All most two months ago now, I ordered a 30,000 Lb Warn XL-LP winch through Summit. I paid for it. The part was coming from the manufacture drop shipped with a shipping date of 5-21 then it was changed to 5-22. So when I saw there was no e-mail that it had been shipped I called Summit. Summit called Warn while I was on hold, they came back and told me warn was shipping it on 5-23. I'm only 250 miles from Warn manufacturing in the Portland, Or area- nothing showed up to day. I called Summit they called Warn again and was told they were waiting on a main drive shaft for that winch which they would receive on the 6-1. They lied plus they didn't even have parts on hand to build it to begin with. Which also means if it breaks they have no parts to repair it. That is Bogus business practice at best. Summit was going to have Warn call me-never happened. Someone should have called to let me know of the situation-Summit or Warn. Summit is refunding my credit card company then they will send me a check. But if Summit had any balls from the top floor they would halt business with Warn. Warn lied to Summit and Warn lied to me on a product I had paid for in full. Tulsa or Ramsey next. Truck Shop
That's a bummer ! Winch for the KW wrecker ?
Yes TD it is a bummer-I like to be able to believe people but one thing that will get me fired up is being lied to. Because if it happens once it will happen again. My trust in the public and businesses is reaching the empty mark on the trust gauge. Truck Shop
I had one Warn. I wasn't impressed. I have a one Tulsa and one Ramsey, no trouble with either.
We have 5 warn winches in use... we use them moving buildings.... best light duty winch made hands down... we have wore them completely out and and they rebuilt it for no cost... we paid shipping to send it to SC i think... I also love my warn 12000lb winch with air. it will run a nail gun on limited use, pumps up flat tires, it helped upright an F700 truck i rolled and it has pulled out my tl150 twice.... sorry to hear about that but dont forget sometimes bad employees or even just a new employee can mess things up... I have no experience with their 30k winch - sound like fun. I have a medium duty 30k on my 932a2 truck...not sure who made it... We use this model https://www.warn.com/truck/winches/M8274-50.jsp
I still stand buy the Holmes winch mast behind the cab on the KW . Just mount the mast without the booms . Twin winch drums that are versatile for pulling in any direction and make a monkey out of any " want to be winch " of today .
Those things are heavy duty...
They out perform as advertised . Way underrated .
That's a great idea but I just don't need that set-up. The reason for the winch is pulling one out from a loaded trailer when the tractor is dead or will not move. And using a wheel lift from the front can be a real problem with all the plastic bumpers. You can not move the Freightliner or Volvo trucks with automatics with out pulling axles or dropping the drive shaft. If you do you just ate a $18,000 transmission. I'm not doing any recovery work at my age and health situation those day's are over for me. I only need one winch that's rated in the 30 to 40 K range. But it sure as Hell isn't going to be a Warn. And truthfully I should have known better than to buy a winch from a 4x4 outfit. Truck Shop
I 'm thinking time to pass a little knowledge down to the next generation . Next run take a young feller with you & while you are hooking up to the steering axil of the dead tractor under the trailer with the hydro wheel lift ..... Have the young pup crawl under & yank the drive shaft back off the brakes . Pass it on bro ... We aint gonna live forever .
This stuff happens all to often. Makes you want to drive down to the factory and find out what there made.I have a 9000 Ramsey wormdrive.i am very impressed with it but Because of the way i use it i want to replace it with a pto winch but electric winch do have their place.
Well that's great but I'm the youngest in the shop, and doing two pick and drops well it's just easier to winch it out from trailer then pick it up from the rear. On long distance every thing rides better towing from the back. Truck Shop
Well here's a bit of news I just learned. Warn Industries was sold in 2000 to Endeavor Capital & Northwest Equity in lieu of chapter 11. In 2003 the Dover Corporation bought Warn Industries for $325 million. Dover is four divisions-Energy, Engineered Elevator Systems, Fluids, Refrigeration & Food Equipment. WARN is Dover's financial loss division, not meant to run in the Black. Companies are not ruined over night sometimes it takes years to get the job done, dying on the vine. This answers my questions. Truck Shop
https://lewiston.craigslist.org/pts/d/braden-hydraulic-pto-winch/6583897779.html
Talking about Portland made winches, I have a "MegaWinch" brand on the front of my old Chevy, government surplus truck, winch appeared to be unused. The first time I used it it blew the breaker 10 times just turning a piece of 42" pipe for cutting. Barely got the cable spooled back in. It's now just decoration on the bumper.
