Hope this is in the right spot What's the chances of a trainee operator (that has gotten a certificate to operate equipment after 1 year of schooling) getting a job out there running equipment? I here most companies make you do ground work first then let you run their equipment rarely. Well then what the heck was the point of learning to operate equipment if you are going to be doing ground work? I get the whole thing where a newbie wont be able to do a big complicated job because they don't know much but starting them out on small jobs would be feesable yes? Most companies say "We don't slip any trainees in, you always get a well seasoned professional operating engineer." But what happens when you run out of well seasoned professional's? I mean you'd think a company would take a newbie under their wing. If a company were to do this I would think that the trainee would be more loyal to the company. Also the company would be able to mold this new operator to their standards and they would be less stubborn about doing things the companies way. I guess I understand the whole: Training newbies is time consuming. We want some one we know can do the job right. But what about us youngin's who are really passionate about operating? Everyone's gotta start somewhere but if you can't start to begin with then you'll never learn
I think you are missing the point. One of the most important reasons that we do things this way is to ensure that rookies are ABLE, through experience, to see things through the perspective of the ground laborer. I hope, in the near future, that architects will be required to undergo more field training...so that they don't spec "18" CMU", for instance.
That makes sense to me. But I've herd of more times then not people getting stuck being a ground laborer and not being able to move up to operate equipment. It's a great idea to have them start as ground to be able to see what goes on down there. I just would hate to be stuck as a ground laborer is all. I mean after a couple years of being in the company assuming I do a good job I would like to move up to a seat position
Patience, grasshopper. Your getting your cart way before your horse when you contemplate "when I finally get there, I won't get to operate!" Your already doing more than most young folks, training for a craft. Take your time, be patient, learn everything you can whenever you can. When an opportunity arises, no matter how large or small, take it. For example, you could be on a job doing the boring task of flagperson, but your watching how things are done. Your seeing the methods and the process, ever learning. Then one Monday morning, the person who runs the vibratory roller doesn't show up. You jump in and tell the boss "I'm trained to run one". Opportunities come to those who show up for work, not those who don't. You just have to do two things to work for anyone and climb the ladder; 1) show up on time everyday, and 2) do what they tell you to do. You just focus on learning, your chance will come.
HEO Girl, you seem to be on the right path. Problem might be the baggage...aka "most people say this..." I had same attitude when I was young. What I learned was to make yourself very good at what you do without drawing attention to yourself. I know nowdays that is the oppisite in life but if you can do things in your trade without fanfare, you WILL get noticed!
A few things to help you out along the road. I started a lot like you. I went to an HEO school. I had a few things going for me though, the school was based out of an excavation companies HQ, the economy was rolling coals, and I grew up around a farm. I can help with the farm part, but it provides a great background, attitude, and teaches you to feel things by the seat of your pants so to speak. Now, having gone to a school located at an excavation company, most of the supers from that company had a heads up as to who was worth anything. At a few points during the week there would be different company trucks out there, most of the guys thought it was just company guys goofing off, or talking to instructors whom they used to work with. In all reality, they were checking out the talent. Just remember, you never know who is watching, they may be your big break. Now out into the field we go. I was hired as an operator/laborer, with an emphases on labor. My job was grade checker, and I also ran compaction equipment, and scraper. While on the ground, take the time to watch, learn what the operators are doing. Figure out what they are doing, and figure out why they are doing it that way. Also think about other ways to accomplish the same task. Show up early every day. Be the last to go home. Go the extra mile, pay attention to the little details. Talk to the boss, inform them that you would be willing to stay an extra half hour or hour in the evenings and grease/fuel the machines. This gives them a full day of production, with a low equipment maintenance cost. Having a full crew standing around fueling and greasing for a half hour is fairly costly. Talk with the operators, let them know you are interested in running equipment. Maybe you eat a sandwich and run a machine during lunch. Its a good way to learn to do the job, yet not mess anything up. There were many days I sat in an excavator at lunch, I made the next cut and practiced pulling a box. I would only cut enough for the next joint of pipe, and left enough to grade the bottom. Many days I ate lunch in an excavator loading trucks while an operator had lunch. When I was working on the finish crew, my dozer man would hop off and tell me to "do something, i gotta go ****." When he got back he would let me know what I did wrong, and what I did right. This should help out some, and well let the supervisors know what you want in the near future.
