What do you guys use for testing batteries? When working I had a Ferret and it worked very well but too feature rich to justify for my lonesome use. Largest batteries I see any longer are groups 8D, 4D, and 31. Of course automotive batteries also. I built a little load bank and can test for ah draw and RC, but wanting to look at raw cranking amps. I see several brands available, FJC, Clore, Solar, etc. many which appear to be produced by the same manufacturer and repackaged. Thanks,
I use a capacitance tester. Midtronics is the standard, but way overpriced. The China knockoffs are surprisingly comparable, such as the Solar and Clore branded ones I wish there was a quality made carbon pile available. The Chinese carbon piles you mentioned are really cheesy. I purchased a few when I was teaching at the University, but the students destroyed them almost immediately Associated used to make a decent unit. Availably is slim and they are ridiculously priced. There were a couple places refurbishing and selling the Sun Vat28 & Vat40. That may be an option. There are certain times where a carbon pile tester is very nice to have.
Cat used to sell a compact, portable,carbon pile with two cables and ammeter. It came in a green metal enclosure and had a hefty amp rating. I haven’t seen one in years. I see Cat has a part number for a bench top unit. Looks like it’s made by Allied. CAT 4C4911 . That might be worthwhile to investigate. eBay perhaps.
I had a VAT 28 years ago but it had limitations the Vat 40 addressed. Those used to be in a lot of shops when starters and generators/alternators along with regulators were rebuilt local. Very good machines I'd grab if found reasonable.
Me too. They have all, but disappeared. I almost scored one, but was a few hours late when the last electrical shop in my area closed.
That Ferret meter was slick. It would do wet cell, AGM, VRLA, and all sorts of battery types. Lot of external sensors to plug into it monitoring ambient temperature, negative battery post temperature, discharge rate, and several other functions I really never needed. Had an Alber' meter to do internal resistance checks and this also worked slick but that test equipment was very high end and expensive. Used to do UPS checks and upgrades, (Uninteruptable Power Supply) backing up processing racks that simply could not go without power so these would carry loading till emergency backup generators took over.
I scored a good used Autometer SB5 for $375 from Ebay 20 yrs ago, still use it today. sb-5 autometer for sale | eBay Get the best deals for sb-5 autometer at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items! www.ebay.com
Those SB-5 series are what the local Interstate Battery dealer has and uses. They are very reliable and stand up to abuse well. I had two 31P batteries in and tested this morning with them. No problems, just wanted them tested as three years in service this month. The 11 year old one from my 1845C was replaced as knew it was weak. Not bad in service time with that one but it's kept on a maintainer.
That's what we used in the shop--old unit but was very reliable.
Clore 1000 Amp 6/12/24V Carbon Pile Battery Tester - 1876 Clore 1000 Amp 6/12/24V Carbon Pile Battery Tester - 1876. Usually ships in2 days. Buy it and Save at Globalindustrial.com www.globalindustrial.com * Then there is HF.
Global isn't a bad company. Still use them from time to time. Have looked at that Clore unit and it is right on par with HF in quality and the reason I don't own one. The Associated branded ones are looking appealing to me but am looking for a bit less outlay: Associated 6036B Battery Load Tester, Carbon Pile, 0-16 Volts DC, 0-1000 Amps Buy Associated 6036B Battery Load Tester, Carbon Pile, 0-16 Volts DC, 0-1000 Amps with an everyday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools www.jbtools.com The same Clore: Solar 1876 1000 Amp 6/12/24V Carbon Pile Battery Tester Buy Solar 1876 1000 Amp 6/12/24V Carbon Pile Battery Tester with an everyday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools www.jbtools.com I've purchased a lot from JB Tools and they are very reliable to use.
I have the Solar unit that TS linked to. I have been very happy with it.
I looked at one a local guy had and it had something loose in it and was brand new. No outside damage to the case, or box I could see. Have no idea but think it was sent back for replacement and I've not checked back.
Huge price difference between the Clore/Solar and the Associated. I think Solar is generally a pretty decent brand.
