I'm in the market for a better used semi tractor. It will be used as a local haul/farm truck. Half of its time will be on gravel roads. Of what I have now and like would be a day cab Freightliner, big engine, air ride. Manual shift is fine, none of my drivers have a transmission restriction. I like to buy trucks and drive them until they die, so I would like something with good reliability. Freightliner isn't a requirement, its just they seem to be 2/3 the price for the same important components. I'm unfamiliar with what is out there now. My newest truck is a 2007, and it was bought over 10 years ago. Whats good, whats so-so, and what to stay away from?
It's all a roll of the dice as you know. All have electrical issues, there is not one brand that doesn't, only some more than others. Replacement parts {OEM} are all expensive every brand. As far as components go the later Freightliner with Corp rear drive axles are really tough. The gear boxes--as far as AMT's Detroit DT12's are the best, Eaton auto shifts not so much. The standard Eaton manuals are still pretty much the same. Suspension wise Airliner is a good tough suspension and a standard rating of 46K. As far as engines go The DT13, 15 are not bad engines, complicated externally yes, all are. Any of the later Cummins is a toss up it's a 50/50 engine, some have had real good luck other terrible. These days there are no Rubies but with what I know I would buy a Freightliner before a PacCar. Just my 2 cents.
See there TH I posted and it hexed your thread, been ten hours. People just wanting to say by a 500 hp C7 with a slush box, in a reconstituted L9000.
Thanks TS, I value your input. I like displacement, makes it easier to drive in a soft field.
Yes----it's all a big Haha..........................................................................................................................................................Show me anyone on here that has spent 50 years solid dealing with one main item. Not working on everything from Singers to D!o's. I find it tough to follow advice from people who dabble, are dabblers and dabbling at this moment. A minimum of 25 years experience in only one field before anyone can claim they are some kind of authority. Working on pavers, rollers, generators, hvac and nuclear power plus trucks doesn't constitute any type of authority when it comes to trucks or road vehicles, it's dabbling at best. * Old trucks--1986 was the defining year for last of the good trucks coming down the assembly line. 40 years ago----those are all used up, there are no new 1986 trucks. Any mechanical engine is a dinosaur, no cruise, no controllable parameters, worst thing about them is no one to work on a B Model cat pump--those guys are all dead, dying or just plain long in the tooth. The sooner all mechanicals are gone the better, including the old dogs I built. The parts to repair are just as costly now as anything else that's newer. Plus there isn't a engine built years ago that gets the mileage/hours of engines built today. And despite the love of allison slush boxes on here----if a person doesn't care about mileage and weight and is lazy and wants to be hands free at all times to talk business on the cell while driving then that's the trans for you. * Old/used trucks is also relevant ---truthfully any truck over 7 years old as of right now is out of date. Most everything has high mileage because of shortage from 2020 to 2022, companies that had trucks dated 2013 to 2014 held on to them running mileages up to 800 to 900K. And that goes for all categories/classes, even the big shots like Penske ran up some miles. Other issue of 7 year old trucks is all the updates/recalls were those all taken care of. But it's laughable when some talk of 2001 model trucks/years. Just remember it's old, 24 years old--your kid was born went through college is married and has a kid of his own, in that amount of time.--------Most important thing is calculating just how many nut sacks have been draped over the seat of the truck your wanting to buy, should boil down to how much abuse it's had. * The one thing I like--people always say it--it won't likely get allot of use mainly set x amount of the year-----setting is worse than using it. * And yes I had a edit.
Really it just matters what you can find, I'd just shy away from air suspension for off road handling and try to get manuals with deep reductio and try to get both lockers Lots of what you can find will be old highway trucks so there will be more options with air suspension and 1 locker and higher gears. I'd try to find 2007 and older trucks. You might need two good trucks to have one truck just because of parts down time and these trucks are old and always need repair, but imo you still will have more money at the end of the year like this. Key w900 or t800 Fld 120 international 9400 Cummins n14 or Detroit 12.7 non egr
And we are back to dabbling.
Lets see Cummins doesn't build a N14--not since 2002, Series 60 the same. It costs right now roughly the same to replace any of those older engines as it does currant engines. It's hot these days during summer, replacing A/C parts on some older rigs maybe not especially when it's 100* out, everyone is looking for some of the same crud.
