1. If it's not made is Far East Asia, or Europe. Don't buy it. 2. Just because that bulldozer costs $5,000 to have it imported. Doesn't mean the country of origin has any standards at all on manufacturing equipment. Tolerances between machines/parts can be so different machine to machine, that once it breaks down, you have no way to repair it. Because even the replacement parts will not be within the right tolerances. And no two machines, even of the exact brand/model will have parts that are interchangable... If it's not manufactured in Far East Asia, or Europe. Strongly recommend not buying that equipment to be imported...
What do you mean by Far East Asia? Japan, South Korea Taiwain? China falls in the geographical area too. I have ranted on here for quite some time that there are problems with the things that come from there.
Far East Asia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan...what is not made there nowdays?
Winston cigarettes and Makers Mark bourbon lol ...Oh almost forgot Ruger guns ..
Kentucky Moonshine.
Thats right aint much corn sqeezin goes on in dowtown Bejing .ha ha ...
Had to laugh. I bought a brand new Ruger SR40 at the gun show in Phoenix yesterday. Great pistol in .40 S&W. Opened the case, and there it was, made in Prescott, Arizona. Then I saw the padlock -- made in China.
That was part of Obamas stimulous package ..
Anything NOT produced in Far East Asia or Europe, or the US/North America, should be avoided at all costs... Contractor I was doing work with, bought three dozers and had them imported from Pakistan. All three broke down in the first three hours. What was even worse, no two parts were interchangable. Instead of disecting the three dozers to make at least ONE work. the things down to even the Washers, and even the spark plugs weren't interchangable. They were all sized differently, even though we had the exact same machines. Could we just exchange a link of track from one dozer to the other? Being they are exactly the same machine? Nope... Bolts on one track who too larger compared to the other track. Could we just change the hydraulic pump between the two dozers? Nope.... Tubes for one were so randomly sized, and the bolts to put it into place, were too small. The other contractor, who bought two semi-medium sized Excavators, and were imported from Saudi Arabia, you think they'd be better quality? Nope... They broke down after a half-hour. Both of them did. One had Hydraulic tubes that ruptured out of nowhere, and the alternator blew out 5 mins afterwards, and the other's boom broke (snapped) where it connects to the bucket. Could we change the Alternator and hose lines with the other? Nope... Each one had a different sized alternator. Not only that, they were both wired differently. Same brand, same models, same years of production... Do not ever import equipment from a foreign country if it's in the Middle East.... Ever... $30,000 worth of machinery (because they were bought/imported from the ME) totally garbage. We got spare parts today, the spare parts don't even fit.... For the hose to the hydralics on the broken one, was 3 9/16 of an inch thick. The Hydraulic pump to it, will not fit any hose larger, or smaller than that. Go 3 1/2'' tubes, the pump with blast them apart. Didn't matter how much ducttape and metal pipe connectors we used. To order a custom tube 3 9/16'' in the lengths we need them for the boom/bucket... Would cost $600. Per tube because even John Deere doesn't have a mold to manufacture the tubes on the spot. Even worse, the tube assemblies between the two vehicles, they put the tubes to what goes to what into different plug ins in both of them. Regarding the Excavators especially, we found the bucket connection point snapped, because they configured it only to have ONE spot for a bolt that wasn't even half as thick as it needed to be, and they welded it in. This is all brand new equipment off the assembly. It's like they assembled the equipment from a junkyard... Even looking at the electrical wiring of one, and they changed where the wires are housed, the colors of the wires (like in one dozer they are all black wires. All of them. some even spread throughout the dozer at different lengths, even thickness very) I would give brands, but per TOS of this site, it's against the rules to "bash" a brand. (but nothing about bashing the geographic region they are produced) THus far, anything Middle Eastern produced Heavy Equipment wise, avoid like the plague.
OH and to add INSULT TO INJURY! Not only are the hydraulics and electrical all screwed up. But also, THE FRAMES ARE DIFFERENT!!! We thought earlier today we could just strip 'em down, and modify the pieces to fit as one solid machine... Nope... No can do... The frames to the Dozers alone, guess what? They are connected/welded together from different points. screwed/bolted at different points. ALSO. We found out parts of the Engine that should be bolted together, aren't bolted, but instead, they are SUPER GLUED together. Where bolt hole should be, there is super glue. We thought we could just take out the engine, buy a cummins or a CAT engine or something and put it in... NOPE. Went over specs, we have to totally modify the engine housing. To "take up space", they welded in pieces of metal with no function at all in totally random locations for what it seems, just for the sake of taking up empty space. If a hydraulic tube was too long, instead of shortening the tube, they made metal "hangers" inside the compartments to keep them in place. Some parts welded, some parts superglued, some parts bolted. The gears for the tracks, we noticed as we were looking at the entire track assembly, the little wheels, were all different sizes. between 1/2 and inch to a full inch difference in size when they should have been the same. The Operators seat in just ONE dozer, was SUPER GLUED to the metal bar that stuck up. the dozer was bolted, and the other one beside that, the seat was half super glued, and half welded into place. Niether engine in either of the three dozers are the same construction either... They are as piece meal as the rest of the machines... We literally bought $30,000 worth of scrap metal and copper wire.... DO NOT EVER purchase a Middle Eastern Constructed piece of machinery.
