I have been turning wrenches for two decades and I did my best to avoid working for a dealer. In that time I have been in the mining industry, a contractor, private shops, and construction. I even worked on forklifts to avoid working for a dealer. Not that I have any real problems with dealerships. It's just that in my market dealers pay the least because they have all the tooling, technical information, and training. That they figure why hire someone with experience when we can hire a kid and train him for cheap. Anyways I enjoyed the school of hard knocks and the things that some old timers showed me as I came up in the business. And now I am the old timer teaching the next generation. So in a need for insurance I took a job with the local Volvo dealer. I have to say that I am liking it. I am getting a great wage and there will be training and travel. My only dilemma is whether to work in the shop or in the field. Any advice and pros and cons any of you are willing to share are appreciated and welcomed. This forum is the best I have came across and the knowledge on here is mind blowing. I've sold out and I don't care.
if i were in your situation i think indoors would be my choice. depending upon what part of the country
Depends if you like working in the mud, dirt, snow and crappy weather or if you'd rather have the creature comforts in the shop. Also if you prefer to work alone without having someone always watching over you.
I live in Texas so we only have two seasons. Summer and almost summer. So I really don't have to worry about cold or snow. My thoughts are if I am in a service truck I would probably be away from home a lot. The overtime would be a huge blessing but I don't want to leave for work and my little girl is asleep and then get home and she would be asleep. The service manager said that I can set my hours within reason. But I have a tendency to just go and go with no regard for my personal needs. On the other hand is if I work in a shop I would need to buy a decent toolbox. And those aren't cheap. I have been in the field for over ten years and I am now currently working out of cheapy boxes which will probably not hold up for long. I also feel that working in a shop is much more work than being in the field. Those are the biggest issues. So I'm having you guys to throw scenarios at me to help me remember what the pros and cons are. So that I can make a informed decision and not a emotional decision. Thanks for the feedback thus far.
That would be a tough decision for me. I have done field work for over 30 years and never liked the shop atmosphere. I got bored doing shop work.....always the same place, the same people, and the work eventually became mundane. Field work was always my deal, but with old age coming on strong I am starting to feel pains I am not recovering from. Being that I have been self employed for all of those 30 years also has me very engrained in my freedom and independence. I work better on my own than with others and have the ability to think outside the box well. The heat of the summers and cold of the winters are my biggest problems now, along with some nagging past injuries that have a tendency to show up more often than they used to. Shop or field? I feel for you brother. I would have to stick with what I know and do best.
Why not try to leverage your age and experience and be "the guy that everyone asks" when they're stuck.? So maybe work in the shop but go out every once in a while to all those jobs that none of the other techs can diagnose.? Is that an option.?
Having been in your shoes more than once, here is my cost benefit analysis. The dealers get the kind of jobs that no one wants or can do plus warranty work. It used to stay pretty interesting. In the seventies a shop wrench had to do what ever came along, general tear down and assembly, rebuilding components, welding and fabrication, pre-delivery and general troubleshooting. Now days each of those areas go to certain people who have been pigeon holed. That involves politics and whether or not the shop foreman feels threatened by you. Like it or not you will be pigeon holed eventually and the types of jobs assigned will fall into a single category. The other part of working in a shop that I had the biggest problem with was concrete floors. My feet ended up killing me after a couple of months to the point of losing sleep at night. Most of the shop foremen are good people and they are only going by human nature. The people who can do the tough projects always get them. Those that can't end up with the gravy, because that is all they can do. And when they lose money on a job, their time is shifted internally to any job that is making money. Basically those that are good end up carrying the dead weight. It might not matter to you at first. It will grate on you over time like a burrowing insect getting under your skin. The field is where the best wrenches really shine. To me, that is the top of the profession. You not only can handle yourself with the wrenches, but you also have learned about company policy and how to apply it to customers, how to handle customers, understand billing processes, usually you are the safety officer on a project, you are also a project manager and so on so forth. It is a job with a ton of responsibility and commitment. What goes with that are huge demands on your time and it takes a lot away from your family. The territory the dealership covers will give you a hint on how much time you will be away from home. Get a map and make points on it showing the limits of the territory you will be expected to work in. Figure the miles from your base to each point in the square and then look at the types of customers at those points. You can just about figure that a drive of more than and hour and a half is going to entail a night or two in a motel. Four or five big companies with lots of your equipment more than an hours drive away might mean you are sleeping with bed bugs for more than a week a month. Last field truck i was in for a dealer put me on the road at least two weeks a month. The doesn't count the trips out of state that got thrown on top of the truck time. One last thing, the money in the field is great but a lot of it gets eaten up in taxes. You have to plan for it.
