Hi there - both my cylinders for my Case 580k (1990 4WD - Phase 2) are leaking and need new seal kits. Normally when i need new seals I just remove the cylinder and take it to a shop where they hone and replace seals. But for these cylinders it doesn't look so easy. The cylinder housing is attached (or part of) the 4WD shaft. Not sure if I should just remove the wheels and take the whole axel into the shop or if I should be removing the casing that is attached to the axel. Any recommendations/suggestions welcome. Picture attached to give you a better idea of what i am talking about! Thx Ron
Up to you but we always found it was just as easy to remove wheels and drop the axle and put it up on our rebuild bench. Better than laying or kneeling on the floor fighting it. My 2 cents.
To remove axile is more easy than to dismantle stearing cilinder. Stearing cilinder bolts are put on thread lock very hard to unscrew bolts, and there is not much space. While to take out axile you only need to remove four bolt that fasten it and four hose. Put two heavy track tyres under the vehicle and lower axile on it take off bolts and lift backhoe. important to put a cart under those tyries so that you could pull the axile out from under the backhoe. Therre would be a little fluid leak so prepare some buckets.
Thanks Honcho - i think removing tires and taking out axle is the way to go
There was a thread not long ago that went into detail on those cylinders. HeavyEquipmentForums
I have a front counter weight that looks like i would have to remove in order to get at the bolt for the axel - any tips on removing the front counter weight - looks heavy !
hydraulic trolley jack
We used 2 long dowel bolts we made so the weight can be slid into place on a jack.
Motorcycle jacks are good for about one thousand lbs. might work.
I use a Harbor Freight brand transmission jack. Works really well.
Tinkerer, yesterday (or day before) you were on a thread talking about front forks. Someone mentioned a company with three initials H??. Do you recall any such conversation? I want to check them out. Why I don’t know how to backtrack where I’ve been is beyond me. I guess the snow is not deep enough.
Two ppl can easily put it down. It weights no more than 100 kilo
580K counter weights come in 2 sizes depending on configuration small one is 400lbs and 900lbs if you have extendahoe
Personally speaking...... I would simply remove the cylinder gland with the axle still fitted to the machine. To loosen the ball joints - you will have the same problem with holding the cylinder rod with a ground thin open ender wrench with the axle out of the machine - but at least the axle is held tight while it's still fitted to the machine. You never know, they may come apart easily..... When the ball joints come apart - it only takes an hour to fit the seals, & get her back together. FYI - to remove the front counterweight loosen the 4x mounting bolts a few turns, fit a strap around the weight & use the crossmember of the raised loader frame to mount a block & tackle or even chain it to the crossmember & use the loader to hold the weight to lower & then raise it back into place. ..... But by the time you do all that - & pull the axle...... you might have the new seals already fitted by doing it as described above
Sorry, Bootheal, I don't remember that conversation. And I couldn't find it in a forum search. Maybe I just saved you enough money so you can install that thumb.
Thanks....at least my better half says thanks! Have a good one.
Hi Arlman - just getting to my project now - been a busy summer. I think your suggestions makes sense if what you are saying is that I can just remove the piston/rod from the cylinder and then replace the seals on the rod itself once removed from the housing by loosening the cylinder gland. So i have a question regarding removing the ball joint in that I'm not sure what you mean by " you will have the same problem with holding the cylinder rod with a ground thin open ender wrench with the axle out of the machine". I have to remove the ball joint and the rod (i'm not sure what its called). I think its just a matter of taking the tie rod (if that is the proper name) off from the wheel by removing cotter pin and loosening the bolt....or is there more than that to it ? Also - i see what looks like a spring in the ball joint...but i can't find any parts diagram for what is in there - I'm thinking it would be a good time replace whatever I need to in there. Thanks in advance Ron
Hey Ron @rdavison39 First thing to do is - looking at pic 2 - remove the splitpin & nut. The rod end is a taper fit into the steering trunnion. Use a good sized hammer (short handled 10lb is my tool of choice) & hit the end of the trunnion housing - NOT THE TIE ROD END - & the tapers will separate. Next you should see two flat spots on one side of the chrome rod. You will need to grind a good quality open ended wrench, (older the better! good steel in those days & it doesn't hurt as much while doing it to a new wrench) thin enough to fit the flats - so you can hold the chrome rod & use a stilson /pipe wrench loosen the ball joint in pic 1. - Both ball joints #5 & #6 (below) need to be removed to perform the reseal. Now the gland you need to remove is on the other side of the cylinder shown in pic 3. The parts book doesn't show the cylinder dismantled, so hence the confusion.... Shown below - remove the 3 x bolts #11 & prise out the gland. Then withdraw the rod & piston from the cylinder - Note the cylinder remains in the axle housing. This can be a challenging job as the ball joints #5 & #6 can be stubborn ...... but you never know your luck
