok. That explains so much. F is fine control. F1,2&3 are all on one pump. Nobody digs in F. You would be in G or H think G-general, H-heavy. So your machine is behaving as it should. You're functioning off one pump for fine control with heavy lifting capability. So when you boom up in F , you have one pump stroking up , you have to pressurize the boom circuit to a pressure higher than what is on the plus side of the cylinder to open the holding valves and start moving cylinders. So you're lifting with one pump, and say, start to arm in or swing, that brings the other pump online as you described, so with 2 pumps working, speed is increased. All this time, I thought you were working at full throttle. Remember, F is for fine control with heavy lifting. Not for general excavation. Boost, (the thumb button) is for added breakout force in heavy frozen clay or something like that. Hope this helps.
Good day May I add a comment to this situation, one pump is asleep in "F" mode wakes up when you use the other pump I would conclude that the sleeping pump is dumping to tank through the other pumps channel, when that channel is pressurised the sleeping unit comes to life. This is a common complaint when the check valve is damage or stuck open. sorry more work its on the four spool side. Kind regards Uffex
This is making more sense. FwF - I'm still not completely convinced that my machine is behaving the way it should. I now understand and agree with you that I should be operating the machine in at least throttle position "G3" if not higher. The reason I wasn't doing this before was because I use the machine for personal use so I really never use it aggressively or for "production" - I "baby" the machine to get the most life out of it in the future. Keeping a lower RPM was working fine for me other than this issue. However I still believe there is an issue with the machine because I have experienced plenty of times when I have the throttle in F1, F2 or F3 position with the boom/stick/bucket in the air (with no material in the bucket) and when I pull back on the RCV the boom does not go up. In fact I believe there have been times that the boom actually started to lower momentarily with the RCV pulled back. To me - even if I was operating on only one pump....the boom should raise if there is no load working against it (other than its own weight). But in reference to the proper throttle position - I am certainly going to take your advice and run the machine in G3, G2 or G1 going forward. Thank you for this guidance. Uffex - Your summary above seems to fit my situation very well. Especially when you consider what I told FwF about the boom sometimes will lower momentarily when I pull back on the RCV (in F1, F2 or F3). I think this would happen in the very short moment in time when pump 2 is joining in and pressurizing the channel around the check valve. I would really like to fix this issue but I got very apprehensive when I read the bulletin and it stated to inspect this check valve I would have to split the "mono blocks of the MCV". That sounds really involved. Am I to understand that this check valve cannot be accessed from the outside of the MCV? I'm not sure I'm ready to take this kind of scenario on if it requires the entire MCV to be dismantled. Or am I not understanding this correctly and the check valve is just on the opposite side of the MCV (operators cab side rather than fuel tank side) and can be accessed from the exterior of the MCV? Thanks, Scott
Good day Scott Yes it means that you have to part the two section that is the only way to get at the valve, you can confirm my diagnostics select "f" mode if I am correct the bucket will be without power just the same as the boom. Be aware that the valve seat is formed as the main body of the mono block this needs to be serviceable. Don't be nervous you are no different from the guy that is paid to take them apart. kInd regards Uffex
Uffex - When you say " I can confirm your diagnostics select "f" mode if I am correct the bucket will be without power just the same as the boom " what you are saying is that if I have the machine in one of the "F" throttle positions and the boom fails to lift while holding the RCV back (to raise the boom) I should be able to pull the RCV to the left and, based on your theory, the bucket will not curl.....am I understanding this correctly? If the bucket does curl then the check valve that we are focused on probably is not the issue since if this check valve was defective and remained open it would dump the fluid for both boom and bucket functions therefore there would be no pressure build-up and the bucket would act just like the boom (failing to curl). If it acts the same as the boom then it really solidifies your theory.....correct? Thanks, Scott
One other question - when we talk about the "mono blocks" of the MCV - I am thinking these are (more or less) the two major chunks of machined metal that make-up basically the entire MCV...? There are a bunch of other devices and fittings attached to the MCV but the mono blocks are the two main structures that bolt together to make-up the body of the MCV. Am I correct with this?