I’m a little biased towards the shop position. I just started my 40th year as an equipment mechanic. All of them with dealerships. 38 of them in the shop. I would go with the suggestion Nige made and see if you could take on a mentor role. That is what I do at our shop. You get involved in all kinds of issues you might not get exposure to on a day to day basis. Just make sure the boss understands that with the interruptions from the shop guys and calls from field guys the efficiency on your own repairs suffers. Fortunately for me my boss understands that. Good luck with your decision!
Half my career has been in dealerships. I'll take that over a fleet or independent shop any day. In my experience, pay is better, benefits are better and the work is better.
I love working as a dealer tech. Product support, regular training, being kept up on current tech. Nothing better in my opinion. I will never be a contractor tech, those guys get wrung out. First on the job, last to leave, and there all night trying to unf@ck what the operators f@ck up all day so its ready for the next day. I can work 8s every day and be happy as a clam. I can also put in a couple extra if I want. I gotta admit, I'm a bit jealous, you got picked up by my brand of choice. (Volvo just makes so much sense to me.) I have no complaints with my current employer. I think you're going to be happy. Field or shop, you're in TX so, no freezing cold, snow and ice. I'd go field. As for your toolbox dilemma, craigslist is full of tools and equipment that less determined individuals need to get rid of. They realized that they were in the wrong career after spending all this money and debt into stuff they can no longer use.
Everyone is happy where they are at in their working life......kudos to you all!
One way to gauge the difficulty of a job is accountability. The more accountable a job is the more difficult it is. So who are you accountable to? Or how many people are you accountable to. I was once offered a job where I would have 3 bosses. I declined. If you work at a dealer, you are not only accountable to the shop foreman, but the customer. So you have 2 entities to keep happy. If you work for a fleet or construction company, there is only one entity. In some cases more bosses could be easier than less if they are pushovers, but if someone is paying an invoice on work you did, pushovers get hammered by their bosses until they aren't pushovers anymore. I worked in the offshore oil industry. I could have worked for a contractor, an oil company or a drilling company. I chose to work directly for those who owned the oil and gas wells because they were the deepest pockets. Another thing that makes jobs difficult is the number of people who work there. If you are a people person (most mechanics aren't), it might not matter, but to the rest of us the more people on a job the more stress. A dealer is a great place for a young mechanic to learn a lot and fast. I would have been a better mechanic if I had worked around a lot of senior mechanics in my early years.
Our field guys are subjected to hard work in the field. Undercarriage, major component R&I, landfill work (eww), the oversized equipment that doesn’t come to the shop. They are also expected to supply even the larger hand tools. They basically get a couple oring kits, a Deutsch connector kit, and a slide sledge and maybe a 1” impact and they supply the rest except for specialty tooling checked out of toolroom in the shop you get to drop bellypans with a floor jack, have shade overhead, a wash rack, no working over or on Saturday’s (usually) and the toolroom is right there. No DOT man, no MSHA man, no customers with bad attitudes breathing over your shoulder or wanting you to come work on it when they are shut down for the night, or on the weekend or shut down for rain. my view on it is if you want to work your butt off with lots of OT go field, if you want more stable go shop
Last place I was at I was in a truck. For an extra $1.50/hr to deal with all the extra crap I'm glad I left.
Most of the shops around here are on 6 10 hours days from the end of March to the end of October. Field work is for overtime pay and any more straight pay is usually incidental. Lay offs happen in the shop when things slow down. In my experience, field work never slows down and all the work is revenue or warranty. You are either making money or saving money. A lot of shop work is get ready, attachment installation or modification and internal work orders. That is all company cost where people are on you about time or looking to take credit for jobs that go right. If you get into component rebuilds, that's basically all you end up doing. Usually those people are there because they are someone's favorites.
Thanks for all your input. I think that I will go into the field for a year and see what happens. If I don't like it anymore I will ask to work in the shop. It's been three years since I have been in a service truck and the two things that I missed. Were the challenge of making something happen with what you have on the truck and the windshield time between jobs. It's been explained to me that the clock starts and ends in the driveway. 10 - 12 hour days. I was told that if I'm two hours away from the house then you leave and get home by the 10th or 12th hour. Basically I was told if you can finish the job and not have to come back then stay as long as it takes. The service manager, shop forman and field supervisor are all exwrenches. They all know what the challenges are with the job and are some of the most laid back people I have worked for. So laid back in fact that I get uncomfortable because nobody is concerned with what you are doing with your time. That will take some getting used to. Most places I've worked wanted it done yesterday and think things like I don't have parts yet are excuses. I will report back in one year and let all of you know what it's like. Thanks again for the advice. Paul.
