A general question or maybe a math brain teaser? I have a piece of equipment with a 10-12 gallon metal fuel tank. Clean diesel put into it and ran until about a 1/4 of a tank of fuel left in it. Then...it was parked for 2.5 years. Left in a shed open on three sides during this time. Roof good. No leaks. Four season area of the US. High temperature & humid summers. (Sometimes mid 90's with 90% humidity) Winter temperature cold snaps of freezing temperatures here and there. (Average low in January of 31F & Average High 47F) Question: Will there be water in the tank? Why? Why not? How much? (Estimate) Thanks.
Yes A **** ton Because the air space inside yhe tank will condensate
I will add, the tank (when left almost empty like the OP's) will breath, every day with the changes in air temp. So it keeps breathing in new, wet air.
Besides the fuel that's left turning dark with critters.
Ok. That leads to the next question. I emptied the glass bowl at the lift pump into clear cup. Then downstream, I emptied the glass moisture collector beneath the filter into another clear cup. I emptied that filter into another clear cup. Continuing downstream, I emptied the next filter into another clear cup. And I drained the first cup from the tank into another clear cup. Then drained the rest of the tank into a bucket. Allowed all to settle for about an hour. Zero visible water in cups. Then I tested all fuel in each cup, and the bucket, with a new tube of Gasoila water detection paste. No water detected in anything. Why? (I don't buy "luck". And I also checked the paste with water to confirm it works FYI. It does.)
you got lucky--better by a lotto ticket, if you don't vetech will get it. lol
All the filters were full of fresh fuel when parked. No room for condensation to creep in.
That’s why they say fill everything to the max when sitting for extended periods. No room for wet air.
I've pulled/inspected tanks on equipment, only time we've had much water was due to rain or snow leaking in.
So here’s my thing. Most diesels have an easy drain on the bottom of the tank. Just drain the tank, put in fresh diesel with an additive, and doesn’t worry about anything again. Change both filters. Sometimes diesel breaks down and makes a varnish. It’s way cheaper and should be done anyway. Just my 2c lol
I feel like I'm being interviewed. Is this some kind of knowledge test?
No, not a knowledge test. Not sure I even have enough knowledge to test anyone on anything. But I do ask questions when something doesn't make sense to me or I just haven't figured it out. The consensus seems to be a sitting piece of diesel equipment with low fuel in the tank will absolutely develop water in the tank. However, as my testing above shows, I can't find any at all under the conditions I ran into which seems like the perfect scenario to prove half empty tanks develop water. Got me wondering if the consensus that this happens is wrong, and what's really going on is we actually introduce moisture/water into tanks through contaminated filling, then come to an incorrect conclusion that moisture gathers in an unfilled tank? Would a tank half filled with diesel eventually fill completely with half water through condensation gathering? This would take several years of course. If the theory holds true that a tank gathers condensate, then it HAS to eventually completely fill. But I've never seen it. Have others?
No, as the tank fills with water it breathes less.
Too much overthinking here
Have I seen gas / fuel tanks with water in them from concentration yes. Can I predict what tank will have water no. Run it, if it dies there's water in the fuel Water might be least of the problem though.
My 'old' 310b had an issue pop up after I first got it... after some 'low pressure' pressure washing, I opened up some pin holes in the fuel tank underside.... Drained and removed the 'valve' to pull out the tank for repair. My set up has a 'stand off' as part of the valve(shut off) assembly internal, which will leave space for sediment/water at the bottom.... which would explain the corrosion . That should keep the condensate from entering the system (?) hence the lack of water in the OP's filters? Anyway.... I got the tank patched and lined..... no issues since. and over the winter I keep the tank filled..
Some tank vents work better than others, the less air they let in the less water they let in. I have seen 45 gallon drums sitting for 10 years with both bungs in them and 90 % full but they were getting the odd water on top that would of been sucked inwards. Just because there is no water in filters yet does not guarantee there is non in the bottom of the tank. A pail vacuum with a plastic pipe to the bottom is a good way to check and make sure the bottom is good. Simon C
Kinda makes me think…. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Everyone knows, all of it.....