This is good to know, because I hadn't heard of gasoline powered dozers made in Pakistan. It's absolutely amazing that they had different size sparkplugs.
Yeah... The Industrial Revolution has arrived in Pakistan... If only they had an agency that focused on uniformity in their manufacturing industry.... Seriously, you could go to a junk yard, grab random pieces of metal etc. and I can almost garuntee you'd be able to manufacture a better quality in machines.
They use clean burning Natural Gas to make the EPA happy.The different size spark plugs are for the different size cylinders.:lmao
I just laughed so hard I almos tjust started crying lol
Wow, sucks that someone got stuck with a lot of scrap iron. I suppose if they were from a US junk yard they'd at least be some solid parts.
Sounds like a lot of russian influence there too. Not exactly known for quality, design or engineering there either. With the amout of BTU's in natural gas vs. Diesel fuel I can imagine the amount of power they must have and I am sure that you need to hook a tank truck behind them to keep them running any length of time.
wow! i have jerry rigged a bunch of stuff, but i never thought of super-gluing my spark plugs back into my cummins diesel
This is becoming my favorite thread Oh, I do it all the time Q. on the plus side, 3 dozers and 2 hoes for $30,000; you should be able to scrap them and get your money back.
Contractor in charge crunched numbers, (we aren't working the project for a while due to lack of equipment) and called around. To scrap the three dozers and excavators, even with the copper wires that are in ungodly lengths....... Just to put it simply, we are going to be lucky to salvage $22K between all of the equipment. And BTW, even Russian Engineered Machines run forever. AK-47 for instance. As well as the T-54 Battle Tank is still in use by Army's across the world with minimal breakdowns. Pakistan replica's of the AK however, are proned to jamming. A little tid bit of their industrial complex the boss wishes he had known earlier... And for Saudi Arabia, for being hte most "modernized" of the ME countries... when they make Excavators with the same craftsmanship we found in Pakistan manufactured equipment... Yeah...... Anything ME I'd strongly recommend avoiding like the plague. We would've been better off buying Chinese equipment instead.
You are forgetting.Any thing like the AK47 and the T54 Tank is for the Military.If it fails you die and the one who manufactured it dies.Russia does things different than the USA.We just spem Billions whether it works or not.Russia doesn't.
What was the brand name of these ME built machines? What are the machine model numbers? This post just sounds like a lot of BS to me.
If you disassemble the machines and sort them you will realize more in scrap value. Sort the cast iron from the heavy steel, if there is any, sheet metal separate, copper separate, aluminum separate and so it goes. Keep all of the nonmetallics out of it also.
I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard of any equipment being manufactured in Saudi Arabia, that is not say that it isn't! But their are a lot of inconsistencies in this thread.
Never thought of that.... Will do... but how do we determine what's steel and what's iron? And regarding the other guys, Terms of Service ban bashing any one specific brand of equipment. It's why I haven't posted the specific brands.
A Bit Ting Tong 2 weeks ago I had to travel from the U.K. to Hong Kong to do a job, when in Hong Kong I bought some Wood Screws and a Saw plus a few bags of cable ties (Zip Ties), I cut up 3 small bits of their Hong Kong crappy ply sheet, and the saw was blunt, I then tried to screw in the wood screws only to find the heads fell off the screws, I wish I had bought nails??, then I came to use the zip ties, the large ones just seemed to snap off or fall to short pieces, they were to brittle, the thin ties were like elastic bands as you pulled on them they stretched like cling film, my thoughts on China is everything has a crappyness to it, the food was crap the Hotel was Crap (paper thin walls) I would be not keen to buy sweet #/# from ting tong. going back out in a few weeks sadly tctractors
What scares me half to death is the fact that these poor ****s have to do their jobs with that crap. We can avoid it if we want to spend a little more. They likely can't. And they take that junk, build factories and lines with it. Then build the stuff we buy over here. Its no wonder the stuff we get is total crap.