Well said Turbo. You gave a perfect illustration of what I meant when I said be patient and take advantage of opportunities when they arise. Don't be your own worst enemy and discourage yourself HEOgirl, are you learning anything from us old hands here?
Wow... I think I read something along those lines in one of my quantum mechanics physics books. Has something to do with the Heisenberg indeterminacy principle, or more properly known as, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle . You also stated a nice paradox about cause and effect... What Caused the First Cause ?... ... I'm kinda funning you, HEO Girl... but it's the old dilemma of, how can you gain experience if you can't operate something... to gain experience. Also, some times a company will take the time and effort to train a person. Then, after all the training, they skip off to a higher paying job. I don't think that happens too often, but I have read about it. They'd probably get a reputation for doing that, and then nobody would hire them. Also, special tool makes a good point too. You make a good point with this statement... and having a certificate should help... I would think any way. It's just kinda difficult to "break in" sometimes... Good luck though, BTW... Those two concepts I talked about at the beginning are very real... I put them in bold, so you can read about them in Wikipedia if you've never heard of them... LOL Look up Schrödinger's cat too... OCR...
You're willing to learn, and you seem like you have no fear of machines, those are the important things.
if your a good worker you should have problems moving up! i was an order picker and in no time i had more forklift licences then you could shake a stick at, hoping now for the same thing after HEO school. good luck to you!
It's tough times right now as it is, getting in the seat as a rookie is hard when dollars are on the line more than ever before. Foremen are looking for someone in the seat with the lowest possibility of making costly mistakes. However, starting out as a laborer isn't all bad. I've done my share of it, not as much as I probably could have, but I'm still a union apprentice and we get our share of pine handle time. I don't have a problem with it, job is a job and you're actually learning a lot on the ground. I actually do a fair amount of grade checking, which is a fairly valuable skill to have. Humbles you a little bit as well, you know exactly what it feels like to be that close to the equipment. I've grade checked vertical face soil nail walls, working within arm's reach of a 40 ton hoe slinging an 8,000 pound bucket. It's a humbling experience, but now I know what it's like to be on the other end of things. Also, working around a dozer and grade checking, always watching to make sure you don't get run the hell over. Turbo makes some good points as well. Lunch breaks are a good time to jump on stuff. One day I was running our little D37 on the last crew I was on, doing some cleanup on a bench so the 400's could get in and do some bulk cuts after the trucks left for the day. We had a D8 on site that one guy ran pretty much every day, all he did was run that dozer. He said he had to go take a leak, jumped on my dozer and took off. There I was, with about 2 hours of previous experience on an 8, feeding 2 400's loading trucks. I'm a firm believer of learning stuff better when you've more or less got a gun to your head. Turned out, he left me in it for almost 2 hours, I had me a good 'ol time and learned a little while I was at it.
I always learn things from you all here on hef. Don't think there hasn't been a day where I logged on and read some thread and learned something new. And I do contemplate things waaay to much ^.^ Sometimes it makes my head spin. insleyboy - The last thing I want to do is draw attention to myself haha. I'm a little shy so I like to go unnoticed in a way. Turbo - Thank you for sharing your story I hope that something like that plays out for me. OCR - Quantum Physics the word frightens me! wasn't the Heisenberg a blimp that blew up? or was that the Hindenburg? Haha Haha now you are going to get me thinking about everything like that. I'll be asking What was the first cause that caused this to happen along with my 'what if' I already got goin on ^.^ Oriden - Thanks! BucketHead - =] I'm willing to learn pretty much anything!!! Except pointless math that I am learning now -_- . . *:bash I am picturing the computer as math right now ^.^* CascadeScaper - I am a little worried about the whole economy situation but I think it will all work out in the end some how >.< . I hope
You could always buy your own equipment,then you could get your own work. Good luck getting any laborers to work with you though!!Get lots of insurance.Ron G
No such thing as pointless math in this industry. ointhead
You will find that pointless math is actually quite useful! Sometimes it just takes a teacher that can relate it to real life stuff to make it not seem so pointless.