Good day Scott You are correct on both counts the bucket remaining operational (able to rotate against an obstical and not free fall) in "F" mode's discounts my diagnostics, I would suggest switching the shock valves if you have not already done so, the term mono blocks is used to describe the MCV (Main control valve body). Maybe a check list may be helpful to work through? Kind regards Uffex
Thanks Uffex. What are the "shock valves"?
Reliefs adjacent to each function. I think what Uffex is suggesting, is to swap one with another of a neighboring function. For example arm-in with bucket dump. See if the issue follows the valve.
Personally, I don't think you have a real problem though.
Thanks Guys. FwF - I really hope your right. Even if you are not it sounds like as long as I run the throttle in a position of G3 or higher the problem should not occur....correct?
Good day guys The boom should raise in any mode from the response the fact that it does not raise is isolated to the boom only, this give rise to a couple of questions in my old mind ? 1- if you press the bucket into the ground in "F" mode what happens doe's the undercarriage raise (Is the issue boom related in one or both directions) 2 Is there any boom creep / drift has the cylinders been taken out of the question ? has the problem arrived when the pattern was changed ? Kind regards Uffex
Guys - I will be up to camp next weekend (where the machine is). I will look back through this chain of messages and go through some tests. Here is my list so far (please correct me if I have a mistake or need to add additional tests to the list): 1) Find an area that I can dig, warm up the machine and start digging like I normally would do in throttle position F1, F2 or F3. With normal digging work the machine until the issue occurs (it does not happen consistently so this might take awhile). When the machine does not lift the boom while keeping the RCV pulled back also pull it to the left to see if the curl of the bucket is affected. Should I also try to see if the right track is affected when the boom is not lifting? 2) With the RCV still pulled back (and the boom not lifting) confirm what action will "wake up" the boom. I believe activating any function on the LCV will do this but I will confirm. Should I try to wake it up with movement in either of the tracks? 3) Try to replicate the problem but instead of lifting with the boom - put the bucket flat on the ground and push down with the boom lifting the undercarriage of the machine. I do not ever remember the issue occurring during this function but I will try to replicate it. The challenging part will be getting the machine to experience the problem. I think I have mentioned this before but the problem absolutely does NOT happen every time. In fact I can go 5 or 10 minutes digging with the throttle in one of the F positions and it will be fine. Then 5 minutes later it could start acting up and fail on every dig I take....then be fine again or only occur on one of every three digs I take. Very random. I will try to respond to you guys as "real-time" as possible next weekend to give you my test results in hopes that something I report back will give you guys the info you need to point me in a certain direction. Thanks again for the help, Scott
Good day Scott No.1 The track will be affected by a sleeping pump but it will be enough to test the bucket & boom together as you suggest , in "F" mode one pump serves the three spool side the other the four spool side. No.2 I suggest forget the tracks it may fog the issue. I commend you approach to the problem making a list keeps the issue clear for all concerned. Kind regards Uffex
Hi Scott I have given your situation some thought and if this issue is isolated to the boom raise the possibilities are limited, however the one component comes to mind is that of the boom regeneration valve, this valve makes up any flow deficiency when you lower the boom. As you state you normally work the machine in "F" mode this may have the effect of causing regeneration to work some overtime (Low flow). For that reason I suggest you try the following to park the machine on top of a heap of spoil so that you may use as much of the boom cylinder stroke as possible when lowering takes place. Operate in "F" mode and full lever movement lower the boom from the fully raised position. If it is the regeneration valve the action will have one of two effects > Aggravate the issue making it obvious or if you are really lucky flush any obstruction back to the filter house. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - Now that you mention this scenario I remember the issue was the worst two times last summer....and both times I was elevated with the machine loading a dump truck. Both times I was at least 6' higher than I would normally be if I had the machine sitting directly on the ground. I think it happened at other times too but I remember really getting frustrated in these two situations since if the boom was to free-fall much more I would have slammed the bucket into the bed of the dump body. I will try to simulate your proposed test over the weekend and report back. There was one more thing that the Service Manager at my local Volvo dealership wanted me to try. I wish I could remember exactly what he told me.....but I will try: He wanted me to run a test that had something to do with the round ball-shaped "tank" located in the pump-house shown in the two attached images. I thought he said it was something to do with the "equalization valve" for the boom. He told me that all excavators sold in the US have to have an emergency routine that can be run should the machine stall out with the boom still in the air. He said that OSHA requires all equipment to settle to the ground for safety reasons even if the engine will not run. He told me to lift the boom high in the air, shut the machine completely off, turn the key back on (so the display lights up) but don't start the machine, put the safety bar up which engages the hydraulics and then push both the RCV and the LCV forward full. He said the boom should settle down onto the ground. He told me if this doesn't happen then whatever my issue is would likely be related to this. I did exactly as he instructed last weekend and NOTHING HAPPENED. The boom did not settle in the least....it stayed exactly where it was in the air. I'm sorry I don't remember more about this test process or really what the purpose of the test was. Maybe you can extract some sort of usable data from my description of the test process above....? Thanks, Scott
That only means your accumulator has gone flat or your check valve is stuck open.