MR. Mechanic. That is simple. If it is a casting it is more than likely iron. Engine block, head, those kinds of things. If it is plate, has been welded together to make a complete piece, or in this case super glued, sheet metal etc. It is steel. If you want to go all the way you disassemble the engine and remove the pistons which are aluminum. Crankshaft should be forged steel, but could be cast from ductile iron.
I dont recall anything in the forum rules against discussion of a machines pros or cons or the mention of brand names. Its done here on a daily basis, otherwise why have a forum about heavy equipment?
Spark Plugs ?? I knew it Briggs&Stratton have took over the world in heavy equipment power ....
SHHHHHHHHHH! That was supposed to be kept secret until ConExpo.
Greg, thank you for the info. None of us knew that LOL Motrack, read the Terms of Service. This entire thread, isn't asking for pros and cons, it's flat out attacking/degrading the manufacturer of the machines. (Geographically, not specifically, to make it specific, would be to give the brands, which would violate ToS of this site)
Good things the stuff we get in the US isn't as bad as that....
I believe you could post anything that can be substantiated by facts. You have some photos or perhaps some corroborating witness statements and I don't believe anyone will complain. Most would praise you for informing all to the hazards. I work in the State of Washington and get around it about as much as anyone. So far I haven't seen any machines made in Egypt, Pakistan or anywhere else in that part of the world make to this state. If they are as bad as you state they would never pass the EPA regulations for the engine emissions and I am absolutely certain they would not get through the ports in Washington state without the proper certifications and paper work. A brand name and a photo would bolster your claims.
Brand for Saudi Arabian Excavators were ITMCo Brand for the three dozers were Millat Bosses ordered them online, had them shipped to America, they past port inspection, had them loaded on trucks, and then we tried using them, creating this mess. Photos will be no good anymore. After taking advice on here, we've broken them down into pieces. They passed inspection. On the outside they looked fine, until you started taking it open and started looking in-depth into them. And then starting to look for things that shouldn't be there.
Forgot to mention, specific Models, Millat C139J-Medium Lift Bulldozer (that was the title, looked pretty sharp, until we realized under the hood it was literally a pile of crap) The Excavators, were ITMCo Ajiha-ba Rondon . Don't know WTH it means, but that was the model of Excavators we got. which turned out to be pieces of garbage as well.
Well Mr. Mechanic I seem to recall you asking the question a few posts ago. As a professional "wrench turner" I certainly would expect you to know the difference. However I have seen other mechanics that have some really really strange ideas what certain things are made from and what you can and can't do with those materials.
To clarify: Given that Mr Mechanic says he was working with the contractor who experienced these problems, I don't see any problems with naming names here. After all, isn't that what happens every time somebody asks advice for a specific problem on a specific model of machine? The intent of the rule is to discourage unsubstantiated allegations based simply on brand preference. If you've seen the problems with your own eyes, it's to everyone's benefit to share that information here. That's why we exist... On edit: And everyone gets to judge for himself whether the testimony presented is credible.
After some searching on the internet I found both companys. Millat is a Pakistan company building tractors under license from Massey Fergson and ITMCo is a company in Iran building tractors under license from Massey Fergson. Here is a link to ITMCo construction equipment showing the product line http://www.itimco.ir/Default.aspx After a quick look at their machine specs I see they use Yanmar, Perkins and Cat engines along with Danfoss hyds. I dont see them being too funky of a machine.
I didn't see any Dozers are Excavators on their website.Like you say just tractors.Only one I seen for Construction was the Marooka and I have used them.Good machines too.
Does not do any good for Massey Fergeson to have a licensee turning out junk. Part of every license agreement I have ever seen is that licensee is required to build the machine to the specification and quality of the OEM granting the license. There are a few allowances for the use of locally obtained parts to be slightly different from that of the OEM as well as metric vs. US standards but not a whole lot more. When the licensee starts doing what is aledged to going on here it is grounds for termination of the license. Unfortunally now the horse is out of the barn and it is to late to slam the door. Sooner or later every licensee an OEM takes on becomes the competition.
I have a theory: I believe that millat and Itmco are victims here, because it is obvious that they didnot build these machines. 1. According to their websites, neither one makes dozers or excavators. If they made them, they would advertise them. 2. It would be nearly impossible to make these machines on an assembly line, because to make machines w/o interchangeable parts requires hand fitting. Every time you install one part you must measure and make the next fit. Thus I believe that these machines were FABRICATED by some individual who just claims they were made by these companies.