Thanks @Arlman - this information is fantastic. You're awesome. Much appreciated! I have some follow-on questions to clarify, because I am a tad old and slow 1) I took a picture (picture #4) of the other side of the power steering housing and have pointed to the "gland" that i think you are referring to that I have to remove. I'm just confirming that if i remove this gland (the 3 hex bolts size #11) and have gotten the ball joint(s) separated that the chrome piston/rod should just be able to slide out....and then i can replace the seals on the piston. That is, i don't have to loosen anything in the picture #3 above? I would have thought there would be some seals/wipers on the other side of the gland as well that I have to replace ? If so, do i remove what looks to be a housing (which also look to have 3 bolts) 2) I've marked on the closeup picture (#5) of the rod going into the ball joint points A & B - is the flat spot suppose to be on the rod (point A) or on the narrower neck (point b)? I can't seem to see any flat spot (i.e. the flats you refer to). And is the rod screwed in and i have to unscrew counterclockwise to remove the chrome rod from the ball joint (point #6) ? (The diagram looks like part #5,6 have threaded ends) 3) WRT the part #5 and #6 on the diagram you included (thanks for that - its not in my book)...it look like there is a spring inside. Am I suppose to replace the whole part (i.e. replace #5,6 shown in picture #6) as it looks like a broken spring or something inside I have another question on planetary seal (which is leaking) but i'm going to put that ask in a separate thread so we don't mix and match remedies. Thanks again for your help Ron
Good job on the new pictures as it shows me that I have miss directed you on removing the rod & piston. 1) I can't recall ever resealing a steering cyl with this configuration....... however I would say to leave the bolts alone & you will need to loosen that slotted gland to remove the rod & piston. (But don't quote me on that....) None of the service manuals I have describe removal of that type of cylinder. You will need what we call a "C Hook Spanner" (Google it) to do so. Once the gland is removed, there should be a seal & wiper in it & when you pull the rod & piston, you can remove/pick out the other side seal & wiper which fits directly in the other cylinder end. If the rod & piston won't come out of the hole made by removing the slotted gland, then you obviously will need to pull those 3 x bolts & that other cover. 2) The flat spots are usually only on one side of the rod at point 'B' - (maybe a good idea to clean that up a little.......) hence the need to make an open ended wrench thinner. Yes, the threads into each end of the rod are right handed. 3) If the ball joint has excessive movement - the whole part is replaced. Early models are left & right handed threads where they screw into the tie rod arms. You'll need to look closely to figure if that is the case with yours.
Okay - Thanks again Arlman. Really appreciate your time and knowledge. I think you have armed me with enough information to tackle this job. I'll update thread with any nuances so others can also learn. Ron
Hi all (and in particular @alrman ). I'm trying to loosen the gland using a spanning wrench. Problem is there is no room to actually turn the wrench - i can move the wrench about 1/8 turn in either direction before the wrench butts up against some steel. There must be a tip/trick for undoing these - perhaps its a custom made wrench - i guess i could put some mini slotted screwdriver and bang that in attempt to turn the gland. Just thought I'd ask before i make a mess of things
You need to get creative Ron. Sometimes you need to buy 2 wrenches, so you can shorten the handle on one - then weld it back on at a 90 or 45 degree offset OR weld an old 1/2" dr socket to it Then if you have to, alternate between the two wrenches & you'll get it off.
Thanks @alrman - welding it is!
I have never done one of these but it looks like you could pull that cylinder out of the housing and reseal it on the bench? No one has a service manual ? Bob
Thanks Bob ( @Bluox ) - that is my plan - I will update the thread if i succeed!!
Looks to me if you take the 3 screws out of both sides the whole cylinder will come out the right side and you can remove the gland on the bench? Bob
I have one, but I don't know which series RD has. Perhaps the seal R&R procedure is common to all of them. If it is I could send him a download link in a private message.