Right On! Without math, we can't build anything, machinery would sit and rust.
heo girl,i also started out as a labor i worked hard because i knew i did not want to labor the rest of my life,soon i was moved to labor foreman which gave me time to watch the operators,see how they were moving the material,i would look trough the windows to see what was going on in the cab,i talked to the operators asked a bunch of questions and when they parked at lunch i would jump on it and get a fill for it.you may feel stupid with everyone watching but if you keep at it and you have the natural ability soon it just kind of comes to ya,so one day this guy doesn't show and they need some one to load the trucks from that day on i was in a seat,you may start out on rollers or skid steers but it will teach you grading ability.as for the math you will use it daily,to this day with 25 yrs of operating exp,i will still labor if that's what it takes to get the job done or to keep a paycheck coming home.sorry for the long post.
I Don't know about ME, but here the place to go for rookies was the city, county or state maintenance dept.
Don't overlook small "do everything" contractors. If there are some local owner / operator type people in your area ask if you can help in the Summer (especially in ME). I grew up in a household with an owner / operator excavation contractor and we learned to operate because when it was busy there was never enough help. I think you may find this helpful as the jobs are generally smaller and it's easier to get feedback on what is and isn't working. A lot of posters have mentioned attitude. That is a huge part. I've been in this business for awhile and it is very hard to find younger people that "want to work." Everyone wants on the job and immediately wants the newest and nicest trackhoe. Don't be afraid to jump in a skid steer or backhoe and do clean-up tasks. Stuff like that goes a long way with foreman / supers. Good Luck!
I don't care if it looks like junk as long as it runs and doesn't blow up on me I'm all set ^.^ . Just being on one doesn't matter what I have to do even if it's small clean up jobs is amazing to me >.< . Hell if I got to do that I'd be honored. I get all excited even when I see em on the side of the road. As for work I like to work. I don't like boring stand around jobs that don't challenge your brain though. I have 2 jobs right now just cashiering (Wicked boring). I'll be looking for a 3rd this summer probably but since I live in the sorta city haha it'll probably be another cashiering job. ^.^ What I would give to work on a farm or something. Cities = poop.
I promise, if your running an old machine, hell even a new one, your gonna break something. I always enjoyed running scrapers, but it was a mandatory to have a hose on the goose neck break in a year. If you were lucky, that line would break first thing in the morning, that way you didnt get a scalding hot oil bath, but a warm oil bath.
The way I got started was cleaning the shop of a company with the equipment I wanted to run. I would pressure wash the machines, clean out the cabs, grease whatever has'nt been greased, help the mechanic with whatever it was. And eventually you'll find yourself walking the machines in the shop or over to the washpit or loading on the lowboy at 5:30 am for the truckdriver so he does'nt have do it in 10 degree weather. If you do that eventually someone is gonna notice and they're gonna wanna see what you got. And I bet you would find yourself on the jobsite within no time.
Have you checked into getting into a union apprentice program?
Nope . . I'm not so sure about what I think about unions . . My dad doesn't have very good things to say about them >.< . I'm not exactly sure how they work either or if we even have them around here (Although I'm sure we do I think . . ). I'm actually enrolled in school already I start next fall. It's a years course at a college and after I get my certificate to operate. At the second semester they have a course called HEAVY EQUIPMENT OPERATIONS INTERNSHIP. Actually I have all the course descriptions of the classes I'm taking if anyone cares to see them to see what they say we'll be doing in a HEO school.
One of my first operating jobs was the roller, an easy boring job.
