I have a driveway that's 120x18ft. I get a lot of snow. 8ft overnight, 20 feet in a day sometimes. There is downhill off the main road so ice/ traction is a problem. The plow company is pulling out due to lack of staff. Frankly I have to move a lot on my own anyway with a push blower as it is. I want to get a skid steer or CTL with a blower to improve my life. I own a tl240 3.5h away but don't want to pay to move it seasonally as it'll prob be $1k each way. Wheels with chains or tracks with studs? Tracks would be nice for summer due to soft ground but the icy pavement on a slope makes me worry it would slide off. What's the smallest machine I can get away with for this? Does it need to be high flow? I do need throw distance as the walls can be 20+ feet deep.
OK, wont complain about our snow. I think a SSL with chains on all 4. I have used this in heavy snow/icy conditions and I think it works the best. You simply get more bite than you do with tracks and screws. I would go with a high horse power, high flow machine. It will put you in the DEF category, but you need to throw snow and 75 hp or less wont give you what you need. I would look at a CAT 272, CASE 340, Deere 330 type machine. A machine that has creep capability would help, but if your careful not mandatory. As far as the chains, go with the double set up with the V treads. They are expensive but they bite and they last. As far as blower, I have a Quick Attach 84" high flow blower. If the snow is dry it will throw it 45', the wetter the snow the more that falls off. I also have the extension that allows you to throw over tall walls or into trucks. Works well, but again the colder the temps the better it works. I use a high flow CASE SV340.
What kind ? "A big fooking one" ..... Consider repaving the drive with PEX tubing and a boiler.
If you dropped down to a 262 Cat I believe you'd be just under the HP threshold for DEF. Tradeoff is the 262 has about 750 lbs less capacity than the 272 and by the looks of it, you might benefit from the extra power.
I use snow tires on my S650 and they are better in snow/ice than the dirt tires with chains that I used to use. So my vote would be snow tires. You are going to need a big machine with high flow for that kind of snow. It's a case of size vs time. You can go smaller, but it will take a lot more time. If money is no object, then buy any of the newer big highflow ones. If your on a budget, then an S300 HF, or an older Gehl 7800/Mustang 4000. Final option, if you've got an old airport near you that's closing, buy whatever they use to clear the runways.
You need a machine big enough, which means enough aux. flow to throw the snow out of the way to keep from having to reblow it. That means the largest wheeled machine of whatever color you want that makes the most flow. That means DEF, but this is why they make big wheeled machines. Lift capacity doesn't matter in this situation, HP and Flow matter. On those 8' snow days, you likely would be continually blowing snow. You let it pile up 8' deep and you will struggle with a SSL and blower.
I would think a 3 point tractor mounted blower running off the PTO would be a much better solution for wet heavy snow, lots more power on tap than a hyd. blower. Its all that will handle the big wet heavy stuff, unless you're just picking it up with a big end loader. I just don't see a skid mounted blower handling 20' deep walls with wet heavy snow. But I haven't lived in heavy snow country like that for 10 years.
What equipment was your contracted plow company using for snow removal?
By the look of that first photo something like a Cat 906 or 908. The logo is visible but not the model number.
What you really need is a U-Haul and a road map to somewhere else.
If you truly get that much snow on a regular basis a skidsteer blower will not cut it unless you have all the time in the world. The problem with the skidsteer blower is it’s limited to the horsepower output of the hydraulic system which may only be 40 to 50 hp on an 80 hp skid. You need at least a double auger blower as pictured above with lots of horsepower. I saw one a while ago that would work. It was a D8k with a 12 foot high blower powered by a 3408 cat engine I think. About 700 hp dedicated blower.
How about a smaller wheel loader? I'm sure they have snow blowers for them. I would want something larger than the largest skid steer.
For the OP's driveway ? "I have a driveway that's 120x18ft."
For only 120' of driveway, a skidsteer should be able to be made to work. You don't have to do it in two passes. All the cities and towns here have a loader mounted snowblower that has it's own 100-200HP engine, mostly used only for loading snowbanks into trucks to haul out of downtown when they run out of room. One of them with an axle powered off a small hydrostatic trans off of the blower engine would be the ideal low use/high performance blower. A skid blower will need to be designed especially for deep snow and high throw. Definitely need high flow hydraulics, or a separate engine on the blower.
I think a SSL would work, if you needed additional height you can add the chute extension. The key is you have to be there to keep the snow from getting 8' thick. I assume this is around Tahoe somewhere. If your living there full time, then blowing the driveway out a couple times during the storm should work fine. The driveway isn't that big so, your limited on options.
I guess with only 120 feet a skidsteer could do it with lots of raising and lowering and backup a few times. High flow would be a must to get a blower to throw it far enough. I built my own blower for the skidsteer using a 7 foot Schulte blower with an 80 hp Perkins mounted on it. It will throw snow up to 75 feet while driving about twice the speed of a normal hydraulic skid blower.