Well it's been nearly a year. And I have to say that I will be looking for greener pastures. The people I work with are great and I couldn't ask for better people to work with and under. BUT! The powers that be keep moving the goal post and I can't make any money. When I started your time started in the driveway and ended in the driveway. Now you will have to deduct the time it takes to get to the shop and home from the shop. That one isn't a big deal because I only live 30 minutes from the shop. My biggest complaint is that I have only worked 50 hours of overtime in the year I have been here. In the beginning it was once spring gets here you can work as much as you want ( within reason ). Then the Corona virus hit and they cut off all overtime. The funny thing is that our industry never skipped a beat. It's been business as usual. The work is there but they won't let us do it. I have pissed off a lot of customers when I tell them that they only have me for x amount of hours and I hit my 40. Naturally management were getting nasty calls and emails stating that they don't care if the mechanic has worked 40 hours their machine is still broke down. So then we were told to make up something and you will have to leave. I wouldn't! Not my job to lie for you and besides maybe if enough customers get pissed the bean counters will release the overtime. That approach works but it rarely results in overtime. The last straw for me was last Thursday. I had 5 hours left until my 40 and instead of sending me to another job. I was told to go home and come back Friday to finish my hours. Well I had the last 15 Friday's off so I had plans. Don't expect me to be available when I haven't worked a Friday in a long time. And don't get pissy about it when I tell you that I can't. It may be your company but it's my time and skills that I am selling. I think that I gave it the best shot that one can under the circumstances. But with insurance, 401k, and taxes I am bringing home what someone making minimum wage would. And that's while making $30 bucks an hour. There are a lot more pros than cons here but $ money is a big driving factor. I can't pay the bills with good coworkers and primarily troubleshooting and having someone come behind me to make the repairs. I will leave it up to God whether I stay or go. Any advice is welcome and if you are hiring I am interested.
You are working for idiots and the sooner you get away from them the better life will be for you. I cannot imagine pulling a tech off of an unfinished job because they don't want to pay overtime. I pity the customer that has equipment down and watching profit and progress come to a halt. Your employer will be in a world of hurt when you leave the idiot and those customers want you to do there wrenching. I never quit an employer that next one wasn't better.
Those customers do want to hire me and many have tried. The problem is I want to much money for the knowledge and skills that I have. Dallas is a weird market. It is flooded with parts changers driving the wages down and when someone like me comes along. They burn me out.
The funny thing is that they don't mind paying me to sit for 4 hours while waiting on a parts delivery ( which is a paid hotshot service) but don't want to pay me to get the parts in half of the time or any overtime that may result in me getting my own parts.
In my area, the $30/ hr would be at the top of the pay scale, but I live in a lower wage area. Union guys in Kansas City and Chicago make $45-50. But it costs a lot more to live in Chicago. The only way you are going to make more money, would likely be on your own. That adds a whole different complexity to having your own truck, insurance, liability, call backs on previous repairs (justified or not- customers always complain- and those calls now come to you). You will have to deal with a lot of paperwork that you don't have now. I'm surprised that if you have been off on fridays and saturdays all this time, that if you want to work and make more $$, why you aren't doing work on the side, unless your dealership prohibits you from that. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping you from more work except you.
I am at the top of the pay scale, but not completely. There isn't a big market for side work in the Dallas area that pays. If you have your own truck they want to hire you for a cheap wage and lease your truck for way less than a monthly payment would be for a truck. And most of the side work I find isn't worth taking on the job. What I mean is people don't want to pay the rate that I ask for. Which less than half what any shop charges. I would love to go full independent but the companies around here don't use independents. They buy there own trucks and put a warm body in it. And then hire the dealer to fix what their warm body can't figure out or screwed up. I think it's time to leave Texas and find a more independent friendly market.
I dont think you will ever find a place to work were it is ran even remotely like it should be. Like a guy told me about his wife there all crazy you just have to find the kind of crazy you can live with. I hate my job but i keep going to work thinking things will get better. I would love to go some were else but is it going to be any better.One big thing i dont like is i dont realy have a boss so if i have a problem i have to figure it out on my own. Theres been some talk that the place i work for may sellout in a few years that mite be good . If i get another job i will get some things in wrighting.
I am happy with my wage. My problem is that %25 of my wage has been taken from me. I know overtime isn't a guarantee. But I been in this business for 20 plus years and 50 hours a week was the standard work week. One of my problems is that I have over extended my self a little. I got out of this industry for a few years because I got burned out. I took a lesser paying job and it got me by. Then I had some unexpected expenses and now I am in debt. That and affordable insurance is why I took this job. If wasn't for that I wouldn't be working on equipment anymore. I have a 10 year plan to get out of debt and pay off the house. I just can't get enough traction to kick my plan into action. I will stop whining now.
