Guys - I have a 2005 Volvo EC160BLC and I've just installed a Rockland thumb. When I purchased the machine (used) it already had the optional hydraulics to the end of the stick as the previous owner primarily used the machine with a grading (4 way) bucket. I want to make sure the pressure relief valve for the optional hydraulic circuit is set less than the bucket curl circuit to avoid damaging either piston.....but even with the manual I am having a heck of a time figuring out where the relief valve(s) is....or if there even is a traditional relief valve that I can adjust. Are there any guys out there who are good with Volvos that may be able to help me figure this one out? It gets very confusing as the manual dives into shear/hammer operational circuits and a bunch of other stuff. I am assuming I want to operate the optional circuit in the shear mode (based on the toggle switch in the cab) as opposed to the hammer mode. Any help would really be appreciated. Thanks, Scott
I have found the attached images in the manual. It appears that maybe the optional hydraulic pressure relief valve is a two stage relief valve....? In the first image 8 is the "Option Relief Valve" for the Option circuit which I believe is represented by AL2/al2. The second image calls out the AL2/al2 main valve location. All of this is really me guessing by what I am trying to understand in the manual. I could be way off.
please see the attached installation instructions page 2 . You will see the 2 nipples, particularly Pd . That should be the 2 stage relief for the hammer shear function. So on the back side , there is a simple relief valve beside the spool cap. That should control pressure to the R/S of the stick. On the front side is the 2 stage , that will control pressure to the L/S of the stick. In hammer mode, there is no oil to the tip of the relief, in shear mode , oil is applied to the tip of the relief, raising the unload pressure. This can be adjusted down. You must be in shear mode. You loosen and leave the fitting/hose attached. You bottom out the outer adjustment , then adjust the inner until you reach 2500 psi under application. (Rockland recommends 2500) I would go a little less to account for cold oil. Don't forget to adjust the relief in the back as well to 2500 for the opposite function. I am assuming that you have gauges and the experience to carry out this operation safely. I do not know you or your skill level. I urge caution, know your capabilities . If you haven't performed this procedure before or are unclear, please seek a dealer tech. It's too easy to make a mistake that could result in injury or death. Good luck and please report how things worked out for you. Oh BTW flow can be adjusted either by a potentiometer in the right armrest or in the display panel depending which generation of B series you have.
FwF - I'll be honest with you....I have no gauges and very little experience working on the main valve body of an excavator. I do however have a decent amount of mechanical knowledge. You helped me a few months back with a swing motor question about a rhythmic thumping in my swing motor and hydraulic oil coming up out of the gearbox dipstick and (with a little bit of help) I was able to tear it down, re-build it and re-install the swing motor into my 160 and it works perfectly now. Also, without experience, I have re-built the quick-connect bucket hydraulic piston, re-built the four valves in the travel pedals, replaced a front idler and installed a new set of tracks on my 160. It's not that I enjoy risking my life doing stuff I don't have experience with....but rather the fact that the machine is way up in northwest Maine and I believe it would be $800 - $1,000 just to get a Volvo tech on-site and then additional charges for whatever he does when he gets there. This machine is for personal use so I just cannot afford to spend that kind of money on it with no money coming in. That being said I have found many times that there is the right way to do things (as you often wisely suggest on this forum) and then there may be a way to get things done that requires a few less resources (and a a lot less $$). I'm hoping you can put yourself in my shoes for a little bit and maybe give me just a little guidance under the second scenario....but if not - I understand. Let's start over with this and maybe go a different route - as mentioned the previous owner of my machine used it primarily with a 4 way grading bucket. I spoke to a few guys in the industry and they indicated that if the aux hydraulics are/were being used on a grading bucket that likely uses pistons with rods the were between 1" - 1.5" then someone had to have already adjusted the relief valves down to something less than 2500 psi otherwise it would have blown the bucket cylinders apart a long time ago. That seems to make sense to me. This is idea #1. Idea #2 (once again provided by folks in the business) is that, once I have the thumb plumbed, I should run the machine no more than idle and gently apply pressure from the bucket to the thumb. They thought that more than likely the bucket would push the thumb back indicating that the thumb relief valve was already at a reduced setting. They told me to operate everything very gently while doing this and most likely I would not hurt anything with my gentle testing. Idea #3 (My own theory) My Rockland thumb is oversized for my machine (I have a 38K pound machine and the thumb came off a 62K pound machine - Cat 325). Beggars can't be choosers when shopping in the used market so I purchased this thumb at a REALLY good price knowing it was bigger than I needed but thinking maybe it will last a while and I won't break it. The rod on the thumb piston is around 3" which is just about the same size as the rod on my bucket curl piston. I would think that having equal sized rods may give me a little room to make mistakes during this process before something breaks (if I don't get the desired results on the first try). If these theories do not pan-out I will have either broken something or come to a decision that I will need to learn more about how to set the aux hydraulic circuit relief valves. Can you offer some thoughts on the three theories and my situation as a whole? Thanks, Scott
Rockland thumb on the Volvo 160.
