Here some info bout my self. Grew up as a welder and part time heavy equipment operator. I been wanting to start up a Skid Steer/welding service here in central missouri. I been looking at money wise from purchasing a brand new skid steer and mantince it the best I can and dont have plans to buy another one. Dealers loaction: Bobcat: St. louis 120 miles Cat: 60 miles Case:60 Miles New Holland: 80 Miles John Deere: 40 Propose of machine: Dirt work, clearing brush, fence building, cleaning up/demolation and farm. Will be using about every kind of attachment there is to complete the job. Price Tag: Free to 65,000 Looked at Bobcat T-320- I think its a good machine plently of pushing power as the lifting it left good but have the safty feature where itll stop going up and dont even tip a bit Cat: ran a wheeled machine and I dont like it becuase of the joy stick controls where 1 side locks up and the other spin it ass off Case: I honestly cant tell never been in one longer than 3 hours New Holland:never ran one John Deere: They feel like they have lots of power but demo it at a dealership Whats your opnion on the machine you have ran, Im not worried bout rear visiblity becuase I work by my self, Emission is no concern due to be in country side. Want the best bang for buck and not be in a bind when i have a big job to do. Im shooting for the biggest they make. Service and part/dealer service is very important to me due to being a rual area and need things fixed asap what thr experince you had with the brand dealership.
Welcome to the Forums Fickster!:drinkup I'll give my $.02 on the subject. The only tracked skids I have owned has been a Bobcat T190 and T250. Personally I would stay away from the earlier T190's but that's my personal experience and my opinions of this particular machine are documented elsewhere on the Forum. I still have my T250 (sold the T190 several years ago) and it has been a good machine. Strong, powerful and well balanced. It is a 2004 model with 2K +/- hours on it. It has had a few issues in the last year, mainly wear items - hoses, belts, etc. Currently it is at the Bobcat doc getting an electrical gremlin chased to find out why the aux. hyd's will not work. I'll be the first to admit that this machine has been road hard and put up wet during it's lifetime. Being a smaller machine compared to the rest of the fleet it wasn't looked after as well as the yellow iron and ran by multiple operators that weren't the easiest on machines, back when times were blow and go. That being said it has been a good machine and I have been working through the problems of use and age of the machine over the last year. I don't have any substantial experience with any other machines of this kind, so all I can opine on is what I have owned/operated.
Thank you for your input, how ever I'm afraid the T-250 will be to small bc the ablity to lift the 5,000 lbs bundles of the steel that comes in semi loads will not Be accomplished. Your 2 cents can help me save thousands of dollers of I need something that size
I wrote my thoughts on my new CASE TR320 on here. The new CASE Alpha skid steers are impressive. Lifting 5K could be a challenge for any CTL.
I know the T-320 will do it becuase i ve done it sevral times. My steel comes in 5,000lbs boundles no shorter than 8 foot and can be long as 32 ft. KSS i will check out the case TR320. Thank you
Im not a skid steer expert like many on here so i dont have a lot to say about the choice of machine. I will say however that 65k for one piece of equipment for a new business sounds like a lot of money. I dont have a doubt in my mind that one could acquire a nice used piece for less than half that price that will do the job. With that said, i personally like to put a toe in the water before i jump right in. There is a ton of competition out there and this is not an easy business to make money in. Not saying i know exactly how you plan to use this or your business plan or your back log of work. I would just hate to see you invest that kind of money only a year from now discovering the business isnt for you and taking a massive hit trying to sell this new machine. Hope this helps, not trying to be a buzz kill........ Good Luck either way!
There is a lot of good advice already. I will say as far as lifting 5,000# bundles, while it is past the rated capacity, my Cat 287 does it. I have lifted over 6,000# with it, and I am pushing up close to 4,000 hrs on my machine. I have not had much experience with other brands, but my Cat has been very reliable, even with very hard use. I would get another one in a second based on my experience with the one I have. It has had a few minor problems, like hoses, and the undercarriage issues are well documented, but I have had no major problems. I bought mine second hand, with 1,400 hours on it, and it was used pretty hard in a forestry application before I got it. I have used it for everything imaginable, and it still handles the toughest tasks. Just last week I loaded and unloaded the buckets for a 345 excavator, the largest one being right around 6,000#, as well as the heavy duty demolition grapple, which is even heavier. I am not sure the weight on it, but it was the max I could lift. I suspect it was 6,500+#, but have never weighed it.
