I bet this gets a lot of arguements. I had and still have the New Holland LS190B. I have had a lot of problems with it. I am definitely a foot control person. I can run a case control but I can't do it near as well as the foot control. I thought I wanted to get rid of my New Holland until yesterday when I spent 3 hours getting the living tar beat out of me in an S300. It was like riding a bicycle on gravel with 200 psi in the tires, every little bump was a boulder. It did have better viewing from the driver seat the the new holland and it seemed to have a little more power. I have tried a Gehl, but was only able to turn in circles and raise the bucket when I pushed forward (cat control not used to it) I have had a case 90xt and rented a 40xt. I have yet to have the opportunity to try a John Deere or a Cat. I also own an old 753 which I have done to it what the s300 did to me. I like the bobcat for it is easy to fix. I am sometimes a little rough on my equipment (I have bent every cylinder on my kubota kh151 and blown practically every hydraulic line on my 753). The local rental places know that if I want to rent a machine that I am doing something that I don't want to use mine for. I just want the best loader for me and am open to suggestions. I am a professional engineer and own a design build company - we do all concrete work except walls (curb and gutter, tearout, interior and exterior slabs. My type of work often includes all of the grading from start to finish on any type of flatwork. During the winter we usually build houses. So it is obvious that my skid loader could be doing anything and everything. What do you suggest.
I have only had a chance to run two. An old Bobcat 743 and an almost new Case 75 Xt. Bobcat- Had the foot controls and solid front tires, was not a fun day in this machine. It stalled several times doing normal stuff. It did seem like it would be very reliable with almost no electronic toys though. Case- Had less than 500 hours. Had the controls where both hands drive and control loader functions. I liked this control setup better than foot controls, but not by a lot. This machine was very strong and I could fill the bucket digging in pretty hard ground. Didn't care much for the LED gauges since they didn't work. If I was to pick a skid steer, it would have to have the vertical lift arms rather than radial lift. Cat is on my list to try as I much prefer to have drive controls on the left and attachments on the right. Also be sure to look at many auction and for sale listings to see if you notice any flaws in a particular model when you find one that you like.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time on Bobcats, but I agree that they're bouncy. I regularly find myself on either a NH 555, a Case 60 XT, or a Cat 257B. There's such a difference in size and age that I won't bother to compare them as far as strength goes. I always felt I liked the Case better than the New Holland, because I find it easier to wiggle my wrists than my ankles. I don't like the 60 as much as I liked the 1840 it replaced (as far as ease of operation). The Cat is a whole different animal. (Pardon the pun.) I've found I like it better than either of the others. What I have found though, is that if I have to go back to one of the others, I then prefer the New Holland. The reason is that, with the bucket functions on foot pedals, it's easier to transition from the "travel on one hand and bucket on the other" control pattern. (Goes back the the discussions we've had about jumping from one control pattern to another.)
I have the T bar controls in the Gehl and thought when i first got it that it would be a pain to run, well i have gotton used to it and love it now same with my case backhoe always had the seperate controls now just have the 2 sticks and adapted to them and like them after i swore i could never get used to them.
I have found the Case to be my preference over the cat, new holland, & the bobcat brands. I put over 3000 hours on a Case 1840 with no problems. I know they do not make the 1840 anymore, but I am sure the new ones are still tough. I put the case through some tough work, including tearing out old concrete & digging footers in all types of weather & it never let me down. I have found getting used to new controls usually only takes a few hours, but old habbits do die hard.
It's not getting used to new controls that's the issue. It's going from one pattern all morning to a different pattern in the afternoon. We talked a lot about it here:
As far as skid steer loaders go, it's hard to state which one is "best." I will admit straight up that Deere did a good job re-engineering theirs, and you will likely find that their machines are the most "powerful," have the best ride, and offer the best numbers overall. However, my vote for a skid-steer goes to the Cat family. The larger machines are still incredibly bouncy (compared to their MTLs), but the value in the Cat machines is arguably higher than that in other manufacturers, especially if you do your own maintenance. I'm surprised the S300 was bouncy -- you could try the S250 out for size. Sadly, if you're a foot person guy, you may have to give the Deere a try. But I do ask one thing of you: please visit your Cat dealer and ask him point blank to explain how the Cat is better than Deere. If he can't come up with solid reasons let me know, then tell him to explain how the Cat is better than Bobcat. The reasons he gives should be enough to explain in general how Cat's machines are designed to be more durable and reliable.