Good day I cannot relate the this test to the issue you present in the thread not sure of that line of thought. Kind regards Uffex
That's good news - I could not see the relationship to my issue either.....but if you guys don't see it then I know I'm on the right track to disregard.
Uffex / FwF - I was able to start the weekend early so I made it up to camp and got the machine going (this is the first time I have run it since parking it for the winter). The bad news is the problem happened almost right away and is still very much present with the machine - the good news is that I have a lot of solid test results (everything pointing towards the the check valve between the two mono-blocks I think). Here is what I found: 1) In F1, 2 or 3 the issue happens whether I pull up on the boom or push down on it. I tried lifting the undercarriage multiple times and roughly half of the time I had to wake the pump up to lift the undercarriage. 2) The problem does not only happen with the boom - it also happens with the bucket as well. In fact I think I can make the problem happen more frequently if I'm pulling up on the boom and curling the bucket at the same time (which is commonly done when digging/loading). While I have the issue with RCV pulled back and the boom not raising going right or left with the RCV DOES NOT wake up the pump. 3) While I have the issue with RCV pulled back and the boom not raising if I perform any function on the LCV the boom/bucket comes back to life immediately. 4) While I have the issue with RCV pulled back and the boom not raising if I adjust the throttle from F2 to F3 nothing happens. As soon as I adjust from F3 to G3 immediately the problem goes away and the boom/bucket do not ever seem to fail in this throttle position (or higher I am assuming). 5) Changing the position of the "Boost" toggle switch does not seem to have any affect on the problem. 6) I do not believe that having the machine elevated changes the frequency of the issue. I think the only way I can increase the frequency is by doing what I stated in #2 which is to use the boom and bucket simultaneously. Are there any other tests you guys would like me to run while I'm here or does the data above pretty much narrow the issue to a faulty check valve between the mono-blocks? Thanks, Scott
Good day Scott FwF For me and your tests I reasonably convinced the issue is the check valve, sorry there is not an easy solution. I would study the removal of the three spool section enough to get to the back of the four spool block, leave flexible connections only take what you have to. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - What would your thoughts be if my plan was to simply run the machine in G3 throttle or higher going forward? Is the failure of that check valve going to slowly cause other issues with my machine (pre-mature pump failure, etc) or is the check valve basically a dormant circuit once the throttle goes above F3? As FwF indicated - the way I was running the machine in F2 or F3 was not how most operators run it and I think you may have even eluded to the fact that possibly pump 1 may have been working harder than it needed to with me running the machine at lower RPMs. I'm really nervous about possibly causing a more serious issue if I dismantle the mono-blocks and mess something up....and if what I was doing was not helping the lifespan of the machine in the first place then I should change my habits and run at G3 or higher. Maybe an alternate plan would be that I run it at G3 and live with the problem for now until if/when the machine has a more serious issue that may require work on the mono-blocks and then, at that time, I fix everything while I'm in there...? Thoughts? Thanks, Scott
First let me start by saying, i don't believe you have a real problem. That said, beneath the cab or just behind and below, you'll find 2 manifolds. One is pilot oil and the other is tank. each branches off and goes to each RCV and the foot pedals. Is your machine equipped with and aux spool , for example, do you have a straight line travel pedal on the left or a hammer/shear pedal on the right? If so lines will travel to each of those function controls as well. We need to inspect the oil lines feeding those manifolds on the pilot side, remove the line at both ends, and blow it out, you're looking for vinyl or rubber or any other debris. From the RCVs out to the spool caps, check those as well focusing of coarse on the right side ( boom and bucket) Next is ugly, but it has to be done, check the line from the bottom of the MCV to the pump controllers. Also there is a control line that goes from one pump , through a t fitting to the other pump. The fitting is a floating ball check valve. Make sure there is no trash holding the check ball in place. If you have the capability , check the negative control line to each pump. you should have approx 450-475 psi to each pump idling in neutral. as you pull a function that pressure should drop off as the demand is increased. The drop in control pressure is proportional to increase in flow of pump. As function reaches end of stroke, pump regulator steps in and destrokes pump but maintains pressure in circuit until you release the control to neutral. Boom up and arm in both have a 2 pump function while in motion to supply speed up oil so you don't have a slow function except when in F which is fine and heavy. It basically destrokes your pump so the horsepower is always there.
