The Oil in my Case 580 D Hydraulic System has what appears water in it, the oil is milky??? To change the oil its 12.5 gallons, but there will still be some left over water in the lines and cylinders, any one have a suggestion on the best way to clean out the residue water in the system without wasting too much Hydraulic oil?????
there is only one way to ensure you have cured the problem and that is drain and flush,stop water contaminating your new oil,
Thank you for the reply, any suggestions on the best way to flush?
There is no "easy way" unfortunately. if you want to get rid of the contamination all the oil in the system has to be drained, and that includes what's in the lines, control valves, and cylinders. Make no mistake, it's a big job - well not necessarily big but fiddly getting the last of the contaminated oil out of all the nooks and crannies in the system. After you've done that successfully you then have to tackle why it got there in the first place. Tank cap, tank breather, oil just plain left in there too long..? Remember that hydraulic oil will absorb water over time just like brake fluid, that's why you change it at a certain frequency when doing a PM.
question about a flush Doi you have any suggestions on "how to flush" the system. There is 12.5 gallons in the tank and I would assume I could flush with less??? Thank you for your reply Don
Thank You for your Reply. Could you suggest any method to flush, there is 12.5 gallons in the tank, and I would assume you could flush with less?? Don Bogdan Santa Cruz
This thread and the links in it will give you all the information you will need.
The Water? Thank you for the information. My 580 D was stored for 12 years outside, and just brought back to life. Everything works so far, except the oil in the brake pads which I am addressing, Now in the process of changing all the fluids, I understand removing the fluid from the Hydraulic Cylinders, but was wondering about the Hydraulic pump? If I drain the 12.5 gallons and replace with 12.5 the fluid just in the pump will contaminate. So is there anyway to run less than the 12.5 gallons, lets say just 5 gallons to flush the Hydraulic pump??? So as to not waste so much fluid??? Don Santa Cruz
Does the water come to the top or bottom of hyd oil? If top, then you might go thru the fill hole to suction some off the top. Then refill and run it some. Let it settle overnight then do it again. I never tried this, just a thought... If it worked you might then change all that is left in the tank and save wasting all except 4 or 5 gallons. I don't think it would pump properly if you tried to add only 5 gallons to flush it with.
Oil is lighter than water so water would settle to the bottom. Generally speaking, weights per gallon are as follows: Water = 8.0 lbs per gallon Oil = 7.5 Diesel = 6.7 Gasoline = 6.0 In theory, if left to settle, water would migrate to the bottom of the tank and it could be drained out a "sump". This is done with diesel and gas all of the time (in aviation anyways), it should be able to be done with oil too, but I have not heard of it being done (with oil). The theory is there though. The 2 liquids would separate faster the farther their specific gravities are apart (gas vs water) and would take longer the closer thier specific gravities are together (oil vs water). After re-reading Nige's post above and below, he has given what is the best practical answer. His sound practical experience (reality) beats theory anyday! Insert genuine tones if not clear.
Please note. if the oil has gone milky then the water has been absorbed into the it and will not settle out to the bottom of the tank however long you leave it. As I said above, a fiddly procedure to drain all the oil, every hose on the machine has to come off. Don't worry about what's in the pump, it'll only be equivalent to a couple of tablespoons. You have to get the old oil out of the cylinders though.
With this I suppose you could "try" letting it settle good and drain only maybe a gallon out. Refill and let it run working all the cylinders, then let it settle again. After 3 or 4 days drain it all and refill. If you try this let us know if the oil gets any less "milky" as you progress. Changing the oil 3-4 times might be necessary if the mix will not settle as he says. Even if you waste $500 in oil, it might save you in the long term. The real issue is to find and stop the leak. Rubber boots on the gear shifter?
Looking into it further, I found this article on separating water and oil: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/503/water-oil-removal A person could fiddle fart around doing all of this (all of this apparatus and time costs $ too), but if it were me, based on $10 / gallon for new oil, I couldn't get $125 - $500 out of my pocket quick enough to just buy new oil and get back to work at something to pay for it - essentially what Nige said......
