How exactly does a self loading tanker work? from the pics it looks like the large pipe on the drivers side (with the cam lock cap) is an auxillary suction line. Let's just say you back up to a pond for loading. Does the suction end need to be primed or could the pump generate enough vacuum to draw the water in? does anyone have any knowledge about these setups? It will be a week before I get my hands on this thing in so all I have to work with are these pics for now. :beatsme
If you do not empty the tank each time but leave a little in it then you can back fill (prime) the suction line before you start pumping from your own tank. Most pumps unless wore out can draw at least 6' of head. the lower and farther away the water source is the longer it takes to get the water flowing without priming. Make sure there are no leaks in the succession line or it will take forever if it primes at all.
Thanks for the info. makes sense. I never would have thought of that. :drinkup
Serv, Im not familiar with this trailer. Looks heavy,and like it may have a small diesel powered vacuum pump,although I can't see the pump. If that's the case there shouldn't be any trouble priming. They pull a vacuum on,or pressurizes up the tank. Pumps air,not liquid like a shop vac. The tank isn't like the old vac tanks I remember,too oval and no ribs. But the plumbing seems that way. The big 4" hose on the bottom is a heavy wire reinforced suction hose.
From the description on the auction, the pump is a 650 gpm, 4 cyl cummins water pump. You can see the two duckbill shaped discharged nozzles on either side on the back. the big 4" heavy wire hose that runs down between the middle of those looks to me like a bypass in case both discharge nozzles are turned off. that pressurized water would need somewhere to go in that case. They can be turned off by a remote control panel that you take to the cab with you. Pretty sure this isn't setup like a vacuum tank, but you never know! here's a pic of the both panels. the lower one is remote for the cab. I bought this for dust control and we got our first huge rain in month's the next day. go figure.
Looks like there is a switch labeled "lift". Most likely that is your primer. It may be a 12v starter driven pump or may be vacuum off of the exhaust. I'm betting starter motor driven. What kind of pump is it? Who built it? Hale, Darley?
If you are talking about the top left label, I think that is "left" and "right" for the nozzle control. The manufacturer is "Klein Products". I couldn't find this on any of their two websites. Although the guy I spoke with at the manufacturer couldn't tell me anything about this one but said they just sold a very similar one to a parks and rec. dept. a few weeks ago. There is a 12v starter and a battery on this setup. The guy watching it at the base says he hit the starter and the engine turned but he stopped short of firing it up. I also see a glow plug light, water level low light, ignition switch, start switch, also and engine rpm switch. hard to tell from the small pics they took. the man said that the trailer looks better in person than the pics show which is rare. I guess we will see
Ok, but chances are the pump is made by a manufacturer and re-labeled for Klein, few companied build their own pumps. Do you know if it is gear pump or impeller? A gear pump is self priming, and depending upon set-up a centifugal pump may be self priming, but usually one that size has a primer. Do not run it with no water trying to prime until you find out what you have. Some pumps will self-destruct the seals if run dry.
Is this the company? http://www.kleinproducts.com/parts.php Might be able to get a ops manual. For parts, components and/ or accessory inquiries: Contact: Vicki Lewis Local Telephone: (909) 460-4546 Facsimile: (909) 460-4545 Toll free Telephone: (800) 646-4546 E-mail: Please fill out our Feedback Form Hours: 8:00 am- 5:00pm PST Please check this page again soon. A major parts department site with product data, dimensions, part numbers and on line purchasing options is currently under construction and close to completion.
That is good info. I will certainly find out in less than a week. Klein is the manufacturer of the trailer. I sent a man at Klein photos to see if he could tell me if its a self loader. I do recall the manufacturer rep telling me that this one could be run dry for a couple of minutes without any real damage. This was his response to me telling him the caretaker tried to turn the engine over. Im with you though, I wouldn't want to run this at all without water in the system. What i'll do is take it down to the water tower first thing and fill her up with city water. Then I can mess with it while it's full.
yea I called them first and they asked me to contact Klein in Kansas. The guy in Kansas only told me that it is a KRR3000 rig. He responded to every question I had for him with "that's an option" on all of our trailers. He couldn't really tell me anything specifically on this particular unit. I then emailed him asking for a brocure on the KRR3000 this is the kansas website. it's mostly under construction http://klein-tanks.com/
If it has a primer there should be a small tube or pipe coming from the top of the impeller case that runs to either the exhaust or a pump with a valve or some other way to operate it. If it is mechanical/exhaust, it will be obvious. Same with starter/vane primer. If it has no primer backflush priming may be the way it is set-up, but seems unlikely to me. I have back-flush primed fire trucks numerous times, but it is un-reliable. Just had to do it at a working fire 2 months ago where we were first due and the primer failed while trying to draft from a dump tank. Luckily I found that out before I ran out of water in my on-board tank.