With a snatch block that could work for truck shop.
If you really want a serious winch, there's a bunch of these around as surplus right now. They are take off from military lowboy puller trucks, and pretty cheap for what they are. Several fire departments by me have got the trucks and made water trucks out of them, then sell the winches. I see both bare winches, and the "self contained" ones that have the controls and a tank all on a mounting plate. 65,000 on a bare drum, but I don't know if you really want to drag 1" cable just to pull a dead truck out from under a trailer. There are some other styles, just ebay "military winch", and you can separate by zip code to find one close, and maybe a little smaller one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dp-WINCH-f...631707?hash=item1a48914d1b:g:7OQAAOSwe7BWw1pe https://www.ebay.com/itm/45-000-lb-...058885?hash=item239c2d2205:g:BhsAAOSw9t1aqHnk
It seems that is all too common now with companies that had great reputations. You have to read the fine print at the bottom of the company info to find out it's been bought out by some big investment group and is now " a [DSV, Daske, Berkshire-Hathaway...] Company". I have yet to find one of those that's better now than it was.
I took a 10,000 series CharLynn hydraulic motor into the local hydraulic shop for a rebuild... They could have a new replacement in 3 days, the parts to rebuild the original motor were 3 months out and cost more than a new one. All for a pitted output shaft?
I have a line on the 45,000 Lb DP military winch just like the ones above for $1,500 bucks that a friend has. But there are some glitches with using one of those. I talked to Tulsa who owns DP about the specs on those military units and they sent me a complete data sheet. First off there is no free spool, second the hydraulic motor requires a minimum of 45 GPM flow the best performance is a 65 GPM. If you don't have the pump for one of those the winch speed is super slow. The pump to run one of those winches is outrageous in price. Tulsa admits it's a great winch and very powerful but it was government spec'ed. DP made over 40,000 of those for the military and most never have been used. Truck Shop
I do have an 8 bolt PTO and a big Commercial gear pump I just took off a an 18 spd Fuller. It might run one of those military winches just fine. I'll have to double check, but it has 1" ports.
Thanks but those winches are two speed and use a two stage stacked pump. The Zacklift only requires 2500 psi and 15 gpm. My pump is 2750 psi and 15 gpm. In order to make the the Hi/Lo speed work it would need another control valve. I really want one with an air clutch or clutch for free spooling cable out. Anything under the 45 Gpm on those military units is so slow on line speed you will be lucky to see 5 feet per minute. People who buy those military units don't understand the pump required to make it operate. I have only seen one with a pump because it was removed from a military truck complete. Most all of those came from surplus warehouses minus the pump. I looked up the pump required to operate it only found two available and those were $ 2,800 bucks and also required a pto with a different/odd female shaft connection. Truck Shop
What pressure do the military winches max out at?
Right now I'm looking at this 45,000 Lb unit for $6,370 with air clutch and it is compatible with my hydraulic pump. Ramsey and Tulsa units in the 40,000 lb range are $9,800 to $11,000 which is horse crap for me depending on how many times it will be used. This winch has good reviews. Truck Shop
2,500 to 3,000 psi is the range. Truck Shop
The no free spool on the military winch would be really unhandy on the zacklift. The army always has plenty of help around. You're probably by yourself hooking up and such, the free spool would be really nice. I have also seen the old "mechanical" pto oilfield winches converted to hydraulic drive. Hydraulic motor and chain drive, then you could have free spool and air control for it, and the brake. They make a add on remote kit for hydraulic controls like the new wreckers have that's not too expensive, and I would think that would be really handy. You could stand by the back bumper and just watch everything while reeling it up. I couldn't justify that kind of money for a new winch, there's a lot of used oilfield stuff in the oklahoma area by me, so its not to hard to pick something up for $500-1,000. $9,000-$10,000 for me would have to have a truck bolted to the winch. And a pretty decent truck at that......