Fickster what part of Missouri are you in?
What do you lift the bundles with? Pallet forks? Chain on your bucket? Chainplate? or something else?
I agree but with a slight twist... If 65k is your total all in pile of cash don't spend it all at once (spread the fun out a little, eh?). Don't forget to account for equipment to haul your equipment. Don't forget to add in the attachments. Keep a little back for maint. and repair. Along the way you may find a niche that is more profitable than others but it will be best done with another machine (smaller even). It would be nice to have some cash to jump in at that point. Used equipment prices seem to vary with the season. If you have time you could save yourself a bunch of cash and have some time to test the equip. before the first job.
Dixon. By fort Leonard wood
Dixon Near Fort Lenord Wood
I have a peterbilt semi and been leasing a 45 foot Drop deck from a old friend of mine i used to work and weld for in the domolation business, how ever this is a trailer that he bought to scrap n decided to keep it, all it needed a new floor. there is another guy who i used to work cattle with and some hualing for, he runs the same business as i want to do and he said that Im welcomed to start one up in his area and wont be no bridges getting burnt and had possibly talked bout renting his attatchments for a certain price per day etc.
If it were me I would have the Cat & Bobcat dealers do a demo on new CTL's. Try & get them as closely equipped as possible & see which one you like more in your application. Everyone test drives a new vehicle, so you might as well do the same with your tractor. Put them side by side & look at ease of maintenance as well as which will do the job for you.
I grew up on john deere tractors and equipment, We been having really good luck with them due to having tractor 1 size bigger than needed applicationa and mantaoince. I been really leaning towards a John Deere 333D becuase service/dealership are relativly close to use and the do come out to where the equipment is if we are unable to fix it or under warrenty ETC. Cat & Bobcat want ballpark figue 500 a day to do a demo on the machines and deere is free unless theres damages and im liable for it which i understand the concept of that what i want to know is the best bang for the buck, something that i can fix if its simple, less down time, it gonna be 1 operator and i dont share my equipment at all due to a valuable lesson i learned when i was 16. How many of you guys have to pay to do a demo?
I actually work for a Cat dealer in sales & have never heard of charging for a demo. The Deere does make a very good machine, but if it were me spending that kind of money I would still ask the other dealers to do a free demo like Deere. Obviously I lean towards Cat, but I really think it's best to try them all out to see what is best for you.
Never heard of anyone charging for a demo.
Fickster I am from New Have it's betwen Hermann and Washington. Did you know that there is a Bobcat dealer in Jefferson City?
Is it a group of bobcat of st. Louis?? As I mented earlier there a guy who does the same work I been wanting to start up owned a bobcat no I can not tell you the model how ever it is a vertical lift on tires. He had several problems due to electrical after bobcat worked on it n gave him so many hours warranty on it. He was clearing brush and stopped to eat lunch soon as he got out of machine he saw smoke n used 3 bottles of fire extends her how ever it was not enough the machine went up n flames had to call the fire department to put fire out n bobcat said electrical caused it n will not pay a portion of the machine, he went n bought a Kubota 90 horse n so far he likes it. I not lookin at Kubota because it's not an American product. And have a kubota engine in my Lincoln vantage 300 welder n leaks oil everywhere n bad with 1,000+ hours
That just gave me an idea n your right I think I should do that because I've bought my welder with 200 hours on it for 7,000 and my peterbilt for 20,000. I completely forgot bout that. I think I'll look around n try to find one with less than 500 hours like a repo or demo ones. Thanks. That was a good idea
No it's not part of Bobcat of St.Louis. I forgot the name but it's a forklift dealer. I think I found them through bc website.