Well, that's quite a thumb. Don't be fooled by size and diameter. If you've got a 6" ram vs a 1-1/2" ram one's going to have a whole lot more "holding" strength than the other. So it won't yield as quickly even though the pressure is the same. At the least, I would recommend getting a set of gauges off the ebay. Analog is fine, in fact I prefer them. You really need to know what pressure you're working with. I don't agree with the gentle working one against the other scenario. You could easily bend the rod or break the piston. Worst case, score the bore and send debris through the system. I see a cheap Chinese kit with hoses for $52 &free shipping. Then you will have them for future needs. It's your machine and you're obviously willing to get into it. Please take the time to get a set of gauges. Then I and others here, we'll help you get squared away. With a set of gauges and your tracks, you can pretty much troubleshoot the entire hydraulic system or get a good snapshot of the machines overall health. Does your plumbing have a 3 way valve at the foot of the boom on the right side? It should if you have bi-directional flow. Or does it go straight back to the main control valve? On your pumps, right next to the discharge hoses, should be 2 test fittings. Please measure the thread pitch. Early B-series had 1.5 mm thread pitch, later on up to current use the more common 2.0 mm thread Good luck, and we're here to help.
I bought a set like this one on Amazon. the hoses are pretty useless but the adapters with all of the different thread sizes are priceless. also the set I bought the hoses were specific to the gauge but I really bought it for the adapters. Somewhere in here is a thread where FWF. helped me with the same issue. If I can find it I will post the link. https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Hydrau...d=1593654617&sprefix=hydraulic+gauge+&sr=8-15
FwF - I'm ordering a kit tonight. I'm finding it a bit difficult to find kits that say they work on Volvo (specifically) but this one seems to have a good mix of standard and metric fittings and the outer gauge readings (easier to read) are in PSI which I think I would be involved with more than BAR. Your thoughts on: https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Ver.../dp/B01JLI194W/ref=psdc_3754111_t1_B07T56TYMF $80 on Amazon with free (Prime) shipping. You mention 1.5mm and 2.0mm thread pitch.....beyond the thread pitch - do you know what the size of the test ports are on the Volvo? I'm trying to determine if this kit would have what I need or if I should be looking for a different kit or additional adapters right off. I'm not sure on the 3-way valve that you are asking about at the foot of the boom on the right side. I will be up north on Friday and can answer that question, take some pics and reply with another post then. BTW - when you say "right side of the boom" that would be as if I was sitting in the operator's seat....correct? So the right side is towards the fuel/hydraulic tanks and the left side is towards the operator's cab.....correct? Also - in the image below - are the red arrows pointing to the test ports you describe on the pump? One last thing - below is an image of the info plate on my machine. Thanks, Scott
Paul - Your kit is still available on Amazon. It definitely has more fittings than the one I was looking at. If you guys think that is the kit to get - I'll order it up. Or if there is something that is $150 or less I'd order whatever the group's consensus is.
G.P.M. Flow rate EC250E Volvo excavator? This is the thread I was speaking of earlier.
10mm and 14mm is what I had used the most on Volvo. I don't remember the thread pitch of the top of my head.
You will want to have help with you when doing this or find some longer hoses. The hoses in the Kits are only 2'.