And if it's used I want to look at it plus the oil field equipment is a little far away for me. The control for the winch is already incorporated with the control valve bank. So basically it's mount the winch and connect the hydraulic hoses. But it's a company truck so the owner is buying it and he's alright with that. Truck Shop
Hang on a second .... This is a "tractor swap" deal correct ? You haul them out a good tractor with the wrecker & bring the dead one back home . Should be an extra truck driver waiting on ya to show up . Back the wrecker up to the dead one and tie in an air hose to the tanks off the wrecker to release & work the brakes . Use a nylon tow strap from the wrecker to the steering axil of the dead truck & pull it out from under the trailer with the driver operating the dead truck . That method would help keep you from having to crawl around under the dead truck . We used to " duct tape " an air line to the tow strap & pull in a dead tractor with another one before we got a wrecker . Took two drivers .
TD I know your trying to help but I have been in the business longer and don't think I haven't already thought of that. The new DT12 Detroit automatic 12 speed transmissions are not to be moved without removing drive shaft or axles period. It will result in major damage to the trans. I have air supply for everything on the tow truck. But I learned along time ago pulling with only chains and straps is not the way to get a job done. I don't rely on nervous truck drivers for help that's a bad idea that's why there driving an automatic to begin with they have a lack of talent. And you don't want to be using a tow chain on a fabricated Hendrickson steer axle. All the trucks come with tow hook bars stowed on the right frame rail by the steer tire anyway. But in the winter time a winch will come in handy for mildly stuck rigs. On this truck it's just an aid. And on top that the owner wants everything done above board because of L&I and liability. But thanks for trying to help. Truck Shop
That's interesting about the transmissions. So in a potentially "stuck" situation, can you pull on one of these? or is it only when you have the truck non running, that you have to disconnect driveline? If you really can't pull on the transmission at all, they better not start putting them in concrete trucks and dump trucks, or it will be ugly. So what gets messed up in the trans? is it forcing flow where it shouldn't because there are electrical solenoids, or pressure valves not opening up? Sorry- I'm just curious and always trying to learn something, all I deal with are old school eatons/ roadranger (I guess I've got a mack too now- but I haven't been into it), nothing to tear up in there pulling one a little.
I know with Allisons they give you a quarter mile or mile or something below 25 mph. I know why Mike is getting his tow truck because back when I did trucks it seemed like if we sent them out after a dead truck without having someone on site telling them to do it, the tow truck drivers would always pretend they did not hear to disconnect the drive shaft and tow it without disconnecting. One time I believe they towed it 50 miles on the freeway to the dealer still connected. I was pretty steamed but nothing we could do until it broke and as far as I know it is still running to this day. They said we ain't got time for that, funny thing because they get paid by the hour.
If a rig is stuck the drive shaft should be removed no mater what. The trans uses synthetic 75X90 14 qts. I'm not sure exactly what goes to hell if it's towed with shaft connected but I have been told by Freightliner service rep's don't do it. A local towing out fit didn't remove the shaft on a DT-12 and towed it from the front 45 some miles it locked up spit the drive shaft on I-84 {luckly no one ran over it} accumulating a repair bill of $29,000 dollars. That's not going to happen while I'm around or have anything to say about it. The info or repair data on that transmission is locked down, I can't touch one other than changing fluid. My day's repairing gear boxes is about over {38 years worth}. Here is a exploded view of a DT-12 Truck Shop
Whatever happened to Braden and Tulsa Winch, they were at one time the acts Meow as to truck mounts? Carco was about the only unit I ever dealt with on HE.
The new cars and pickups they dont have a neutral. If it dosent run it will not roll.I have been junking some that are newer that have to have a battery to be put in neutral.
I don't think i've ever seen a Cycloidal drive on anything industrial. Only ever seen them in use on 3d printed gadgets and home brew automation stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycloidal_drive Edit: Derp, that's a cyclodial pump. Probably the lube pump for the transmission.