There are PTO operated blowers for tractors that mount in front with a drive shaft under the machine. A PTO blower would likely be more powerful than a hyd. blower on a skid steer.
Cheaper to spray some diesel on it and light it off.....
Farm tractor and blower or Oshkosh and blower for that insane amount of snow. And way cheaper then a ssl or ctl
With that much snow falling and only a short distance I would think about building an arched roof tunnel from the house to the road . You would only have to worry about the entrance to the road snowing over.
A CAT 907m with blower attachment. Everyone says pto tractor but that will be useless to me in the summer. The CAT 907M only makes 68hp, 31 gal/ min flow... And it does it in 5 min. So I would think a little skid steer would be just fine if I have an hour or more for my little postage stamp. I'm guessing high flow is mandatory? Or can you get ones that will work the same with lower flow? Are tires really that much better than tracks as I'd like tracks in summer but they may suck in hills in snow?
Definitely need high flow with your amount of snow. Much less maintainance and expense with tires over tracks. A tractor with a 3pt. hitch is very versatile.
I think I've seen self contained snow blowers like a smaller version of the municipal version I mentioned above. Or you could make your own. Light four cylinder car engine would be easy enough to fabricobble onto one. High flow would be easier. Yes, you need it. How steep are you talking? tracks would work fine if you're not all that steep and can stay on mostly bare pavement, they suck on ice.
Using a (gas) car engine to power a blower would require a governor.
I guess it's suggested that "snow tracks" are actually better than tires with chains now? Vid of tracks vs wheels in snow:
Need a Bigger machine, that CTL will be worn Slick in a Single Season.
The issue with the video is the wheeled version is using typical dirt tires. Snow tires on the wheeled machine makes all the difference as do chains if you chose to do that. However simply using Winter tires would be plenty. Also, the ground conditions as per the track machine make all the difference. If the surface gets shiny smooth. You litterally, wont move with tracks. I have wheels and tracks, my tracks are Camoplast which are better in snow than other tread patterns, yet there are still conditions where tracks are not effective. A wheeled machine with snow tires will always work, and cost less to buy. In the summer you can put the dirt tires back on. I would go with wheels and highflow, I would also go with a high hp machine, but perhaps if you stayed current with the snow fall you could get by with a nonDEF, but still high flow machine.
907M Cat specs brochure 73hp, optional 31gpm at 3400psi Nominal, will not get that in a CTL or Wheeled Skid Steer as sustainable. Spec too light will be broken more than operable or worn completely out in less than two seasons. Articulated Wheeled loader with Chains is the better option, the bigger the better. And as noted above a PTO AG Tractor with Loader attachment and a Snow Blower is far more versatile than a Loader Tractor.
The problem with most comparison video's is they can be skewed to what ever the person filming wants. Tires also generally work better if you have bumps and undulating ground. Snow clearing is usually done at the highest speed possible so I think would accelerate wear on a tracked machine. Lots more moving parts to potentially freeze or cause other problems. Who wants to be unplugging and thawing out tracks when it's -20C.
If you're cobbling an engine onto a snowblower, the governor is a small issue. There are belt driven governors, probably electric governors that would work fine too. A farm tractor will have a very simple three point hookup and PTO hookup, and transfer all of the power to the PTO efficiently. Get a hydrostatic transmission, or at least a creeper transmission. Torque converter won't work either because the engine needs full speed to run the blower. I think you can make a skid steer work, even a mid sized, but why would you buy one without high flow? not that rare these days. Regular flow auxilary hydraulics are for grapple buckets, post hole diggers, that sort of thing, any serious power needs high flow. Tracks might work, but are a disadvantage. I wouldn't worry about wearing it out, it's only 120' after all, and working in cool conditions, not like typical skid steer abuse. Hydraulics are durable.
If you didn't mind driving backwards a PTO blower would be the lowest cost option. A used tractor around 50hp would allow to use a blower that covers the tires and have plenty of power. Less HP would also work if the tractor was narrower than 6 feet or if you had say a 30 PTO HP on a 5ft. wide tractor and blower. More likely to find a hydrostatic tractor in the 30 HP range but most tractors have a pretty slow reverse gear. It's better to have extra power than not enough when you really need it though. My 43 hp skid steer doesn't have high flow or high pressure (16.8 GPM, 2500 PSI) but demoing a hyd. rototiller was pretty pathetic compared to a PTO tiller on my 38 PTO HP tractor. No comparison at all. I expect snowblowers would be similar. High flow would certainly be better but I think still be pale in comparison to a PTO blower with similar engine HP.