If you follow the link I provided you see that ITMCo does indeed make their own machines and it even has pictures of the factory.
Think you miss read, Motrack. I said they probably didn't make THESE machines, i.e. the ones made with superglue, no interchangeable parts and sparkplugs; not that they don't make machines. I had also immediately googled these companies as soon as I saw they were being credited with these failures.
Thank you very much for clarifying.
I'm not an actual Mechanic, just an aspiring one. Still trying to learn the ropes. Regarding the equipment, we got them online from what my bosses say were "Factory Direct". Hense the even lower prices than they would have been otherwise. The Equipment ad the brand/logos on them, and models in clear print engraved on them. But these are the issues we had.
Post a picture...Then you haven't said anything....
Well said. One detailed set of photos speaks louder than 10 threads. Thank you for the thread. If nothing else, it has enlighted me to some more things to look at when considering a machine. I had no idea that machines were being licensed out like that to the middle east.
Unfortunate that's impossible now. Yesterday they got rid of the scrap metal we made the machines out of
Your telling us now that your boss scraped 3 dozers and 2 excavators in less than 7 days? You first posting about this was on the 23rd and today is the 30th. And you dismantled the machines to sort the iron....... a total load of bull in this thread.
:iagree
Read the last line, is it a near freudian slip?
Why do people do it, what kick do they get out of it. Its happened in other threads also, is it just a case of to much time and not enough to do? Beats me.
Uh,Oh; looks like one of my favorite threads may be winding down, too many people are catching on.
Read his Bio, He wants to be a heavy equipment mechanic someday. Think he may be on younger side?
I was starting to think this as soon as he said they decided to scrap them This guy was full of crap from the start ointhead
Thought so to.All my years being around heavy equipment even foreign made I have never heard of these problems.Problems yes but they all have them. I still want to see the spark plugs in the dozer.Probably Champions.
Heres a question for you........ with all the political BS going on between the US and Iran could you even buy a Iranian built excavator and have it shipped here? I know they are useing some Cat engines but is Cat dealing drectly with them or another company that is building Cat engines under a licnese agreement. Are you allowed to do business with a Iranian company?
I think it's still allowed in the land of make believe.....I think.
No< you can't do business with iran!!!
Only the Government can.
ok, whaddya say we put this thread to bed? it seems we have proven the point and scared him off. no need to beat a crippled mule.
night-night
Sorry for the late replies. They are all scrapped. I can't say details because I don't know. One day we spent the entire day dismantling. Next day we sorted what wasn't already sorted during dismantling. Had the pieces loaded onto the trailors, O/Os came by, picked up the trailors, and dropped them off at the destination. returned the trailors. What else do you want me to say? But the machines are gone now.
I don't run bosses finances, or how long it took to get here. But he did order them online. I know nothing more than that information.
And if it makes you gents feel better, you'd be amazed how fast it is to dismantle a vehicle with torches. Total income was $27,300 so we only lost $2,700.
:BangheadDid the boss get $2,700.00 dollars worth of education out of it? Some how I doubt it. These kind of people never seem to learn that when you quit hitting your head on a concrete wall it does not hurt any more. Oh ya, BUY AMERICAN:usa
To my knowledge he just as an Accounting Degree... No idea how much it cost I only know is he got a buyer for the scraps after I asked him after getting advice on here on what to do with it.
How did you go about draining all the hoses, lines, fittings, and valves before scrapping the machines without making an EPA mess?
We didn't drain anything... Just threw it all in together... Boss said the place he's selling it to will deal with it.
Buzz Killer .. in buckets of course ..
Ummm, no, try again big fella. Your words in post #65; And if it makes you gents feel better, you'd be amazed how fast it is to dismantle a vehicle with torches. If you did that...you got some oil on the ground. Just sayin.
Correction to previous statement, when we were ripping some of the machines apart to see what else was screwed up with them, they were being drained. Boss wanted to use the hydraulic fluid in them since they were junk anyway, we also re-used most of the oil. We also re-used the fuel
I don't think we emptied that much, parts still had some oil and stuff in them, but it wasn't bad. At least I don't think it was.
umm, we really need to put this one to bed. mr mechanic, please understand one thing. atco is a real mechanic. we all respect him. and, i think we ALL call shenanigans. so, walk away and realize you have been bested. .
Well then, no wonder you had problems with the machines...hydraulic machines don't run on air!
Good night John Boy ....Good night Mary ellen....
So you sold 90 tons of scrap??
Yeah, this thread has run it's course and needs to be put in the archives.:cool2