As Paul said, those hoses are short. You gotta be right on top of the pumps. Yes, your red arrows are in the right spot. Those fittings are where the confusion comes in. The exposed part that the test hose threads onto, those were the ones that sometimes had a fine (1.5mm) thread vs the more common 2.0mm thread. The kits you are looking at are going to serve you fine. Ideally, you would want a kit with two 15ft hoses, two 7k psi gauges and a 600 psi gauge. I understand the need to be "frugal" . Nothing wrong with that. I respect that it doesn't put you 'off' Yes, I consider left and right as you are sitting in the machine.
I forgot about that. Must be getting old. Upta, I also forgot about your swing problem. You guys better get all you can outta what's left in my noggin, might not be there tomorrow. Getting old sucks.
OK guys - I have some answers and, of course, more questions. Thread pitch of the sample/test ports on the pump : They are 1.5 and not 2.0. Please see the first attached pic. 3-way valve on the right side of boom : I do in fact have a 3-way valve on one of the two aux lines as they arrive at the base of the boom. I have no idea what it is for.....but I get the feeling I am about to learn. See image #2 & 3. Relief valves for the aux hydraulic circuit : Image #4 is taken with the top step/guard removed. I'm thinking the red arrow is pointing to the two stage relief valve that controls the aux line down the left side of the boom (in my case the line that pushes the thumb) and the yellow arrow controls the single stage pressure in the line that runs down the right side of the boom. We connected the lines I just had built to the thumb and ran the thumb (with the bucket fully retracted so we could not touch it). I was really surprised how well it ran - nice and smooth and very responsive. Not jerky fast or sluggish at all. I'm hoping the circuits are about where they need to be with pressure since the thing ran like a dream.....but once my gauges arrive (Monday) I am ready to take advice from you guys as to how to do this the right way (correct procedure) so I'm not forever just hoping that the pressures are right. One more thing - my attempt to relocate my quick-connect fittings from the bottom of the aux shut-off valve on the stick to the block just upstream from the shut-off valve did not go well. I thought for sure that the male fitting on the block was a JIC-10 but I could not look at it because the fluid would dump out quickly so I purchased the JIC-10 females only to find out when I took the fitting off that it wasn't. It was close since the threads seemed to be the same but the mating surfaces were opposite of each other. Meaning - a female JIC fitting is a concave taper and the male JIC is a convex taper. This was a male fitting that had a concave tamper. Does anyone know what type of fitting this is? Or should I stop by the Volvo shop and ask them? Image #5 shows the block and image #6 shows the male fitting on the block. Image #7 shows the male cap that was on this unused fitting that I want to use for my grading bucket. The system told me I can only attach four images so I will post this and then attach images 5, 6 & 7 to another post.
Images 5, 6 & 7. Image # 8 is a wider view of my valve body/swing motor/boom base area.
So, pic 1, you'll have to change out the test fittings, they won't work with your new gauges. Small hurdle, just be aware. Pic 2 /3 that valve redirects oil. In hammer operation, oil goes back to tank directly or through a filter(option). In shear operation, oil is directed back to main control valve so that bi-directional flow can be established. Pic 4 , on the money. 2 stage to the front, simple to the rear. Pic 5,6 &7 them is BSPP aka British standard parallel pipe.
Pics are always 'preciated!