My thoughts exactly. Dirt tires suck in snow. It's dumb to compare them tracks or snow tracks. I've got a 10 degree uphill driveway that I plow. Snow tires will run circles around tracks or tires with chains. I've tried them all. They have much better bite because of the smaller foot print. They give you more ground clearance because they are taller. They give you more speed because they are taller. With them I can plow going uphill. Before I had to drive to the top (if I could) and then plow down.
My concern with a mini tractor is I don't want to be plowing backwards. I need a cab. I worry they are unsafe rolling over and more likely to tip. I have skids already and tons of extra buckets, blades, and attachments. Plus I can use the skid on one of our other farms in the summer. I had a tractor and sold it, I thought it was a death trap. Farm has steep slopes. The plowing area has a gentle slope on the drive way but if icy you could slide off and over a steep embankment. In a mini tractor with it's wimpy roll bar I feel like you'd die rolling that down a hill. In a skid steer I feel the operator is really well protected. Tractors scare me.
Getting in and out of a skid steer when it's cold and covered in snow you could easily slip and become seriously injured too. Will you have to move between different farms? If so a tractor is much faster and if the farms aren't too far apart you wouldn't have to trailer a machine. As far as efficiency I just think you get a lot more bang for your buck with a PTO blower. There are some where you can drive forward but it depends on how deep the snow is. My former neighbor had a tractor with big wide low ground pressure turf tires and heavy duty V tire chains and used a pull type blower. He could dig through snow about 2 feet deep. I don't know the brand but it was pretty basic. Just a straight shaft off the PTO with blade like a mower blade to break up the snow and fan behind it to blow the snow left or right. It worked but there are much better blowers available.
Large equipment even down to skid steers and CTLs will roll over too, they are NOT bulletproof and will kill a human as well as any ag tractor. My last boss lost his brother to a slide off from a loboy trailer side, eerily similar to slipping off a drive onto a steep slope, sudden slide stop ejected him, ROPS cage crushed him as tractor slowly continued to its side. Do not underestimate the ability of a machine used carelessly or expecting inherent safety to kill or maim you.
Here is a recent thread that covers tracks, snow tires and tires with chains. You might get a few ideas from this thread are compatible with your application. HeavyEquipmentForums Is your driveway paved or gravel? Running tire chains that are too aggressive (V-bar for example) can damage a paved driveway significantly.
Compact tractor, full cab and front mount blower that runs off the mid pto. No comparison to a 550 rear pto blower, they don't spin fast enough. Ed
I would recommend a Median Sized AG Tractor, 70-110hp, that gets 1000pto at rear and increases access to other optional attachment. HE Rubber Tire loader gets a Loader, can get a grapple or in this case a blower even forks but remains a Loader, alternate uses are limited. Skid Steer, CTL, net a few more attachments, where could become buried in a 8' snowfall until can dig it out or await a thaw.
A lot depends on the particular blower. There are quite a few different makes and styles of blowers. 540 or 1000 PTO depends on the gear box. Some blowers are big rotary units kind of like small versions of railroad blowers. A think a good question to ask is what your budget is?
$20k. I have been paying about $2,000 a season just to have my driveway plowed and they only do it once a day, at completely unpredictable times So you wind up always having to spend an hour on a snowblower every day anyway. They might plow it at midnight and then by morning you have 6 ft of snow in there. So it sounds paradoxical but not paying a plow contract would actually save me a lot of time and effort. 10y payback seems reasonable. And looking at the other heavy equipment I own I'm guessing at the end of that time it's probably going to be worth the same or more than I paid for it. Added bonus if it's a machine that I can use for other things during summer time. I figure I can get a used Cat 246/247 machine for around $17k and a blower for around $3k high flow looking at the used market rn. I found a cheap 247b where the machine looks great but the ASV UC is all chewed up. Everyone talks about how good the ASV undercarriage is on snow but holy smokes does it look expensive to run on anything but snow. Honestly for my purposes it would probably be just fine even in its current condition but looking at how expensive the components are It makes me nervous. My TL240 has years of use on it and I can't see any difference at all, it looks brand new still.
When do your math add 15% for repairs first year, you will not get away with a flat $20K for a snow blower and not have to repair to some level, A used machine will remain a Used machine until you peddle it later, as age repairs will also add up so a Ten year payback is not likely.