Hi there (@arlman) - So today I removed the splitpin and nut and gave the trunnion a good wack - didn't come loose. Then wacked some more (albeit a 5lb hammer). Still nothing. Then i heated up the trunnion tried again. Nothing. Then screwed the splitpin on backwards and threaded the nut up just shy of the threaded bolt end (i.e to protect the threaded bolt) and then wacked the nut a few times but nothing. I'm not sure how hard a should be hammering the trunnion - i don't want to damage anything. I'm sure this tapered rod end has not been separated for a decade or two. Any suggestions welcome.
So....went to try and remove the housing so i could remove the cyclinders. Seems the hardest part working on a old backhoe is getting bolts to loosen up. I'm using a fairly sizeable 10mm hex wrench and unfortunately there is not a lot of space to maneuver. I have a little pipe i can slip over the hex wrench to give me some more leverage but can't budge them. I haven't tried to hammer on the hex key nor i have tried to apply any heat (as not sure that would work in the case of a bolt). Would anyone suggest I hammer the hex wrench to try and budget these bolts ?
They could have Loctite on them. If so, heat is how you release Loctite.
Thanks Edgephoto. Putting next comment in main thread Hi there (@arlman) - So today I removed the splitpin and nut and gave the trunnion a good wack - didn't come loose. Then wacked some more (albeit a 5lb hammer). Still nothing. Then i heated up the trunnion tried again. Nothing. Then screwed the splitpin on backwards and threaded the nut up just shy of the threaded bolt end. (i.e to protect the threaded bolt) and then wacked the nut a few times but nothing. I'm not sure how hard a should be hammering the trunnion - i don't want to damage anything. I'm sure this tapered rod end has not been separated for a decade or two. Any sug gestions welcome.
So after a bit of Googling I now understand there is a special tool to remove tie rod ends. Its a horse shoe like tool that fits under the ball and you bang it to raise the tapered end. This worked well
So next problem I have is trying to get the steering cycling rod/piston out of the casing. I have the been able to remove the 10mm Hex bolts from the power steering column as shown in the picture below. The tie rods are free from the wheels. I was thinking after i did this the part that was being held on by the 3 hex nuts would come free and thus I'd be able to remove the cylinder. But nothing came apart even after a few good blows with a 3lb hammer. In my service manual I see nothing about taking this apart or even an exploded diagram of the steering housing. Anyone have any experience with this ?
I do recall suggesting leaving the cylinder in the axle, with years of paint & rust on it, the cylinders never come out easy. Hence the suggestion to apply your energy to loosening the slotted gland nut. But you do what you think is best. Re the tie rod end - the tie rod end tool may work, but a normal automotive one won't be wide enough to do the job. The rubber dust cover usually is destroyed in the removal process. It may help to place a bottle jack under the threaded end while your hitting the end of the housing - my only suggestion is to get a bigger hammer & hit it harder! ....... and you still haven't attempted to loosen the joints at the steering rods .......
Thanks @arlman - re "....... and you still haven't attempted to loosen the joints at the steering rods ....... " I have tried (and failed) but too embarrassed to post/admit that at this point. Figure I'd only ask for help on 1 item at a time so people don't think I'm completely useless I was able to loosen the slotted gland (finally) but it didn't look like that should prevent the housing (held on by the 3 Hex bolts) from coming off. When you say "leaving the cylinder in the axle" - are you saying you can put in new seals without even taking the rod out ? I thought I have to remove the rods from the housing/axel housing in order to put on new seals...
Yes, you must remove the rod to replace the seals - the cylinder remains in the axle housing. With the gland loosened, you could try to loosen the steering chrome rod on both sides & leave the tapered tie rod ends in place. You will need the wheels off the ground & axle (front of tractor) supported on stands to do this. But, loosening those joints from the steering rod - is often the most challenging part of the resealing the steering cylinder job.
Thanks Arlman - you are saying the most challenging part is the loosing the tie-rod from the chrome steering rod - but that i can prevent that most challenging part of the job by just leaving them on (and of course removing the tie-rod from the wheel). Just confirming....
To withdraw the rod from the cylinder - the joints at the chrome rod need to be removed - so you have to do the hard bit of the job...... The tapered tie rod ends can stay attached to the wheel end. I do usually remove the tapered tie rod ends, as starting the threads into the tie rod ends & between the adapters & rod, when reassembling (especially when the adapters are new & tight) is difficult.
@Arlman - Thanks for your patience. Just to confirm - would it be true that only 1 tied rod needs to be unscrewed (which would be the right/passenger side in order to remove the rod the from the cylinder? (As its the hardest part I would like to minimize my frustrations). Thx Ron
You need to remove the other one to slide the gland (containing seals) off the rod - you must do both.
Got it. Thx