if you look at the gehl 7810 (biggest baddest skidloader money can buy) You can get it with all 4 kinds of control systems. I have demoed every version. The hands only, hands foot are really easy controls. The pilot controls are really nice. But I can't drive it to save my life. The T bar flat out suckes. I really like it better comparted to a bobcat s300. Its very smooth and you can see out it better than any other machine. It will be my next big machine. Plus its cummin powered. I am a hard cord bobcat fan too. :thumbsup
See now i think other wise i love those controls this is the new vertion not the old style with the tbar in the middle of the machine . they call the new vertion T-Bar now too but there controls are on the 2 side sticks.
are u stuck on a wheeled model? we use the ASV RC100 tracked loader and its yet to leave me wanting...
I personly like the John Deere skid steer the best. I won a 328 which is 82 hp gross. I have ran a lot of skid steers. It seams to me like the Deere has more power, less bouncy and jerky, and better control. The thing I like about it the most is that it will load not center of a dump truck put past the center and not tipsy at all. Well that is just my 2cs worth. Well they are cheaper than cat. Mine has 14.X17.5 tires with an 84" tooth bucket, Two speed trans. I only paid 34,000 for it. Wouldn't trade it for any other.
I still say an old 1845 with wrist controls is just about as good of a mid-size skid steer you can get. They're great machines and I still see tons of companies running them and most people I've talked to like it better then the new 400 series or the short lived XT series. I've always liked and heard great things about Bobcats to this day for a durable skidsteer that will last you years and am suprised that they haven't been mentioned much in this topic. The latter Scat Tracks I was always impressed with and now that they are basically updated with a Volvo nameplate on them I'd bet they're pretty good machines.
Best Machine I finally got rid of the New holland. I ended up buying two new machines. They are both by far the best machines I have ever run. The first is a John Deere 332. I have officaly mastered the hand control. This one has steel tracks and I can move more dirt than my 450C with it. Awesome power comfortable ride, smooth machine. The other machine I bought is a Cat 287 Track. If you have never run one of these, the first minute is tricky, then it just seems natural. You point the control in the direction you want to go and it goes there. The tracks leave no trace of you ever being there (the John Deere steel tracks get you around better but don't go into someone's yard with it unless you own a sod company). They both have their places but I am now a sworn John Deere fan. The Deere offers a three year/3000 hour warranty. They are going to lose their ass on this one.
Iceburg " I still say an old 1845 with wrist controls is just about as good of a mid-size skid steer you can get. They're great machines and I still see tons of companies running them and most people I've talked to like it better then the new 400 series or the short lived XT series". I will agree that the 1800 series machines are great machines and I have owned enough of them to feel qualified in saying that. They are very durable and simple machines. However if CASE was still selling the 1800 series they would be at the bottom of the sales heap instead of near the top. The skid steer market has evolved at a high rate of speed for the last decade. It is not enough to build a machine like the 1845C. They now need an advanced control system either very good servo controls (like the 400 series), or pilots or E/H, they need high hp (the 1845C was an NA @56hp) they have to be quiet to operate (the 1800 series is not), among many other things. I think customers are more demanding of what they want in a skid steer. I also think they are used more than in years past and thus the machines have to be more productive. The XT was not shortlived. They were introduced in 1997 with the heavy lift machines and ended last year. As I said the machines evolve quickly and CASE marketing apparently felt that it was time to move on. If you look at everyone else in this market it no different. Deere introduced their machines in 99 and moved through the initial series, then the series II machines and now the 300 series. CAT introduced the B series also quickly and their C series is ready to come out shortly. So you see running a series of machines for 8 years or so is actually on the long side. Yes I think CASE builds the best skid steer at least for my operation.