I have never been charged for a demo. If they want to sell you a machine they should let you try it out first.:cool2
Id say its Clark of jefferson city and sell bobcat on the side selling bobcats designed to do jobs like fork lift such as a vertical lift machines with tires on them. I belive it's near hwy 54?? But I think I'm gonna pass up on a bobcat due to long distance for reliability n service, I was in western oklahome northern Texas n there not a single bobcat in that area n there are a lot of pipe fence needing to be built, yes I travel cross country to build fence n make money doing it but tired of renting or using their machines
you say your concerned about visibility and that you work by yourself?? have you entertained the idea of a new jcb or volvo? visibility is the best in the business, and you can get out of the machine with the boom up. i got 100 hours on our jcb 205 and can't say enough good things about it.
Never heard of the brand. 100 hours? I plan to run them 12-16 hours a day. I haven't read my previous post but I'm an not. Not worried bout visibility
we have a ctl JD332 and a rubber tire 328. The clt has surprised use with how much it will lift and hopefully they worked out all the bugs. Plues the hp bump they gave them should take you a long way.
How much fuel does the 332 burns? I been guessing a 333D will burn 2-3 gal per hour
Ive run it hard for about ten hours and burned about 20 gallons. That was a real shocker when we first bought it. If you take it easy just doing light work you could keep it to aroud 15 gallons.
yes, we just purchased the jcb. jcb makes the volvo ctls for them. other benefits of the jcb is they do not have a particulate trap, and do not need urea, yet have best in class fuel economy. jcb is the 3rd largest construction equipment manufacturer in the world right behind cat and komatsu.
Being 3rd largest in the world does little good if you live in North America where dealers are few and far between, and resale is questionable at best.
The statement that JCB is the 3rd largest construction equipment OEM is not true. They were ranked #17 out of the top 50 in 2010. Volvo is ranked 5th and Terex is even ranked higher which provides a perfect example that demonstrates global size ranking does not constitute a strong position in the US market as evidenced by limited US success/marketshare by all three I just mentioned. A strong dealer network and positive market perception of the product range carries more weight.
If jcb is 3rd largest. How come I never seen/ heard of one? I've seen and heard alof of differnt brands from my background of running dozers, highlift and excavators. Just saying. The only dozer I've ran is a cat D7 with cable blade did have a pony motor but it's replaced with electric start.
that is surprising that you have never heard of them. last year they sold 69,100 machines, making them #3 worldwide for machine sales. they produce more TLBs than all of the other construction equipment manufacturers in the world combined, and are #1 in telehandlers. service and support on my new jcb has been unlike anything i have ever seen. if i have a question or even the smallest of problems, both the dealer and multiple jcb company reps are out instantly. it is quite luxurious.
Dave please post that info showing JCB is #3 in the world. From the 2011 KHL yellow table report - http://www.forconstructionpros.com/...ction-equipment-sales-grew-25-to-a-new-record JCB is not even in the top 10.:cool2
Is the article is the us or world? I personally thought John Deere was like 5th. I sure see them everywhere on jobs but most I've seen is cat but they so dang high I can't afford them but love them, even my Pete have a cat and it pulls n runs great.
Thanks. That is the same report I used as well, although I don't have the full report for both 2011 and 2012. JCB came in at #17 in 2010. I know Dave will argue about the number of units instead of revenue; however, IMO it's a watered down argument merely because JCB probably counts all of those little hand operated compactors and other tools. The fact that Terex moved up two spots to #8 from #10 is another prime example that a strong dealer network and good brand perception are what an OEM needs in the US to be successful. Other than Terex's Genie products, CTLs and cranes one would be hard pressed to see much of their product anywhere, at least in my local market.
