I've got a 100 acre farm in New England with ponds, pasture, marshes, hayfields and forest. There's also a house & barn on about 3 cleared acres. I have a steeply-sloped pond that periodically needs its banks cleared (and the shallows dredged of cattails). I have fields and forest that need thinning of brush and large saplings. I also have a need for digging holes to bury (mostly) organic material, rocks and brick. If money were no object, I'd have three different classes of machine... a 10-12K mini, an 18K and a 50K medium excavator. Given my needs, mostly mowing (some mulching, if machine large enough), some digging and grappling, what one machine would be the best compromise? I'm not interested in becoming a mechanic, so a run-out machine will not work. I figure to spend maybe $100K. Thanks in advance.
Can the big machine do most if not all of of the work without to much trouble. Same question for other machines
I think you could have a couple really good used low hour machines for 100K.
BLS Repair - Assuming "big" being the 50K class, a big machine (steel tracks) would be able to do it all, but with unacceptable damage to some of the more fragile parts of the property, ie., lawn in and around the house and pond. Being a new operator, there wouldn't be much finesse involved when running it. Welder Dave - The "couple" being in what classes?
Can you do all work needed with smaller machines?
An excavator for digging and a self propelled mulcher. There's also mulchers for skid steers. It might be worth renting one too. The thing with equipment like this is that even if it is brand new it is going to break down and need repairs. Renting lets someone else worry about repairs. 100 acres isn't really that much. You could hire out a lot of work for less than 100K and it would get done a lot faster with an experienced operator. Working in tree's and brush is really dangerous. https://www.forestrytrader.com/listing/for-sale/176228589/2007-rayco-c140-track-mulchers https://www.forestrytrader.com/listing/for-sale/25200295/2011-rayco-c100-track-mulchers
Big machines are not good in soft areas. Rubber track machines are not really meant for working in all environments either. Those tracks are expensive and easily damaged by an inexperienced operator. A 20 ton machine is kind of on all around machine
Agree with CE, 20T machine for heavy work where then a CTL for the brush and detritus work, should be able to stay under $50k doing that and afford add on assorted tooling to the machines as a Thumb or a Brush Mulcher as need arises.
If the 200 is too hard on some of the ground, is there anything needed to justify that size, or could you go in the middle to say a 120? You could have steel tracks with rubber bolt on pads to save damage. It's a smaller machine but can still do a lot. Unless they will see a lot of use, IMO buying 2 machines would be a waste of money. You'd be better off to buy the one that can do the most, and if you need to rent one to do the others. And a smaller machine is most cases can do the work of the larger it might just take you a bit longer, whereas the other way isn't going to work at all.
The only time you would really need rubber grousers is if you are walking on pavement. Rubber tracks will tear the lawn up as bad as steel. The weight is the killer and it doesn't matter what they are made of. From a construction point of view, a 200, 690, 320, they are not really big machines. We have 3 14.5 Linkbelts that do a lot of work, they are sometimes a bit light for any amount of digging. I would steer clear of rubber track machines for the farm. Nothing wrong with a 120 mind you, but they are still on the small side.
Rubber is a tad bit better on lawns, but not a whole lot. A 200 isn't that big, but if the OP was mentioning a mini i'm guessing he has some jobs that a 200 is just too big for. I would agree a 200 is a good size if it can do the bulk of the work. Changes are if it's a farm it's not going to get used everyday, if you are doing digging 100 hours a year and a smaller machine adds 25 hours to it not really a big deal.
I have been real happy since I sold the backhoe (Case 580K) and upgraded to a Tak TB175 (8 ton). can work twice as fast also runs a Cimaf DAH065 mulcher. I have older machines as I work on them myself. However I have seen several newer 8-9 ton machines in the 50-70K range.
Been following the replies and appreciative of all who've contributed. Based on your comments (and my needs), a 6 or 8 Ton machine with good aux. hydraulic flow would be the best compromise. The 6T I like for its weight on turf but the 8T seems to have the flow to run a heavier duty flail mower and maybe even a mulch head. Prior to starting this thread I had been looking at the Tak machines being either new or extremely low-time. Again, I'm no mechanic, so if something breaks (and I know it will) I'd like to have a warranty behind me until I put enough hours on it to minimize the havoc my inexperience will wreak on it. On paper I like the TB260. It seems to stand head and shoulders above others in its class with Hyd Flow of 45gpm total and 27gpm aux (and 12gpm 2nd aux). As this machine will be doing more flailing/mulching then digging, Hyd Flow seems most important. As I'm near 70 years old, 6'2" with a bit of arthritis, comfort also plays a role. Thoughts with this as the one machine?