FwF - Thanks for the info. I have never heard of BSPP but I have now. What is the sizing of BSPP? The JIC-10 threads seemed to be very close but the whole fitting was loose after threading it on a ways. I'm (obviously) up north this weekend with the excavator. The plan is to receive the gauges on Monday and return back up north next weekend and, with any luck, be able to actually operate the machine. I bought the 160 late last summer (getting a good deal but knowing I had to fix some things) so it has been 9 months of working on a bunch of small and medium sized issues in hopes of getting a machine that will be dependable going forward. It is now completely dry (no leaks at all), got new (used) tracks, a working swing motor, a new (used) thumb and is now finally ready to go. I really look forward to sitting in the operator seat rather than laying underneath it. I was hoping to ask you a favor - any chance you could give me some guidance on two things ahead of time? 1) You mentioned that I will need to change out the test port fittings to work with my gauge. I would like to understand what fittings I need to purchase and do that prior to returning next weekend. Also - can I remove those fittings (with the engine off) and put the new fitting in without a creating a huge mess of hydraulic fluid? I'm thinking that I certainly cannot take the old fitting with me this weekend (without finding a plug) as it will likely leak all week long so I will have to know what I need. 2) Could we start to discuss the process that you would recommend I do to set the pressure relief on my thumb? If I could start to think the process through in my head I will be better prepared for next weekend. I'm assuming one of the two pumps is responsible for the aux hydraulic circuit and I put the gauge on that circuit. I will have someone extend the thumb to the end of the stroke and then watch the gauge as my helper again pushes the pedal to extend the thumb but the piston will be against its stop so it will have to engage the pressure relief. At that point my gauge should read what the pressure relief is set to on the front of the valve body leading to the L/S of the boom. I then would adjust one of the two stage nuts on the front relief valve to get to just shy of 2500 psi. Repeat the process but with the thumb in the parked (opposite) position and set the relief on the rear single stage relief valve. Am I anywhere near correct with the process? Thanks, Scott
Yes, yer pretty close. What I do, to protect the implement, is shut off the stick valves. (The blocks with the 1/4 turn shut offs) then I run the option. This way you only deadhead against the valve, no chance of hurting the cylinder . I will look up the part number and see if I can find a description for the test fittings or what they superceded to. If you vent the tank, ie take the pressure off, the fitting swap will go much smoother than not. On top of your hydraulic tank should be a little black rubber cap somewhere. Press the top of the rubber boot, hold it there till she stops hissing. It doesn't take more than thumb pressure so, no biggie. Have your function in hammer mode before you do this and that will relieve pressure on the right side pipe for the BSPP fitting as well. Have a bucket ready, there will still be oil in the line. It helps to have the arm and boom layed out as low as possible, less gravity working lower. The dash number or diameter is still the same between JIC/BSPP/JIS. They'r looking at ID of hose so -4=1/4" , -6=3/8 and up. So your -10 should still be -10 just now in BSPP or 5/8 pipe not to be confused with american pipe. Thread pitch is a smidge different making for miserable fitting selection.
Oh BTW happy 4th
Hope everyone had a good Fourth of July weekend. I went to Volvo today and they sold me two adapters (but I'm thinking I only needed one). One was in stock and the other I pick up on Friday. They said it is much cheaper and easier to adapt the test fittings on my pump rather than replace them. They sold me a 11666027 but I think this adapter goes from the second adapter I am buying to their preferred gauge set. The second item (which I don't have yet) is a 11666023. I think this adapter converts from the 1.5 thread on the pump now to a 2.0 thread that my gauges already have on one end of their 60" lines. This second adapter should be the one I need and was not included in my gauge set. BTW - my gauges came in today and they look pretty decent. FwF - Related to setting the relief pressure in the aux circuit based on the pics we have already reviewed (location of correct relief valves) and referring to the attached image - from what I see in the shop manual to adjust the high pressure relief....I loosen the hydraulic line at the tip of the relief valve, then loosen lock nut #2, then turn screw #1 all the way tight, then loosen lock nut #4 then adjust screw #3 in or out 1/4 turn if I want to bump the pressure up or down by 1,365 psi. Once I have it set I lock the adjustment down by tightening lock nut #4. A couple comments: 1) That seems like a really touchy adjustment (1,300 psi in a quarter turn). Maybe this is where you said things could get dangerous if you don't know what you are doing....? I will be very careful and just make tiny adjustments and then check my gauge each time. 2) Isn't there going to be fluid coming out of the line attached to the end of the relief valve if it is loose or only if I retract the thumb? You had mentioned to loosen it and then adjust the relief valve but the manual says to disconnect the line completely and plug it. Not sure if I would have the correct plug/cap to do that. 3) What do I do with the "low limit" screw? Should I be setting that to something after I have my "high limit" set? I have no intentions of ever running a hammer on this machine - not sure if that matters but I wanted to mention that. Also - the BSPP fittings are proving to be a bit of a challenge. Volvo didn't have any in stock and suggested I go to a hydraulic store. I stopped at two today and neither have any female BSPP-10 fittings. I am trying a third (larger store) tomorrow. Thanks, Scott
Blue circle is where you want to check your pressures on the left side of the arm. Red circle is where you should connect the thumb. Green circle is the shut off valve so that you can remove hoses and not have oil draining from the line. You will need to adapt your gauges to the blue circle. But from there you can't stop the oil from draining when you remove that fitting unless you find something to plug it. I would check the pressure before you make any adjustments. You may have the correct pressure already.