When I worked in heli-camps near Stewart BC and also the Toodoggone the pilots always had emergency caches of Jet B stashed in various locations. Standard procedure was to keep the 45 gallons drums laid down sideways on the ground. Tipped somewhat up on 'dunnage' for easier uprighting. I have also seen significant water into nearly full drums over winter/s (bungs tight...) After running terribly my boss drained the tank (gasoline) on his Tacoma---full of water! We then got some 'dipping' paste; this was painted on a long piece of lathing and would turn color if water was at bottom of barrel. We were shocked to see some barrels of diesel/gasoline had up to 5 gallons of water at bottom! In future seasons all barrels were right full/tipped on side. Both these camps were in heavy snow/high humidity climates...
Remember, I emptied each filter, and separator into different cups. I then disconnected the line at the tank and filled one cup from there before emptying the rest of the tank in a bucket. The cup drawn directly from the tank and the remaining amount drained from the tank showed no water and tested no water. Recap: Diesel tank Metal 10-12 gallon capacity 1/4 full when parked *I should also mention no magical stabilizers or anything put in it. Sat idle in dry shed for 2.5 years. No water found anywhere.
LOL! Someone on this forum has to be screwing with us.
Does seem that way!
No sir.
Moisture can develop anywhere, inside of anything. I just finished a rebuild this morning of a A727 Chrysler automatic. This transmission was all original never been into since 1978. Was removed from car this last August, had been setting idle for probably 20 plus years. It was full of atf and a little over full in valve body area because of torque converter drain back, a common issue with 904/727's. Anywho, most of the steel components like carrier, and clutch drums had light surface rust, nothing bad but it was still there. 855 Cummins that have been setting even covered inside a building have a tendency of condensation collecting around rocker boxes, jake heads, rocker covers and sometimes on inside of block & crank, a thin layer of rust develops from sweating. It's just a matter of time. At the tip of arrows--that brown area is rust. *
Don't need any magic paste to find water in any of those samples, just tilt cups on edge to see visible water in corner of cup if not already apparent on bottom. Looks like 6th grade science project. You aced it Mr. Wizard. Somebody is just really bored.
Huh? What warranted this response? Why are you angry?
Uhm maybe because you asked a question, and now you are telling us we are all wrong ? Feel free to tell me I'm all wrong as well.
Gotcha. I can see that now. No harm intended. I have always heard the standard answer that unfilled diesel tanks on a sitting piece of equipment always accumulate water. But recently I challenged that and wasn't able to prove it to be true. Thought others might be able to show it to be true, not be true, or share experiences. Some did. Guess I could have presented it better. Thanks.
There are countless threads on here of water contamination in fuel, one about every six months on average.
The only way to prevent water from getting into any kind of container is by preventing any liquid water or, water in a vapor form such as air through a vent or vented filler cap. I remember a truck mounted crain that had the fuel (gasoline) tank inside the cabin and the vented filler cap was outside on the roof. Some mornings it had as much as 1/2 cup of water in the sediment bowl. The amount of water varied depending how hot it got during the day and how cool it got at night.
Or suck it out with a pump or fluid extractor. Did that to hydraulic oil on my forklift that the drain plug is seized and I wasn't opening that can of worms.
I've never seen anything have that much water that wasn't from rain or snow. I've pulled tanks on 20-30yr old stuff that at most had 1/2 a teaspoon. Only times I've had issues was an excavator kids broke the fuel cap off, stole the fuel twice and it rained a bunch before we found it (maybe 4-5 days) and a skid steer that we used old hydraulic oil pails to bring fuel to and ended up 1 pail was cracked and had probably a gallon of water in it. (Our diesel is clear, looks just like water, so hard to notice while pouring) I run like Hot Shots EDT, etc in my bulk tank, maybe it's picking up the water in tanks??
I put a bottom drain on my bulk tank. It's never been full (can't afford it!). Not been anything but a bit of rust sediment (tank is probably 50 years old)
There is nothing angry about the response, just a realist. "And that's all I got to say about that"
Not really...