I will give you my 2 cents, based on 11 years of owning and running them. Having owned three machines,10000, 14000, and now 18000, I would personally NEVER get the 260 size machine for your described scope of work. My 18000 lb machine with steel triple grousers is easier on the lawn than the 14,000 lb machine was. Look at the ground pressure differences - the 260 to the 290 is only 1 lb different with the rubber track and less than a lb different with the steel track. It does not matter weather you have steel or rubber - you can’t turn on your lawn, you have to do long arcs and plan your approach or you will make a big mess in a hurry. The other thing for all the work you have described that is important for me - reach - you gain over 3 feet of reach with a 290, and that will speed your work up, and also mean when using around the house you can move less and tear up less. I have found no disadvantage for me with the larger machine, I do everything I did with the smaller ones in tight quarters and everything thing else is done quicker and more efficient with the larger machine. You will also not abuse the bigger machine trying to do more than you should be. The 10000 to 14000 machines for the size of stuff I am always doing are just not big enough, always pushing there limits. You have a lot of work described- things like cleaning a pond edge - you need reach and stability of a larger machine. Mulcher - again you need reach and stability - the mulcher heads are not light. Personally after owning the 18000 lb machine I have no desire to ever use the smaller machines for anything.
I don't know your background or experience levels with heavy equipment. So, with that said, if you are not a mechanic and you don't have mechanical abilities, you do NOT want to get into mulching, let alone heavy equipment. As someone else posted, clearing is extremely dangerous and it can get you killed quickly. I've paid in my dues to learn my trade but I still occasionally have close calls. If I was unable to repair and maintain my equipment myself, I would have been out of business in the first year. Nothing about it is cheap or easy. I've run several small hoes over the years. I would never consider purchasing anything less than 18,000 lbs as smaller than that just does not get enough done in a day. I'm not out there doing plumbing repairs so I need something that will get a fair amount of material moved if I'm digging dirt and something with enough push/pull for working trees. And in clearing work, bigger is always safer which is always better. Lots of times I would prefer something larger than my PC200 for more leverage. Lawns are always cheaper than hospital bills and so is paying someone else if the work is only on occasion. My services save my customers potential medical bills and liability. Flow rates of anything less than 60 gpm at 5000+ psi is painfully slow, at least for me it is. I know I should lay off the coffee but I LIKE production. Too much coffee one day and the demolition rake & thumb was too slow for me after 10 minutes of conventional demolition - put on the cutter head and trashed a single story ranch house with garage in 45 minutes. Scraped the chips into the pre-dug hole and I was done in record time. That won't happen with 35 gpm and neither will trees much over 4". Before you purchase a machine, my best advice would be to rent for a day or week and see if operating is suitable to you and if you are comfortable in the size machine you rent. If you are farming, you can write off that cost anyways. Any breakdowns not caused by you will not be charged to you. If you make any major mistakes with a rental machine, you will be billed for repairs but you can also still walk away from it cheaper than you can a purchased machine, in most cases. Unless you have a lot of experience with heavy equipment, just jumping into it can be an expensive lesson in numerous ways. Testing the waters first is a more prudent approach than diving right in to unknown depths. I've read plenty of spec sheets but those numbers never mean as much as seat time and experience to see if a machine can do what I really expect it to.