A large disparity for certain. Is it worth the difference? I don't really know but Associated has had a good name in professional shops for a lot of years. One of my shop floor battery chargers is Associated and it's every bit of 30 years old and could be 40 as I purchased it used 20+ years ago. Works flawlessly. I have their 800A clamps on my booster cables and they are solid copper jaws. Doesn't take long to jump start a car with those. Little things like that are still very good to have. I also have a Solar shop floor charger from 1972 IIRC given to me not working. I rebuilt all four germanium rectifiers in that one and it works as new. I like that one as it has 6/12/24VDC charge settings. No timer and all manual. Now all that said, I purchased a 10/2A Associated bench charger and it's a piece of crap, or at least the first one was and this is a replacement. It is however still made here. Decent cables and copper plated steel clamps and it does a good job being fully automatic but is definitely a "Joe Homeowner" special. I have both 24VDC, and 36VDC "Lester" battery chargers and they are first rate and I can't say that more fair. Excellent support from that small Nebraska company but they don't cater to the retail store sales. Not cheap either but both mine were purchased used from a golf cart repair company. The 24VDC charger had a blown fuse when I got it. Called them up, told them what I had and needed and $16.00 later I had an upgraded fuse and holder setup that looks original to the unit. Nice people to boot telling me to ensure some certain areas were not showing degradation given these things are used a lot outdoors and not protected for that.
Maybe you could help me. I have a manual battery charger with a booster that quit working. It was working fine but I was using a generator to power it. Now it has no output and trips the breaker on the generator. I'm wondering if it could be something simple or if there's places you can take a battery charger to get fixed? I got it on sale for $100 quite a few years so it might not be worth trying to fix.
Dead short in the charger someplace. Photos and serial number of the unit is a good place to start. Hopefully not something built by Schumacher of which many consumer chargers are these days. If so, seldom worth repairing. What does a lot of the lower end chargers in is cranking the engine while the charger is working. This drives the internal currents to "surge" levels becoming almost a dead short in the transformer windings until something melts. This may, or may not be the scenario you have experienced. Long and short is shut the charger off when cranking the engine if the charger does not have a "Boost" selection on the dial.
Good ole "Carbon Pile" base ingredients right there. Pulverize it into a powder, mix with an adhesive base and mold into several discs with a hole in the middle for an insulating sleeve, with a nut and bolt to run through, a couple of insulating washers and heavy copper lugs or bar type material to attach leads to and you have a very effective battery load. Squeeze it tighter and the resistance goes lower increasing your current flow through the carbon. Run this output through a shunt resistor to drive a meter and you have basically what we are talking about in the thread in basic form.
This is a pair of spare booster cable ends I keep to cover one of those "Ah Sh^t!" Moments:
Talked to a couple of shops I'm friendly with that have both the Associated, and Solar brands of carbon pile load testers. Going to run by each and give them a try. The Associated load tester will also do 24VDC systems and is the same physically looking at the 12VDC unit with a -24 at the end of the model number. To my surprise Associated is still a St. Louis based company and their units are still manufactured in USA. Money is not really the object but the durability is as I'll only want to purchase one. Here is a link to a company I've used several times with good service: Associated 6036B-24 1000 Amp Load Testing Tool | 24 Volt All the features as the 6036B with added value of 24 Volt battery testing capability. Using dual scale meter & solid state automatic ranging circuit. www.mile-x.com
How often would you use it? You could replace the Solar model several times for the cost of the Associated.
I vote for Associated Equipment.
This would actually get quite a bit of use routinely. Not just for battery loading as they are capable of much more than just that. They also can do a very good job of charging system evaluation, starting current draw, and a plethora of testing requiring a greater load than a multimeter can provide. The Clore types of these testers do not have the resolution the Associated equipment does, but I'll look further into this to ensure the higher dollar expended would serve a needed purpose. I have several shunts and meters I've set up over the years to look for various problems through troubleshooting and kind of hoping this purchase will fulfill more than a single need, or requirement.