Good day well I wish Scott the negative point from your suggestion is that you will find that turning power on one track will be very weak, personally I would never be happy to operate a machine that is not up to specification. It is going to be your decision I would bite the bullet and fix the machine, I can appreciate that working for a long time as a mechanic that it is an easy statement for me to make. If it helps we can make step for step instructions and talk you through the process. By all means check the tracks out again this will confirm if my line of thought is correct. Keep safe you guys just had my second jab. Kind regards Uffex
Thank you both for your help. Here is my situation - I have planned, and I'm now gearing up, to get started on a large project for this summer. As I have said in the past my machines (the Volvo EC160BLC excavator and a Case 650G dozer) are personal "toys" that have been paid for while I'm working in hopes of having them for "entertainment" when I retire. I guess some of us never grow out of playing in the sandbox. So my project this summer is to build a 36' x 50' barn. It bugs me to have my equipment outside summer and winter up in northern Maine. I know a lot of people do it but my thoughts are if I can get the sun and weather off these machines then I think they will last a lot longer. The barn is being built, amongst other things, to store/protect the equipment. The Maine summers are short - I really have to stay focused on the project to make sure it gets done. I need the excavator to build the base of the barn. Because of this I am asking "Do you guys see anything specifically that would hurt the machine if I ran it in G3 for the foreseeable future?" I don't have the time right now (and honestly the courage) to take on a tear-down/re-build of the MCV. If you know specifically that there is a risk to running it this way then I either need to postpone my project for a year or hire out the dirt work which would be a shame with this equipment sitting here. Uffex - I agree with you - it will bug me that the machine is not perfect and could be if I fixed this issue....we share that same thought. However, based on what I wrote above I will need to put that aside for at least this summer. Beyond answering the specific question asked above could you remind me why one of the tracks will be weaker? I understand that each track is fed off a different pump (right off P-1 and left off P-2 I think) but where I lose you is why would one of the tracks be weaker (presumably the right track) if at G3 the two pumps combine on any function? Or is the combining of pumps only for boom functions? Both of my tracks are a little weak in F1, 2 or 3 but when I am in G3 or higher they run fine. I always try to pick up the undercarriage on corners as I have been told this will dramatically increase the lifespan of the planetaries and it is good for the overall health of the machine. Do you think it is worth me running the track test again (measure the time it take for three rotations of the tracks and compare)? If they measured like they did 6 months ago (less than 1/10 of a second difference between the two) does this change your feelings on the check valve you suspect bad? Should I just try to sense if one track is weaker than the other over the summer? Thanks, Scott
Good day Scott In "F" mode you only receive one pump for the boom "G" mode and above you receive both pumps for the boom, in your situation you cannot choose to operate the boom in "F" mode unless you are using the arm or swing see attached yellow area. Further tests are up to you but from your response I believe we have the answer. Will any harm come of ignoring the issue? the truth is I cannot answer but I suggest have the parts at hand when the barn is up. Good luck and take care Uffex
Thanks Uffex. I came home and wanted to do the research to determine exactly what the part numbers were for the check valve plug, valve & spring before a couple months go by and my memory of what we discussed fades.....but I'm getting confused. I thought you had indicated that this check valve would be located in the three spool mono-block (which I believe is the block closer to the fuel tank) but my manual is not agreeing with this. Attached is a screen shot of the MCV in the Service Manual. This is a view from the front of the machine looking over the top of the swing motor directly at the MCV. The three spool mono-block is on the left - four spool on the right. Pay close attention to the "G-G" cut-away view (upper right area on the top of the right-hand mono-block). The second image is a screen shot of the "G-G" cut-away view. This view matches perfectly with the PDF you attached in your post above. From what I am seeing - the check valve that we are focusing on as the source of my problem is causing issues with the functions of the three spool mono-block but the valve itself is located in the four spool mono-block....? Is this correct? And I think your suggestion was to attempt to unbolt the mono-blocks from each other and move the three spool mono-block out of the way enough to be able to remove the plug holding the suspected check valve in place? Are there a lot of ports connecting between the two mono-blocks? All with O-rings (or some sort of seal) that could get messed up when the blocks are mated together again? My parts manual is often very difficult to determine the exact part numbers. I think I found the parts but it's really a guess on my part: 7273-10330 Cap 9566-10210 Ring 9511-12021 O-Ring 7273-10480 Spring 7273-10070 Check Valve