I'm dealing with port relief valves on a John Deere backhoe now. It isn't system pressure you need to address. Thumb moves to position with protected system pressure. Squeeze too hard against it with the bucket, it'll raise pressure above protected system pressure. A hydraulic shop sold me a externally mounted valve to vent excess pressure to the other side of the piston. ' My John Deere backhoe has Port relief valves. They take hose pressure send it back to the filter. Imagine a backhoe boom lifting on 3500 lbs pressure, then, valves close, you extent crowd & dipper fully loaded. Leverage against that cylinder would raise pressure above pumped system pressure, It vents at 4500 LBS. The Case solution is a pressure relief in the actual piston.
Ok, you won't be on the low side at all, you'll be on the high side. Crank in the low side, bottom it out then back it off a hair. Then adjust the high side to 2500 psi as read on the pump discharge test fitting. You will need a helper to pull the function so you can make your adjustments. Remember shear mode uses high side of 2 stage port relief. Then adjust single stage on back side of valve for "open" function.
OK - that makes sense. I was getting confused with the idea that we are now going to try to measure pressure out on the stick - I was under the impression that we were sticking to the pump discharge test fittings. I'm assuming the suggestions about connecting my gauges to the BSPP fitting above the shut-off on the stick is just another way to perform the same test....? Setting the same relief valve just taking the pressure at a different location......which I would need even more fittings for since my gauge kit doesn't have anything even close to fitting that port. Also - do I need to be concerned with the small tip-mounted relief valve hydraulic line leaking or it will be fine loosened? I'm making all of these adjustments with the engine/pump running....correct? I don't shut it down between tests.
Meaning I don't shut it down, make the adjustment on the relief valve and then turn it back on and take the measurement.....or do I?
I never shut down in between, it is recommended that you do. There will be dribble at the loose fitting, but not a gusher. We're only looking at 450 psi. If it's a concern, place a rag around it. You are only loosening the fitting enough to allow the relief to turn without twisting the line. If you were running a motorized implement on the stick, or something with significant flow, we'd be checking at the stick for sure, but we'd also be using a flow meter, we're not, so we won't. Tiny increments make decent changes. I almost forgot. Draw a line down your relief with a paint pen. When you are done with the high side, go and put the low side where it was. Doesn't have to be perfect, just close. That way the low side is available to you in the future should you need it.
Thanks FwF. A couple more questions I thought of today: 1) The manual says that the P1 (PL) pump is nearer the engine and supports the slew motor, arm cylinder, left track motor and the OPTION DIGGING UNIT . My guess is this is the port that I want my gauge on to check the pressure when I operate the thumb with the shut-off valve on the stick turned to off (deadheaded). P2 (PR) pump is further away from the motor (closer to the access door) and it supports the boom cylinder, bucket cylinder and right track motor - I should not be doing anything with this test port related to the thumb circuit. Does this sound right? 2) What engine speed (RPM) should I set the machine at when testing/adjusting the thumb relief valve (if adjustment is needed)? 3) With the engine running but none of the hydraulic controls being active - what will my gauge read that is connected to the test port of P1? 4) Assuming the thumb relief valve is already set to some reasonable pressure - how long can I apply the thumb pedal without doing damage (as the circuit will be deadheaded)? Meaning am I only supposed to activate it for less than a second or can I hold it for a couple seconds to get a good reading on the gauge? Is this something to be nervous about? 5) My gauges are 4,000, 6,000 & 10,000 psi. I would think that I should start with the largest and then make sure the pressure is within the 4,000 psi range before putting that gauge on to get the best granularity on the exact pressure for the final setting....? Or do the gauges have protection against over-pressurization? 6) While I have the gauges out - should I be checking the pressure of any other hydraulic circuit to establish some confidence in the health of my machine? Thanks, Scott
I would suggest just checking the pressures before trying to make any adjustments. You stated this had a tilting bucket before so the reliefs may have been set down from OEM settings. If they are already set at 2500psi there is no need to make any adjustments. If you go messing around first then you will have to correct what you have changed.