Hit that road and dint look back you can find a job anywhere right now
Have you ever thought about moveing? There is a bad shortage of shops here money and good customers are not a problem. The problem is finding any help.
I don't expect to find nirvana. I can put up with most anything except for disrespect. This is about me and my needs and the needs of my family. And if you can't provide me with that then I will be moving on. It's not personal it's business. Just like a company would treat me. As long as you're useful to me and make me money I will keep you around. But as soon as you can't do it for me than we'll have to let you go and good luck in your future endeavors.
I have and want to. I am having trouble convincing my wife that there is nothing left in Texas but heat and shity mechanics.
Its booming here guys are getting offers on excess of 33 bucks an hour
There's sh!ty mechanics everywhere and it seems businesses are having a tough time keeping the good ones. The Cat/Deere dealer here fired two of their best and they went out together and started there own shop repairing combines and rubber band machines which really put a hurt on that dealer, go figure. Won't be long and I will have to find someone to replace the one retiring in the shop.
I was born in Arizona. In the small town of globe. But I want to escape the heat. I have been in Texas most of my life and every summer gets harder on me.
This job isn't easy and its more than just being a grease monkey. With engineers constantly reinventing the wheel its not easy at all. I have all but mastered, electrical, hydraulics, fuel systems, welding and electronics. It pisses me off when you treat my profession like you could hire anyone off the street and do my job. You might be able to fill my position but you can't replace my experience and know how. And my work ethic. If you can get that cheaper than go right on and do it. But I know that you can't. Because people like us know our worth and won't work cheap.
Heats over rated lol Globes on fire because the mines are full tilt Cat house has lost quite a few guys to better offers and they were paying pretty good with benefits but the corporate world has an affect My brother in law has 3 years of real mechanic experience went to work for the new Holland dealership they put him in a truck his 2nd week makes 25 plus and gets 80 plus hours a week if he wants he is very good but has not put in the time yet that you have and he is number 2 or 3 out of about 12 guys Point is work is a wildfire right now and your holding a bucket of water
Dallas is a big area. You stated yourself that there are a lot of shtty mechanics out there. Well a lot of companies have hired mechanics that claimed to be the best and they turned out shtty, so they're jaded. Fact is, it's difficult to discern how an employee will turn out after he's hired so many employers are overly cautious about hiring someone at top pay without observing his habits for a while. Add to that the fact that lots if not most employers are jackazzes themselves and don't appreciate a smart mechanic. Most likely there is a perfect job for you not far away, but getting employee and employer on the same page is not so simple.
I've thrown caution to the wind and hired on for less money and waited to see if they would bring me up to where I should be. I won't make that mistake again. You wind up carrying the load for everyone else and still don't get the wage you deserve. Maybe I have the wrong way of looking at this. But I have at least 10 good years left in me and I don't care what I do afterwards. My house will be paid for and I can work at McDonald's if I want.
I agree. Businessmen often look at everything as an agreement. Then forget their end of the agreement.
I took a job that way in the early '90s. I told the man what I could do, and what I wanted to make. We agreed I'd work for less for 6 months, and if I could do what I said, I'd get a big raise. After 6 months, no raise. I went to see the owner, and he was honest. He said he remembered our agreement, and that I had done all I said and more. But, he said he couldn't afford to pay that much. He didn't dream I could really do all that when he hired me, and he was sorry. I gave my 2 weeks notice, and have worked for myself ever since.
It's difficult for a man to pay you more when he owns you... or thinks he does.
Worked shops from 75 to 96 with side work in field then side work at home until 2000, had enough after those years, LEAN years where were several dozen wanna be's for every decent singular wrench and employers willing to hire them CHEAP to get what they could from them, was getting old where the shop management were typical promise LOADS of wages and then could not produce them to the never ending sob stories in the field work of 'Can you just let me float on payback for a few weeks' that turned to months or never. Tools were in a state of constant flux as to New and Improved as Torx or Spline and diagnostics gear, the required second set of hands I either could not tolerate or just ignored leading to bad days on a couch back sprains, torn muscles, stitches, full time employer mad but knew capabilities and let it slide some. I made the trade change and did not look back where still fought machines at home but ONLY my own, could not step back in now as just to rusted up and TOO Old!!
That's why they call those of us who have achieved the valued state of competency, journeymen. Good luck Paul on your future. I know you will do well anywhere you go and and at anything you do. It's time for you to challenge yourself and the world.