Here we can get bargain trans hydraulic fluid for under $30, and mystic for $40/5gal. So how much is your time worth? You could take all the hoses off, work the cylinders, blow everything out, etc, and get 99% of the water. I "raise" all the functions, drain the tank, take off the filter, empty the buckets and put a bucket under each, then lower the functions one at a time. I think this gets most of the oil out of the cylinders (except stabilizers, swing and steering). Then add 5-10 gallons of cheap oil, start the unit at idle and work the functions that didn't drain, and work the others, work all the functions several times if you have enough fluid, shut off immediately if the hydraulics loose power. Drain, and repeat or fill it up and be done. You could also drain the oil, and remove the water, then use the same old oil to flush it. Somebody on here mentioned heating the oil up past the boiling point of water to dry it out, or use a vacuum pump (refrigeration). Depends on what your time is worth to you and what you can get oil for.
Please note Nige's remarks in post # 10. What he stated is an absolute true fact. Once the oil has absorbed any water you have no other options except to COMPLETELY flush the entire system with clean oil. It only takes a small amount of water to contaminate the system. The system flush is cheap compared to replacing a hydraulic pump. The first thing that has to be done is determine how the water got in the system and eliminate the source. I learned the hard way that draining contaminated oil here and there and adding new oil was a waste of time and money. The entire system has to be done all at the same time.
I want to thank everyone for their reply, all will be listened too! OK, just got price for new Hydraulic Oil, I need 12.5 gallons and that will cost $212 plus tax, and to use that to flush the system a couple of times adds up??? but probably necessary, no way around it, but with all the attachments removed, do I really need to fill the tank with the full 12.5 gallons, could just putting 5 gallons in there work for a flush??? Can anyone give me a hint on the quanity I need just to use the front loader, and the enclosed Hydraulic system???? Don Santa Cruz
Thank you, for your reply, and you are right, I am sure, but with all attachments remove and just the loader, and with 12.5 gallons in the tank, for all attachments, what do you think I could get by for a flush, do I need all 12 gallons or could I flush with just 5 gallons, then deal with the attachments later??? Don Santa Cruz
best bet in long run is using the link in post#7 which is posted by oldseabreeze
You asked for the "best" way, and Nige gave you the best way to deal with contamination. I bet Nige spends more on maintenance in a day than you or I spend in a lifetime. It sounds like you want to flush this a couple of times and move on, go for it. Nobody will think less of you for not spending thousands on a machine that may not be worth it. Are you saying you have the backhoe off of the tractor? If that's the case, you can probably get a greater percentage of the fluid out of the tractor, but then when you hook the backhoe back up you'll reintroduce water (possibly rust from the water sitting) if you don't flush that oil. You may be able to "flush" with 5 gallons each round, put 5 gallons in and start it up, you won't do any damage in the couple of seconds it takes to know if you need more fluid. It's still important to get as much fluid out as possible. Say you take everything apart and get 99%of the old oil out one way. If you flush and get 90%, then repeat, you'll get 99%. If you only get 50% of the oil with each flush, you'll have to flush 7 times to get 99% of the oil out.
you have to bite the bullet and make sure your hydraulic system is clear of any contamination, there is no easy way sadly.Do as Nige has suggested and you will be fine, failure to do a proper job means more trouble in the future
Thanks for the vote of confidence ...!! We generally talk in telephone numbers simply because our equipment's so big. Hydraulic oil we currently use about 3500 gallons a month.
If the hydraulic TANK holds 12.5 gallons, conservatively the remainder of the system will hold another 12.5 gallons. That is 25 gallons of contaminated oil. Then add to that a small amount of clean oil you that you will lose when you do the flushing operation. Remember you have to flush all the circuits until you have clean oil coming out. Also the cylinders have to be extended and retracted to get them clean. It should be a two person operation so that you can stop the flow of clean oil as soon as it appears, coming out of the lines and cylinders. In regards to the attachments that are off the machine/ if one of them is a backhoe it would be best to reattach it and flush it at the same time you do the tractor. Otherwise you are wasting your time and money because you will recontaminate everything again. When / if you do the flush drain and fill the hyd. tank with clean oil and then keep it full while doing the procedure.
Wow:eek2 That would be like 763) 55 gallon drums, or 8400) 5 gallon buckets per year. If I am understanding your post correctly my respect level for your post just went way up! You should have your own recycling operation...
Thank you again for the advise. I drained the oil, lots of water in the bottom of the tank, and refilled with 5 gallons and ran that for a few minutes operating all the cylinders. 5 gallons was just enough to run everything with no attachments. I have now drained that oil it was pink, so now going to run another 5 gallons, hope that cleans up the remaining water. Cheers Don Santa Cruz
this is what I did, and when I got it where it is more oil than mud I stopped. Im still running it till I think it needs to be changed again.make sure you check it before you use it every time.