Agreed Ben. I'm really hoping the pressures are where they need to be so my weekend gets a lot easier. I can just get to work and see if all the time and money pays off with this machine. But.....with my luck the pressure is off a bit and I'll have to adjust it. Either way I want to make sure I understand it so when I get up north I can finally run the excavator without worrying I'll bend a rod. It's been a long time that I have been working on this machine - better part of 9 months (a bunch of small things). I am going to finally enjoy operating it rather than laying underneath it.
Rule of thumb, with a Volvo. As you sit in the machine, left pedal and lever run by left pump. Right pedal and lever supplied by right. So yeah, you wanna be on pump 1. Always set pressure at full throttle. Running with no request for work will yield standby pressure, I don't have the spec in front of me but it will be a low value 2-300 psi iirc. The relief is there to prevent harm from occurring. You dont want to sit there for 2 minutes, but 15-20 seconds at a time is fine. Any more and you're just generating a lot of heat. I would start w/ the 6k gauge. I will find a spec sheet for you,
if your inclined to check everything, here are what you should see.
Hey Guys - Great news - things went very well with measuring and adjusting the hydraulic pressure on my aux (thumb) circuit. Here is how it went: I put my gauge on the test port of P1 and started the machine. The pressure at idle is around 500psi. It climbs to around 600psi at full throttle. After dead-heading the valves on the stick I stepped on the thumb retract pedal and the gauge went to 2900psi. I stepped on the thumb extend pedal and the gauge went to 3900psi. I have no idea why Volvo (or anyone else) would have those pressures set to run a grading bucket that has the same size pistons on either side of it. So I worked the front (2 stage) relief valve first exactly as FwF indicated and hit it on the first try. After tightening everything back down my thumb extend pressure now sits between 2400 & 2500psi. For whatever reason the needle shakes a bit when the aux relief valve is engaged but it's no biggie - it only fluctuates on the needle less than 100psi. I went after the rear valve next which was a little tougher as I had to loosen some hydraulic lines to move them out of the way to get to the rear adjustment which I learned was an allen wrench. This time it took me a couple attempts but finally go the pressure to be identical as the front valve. Again the needle fluctuated but only by 100psi. I tested the thumb and it works great. I want to thank you guys a bunch for the help. It really was a good feeling to not only know that the thumb is working the way it should but to know how and why it is working that way. $79 in a gauge kit, $40 in hydraulic test port adapters and priceless knowledge shared by you guys.....and now I'm in good shape. Thanks again, Scott
Glad everything worked out.
I’ve been trying to go the same thing on my Volvo 240b but I seem to be having issues. I got the right side of the stick hood to go but when I got to the left it won’t go over 1000 psi and will not hold pressure as soon as I let off the button. Does anyone have any advice? I’ve tried adjusting the valve in every position and way possible
Welcome Travis. Im assuming you have gauges. Back to basics. Have you checked your pressure with the circuit deadheaded against closed valves? Let's start there. And , lets have you swing by new member introductions and get a fresh thread started. You'll get more eyes looking at a new thread vs a dug up zombie thread.
Please, can someone tell me what type of oil is needed in the swing gearbox for the Volvo EC160 BLC THANKS
Welcome to the forums. Stop by new member introductions and tell us about yourself. 75w90
Your swing motor actually has 2 separate self contained systems. The lubricant for the drive system is part of your over-all hydraulic fluid system so you are not concerned with that. The actual lubricant oil for the swing motor (which is measured by the dipstick) is just a 90 weight gear oil like you would use for the rear end of an old dump truck. I think the only function of this oil is to lubricate the planetary gears at the lower end of the swing motor / gearbox. I do not believe this lubricant is too specific as these gears are not constantly in motion.