I'd suggest looking for a labour job before you start school, even though it's not seat time it will get you experience in the industry. The machine is usually the most expensive bit of the operation so as an operator you have to know whats going on and what has to happen next so you can prepare for it before it needs to be done. That takes experience, even if it's just you watching the job from behind the fence, or pushing a shovel (least you're getting paid to learn then!). Machines are there to make the job easier, but you still have to know the job first! When I was in high school every summer I would work for different constrution crews as Traffic Control (aka Flaggers). I got to see everything that was going on and how things worked on site. Once I started operating I already had a head start because I knew what was going on! Also alot of companies will start you off pushing a shovel to see what kind of a worker you are before they put you in their expensive investment. Not only is the machine expensive but it's usually their main money maker. If they have you push a shovel for a couple weeks and you're late for work all the time they know that if you're on a machine that machine won't be working because you're late! Or if you can't follow directions or goof off alot that machine will be working against them. I learned how to run a scraper and grader by watching them work on the same site, asking alot of questions and having the operator show me the controls and let me move the machine around at break time. Once I caught on to the controls and how to do work with them anytime I had downtime (my machine was broken, or my site was on rain delay etc) I could hop on a spare machine and still be productive for the company.
Don't feel bad. Right now is a tough time to try to break into this industry. I have called or stopped by every place I can think of, & can't even get a job as a fuel boy/ shop bitch/ blue room tech. I can't even get any1 to let me work for free! You know things are looking grim when no one even wants a person to come in & volunteer their time doing what ever crap job you have, so they get a chance to even move the machinery around the yard. I applied for the local 3 (UOE in this area). They are planning on only doing 1 class this year, so maybe 30 new guys, insted of 200+ like they usually do. I just took my assesment, so hopefully, i'll get in that way. Sounds like you & I are kinda in the same boat....exept I am 34 years old. I think when folks talk to me, they think I am a burn out/druggy/parolee trying to do something. None of the above is the case. I, like you am sick of my career...& I am topped out pay wise (at $23 an hour it is enough to get by, but not enough to send my kid to college). It is discouraging. But, I am just gonna keep beating on every door I can find. Right now a laborer job sounds like a dream come true to me. Have you tried local steel/demo/ metal recyclers...seems like those are the only ones that would even give me the time of day so far.
Mm I know times are tough. I'll take your advice Vantage Tes and try and get a job as a laborer this summer . . . I just hope I'm tough enough to handle the job haha. That's the only thing I'm worried about really going into the industry is not being able to pull my own weight. My dad works for a construction company around here so maybe he can squeak me in somewhere. I don't require much pay if any at all. I'd be happy to volunteer in my off time aswell although with insurance that doesn't work out for them haha unless of course they don't know . >..< . I dunno what it is about it that amazes me so much but it's awesome!! So as for work is concerned really haven't looked into it much besides now. I'll see what my dad can get me if anything and if that doesn't work I'll apply other places but if I don't get a job I'm not to worried I still got 2 others and although they aren't high paying or fun jobs haha it brings in money enough to pay the bills I got right now =]. But good luck to you finding a job!! I hope it works out for you! If your persistent I'm sure it'll pay off
I'm glad you're taking my advice, don't worry you definately won't regret it. After spending some time on the ground getting in a machine will be twice as awesome now! You can think...boy am I glad I don't have to be down there in the mud/dirt/hot/dust with those guys (and girls!) anymore Boy will always be boys so be prepared for some whistles but don't worry once you start getting to know them a bit better and they see what kind of a worker you are you'll fit right in. Most of the people I've worked with are pretty decent once you get to know them. My suggestion is if Burnout ever tries hitting on you just say "Oh Alex I only date boys who run REAL machines (Cat)". XD
but I love mud ^.^ but the hot part not so much haha. Hehe if he ever does I'll be sure to say that