Never too old, just too disinterested!
Quite agree with that.
The old saying of "I was looking for a job when I came here. I'll be looking for one when I leave" springs to mind. Never fear the future.
Business owners rely on the ignorance of the employees, it has been that way since the first manufacture of stone wheels. People go into business to escape that life and figure on working for themselves then before they know it the business has grown and they start looking at hiring help. Then the process starts all over again and they are relying on the ignorance of their employees. Because once the taste of money takes over the attitude changes. Revolving door, just a fact.
I just hit my 4 year anniversary at this shop! It's only the second 4 year anniversary I've had in 25 years as a tech
Longest ever in one shop was seven years, bounced around in company shops of a large lease company but never settled in as did at the Nuke. Sadly first five years there were so busy I really did not miss being in a shop wrenching for a living, had the habitual necessity work after hours and on off days but not like being inside a shop. Considered at one time going back to the shops within the utility, machines and management had changed enough by then they did not want me back. They were crying for me to come back after I retired as cannot find good help STILL.
47 years-28 jobs-have been at this one since 2003.
I've been questioned about the amount of jobs I have had. And once nearly got into a fight during a interview because I was accused of not being loyal enough. ( even though I threatened to kick the interviewers ass if he ever talked to me like that again. I was still offered the job. )The fact is.... I am loyal and I give every company 1 year minimum and if I don't like it or see myself achieving anything but filling a position. Then I got to go. Long before I started working companies did everything that they could to keep their best employee. Now the best employee is a liability. He cost to much and can usually get special treatment for being the man that can make it happen when no one else can. So now a days companies treat you like your a dime a dozen. You say no at the wrong time or just simply rub someone the wrong way, your gone. No matter how much it will hurt the company. So I treat every company the same way. It's business and not personal. Just like my problems aren't their problem. Their problems aren't mine. What I am basically rambling about is I hate it when being interviewed and acting like its a crime that I would look out for my own interests rather than the companies. Three times I have worked for someone for several years. Two 5 years and the last 3 years. I can and will be loyal to a company, but my family absolutely comes first. Besides that's the whole reason I put up with this crap for after all. If it were just me I would have been a drifter a long time ago.
I hear you on the drifter if I was not married I wouldn't own a buissness and probably wouldn't keep a job longer than 6 months cause I would be onto the next thing
This loyalty horse **** that's going around, don't anyone kid themselves about who they are working for-no one in business is going to jeopardize any part of there business or personal gains for a employee when it comes down to it. When you are not looking, at your most vulnerable-------------under the 22.5's you go. I have seen this time and time again. If there is a staircase of management several of those keep a wet stone in their pocket. People look at me when I say that like {you don't trust anyone! No I sure as hell don't} I have had the stick inserted and broken off too many times. If employees could hear the boss on the golf coarse talking to the rest of his business owner buddies about their hired help. Any employer who uses all the latest lingo like {team player, the company is just one big family, we just appreciate all that you do----Really where's that raise we talked about it wasn't in my last pay check? Rule #1-don't fraternize with the boss or management, #2 keep a log of any pertinent conversations with boss or management with time and dates, #3 keep track of your work hours everyday. It's a jungle and always has been, It's not a bad attitude.
Nailed it
I worked at one shop that had an awesome foreman. Manager wanted us to work on a holiday at straight time that was near the end of the month and take the holiday on Boxing day instead because technically it isn't a paid holiday. Shop workers and foreman had a private meeting in the lunch room. Foreman was the first one to say he had no problem working the holiday but wanted at least time and half to work, not just switching the holiday to another day. That was the consensus of the group, you want us to work pay the overtime. The manager got bonus' if work was completed before the end of the month and was right pizzed off we wouldn't work for straight time. (foreman said the manager used to brag about his big new house and all the stuff he was doing to it) Time and half was never offered so we all took the Holiday off. That was the best foreman I ever had. He looked out for the employee's. I've had a few other decent foreman/bosses but also a lot that just tell you what you want to hear and could care less about your well being or safety for that matter. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but have been burned too many times.
I must work for a rare breed of employer. When the covid shutdown occurred they asked for volunteers to be laid off. Then when things slowed down even more they had to lay off more people. About 50% were laid off. Who did they keep....the most experienced techs at all our locations. Also, the guys who were laid off got to keep their benefits until the company brought them back. Now we are back to full strength with no loss of employees.
You have been lucky.
Can’t complain to much about the company I drive for when the auto plants shut down we were all laid off for a couple months but all benefits continued and company paid our health insurance with no back charges after we came back but all communication with dispatch is done via text so I have a written record been burned before