My n14 has a brand new ac compressor on it
So, as a dabbler for 25 years, I would ask: What is your budget for purchase? What brand has a competent dealer parts network in your area? What Brand of truck and what brand of engine is your local independant repair mechanic fluent in? Also as a dabbler I would suggest for a farm: 8LL Trans, or 18 speed because of the Low Low 4.10 or lower rears 4 way locks a must. 2 cupholders Airliner Air ride.
Freightliner has 828 dealers. Kenworth--------331''''''''''''''' Pete--------------410''''''''''''''' Mack-------------520''''''''''''''' International---1,910''''''''''''but most of those are mom & pop shops with a shingle hanging so they can buy parts at dealer pricing and do not have direct International truck sales. Western Star for years was used as a shingle to buy parts at dealer cost with no direct truck sales. International & Star only required a small inventory on hand to meet requirements. Then a few years back Freightliner pulled most of those pseudo dealers, and are sold through Freightliner combination dealers. * Freightliner has 38% of new truck sales. Kenworth 14% Pete 15% Mack 6.7% Inter 12.6 Western Star 2.6 Freightliners Inventory of OEM replacement parts casts a huge shadow over the rest. * And so Freightliner has the dealers, parts inventory, and factory mechanics hands down. * As far as personal wants verses price those two items always vary plus minus depending on actual needs. Not everybody needs super low gears or high horse power even farming. And farms don't get any steeper ground than around here and very few own anything with real low gears or horsepower.
The DT12 was designed to match the engine parameters perfectly coupled with a DD13, 15, 16. I don't remember exact number of options that can be entered but it's bunch. It is matched for the low 900 rpm @ 1500 lbs torque for 1200 rpm launch in rough conditions. * DT12 Vocational | Detroit The Detroit® DT12® Vocational Series transmissions brings performance and durability to every job. www.demanddetroit.com
You wanting day cab or sleeper? Short or long wheelbase? I've been crane shopping and the amount of equipment, in that 2008-2012 range is slim. I like that 10-15 year old stuff, and the recession in that time period, means there's just not a lot of used equipment in that age. Your fields and driveways good enough for a aero cab/ fenders and fairings plastic truck, or are you going to have to go high bumpers, big rubber? I've got a cap tire buyer that also sells the good used stuff he takes in, and there's just me and the dump truckers/ concrete trucks/ trash trucks running big drive rubber anymore. All the road guys are down to lo pro's, making the used tall rubber pretty scarce. Its the same when looking at the trucks. If you ever want to sell it, in my area it better be a Pete or a KW, because nothing else sells like they do. I'd probably prefer to row your own in the transmission if you can/ want to/ are willing to. Its a lot more likely to work when you need it. Our one automated manual never shifts when you want it to, and always shifts when you don't want it to. The guy that drives it all the time, runs it in manual mode. When I putter around in it, I just put it in auto and let it do its thing. Local outfit with dumps and mixers had/has a bunch of I-Drive macks. Drivers liked them, but they ended up at the dealer a lot- I think mostly electrical issues. Their new trucks are kw's, and I haven't heard how they are getting along with them. A different quarry/ concrete asphalt plant, their last 4 trucks came with allisons. You just haul out of the field? The guys who spend their winters hauling grain, are usually buying a little different truck than a strictly field truck.
Eaton auto shift by chance---those were/are a unfriendly transmission. For two big reasons, early design and a fit all parameter trans that was not really all that friendly to programing.
The reason for low pro 22.5's is the weight. A low pro 22.5 average is 110 lbs verses 24.5 @ 145 lbs.
ZF AS- tronic. Its great if you get out on a flat stretch of road, but it won't shift fast enough to deal with short steep hills.