Thanks for all the help atgreene. I'll update this thread as I hopefully move forward with this. :drinkup Being you're a fire man, could you recommend a nozzle/hose setup for me to put on this? I see about a 1 1/4" pressure line with a ball valve on the top pic that looks like it may be for that. Or maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself again. :drinkup
Should be 1 1/2", that is the standard. Depending upon the pressure the pump puts out that will determine your nozzle. This may be a low pressure pump made for volume. If it's high pressure than a typical fire dept. auto nozzle will work well. We'll need to know more info to tell for certain. Somewhere on that unit will be a plate with all the info. Should say 650 gpm at ___PSI at ____RPM. May then list 400 gpm at ____ PSI at ____RPM. That is how you test the pump to see how much wear it has. The rpm's should be whithin limits to make a certain pressure at a certain flow rate. Good luck.
Well I finally hauled this in and took some better photos. I don't have any suction hose yet but I top loaded her at the local city water spout. It took about 50 or so quarters to fill it up. we got the engine to start and managed to get the nozzles to discharge but not by using the in-cab controls. I think something is gunked up or there is some debris in the solenoids, but I can take care of that later this evening. This thing was definitely sitting for a long while but the little cummins engine runs like a top. The lower pipe that I thought was for a fire hose was not. It looks like it doubles as a gravity discharge as well as it could be used to fill the tank under pressure. The fire hose connection is the valve with the red top. The big 4 incher definitely is a suction line for the purpose of loading. I don't see a way to prime it other than maybe the water in the tank. There isn't any info anywhere on the pump indicating it's flow rates and or pressures. I don't know if it is a gear pump or not. can you tell anything by the pics? Any recommendation on the best 4" suction hose to acquire? I would imagine anything 4" is gonna be pricey.
few more pics
Nice looking set up. Does the picture gram in your 3rd photo describe the various operations ? it is hard to tell due to the light.
Thank you, I'm very happy with it so far. It even has some sort of rhino lining coating on the inside of the tank to protect it from rust. Maybe these photos will show up better for you. Is does describe the various operations and valve settings for each.
So have you got hold of any 4" suction hose to try self loading or are you still top filling. Have you got your head around the valves and different options? have you tried them all? I remember an ex employer aquiring an ex military fuel bowser that was duly painted and delivered to site where it was duly filled with fuel. Nobody had thought to a) work out how to get fuel out of it or b) test it :Banghead. Two rear mounted hose reels were the mutts nuts, but no bloody use if you couldnt get fuel out of um
I bought 40' of 4" suction hose and a strainer with a one way flap valve in it. I found out yesterday that this is not a self priming setup. The only way I could load out of the pond was to set the pump up for spraying after the hose was on then I moved the valves to load and it loaded up. I loaded her up twice yesterday and it took around 12 minutes for 5000 gallons. It took about 15 minutes to discharge 3/4 of the tank while spraying. But the important thing is it worked!
more pics
Looks like it lays down a nice pattern for dust control. That is a good load time for a big tank. Are you only doing your own road or are you planning on contracting out? We are finally getting some rain today. The local town has spent as much time hauling brine to wet the roads as they have grading them. Dust has been terrible this spring!
Thanks. I'm doing a haul road for my scraper that we haul dirt with on a daily basis. I will also be doing some roads for the landowner that's lending me his nice big lake that's pictured above. Our dust was so bad yesterday that just the water hitting the ground was causing a dust storm, lol. We've been experiencing a bad drought down here. Zero rain for several months. Then the day I hauled my tanker down (last week), we get an inch of rain. I spent this entire past weekend and worked a bunch of small bugs out of the pump system. Not even one hour after I discharged the second load of water yesterday evening, we got 2 inches of rain. In fact, it hasn't stopped raining since last night. I guess that's just the way life works. :beatsme
fire pump lift I have a pond to enlarge and I was thinking about making a bigger pump to do this. I have a good JD 4 cyl engine and a fire pump, that came off the front of a 1960 fire truck. My question is, if I would hook those two together, does this pump have any lift capacity to pump a pond. I would guess, about 20ft. Thanks for any info
Depending upon the type of pump it should work just fine. Are you drafting 20' or pumping uphill 20'? 20' is pushing it for draft hight, especially on an old pump. It also drastically reduces the capacity of the pump the higher you draft. Get the steamer port as low to the water as possible for the best efficiency.
Keep the pump as close to the water level as possible and it should push it no problem. they don't like much over 10-12 ft draft height but can push a fair head height.
pumping If I put the unit together, I will be trying to suck/draft water about 20ft. If everyone thinks, it may not work I dont want to go through the trouble I think its a 3" pump
20' is a lot of lift. The pumps seals and packings will need to be in real good shape to do it. And unless you run a venturi suction line your draft loss will be signifigant. Not sure I would try it.
pumping Does anyone have a good guess on the lift capacity of what Im trying to do. Sounds like, I might be wasting my time doing this project.
If you can get the pump closer to the water level, it will work a lot better. Pumps can push water a lot better than the can pull it. That pump should be able to push 25ft of head pretty easy, but only 10 or so draft. Espeacally since it is a fire truck pump, there kinda designed to be force fed by the water system.
pumping Thanks Guys, I think I have canceled that idea, but thanks for the input