The question I was answering was more how much was the budget to buy it. I don't expect it not to require maintenance. As I said I have huge expenses in addition to the $2k a year with professional plow service that will dissapear. The added value of this far outweighs maintenance even if I end up needing to rebuild an engine. But my other machines have been great in that regard. I bought a 2011 TL240 with 1,500 hours on it for $16k right after the fleet service department changed all the fluids/ filters and put new tracks on. I've been running it for 8 years now it's cost me nothing except oil and filters. Tracks are wearing a bit but everything else looks like the day I got it. It see's daily use. This one is gonna run a few hours a year? A few hundred feet? I have my own ranch shop, do my own welding/ machine work. I enjoy fiddling with equipment as a hobby. Unless I buy something run out I'm not anticipating huge maintenance costs. I'm not paying CAT to fleet maintain it. A $2.5k annual service for a commercial guy prob costs me $50 they way I buy the parts/ fluids. Sure hoses blow, parts fail, components bend or break and need to be fixed. My TB175 has blown 1 hose, had an electrical gremlin with 1 sensor, a corroded battery cable, needed a line bore/ stick straighting/ crack repair, ray chewed through several pilot control hoses, new batteries, and been painted twice in 10 years. Biggest expense was getting the stick rebuilt. I took it to the local machine shop bc the bushing at the end wouldn't take grease an the bushing was warn. They called me back told me the whole thing was twisted, cracked, and a line bore was the least of my problems. They had a huge computer controlled machine that re-machined all of it. Made the whole thing true again, re-bored/ fixed everything. That was like $600. Prob would have cost $10k at a dealer. Granted I had to take the stick off myself to bring it to such a place. My 10 year cost on that whole machine is prob under $1k. The value has been great for me. Doing it myself these expenses have been super low. Something big can always happen. Same is true for your home owner $6.5k Honda walk behind snowblower when your kid feeds it a snow shovel or the hydrostatic transmission goes out. I have found my used heavy equipment to be much more robust, reliable and cheaper to fix/ run than the daily alternatives they replace. I prob wouldn't buy anything, a car included, I'd need to pay someone else to fix. Would change the economics completely for me not being a commercial user.
Past results are not indicative of future performance. All this getting your money back for equipment in the last couple years is just a result of inflation, if you don't believe me, trade a 20 year old tractor that's "still worth what i paid for it", for a new one. That tractor has depreciated more than 50% even though the used price is the same as the new price. We haven't all read back to your other posts, or know you from other forums, so we don't know your experience. It sounds like you know what you're doing around equipment, but why are you asking about running a snowblower without high flow then? Sounds like a great plan, go back to 2011 and buy two of them. Just kidding you a little. If I was spending that money, I'd get good hydraulics, and tracks only if the driveway is reasonably flat. Like highway grade, not 15%.
If you have a TL240 that you are happy with I would consider buying another one the same so you can stock common parts. Maybe you could replace your 240 with a newer model for your regular work and use your 2011 240 for the driveway.
Here's the Richardson Rotary Snow Shovel model 666. "A smart Plow Unit." https://classicdozers.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/hd-5g-snow-blower.jpg
Trust me I've thought about getting a large blower for years and the price is now double what it was before the pandemic. I'm definitely kicking myself. As for why asking about standard flow... Because there are a lot of standard flow blowers available around me and they seem to work okay. They make blowers for standard flow machines that have a hydraulic motor that is matched to a standard flow machine and they look like they do a pretty good job. And since I have never run one I thought I would see if there was anyone here who has that could confirm that. That is long as the GPM flow rate of the attachment is matched to the machine it will still perform pretty well. One person locally who wanted me to buy their 23-33 gpm high flow blower runs it on a 19gpm achine and was trying to tell me that even that is fine. Obviously high flow would be great but I started asking because I found good price on a machine that was standard flow.
I thought about just moving my TL240 temporarily but apparently that undercarriage style does absolutely terrible in snow? People say they are like ice skates. And I do have an asphalt hill. From my research people seem to say that you need an ASV suspended undercarriage (which seems like the kiss of death to buy unless it's in beautiful condition to start with) or tires/ chains. I guess this makes sense considering ASV basically copied a snow cats undercarriage. Even with snow tracks the rigid undercarriage of a tl240 is supposed to be god aweful on icy hills. Idk though. I would definitely strongly prefer to get that style if I could because of how simple it is. My machine has no cab, mud tracks, and is about 3.5h away. I figure fixing those problems will cost $3.5k for tracks $4k for cab and heater $1k for transport each way. So it prob doesn't make sense?
That looks as good or better than today's options!
An AG tractor with a blower will likely require less maintainance and repairs over a 10 year period making it cheaper to operate. I think you could find a good set up for 20K. A lot of video's have to be taken with a grain of salt. Showing a blower on a nice flat parking lot with an even blanket of fresh snow isn't what most real world conditions are like. Consider blowing, drifted and packed snow when looking at blowers.
I'm in agreement with one of those Stihl powerbroom snow pushers and a cabin in Ensinada Baja for the winter. I'm guessing electrically heated driveway is out?
Hmmm, I suppose a small ramp truck could bring it cheaper if its not a huge machine $50 worth of screws driven into the tracks $30 for a reverse flow fan blade (got my dozer one from JEGS) that'll keep your ass toasty warm $50 motorcycle helmet, full face to keep your head warm and dry
We had a guy in our area pour a concrete driveway with heating pipes in it. It would melt the snow and run the water onto the street where it froze and created a big skating rink. He had to give up on that idea real quick.