I guess I should clarify, I don't know how to drive it correctly, to have the transmission deal with short steep hills. In a manual trans: If I'm coming into my shop from the east, I roll down past the creek (downhill) in 7th or 8th, pop it out and then let her slow down on the hill, and grab 3rd. Let her walk up the hill to the shop. In the zf- if you try to run auto, it will not shift fast enough on the hill to go from 8th to 3rd. It wants to grab every gear, or only skip two. It will slow to a stop, and be rolling backwards trying to grab a gear. It ain't pretty and I was lucky enough not to tear anything up. If you go manual/ select your gear- you need to get into 3rd down in the bottom, no letting it roll on up the hill at speed and pushing the gear button for "3". So really its just a lot slower, and you have to work within the limits of the trans. Progress.
A typical trade in price of one of our/my old companies tractors, many a trip to Grand Forks. And typical specs along with. * 2020 FREIGHTLINER CASCADIA 126 - Jim’s Pacific This truck Freightliner CASCADIA 126 is located in Pasco Engine make and model are: DETROIT CASCADIA 126 Transmission type is: GVWR: Class 8 VIN: 3AKNHHDR6LSKV7136 Financing available. www.jimspacificgaragesinc.com
That is a common complaint with that trans.
We're in the same boat @terex herder . We are considering upgrading a truck and a daycab Freightliner is on the top of the list. My uncle bought a 2012 Cascadia last year, and it's been a much appreciated upgrade over the 80's and 90's vintage trucks we have. His truck has a Cummins with under 400,000 miles. So far, no issues. Truck runs well and handles a 40ft hopper bottom with zero issues. It was nice hauling a load down the interstate and being able to keep up with traffic for a change. There is a local fleet that just changed over and has a bunch of 2014 to 2017 Cascadia day cabs for sale. Most of these trucks are DD13 powered, 10 speeds with under 500,000 miles. I don't know if a truck purchase will happen soon or not. We're also in talks to upgrade our combine, so that may delay the truck. Thanks @Truck Shop for sharing your thoughts on the DD13. I've been meaning to ask a similar question about it here, just hadn't got to it yet.
One other tid bit---there are very few with a turning radius of a Cascadia. In our type of business and docking issues. The cab vision and turning radius is a huge factor. Several of the drivers when the 2022 KW 990's showed up {5 total} got in them and drove around---stayed in their Freightliners.
And it makes total sense for the fleets, but I want all the load capacity I can get, and the little extra height and sidewall. 35lbs? Yeah that's not really in the calculations. That's margin of error territory for our purposes. That's us. Neither one of those has ever been a factor for me. I penciled on a napkin when I made a run to ft.worth for a trailer, but that was just for my own curiosity. I just rarely look at it. And in OTR, the fuel and the weight is the margins for profit. The difference between 7.8 and 8.3 mpg is a world changer. Not so much for us- I had three trucks on a job yesterday, and nobody probably got out of third gear all day, aside from the drive over there. Hauling concrete culvert boxes from the top of a hill to the bottom. One big loop, the guys were complaining today about throwing all the chains, tying down the loads.
It's only tire height--load capacity is the same. But with a farm truck like the one I drive in grain harvest it's a average of 280 miles a day, in 35 days that adds up in fuel. Creeping around no there is no gain. But I don't think TH is always creeping around. But even farms around here have dropped running tall rubber--the cost and no real gain with 24.5's, the other is keeping all the same size rubber on tractors and trailers, when there is a good buy on tires of a standard size like 22.5 low pro it all fits and costs less in the long run. Even for small companies. * the other---it's a hell of allot easier to handle a lighter aluminum wheel and low pro than a heavy steel full size tire, when one gets old it's easier on the body. * But people on here forget-----I worked construction, nothing anyone on here says is news to me. After being in this business 50 plus---there really is allot that can be combined from OTR experience to vocational, not everything dirt wise is special use. I've seen many mistakes through the years by both because not wanting to look a different direction. Allot of wasted dollars.
You know about 2 different things? Construction and OTR trucking? Next you'll be telling us you can do wiring and welding. You've been holding out on us all, with this multiple skills in multiple areas. Or are you just dabbling in some areas? As far as never learning anything on here, I try to learn something every day. I'm still stumbling along about the full GPS control and site modeling these guys are doing, but I'm trying. The intricacies of canbus is still giving me fits too. Sending multiple signals down the same wire is tough to get my head around.