Given it's going to get very cold this next few days I ran out to the dozer with my small portable generator always carried in "Krusty" along with my trusty "LesterMatic" 24V battery charger and Fluke meter to ensure the starting batteries are fully charged before heading into below zero temps. 1st battery meters at 12.59VDC, and second battery meters at 12.72VDC so really more fully charged than thought. Haven't had the tractor started in a couple of months so was concerned. Regardless I snapped the charger onto the series fed string and let it charge while I ran for groceries to carry us the cold snap. Initial charge was only yielding near 3/4A charge rate and zero upon my return. Just before the time change I had placed a 25A resistive load upon these batteries individually and they both were going strong after there rc test was complete. Could not run a load capacity test as no carbon pile which is what started this thread.... That same 25A load helped me prove the alternator good, but regulator defective too by using this test equipment. Operator console gauge does not have near the resolution required and is no better than an idiot lamp. Charging system is only 20A and the dash gauge is mostly non responsive, but probably dirty, or compromised connections as there is minimal deflection of the movement.
Nah--this is a true oil burning carbon pile, it makes carbon. Tested for making carbon in 1957. *
One of the "true" roadmasters and a drop top to boot. Nice car worth working with for certain.
Ordered the Associated, (6036B-24) carbon pile yesterday. Should arrive beginning of the week. Feature wise it will fit right in. I hauled in four known good group 31 batteries and interconnected two in parallel, and two in series to exercise both 12V, and 24V systems. Worked slick is about the best way to say it. Once I get this thing at the shop I have several alternators to diagnose and repair and it will find continued usage around here.
Still haven't received carbon pile yet but is in transit. Charged up replaced battery from my skid steer that is several years old and was setting a couple of days at 12.43VDC retained and stable. I clipped on this 20+/-ADC load to see how fast it would decay through 10.5VDC indicated. I've checked accuracy with a Fluke 87 meter I keep in calibration and this little test jig is close. I snapped the photo just as the voltage decayed to 10.5VDC, but after screen shot of the timer. Reserve capacity on this particular battery is 190 minutes with a 25A load. As can be seen, it has failed. Screenshot of time from 12.43VDC, to 10.5VDC:
Found a parasitic draw I've been chasing a while in my old Mack today. Intermittent problems are damned hard to isolate sometimes and this one was no exception. Truck would seemingly want to discharge it's batteries without warning, sometimes. Most times it could set for weeks and fire right off but every now and then after setting a couple of days, near dead batteries requiring a jump to start. I have been lifting the battery cables each time and metering between the +, and - cable ends without finding any resistance indicated. Today was different. No batteries in the truck as I'd removed them to evaluate with external test equipment. Habitually I clipped on meter leads and Voila!! 370.2 ohms indicated. I start massaging and manipulating the secondary cables running to a firewall mounted magnetic switch. After removing and isolating this switch and finding it open, (as should be) I went to the 40MT starter solenoid switch. Lifting the connection from the batteries still revealed the resistance value from the terminal to the starter motor body. Alright, the problem is isolated to the starter assembly. With leads clipped to the terminal and a good ground, and a steady resistance reading of 362 ohms indicated, I gave the stater solenoid smart "whack" with a 3/4" wrench I'd taken the cables loose with. Resistance immediately increased to 91K ohms. Another "whack" and resistance went to an open reading as should be. Burned, or corroded copper contacts in the 40MT solenoid I'm sure. It was lightly sprinkling so didn't take it apart but most likely will tomorrow. I know I have a couple of new 24V MT40 magnetic switches in the cabinet and I assume the innards would be the same if parts are needed. The truck is 12V. The copper contact rings can usually be cleaned up but if the copper studs are incinerated then they need replaced. Truck is still buried in snow drifts so unable to move it but will probably be able to tomorrow as the temps are mild and it's raining. Soupy, sloppy mess in reality.