[QUOTE="Truck Shop, post: 749332, member: 52801" The reason for the winch is pulling one out from a loaded trailer when the tractor is dead or will not move. And using a wheel lift from the front can be a real problem with all the plastic bumpers. You can not move the Freightliner or Volvo trucks with automatics with out pulling axles or dropping the drive shaft. Truck Shop[/QUOTE] Yeah Truck Shop , I got it you can't move the new automatic trucks a few feet without damaging the transmission . It sounds like your using the same method we would to haul a plastic front tractor with the 750 Holmes . We would have to put air to it & pull it out from under the trailer & grab it from the rear frame rails . And sounds like you need to remove the drive line just to pull it out from under the trailer . Got it ! Where I get confused is after building a new truck with a Zack lift is why you don't just back up to the front & use the Zack on the steering axil to pull it home ? They are made for reaching under the plastic to get to some steel . Do they pull a little funky with the Zack or something you don't like about the steering axil hook up ?
A lot of tractors on 22.5LP you need to either lift the front end up or put blocks under the steer tires to get at the steer axle. Part of it is the low bumpers. Part of it is needing tall forks to stay out of the oil pan.
I have a set of forks that I custom built to fit the Hendrickson fabricated steer axle. I didn't like the ones Zacklift offers. Most of these trucks have set back steer axles with front sump pans, when the air bleeds off from leveling the pans come real close to the reach. So it is just easier to do a rear pick and less hassle. But some will get towed from the front that have high roof and fairing. The wind on reverse tows will damage those. We had one towed that the idiot driving the tow truck used worn out wheel straps to lock it down to the bars. He was turning in to Arrow Head truck stop in Pendleton Or and it broke loose from the lift and drove the reach through the oil pan and busted the plastic bumper all to hell. And that truck just got out of the dealer the day before and they just replaced that oil pan under warranty. Only to have what is called the 1 box fail in the emission system the next day resulting in it getting towed because it went into total de-rate top speed 5 mph was all it would do. The only problem we have had with the DT-12 transmission is it will not go into 1st or reverse after setting over night or after cooling off and that has to do with an actuator pin internally which is covered under warranty. And a few transmission harnesses have failed. So that's the reason for yarding them from under a trailer. And I have some tire stands I custom made for a double pick. Truck Shop
Braden is owned by PacCar and Tulsa Winch owns Ramsey, DP and a few others. Part of the high prices on those winches has to do with the name that's on them. A Ramsey RPH 40,000 lb winch runs in the neighborhood of $10,000 to $11,000, stupid. And you don't want to know the price of a Braden. And I think Braden owns Gearmatic also. Truck Shop
I knew there was a good reason you did not like the front tow . Good thinking on the forks Truck Shop ! I generally like to haul from the front when possible . Take a little extra time on the rigging so ya aint lookin in the mirror when haulin.
These newer trucks-the front valiance and fairings are so low that in order to get the low profile pneumatic oil drain cart under the nose of the truck {drain cart is 8 1/4" high}. We have to have the drop axle down to gain the extra inch for clearance to roll it under there. The reach on the wheel lift is 8 3/4 high resting on the ground- you can barely get the reach and tee bar under there with a load on the rig. Now if the rig is slightly pointed down hill and the tow truck is pointed slightly up hill that really poses a problem- winch it out is the easiest way or your going to rip up some plastic. You have to think of every scenario because you will run into it. On Highway Through Morons it looks easy because their not showing all the details, only so much B.S. you can show in one hour. Truck Shop
I settled it I bought this winch, they had one built ready to ship, should be here next Wednesday. That's still two weeks quicker than the Warn that I have already waited two months for. Plus it has seven tons more pulling power on the first wrap. And it has a Eaton hydraulic motor. Truck Shop
Hope the winch works out good for you Truck Shop . That's pretty nut's how low the plastic rides on the new trucks . Talk the boss into the Zack " wheel lift " option & forget about the unneeded nonsense of today's trucks . Grab it buy the tires ...... http://www.zacklift.com/towing-equipment-accessories-wheel-lift/
That add on extension hangs too far back. You need a tow truck with 380 wheel base to be able to steer. Those are not selling very well and that's the same unit that dropped and damaged ours. Truck Shop
I never was a big fan of a long stretched out tow rig . They get out of there element pretty fast as road conditions get worse . Those 750 Holmes beds on a short truck look better all the time .
Oh I like long wheel base on slick roads, a properly set up truck trailer rig is a snow eating son of a gun. But 300 to 310 wheel base for towing is enough, in tight situations the long wheel base becomes a nuisance. Thanks for your thoughts on this TD. Truck Shop