No you didn't read that correctly CO. I worked construction trucks/equipment & otr. Do you find me on any of your threads or anyone else's telling you or suggesting how to operate your crane their equipment------NO I NEVER have, you see I don't care about what you do or have any interest in what you do. * Your not a mechanic, never will be a mechanic, your a dabbler of sorts. But I see you got the drive by approval of dd next it will be ob. * I expect the report button will be hit next.
I think everybody should calm down. Lots of posters want to help but don't always know all the details about what they're talking about. A person can have experienced certain things that give them enough info. they can comment on a subject. It's OK to have a difference of opinion. Much easier to try and get along even when it means agreeing to disagree. Not very often does someone need to be called out aggressively but sometimes it's necessary.
Don't waste your time, it isn't going to change anything.
I was just trying to lighten the mood.
Everyone has an opinion and they all are correct.
I think there are some opinions that are better off if people kept them to themselves. Good or bad they would just rile people up.
Eh, no, they aren't all correct . . .
Opinions are like aholes, everyone has one, no 2 are the same, and quite a few of them are full of ****.
In the vein of Pete vs KW vs Western Star vs Freightliner vs. Mack and value / cost/ resale. There's a purplewave auction ending the 21st. There's a 2014 Pete, a 2013 KW W900, a 2014 Western Star, 6- 2013 Freightliner Coronado's, and a 2013 Mack. All day cab tandems, all around 500,000 miles, give or take 100,000. Pretty similar specs. Light fronts, 40k rears. Cummins ISX's (except the mack which is mp8 and mack trans) , all manual trans (13 and 18's). all of them just white daycabs tandems. The pete is currently at $74,000 The KW is at $26,000 The Western Star is at $21,000 The Freightliners are all around $7,000 Poor old mack is at $3,600 Now I think the values will probably settle out a little by the time the hammer falls in two days. But its pretty evident what holds its value to the market. I really don't think the grain will know what its getting pulled by. The pete did say its been deleted in the listing, but I don't really think that's a plus or minus, just a "are you going to work on it yourself or take it to a dealer" type question.
And just because I found it interesting. The freightliners have side swivel 5th wheels. I have one on a truck. But I've never seen a remote grease bank set up for one. It's a lot of lines. But I'll admit that I've never looked for all the grease zerks on mine yet.
That's a big difference but will have to see what the final prices are. How do Mack engines last compared to Cummins? Here a lot of online auction prices take a big jump in the last 4 hours or so. Some bidders try to put in last second bids but in that case the auction is extended. Some bozo tried to do that on the tires I bought for the grader.
What does a side swivel 5th wheel do? That is a lot of grease lines.
Trailers like tankers have no flex. Going around corner where the trailer tires drop down into a dip they will actually lift the off side drive tires off the ground with a conventional fifth wheel.
The final prices can be flipped from those so we will have too see
The on straight forward no questions to ask solution to this debate is just buy a Sterling!
I've already got a Sterling, you couldn't give me another. Cheapest, crappiest, most broken up interior plastic I've ever came across.
You can give it to me then yeah the dashes are junky but they will put in a good days work just the same. You can get new dashes now
Auction results: 2014 pete 388 $85,800 2013 KW W900 $43,450 2014 W Star $25,850 6-2013 Freightliner High $25,300 to a low $17,600, lowest was $12600 with a dead cylinder/engine issues 2013 Mack CXU $17,050
That's the same price range I'm seeing locally for similar configuration Freightliners. Pretty darn affordable really, and plenty comfortable to drive.
For some reason I don't think the Pete is 4 times the truck the Freightliners are . . .
Not 4 times for sure, but as far as Freightliners go, sure as hell worth double. Guys I roll with have a couple of Colombia's on the farm. Dashes are COMPLETELY fagged out, doors are not far behind. Neither one has made a million yet, there is one Pete in the fleet, probably closer to 2 million than 1, the Freightshakers will be junk long before that Pete will. Full disclosure, I'm not a Pete fan at all, give me a late 90s/early 2000 Corn binder and I'm happy. I think they are a decent mid-grade truck. The newer ProStars, Lonestars, and LTs are bigger junk piles than the Freightliners and Sterlings, I do think Macks are decent.