On to the next electrical gremlin I discovered today. I went to park both my zero turn lawnmower and my small farm tractor under the MGB car up on the lift. Both engines started right up but the tractor was not charging and the alternator lamp in the gauge was glowing. Multimeter proved a no charge scenario. Ultimately I discovered no field current being supplied to the alternator. I then started visually looking and following wiring and on the opposite side of the tractor is a glass fuse block with open spade terminals. Watching the meter and massaging the positioning of the female spades, the charging system jumped to life. And to think that tractor was new in 1975!! I wouldn't be expecting electrical gremlins yet..... Spades are original but tarnished so I'll get after them all with a brass bristle brush and contact cleaner to make this better followed by some conformal coating to seal it up. I remember the days I couldn't even spell lecktrishun, and now IB one.
Trying to find electrical gremlins is one of the most frustrating things to diagnose. Bravo on isolating it to the starter. The fuel gauge on my tractor stopped working. I bought a new gauge and sending unit and nothing worked. I don't know how but I put the old gauge and sending unit back and discovered that if the gauge housing touched the dash the gauge worked. That's odd. I took the little gasket type ring that goes around the gauge off and the gauge has been working like new for years. Makes no sense why all of a sudden it quit working. Sucks I couldn't return the new gauge and sending unit.
I built up a little testing box that is just a 0-500 ohm 5W wire wound precision pot and I think it takes three full turns to go from min to max resistance value. This is installed into a small aluminum handy box with two sets of paralleled female test ports. I cut the banana stabs from a set of meter test leads and installed alligator clips on the ends with the other ends of the test leads being the original pointed stabs. Let's say you have a fuel gauge in your hands and a 12V battery and want to test this gauge. Assuming it is in compliance with the old Stewart-Warner, or Datcon analogy, this gauge is a 33ohm to 270ohm resistance movement. Using a digital multimeter, (as they have a very high impedance value to not load the circuit) place it's test leads into a set of female test ports on the test box. Set the pot to maximum resistance indicated on your meter. Clip the positive lead of your battery to the + terminal on the gauge. Place the stabs of the test leads into the other female receptacles on the test box. Attach one alligator clip to the gauge - terminal, and the other alligator clip to your battery negative terminal. While watching both your digital meter, and the gauge start reducing the resistance of the pot until you start to noticing gauge deflection. Once the needle starts moving, (usually towards empty, or low) take a note of this resistance value indicated on the meter, then continue to reduce the resistance till the gauge has reached full deflection. Make another note of this reading. If within +/- 10% of 33 ohms, and 270 ohms, the gauge is good. Again, this the S-W standard and yours could be a little different but most industrial implements used this standard. You can do the same testing with the gauge in the vehicle if you have access and use the equipment's electrical rather than a separate battery. If you can get right on the sending units terminations, the complete system can be checked out easily. All a sending unit is is a varistor, (variable resistor) and this little test box simulates this. Very little current flows in these systems so a 5W pot is plenty adequate. I use mine quite extensively and the 500 ohm resistance value ensures no current flow when it's not wanted to burn the gauge up. Transmitters, and transducers work the same way and are either an off/on switch, or a varistor and so far the little box I've built works for all I've seen. That all may be as clear as mud as I'm tired and the eff'n keyboard has both sticking, and intermittent keys, so proofreading is wearing me out.
Well Sh*t!!! Carbon pile arrived today in a battered box with a rattle. Those familiar with these things know the carbon wafers or discs can be quite fragile and don't take to rough handling very well at all. This box obviously took a tumble in it's journey someplace. If that weren't enough, it wasn't the 24V option or at least did not appear to be so as the box did not have part number 6035B-24, as the -24 was not there meaning it's probably the 12V version. I refused the shipment and the FedEx driver took it back with him. I called the vendor and they denied shipping it damaged, (of course but probably accurate) and will get me another coming. On a rather positive note; I was into the Sam's Club this morning picking up some groceries and noticed the battery rack being replenished in the automotive department. I therefore picked up a new pair of Group 31P batteries with a 1/24 build date sticker on them. Had to pay the core charge, but that will be refunded next time I'm in there as I have cores available in the shop.