Good day Scott The valve that is allowing the pump passage to tank is that in the four spool section at the top, this line is connected to tank if the four spool side is idle. There are seals between the two sections my experience is that these will normally stay in place. We have made another illustration that may help see attached, if and when you make the work a photo or two would help us in the future as we do not have any on file. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex, FWF or anyone else - A quick question for you on a completely different issue on my 2005 Volvo EC160BLC - could you guys give me a hint as to where the valve is that controls my quick connect piston? I'm assuming this is an electric solenoid type valve that reverses the hydraulic pressure in the small lines that lead to the Q-C cylinder just above the bucket....? This assumption is based on the fact that to reverse the hydraulic flow I think the operator is supposed to push two electrical toggle switches in the cab. I have not traced the lines back yet (as the machine is still up in ME). I'm hoping the valve is not part of the main valve body. I have taken a look in my electronic service manual but (not surprising) I didn't find anything right off. If you are curious I can explain the situation more but, in short, the previous owner said the dual toggle switch system didn't work so he came up with a much more "rudimentary" way to switch buckets. It works but it also creates a weak link in the hydraulic system and more opportunities for leaks. I can start a new thread if this discussion goes more than one or two exchanges. Thanks, Scott
Any chance you can take a pic of this "rudimentary solution " or explain a little? The valve is usually mounted at the boom foot on the superstructure. Theres different plumbing for different couplers. Do you have a pin grabber or a wedge coupler like an S4 I think . Is it a Volvo coupler or aftermarket? Pics pics pics.
FWF - It is a stock (wedge) coupler. I don't have any pics (not up there right now) but I think I found the correct section in the service manual. I'm trying to make sense of it now. In short - according to the previous owner the two momentary coupler switches in the cab stopped working. In true "yankee mentality" he simply installed matching hydraulic coupler fittings in the two lines just above the quick-coupler assembly out on the stick. To change buckets you simply shut off the excavator, run out to the bucket and swap the two lines then start the machine back up again. The bucket comes free and you manipulate the boom/Q-C to the next bucket, shut the machine off, re-connect the lines back to the original configuration and start the machine back up again. The hydraulic cylinder inside the Q-C re-energizes the wedge and I'm off and running. I have to admit - it works and he probably spent $20 on the fix instead of a ridiculous amount to pay Volvo to trouble-shoot the issue and replace parts. The only issue is that the lines and hydraulic couplings out on the stick take a beating and leak often. I was thinking of doing something a little more "refined" than what is there now but probably nowhere near what the original "dual toggle switch, computer involved, audible alerting" configuration was. I was either going to figure out how to re-wire the solenoid (solenoid #4 in the attached pics) to a toggle switch in the cab to turn it on/off manually (based on a DC electrical solution) or purchase a 4 way rotary directional hydraulic valve (like the one linked below) to swap the hydraulic pressure between the two lines going to the Q-C manually (based on a hydraulic re-direction solution). This rotary hydraulic valve may even be able to be mounted in the cab so that it looks like I'm somewhat more of a professional operator (admittedly it would be a completely false image). https://summit-hydraulics.com/produ...alve-4-way-closed-center-24-gpm-10-sae-ports/
Hi Scoitt Please see attached if you need more help you know where to find us. Kind regards Uffex
Good day folks A little better explanation. Kind regards Uffex
I attached a parts breakdown showing the upper installation. My apologies for pointing you in the wrong direction. The valve is behind the cab as shown. Disregard any info referencing UQF as that system runs on pilot alone. SQF requires raised pressure from holding bucket over relief to achieve unlock.