You're right the XT series had not exactly the shortest production span I think I'm just subconsciously comparing it to the 1800 series which with minor upgrades here and there lasted forever in production. (When did the last one come off the line?) In terms of the new Cases I haven't had the chance to deal with them but I'm hearing only okay reviews and of current production skidsteers have been told Bobcat, Cat or Volvo are the ways to go. Granted I'll definately research more and you probally know more then I do on the subject.
I believe the last 1800 series was produced in 02. I have never heard Volvo as a machine to buy at least in skid steers. Are they selling in UT? The dealer could plant flowers in the machines up here.
radengineer -- sweet! Keep us posted on how it goes. KSSS -- I don't think Volvo's done a serious job of promoting its SSL line for some reason. They bought out Scat Trak in, uh, 2001 ish (? I think) and introduced pilots on them last year (along with 100 other upgrades). I think they're a good product, but they just haven't put much marketing muscle into them. Perhaps they're also waiting for Tier III to roll out an entirely new series?
I've seen a couple down here in SLC. And I think you're right they haven't been pushing them enough for people to know they're a great machine. The few of them I've seen I've heard great things from the operators on them so thats why I suggested people look into them beyond the fact that I was able to run a later Scat Track and was very impressed and have heard only good things about the Volvo upgrades.
I'll take my Cat anyday. Especially 5-6 years down the road @ trade-in time. With a reasonable amount of care they seem to be worth more than the competition. Not to mention that the MTL's ride like a baby carriage. jr
As much of a Cat guy I am, I've gotta point out the irony in this statement -- the Cat MTLs probably won't have the highest resale value in the industry, exactly because of the track design. It's a pity, but most people don't have the patience (or the insanity, from another standpoint) to maintain the things. Hopefully the new machines' UCs will stand up better.
Tiger, I'll agree with ya on the track design. But the tracks will last if you take care of them, mostly keeping them clean. The rest of the machine is worth the money , they are the most comfortable skid I've ever ran. jim
Now that's what I agree with. :yup Doing it, however, has proven to be more difficult.
Well I guess it makes a difference if you're they guy that's footing the bill.:bouncegri If ya know what I mean. jr
I am that crazy guy that actually stops at the end of each job and cleans with a pressure washer...I clean the tracks to the point of looking new (i cheat and use a wash pit) then go so far as to windex the interior..lol yea i know i know...but hey at just under 50k my RC100 needs to last me a LOOONGG time!!
With the 1800 series case loaders there are enough minor differences to make a complete model change. They are kinda like their backhoes, compare a case 580b to a 580 super m series two. Way different machines. The 1845c's gained probably 15 - 20 hp from the first to the last models. The seat bar change. Two different hydraulic pumps. Three different auxillary set ups. And yes, it was time for the company to end the run. The market is requiring a superior machine today than what the 1845c was. True they are solid machines. The current market requires high flow hydraulics to run the new attachments. The horsepower from the once powerhouse 4-390 cummings is now the low end for commercial machines. Just look at the case line, in the 90's it went from an 1816, 1818, 1825, 1835, 1838, 1840, and last the 1845c. What we use the modern skiddsteer for, was 10 years ago what we used crawler loaders and wheel loaders for. Today I think that the bobcat a300 and the gehl 7810e are the cutting edge machines. The bobcat for its inovative turning abilities. The gehl for its power and the control variety that it offers.
I would agree largely with your post Stumpjumper. Bobcat has maintained an innovative side to the company. They have continued to try and lead the industry in cutting edge products. Some are successful and others have been less so, but they have been innovative. I find little innovative about the 7810, it is big and burly. At 99 hp it is a high hp engine. However its hydraulic hp is not impressive. Its control system is a product of the market, hand control pilots (market driven), and the T-bar which is exclusively for the loyal Gehl buyer. Bobcat again shows its innovation by offering foot or hand controls on the same machine (granted the quality of the systems maybe in question). The 7810 has an impressive lift height, I will agree and call that innovative. Its ROC is impressive but the 95XT with counter weight has a very similiar ROC and it was introduced in 1997. I will agree that the Gehl 7810 has some innovative features but I don't think that it is of itself cutting edge IHMO. Bobcat was doing big when big wasn't cool (980 Bobcat 100 plus hp and 4K pounds of lift).