:stirthepotI'm gonna call it like I see it. Dave , I think you're a marketing mole , a plant. If it walks like duck .... Just sayin :crazy:duh
if you are saying i should be getting paid for what i put up with you are right! http://www.jcbamericas.com/company_information.htm In 1945, Joseph Cyril Bamford founded JCB with the goal of producing the best, most innovative machines on the market while staying true to the needs of the customer. Sixty years and countless innovations later, JCB has grown to become the third largest heavy equipment manufacturer in the world. And because we are still a family owned company, our dedication to the customer remains a top priority. In fact, we strive to make you feel as if you are part of our family – from the first time you step into one of our dealerships. We answer to our customers, not a group of shareholders. That freedom allows us to concentrate on developing the latest technologies and incorporating them into our equipment. We focus on what you need on the jobsite – a machine that holds up in the toughest environment and increases your productivity. At JCB, we stand behind our products – and our name. as far as the best ctl goes, i would still consider a takeuchi
With all due respect Dave, it appears JCB is just naming itself 3rd largest when other reports put them much farther down the line. I don't know what JCB is basing this on but even Sany celebrated it's #6 spot on KHL's list. http://www.sanygroup.com/group/en-us/media/31951_for_news_text.htm The KHL's list shows JCB as #12. I would put more stock into JCB's claim if a 3 third party list reflected the same.:cool2
Now just a question after seeing your links it's based on money I mean a cat loader cost 100,000 bobcat 75,000 John Deere 60,000 kubota 51,000. I would like to know who can answer what company produce the most quality dependable machines along custumors service and what not ? I don't think it can ever be answered because every dealer is differnt, everyone have differnt opnion And for you Dave. I don't think your brand is the best in visibility or best in fuel encomy so I'm Out on a jbs. N I'm thinking your a sale man throu
nope just a humble farmer farming away with my jcb in wisconsin. as for the visibility SAE audit says jcb has about 100 degrees more i believe the number was. speaking from my own experience, the visibility is outstanding. as far as the jcb dieselmax engine, it has won many awards and has received much acclaim worldwide. ah well i would imagine i should probably retreat back to "daves thread" before things get too carried away. as far as worlds 3rd largest, maybe they are basing that on global coverage. either way i dont see whats wrong with being #10 especially when you are a family business. i know in brasil and the uk people wear jcb shoes and such and its more a household name like john deere is in the midwest. maybe they are counting the shoes in with the 60,000 number? ah jcb beat out cat here... http://www.rankingthebrands.com/The-Brand-Rankings.aspx?rankingID=57&year=430
if i was buying i would want a 90hp kubota with a cab but they are more expinsive than a john deere and a 332d john deere is a very nice machine.
I would be shocked if JCB didn't beat out Cat in a UK survey on the most popular B2B brands.:cool2
Sorry bout the dealt. Been on a job right now n I'm using a bobcat T300 n it's goin alright. Blew a Metal line on lift cylinder. How ever I looked at a jcb pictures on Internet, ok looks like They have better viability but 1 loader arm on 1 side??? I don't think it can lift or push as Much what I need to get done. I can post pictures of what we do here and the type of jobs I do with them loaders
Please keep in mind that the purchase price is only part of the picture. All CTL's will have maintenance issues. Service after the sale and at what cost is very important. I really like my JD CTL 332 with EH Joysick controls. Until the day the RH joystick failed. Is it right for a dealer to charge $4.85 per mile for a 130 mile round trip = $630.50 for 2.5 hours driving =$252.20 per hour for service truck and serviceman to drive? Then $110.00 per hour for 1 hour to cahange out RH joystick costing $1700.00. Total bill= $2455.00 I can earn $85.00 to $90.00 per hour Ct332+ operator. Is this a right relationship?Now Iam somewhat poorer, older and wiser. When you promise work to be done and machine breaks then what will you do and at what cost?
We all pay to play. That is a ridiculous price per mile, but what do you do?? I had Cat come out last fall to replace the AC compressor on my 95. Cost me $2700 to have them do it. I could have done it, but we had two scrapers last fall, and during the few days after it broke I didn't have an operator for the second scraper. So, I chose to have Cat fix it, and I sat in the other scraper for the day. I probably.didn't make more than the bill, but it probably was a wash and I got another day's work done in the heat of the season. We just have to face reality that sometimes things break that we can't/are unable/just don't want to fix ourselves. There has to be money budgeted for those types of repairs.