A little more for your reading assignment. 9x outta 10 the solenoid has failed.
Uffex / FWF - Thank you both for your info. It was good to see the Q-C design in a different format than my service manual so that I am more confident that I understand it. I did have two questions for you guys: 1) It appears to me that the Q-C wedge locking control box uses pilot pressure to hold the wedge hydraulic piston in the extended (or locked) position but in the opposite function instead of reversing pilot pressure it looks like Volvo used high pressure to overcome the pilot pressure to put the Q-C wedge piston in the retracted position. I'm not sure why they would have done this - seems to me it would have been easier to simply reverse the pilot pressure to release the bucket.....? 2) You guys know my situation by now - my machine is for personal use only and I try to use it more than I work on it. That being said I'm not incredibly motivated to figure out exactly what component(s) went bad so that I can restore the Q-C operational functionality back to factory standards....but instead would like to implement a solution that is simple and will work for years into the future. If I were to intercept the A & B hydraulic lines when they leave the Q-C locking control box (behind the cab) and pipe the incoming and outgoing connections into a 4 way directional hydraulic valve in the cab do you see any potential concerns (operational or safety - now and in the future)? Do you see an issue with using pilot pressure to both extend and retract the Q-C piston? I wouldn't think it would matter much. In fact if Volvo wanted to use pilot pressure and high pressure (for whatever reason) I would have thought they would have used high pressure to keep the bucket secured and pilot pressure to release it. Seems more important that the bucket stay in place rather than using high pressure to remove it. Thanks, Scott
Good day Scott 1/ Holding the coupler locked the system makes use of Pilot pressure + spring working on the larger surface area of the cylinder piston. Releasing the coupler makes use of a smaller surface area (Area minus piston rod diameter) the lower pressure of the pilot pump would not be enough to release, while the machine works the locking will creep tighter & tighter. (no chance for pilot pressure to release). To introduce high pressure you have to curl the bucket to its full extreme, if it does not release press the pressure boost 350 bars or use "F' mode. 2/ If I may suggest sticking with the Volvo system it has safety approval in many markets, the electrics give both audible and visual warning of coupler release. It is proven reliable, and you have after market support for the installation. Many users try to drive couplers free with hammers, simply because there has been little understanding of how the system has been designed to work. The full extension of the bucket cylinder maintains attachment, allowing the tool to be deposited safely. If I can find operation instruction for such devices, I will post those to you. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - I understand what you are saying but I am thoroughly confused how my Q-C is working now. The previous owner just has me swapping the lines out at the stick right above the Q-C (no change of buttons in the cab). It works every time no matter how long a bucket has been attached to the Q-C and when the bucket is attached it is on there with very little chance of coming off. When I want to take the bucket off (like I did this weekend) I switch the lines and wiggle the bucket slightly and off it comes within 3-5 seconds. Your post indicates that it would not work at all.....? Am I missing something because no matter which way I think about it - I am only using pilot pressure to engage or release the wedge within the Q-C with my current configuration.....? Thanks, Scott
To begin with, in the lock cylinder is a pilot to shift check valve. The valve is held locked until oil is tapped off B port unseating one way check valve at port A, allowing lock cylinder oil to escape through port A. That's what keeps it locked and allows unlocking only when you tell it. Now, simply switching hoses shouldn't accomplish what you're doing. Raised pressure is never entering the unlock function since the logic valve is not shifting, since the solenoid is not energized. The only way I can see this working is if there is an obstruction of the B line along the stick and boom. This would cause a back pressure shifting the logic valve. But i just don't see it , not reliably working every time. I'm suspicious that the previous owner hooked P3 hose to port Ps and vice versa. That, that would work every time without fail. To start with, I would verify power to the solenoid when the switches are activated. Does the alarm and central warning come on? Electric schematics can be uploaded if need be. I would also trace the hoses to the valve from pilot manifold and main control valve. If those hoses are switched, that would partially explain why it doesn't work, pilot oil will never offset raised main. Main pressure always ready to work, will work every time, until the cylinder fails. I hope this makes sense.