There is a reason they make all sizes of hoes, because they all serve a purpose. I love my 6 ton, if I had a 8 ton there is so many jobs it wouldn't be able to do, even the 6 ton is a chore for some jobs because it's too big, it's the perfect size for what I need it for. The extra foot of width is huge, as well as the length of undercarriage and boom height from extra reach. Obviously I would say you'd want some knowledge of equipment before buying, but everyone has to start somewhere, and a 8 ton is not a bad option. Things will break, when the water pump blew on my 210 I had never changed a water pump in my life, but I figured it out wasn't a big deal at all. Same with a ton of other things i've had break over the years, other then a electrical problem there's never been anything come up I couldn't fix myself and i'm no mechanic. You definitely want to learn real quick how to operate the machine and maintain it so you don't cost yourself huge money later. The most common breakdown of all my equipment has been hydraulic hoses, which anyone can change. And those shouldn't be happening for a long time if you're buying a really new low hour machine. I down trees on a regular basis, it's a tiny bit dangerous but like anything you need to be careful and work your way up. My main concern with it is not dropping one on a house. I've downed 40' trees with my 6 ton. Never had a close call. But for any decent size tree I never rush or get complacent. It's just like demoing houses. I remember demoing a 2 story with attic space (roughly 30' high) 3' off the property line on both sides, other house 3' off of property on one size, that means houses 6' apart, 3' apart on the overhangs, they were keeping rear garage so no rear access either if something goes wrong and you need to get around to other side. I was very nervous until that house was down by far the most difficult demo i've ever done a few other guys turned it down because they didn't think they could do it or didn't want to take the risk, but if you take your time and work your way up from the easy ones it's more then doable. I know a 8 ton rents for about $500 a day here, if you could get by for $10k a year in rental i'd say probably rent, but like $20k? It makes no sense. Buying a low hour 8 ton will give you years of service with little breakdowns. If you're going to be buying pretty new it wouldn't hurt if it happened to be at a dealer and have them spend some time going over what you should be checking, greasing, operating no no's, etc, it'll help you out getting started. I'd bet most would also let you demo the machine for a bit. I like my Takeuchi, but dealer support sucks and dealer has changed since i've bought and it hasn't improved, in some cases it got worse. The sad part is the current dealer rents out my exact machine and still doesn't stock anything. Also their speed of getting parts is awful. Takes 2 weeks to get parts out of states up to Canada, dealers don't stock anything at all. Volvo can get me the same thing next day and they charge less then $5 every time, Takeuchi charges for shipping even if it's not rushed and takes 2 weeks. If I had known how bad the dealer support was prior to buying, I would have bought a different brand, even thought I much prefer the Takeuchi.
Check out ground pressure numbers. You'll be surprised how similar big is to small. Ain't much a little machine can do a big one can't, in much less time. Little machines transport on smaller trailers. No other advantage. I don't own an excavator, only a full sized backhoe. Several years ago my son & my extra son appeared with a Kubota lawn tractor equipped with backhoe & loader. I was sitting on mine installing INVISIBLE FENCE. They needed mine, wanted to switch. I did OK with the little machine until I had to dig across the driveway. That took MUCH longer! A few days later, a customer had installed his own underground service conduit. He had dug his ditch to full depth to the power pole, then angled conduit shallower, finally coming to daylight several feet past the pole. Seth felt it'd work to excavate this little project with the little tractor rather than retrieve mine. Digging took six hours! After a few minutes digging, the spoils were falling back in the hole. Several times we had to stop to move the pile. We learned a hard lesson in what a too small machine is like.
Just checked stats and have to agree that there is very little difference in ground pressure between 6 and 8 tons. The extra reach is a big plus as cleanup around pond, marsh and field edges will be a major use for the machine (not digging depth). I will also appreciate the extra hydro power with running a HD flail head. I have some experience with heavy, heavy-ish equipment owning a 100hp tractor and having run rented 100hp track loaders with HD mower. I can appreciate the damage to body and machine that can happen with carelessness and/or speed. An advantage I have is that I'm semi-retired and nothing on this farm needs doing quickly. I spent my career in offices and I enjoy running heavy machinery and being outside. As far as mulching, comments here have made me reconsider an excavator for that activity. I'm rethinking if a hired-out CTL/mulching head wouldn't cover more ground. A Rayco would be even better.
Short reach is a major factor. Ponds must be very small to clean them with any mini. When digging a hole consider the angle of repose of your spoils pile. A very little machine can't reach far enough to clean up the refill. It has to move around to refill. The more you move the machine, the more grass must be restored. As conduit comes in ten foot lengths, I find it better to dig, bed, lay a length at a time, and cover without moving the digger. Most efficient, least disturbance.