You've lost me..... I've got 3 generations of JRB, two generation of JBHendrix, 3 generations of Caterpillar, Geith and Strickland couplers. If I reverse the hoses on any of them (and I know that I have on most every machine here), the cylinder will operate in the opposite direction.
Good day Scott May I suggest we begin with making the system as intended I believe that is FwF is also driving at. Switching hose connections is not a good idea if you would like step for step instruction we can make for you that will take a little time I suggest splitting the instructions in three parts !- Electrics 2- Hydraulics 3- operation. This may prevent information overload and confusion. Kind regards Uffex
JRBs. Geith and Hendrix are pin grabbers and rely on mechanical locking devices. Volvo S series traps hydraulic oil in the wedge cylinder. JRBs are similar except that the lock valve is in the solenoid valve, not the cylinder. If you blow the A hose, there's nothing keeping your attachment on but the mechanical lock. On Volvo S series, the wedge essentially locks itself in with the taper, additionally there is the spring inside. If you peek at some of the uploads, you'll see what I'm describing in the schematics. Volvo is Volvo, they'll always be different than what you think.
Good day Scott Take a look at page No.1 of the ops. information, if the solenoid valve has 24Volts and all the alarms work we can say the electrics are OK. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex - Thank you for this document - this seems to be a very straightforward procedure. I'm not sure if you remember this but last spring I mentioned to you and FWF that I was planning to build a pole barn to store the excavator in to try to extend its lifespan well into my retirement. Well...I completed that barn this summer and now the excavator is parked inside for the winter. For a couple reasons I decided to drop the bucket off the machine and store it thru the winter with the coupler resting on a 2" plank on the floor of the barn. My point is that I don't have an actual bucket on the machine. I'm assuming this is no big deal ad I can lift the boom/stick and visually inspect to see if the wedge piston has extended/retracted properly.....correct? I mean it's not ideal but I should be able to do the majority of troubleshooting regardless of having a bucket or not....correct? Just as a point of interest (and some bragging rights) I have attached a pic of the barn and the machines inside. Kind of proud of the building - it came out alright. 36' x 48' with 14' tall ceilings and a 9 pitch on the roof to shed the snowload up here.
Good day Scott That is indeed a awesome barn you have every right to be extremely proud, in answer to your point regarding having a bucket, you should be able to check it as you describe by visual inspection of operation. The hydraulics may require a pressure gauge to check that connections are correct. I believe that quick coupler you have has a small bar pointer on the drivers side to give additional indication of the locking mechanism. Kind regards Uffex
Some additional information with regards to quick couplers may be of interest. Kind regards Uffex
Hey new to the group, i just purchased the Volvo 160BLC. The information shared on the quick coupler is great! Does anyone have the Operator or Service Manual that they can share with the group?
Good day & Welcome Service manual may be tricky you have a good guy subscribing on Volvo machine's FunWithFuel if you need help he is a mine of information. Operation manual I have parts do you have any specific parts I can help out with.(SLC ?) Kind regards Uffex
Hey i appreciate all the help and info! if you do have the operation manual that would be amazing! I am going to start going through the machine and see what it is needing. Seems to function pretty well at the moment
Good day If you need the official Volvo manual go to excatech.org fill in a request on the contact page, your request will be searched for a automatically. Kind regards Uffex
Thank you for the document! I went to the contact page and i couldnt get it to submit.
Good day Thank you for that Feller I will sort it in due course. Kind regards Uffex