A good first step is to find a workplace that appreciates effort, has a high standard of workmanship and takes care of its equipment. You need to demonstrate a sincere willingness to learn and go the extra yard. The reason for this is why I got my first decent job as an operator when I was not much older than you. When I asked them why they chose me and not someone older with more experience, they said they wanted someone who was willing to learn their way of doing things and not someone who already had ingrained habits which may have made them harder to train. You've just got to get out there and have a go and yes it may be just labouring to start with. People need to get to know your attitude and aptitude before they trust you with something expensive and potentially lethal! You may find some workplaces are not a good fit for you so it may take a few goes to find your place in the Heavy Equipment community. My grandfather once told me the story of a guy who wanted to be a carpenter, (never done it before), so he went to a clearing sale and bought a kit of secondhand carpenters tools. He fronted up to a worksite and said he was a carpenter and they put him on. Lasted a day before he was sacked but he learnt a lot in that one day. Went to another worksite and lasted a week before he got sacked and learnt a heap more. Went to another worksite and lasted a month and really started to get the hang of it. Went to the next job and lasted even longer and so on until he really became a carpenter through sheer hard won experience. He obviously never lost sight of his dream and never gave up. If you want to be an operator bad enough it will happen, just be patient, (hard I know), and stick at it. Another option is to get a small and inexpensive piece of secondhand equipment like a small kubota tractor loader/backhoe and do small jobs for people in your neighbourhood. You'll pick up some of the basics of a loader and excavator and learn how to deal with real customers and show your initiative. I think any employer would appreciate such characteristics. All the best, AusDave
That is excellent advice, and it shows (i) complete lack of fear and failure; and (ii) persistence. Two things that will make you successful. NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAMS.
A timely reminder Wolf and Thank you the whole injured wrist and studies were just grinding me down,but you have struck the nail on the head with that quote which makes me refocus my efforts to just get up and get on with it Stock
Good luck. Just go for it, and don't be afraid of failure.
I agree with AusDave determination and ambition are important! Those qualities will help you whatever field you work in.
"You betcha."
alot of companys are also kind of leary turning someone loose on a quarter of a million or more dollar piece of machinery afraid of it being torn up abused not greased stuck or what ever not saying that is going to happen with you but its the fact that the young ones have not had alot of seat time and don't neccisarialy know the best way to dig or drive or turn for that matter on a machine be it scraper excavator or dozer or what ever you may run but yeah never give up and someone will notice you and give you a chance
well ask burnout im pretty sure it was him that started off on an old link belt? took care of it like he was paying for it , now hes up on the food chain, just work hard keep your head down and youll be fine, and if no one calls you for an interview just keep nocking eventuly you will snag the right place! just finished HEO school got an interview this week so keep at it!
How do you feel about relocating? Here in the real midwest (Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado) we have commercial sprayer companies crying for operators. While I realize that this is not true heavy equipment, accurately applying chemicals through a 120' boom running through a field at 18 mph requires alertness and skill. A good operator that can keep the machine running and NOT HIT OBSTACLES will be a highly valued employee and will make GOOD money. Our cost of living is pretty cheap so you get to keep more of the money you earn. The season usually runs from late February to mid September and I know guys that run hard for the season and fish and hunt all winter. Google the "HIGH PLAINS JOURNAL" to get an idea of operator demand. They also have ads wanting HEOs.
It now appears we have a glut of operators here with the down turn. Stock
I wont give up givin up isn't in my blood haha. When I got my mind set on something it's pretty hard to divert me to something else. I'm pretty stubborn ***. Oriden that was quick. Already finished HEO school? Haha. You said you had an interview, what type of things will you be doing if hired by this company? If you don't mind me asking of course haha. Deerehauler, I dunno about relocating . . I love Maine . . However if a state happened to have a lot of horses and horse lovers and lots of barns and things that would help my decision a good bit haha. I'm a horse nut so anywhere that has horses would be like home to me .
I've been to Maine and it is a pretty state. You would definitely miss the trees. In your part of the world there are acres of trees interrupted by small clearings with houses or villages. Here there is lots of grass and farmground interrupted by creeks with trees. The thing I like about this area is the distance that you can see. In the spring and early summer we have quite a few thunderstorms. I enjoy watching a thunderhead form 150 miles away, watching it build as it comes closer. By the time the thunderstorm is upon you, the sky is completely covered, demonstrating the enormity of the storm and the smallness of man. At night from the right vantage point you can see the light of several town, particularly their high radio towers. We have lots of people into horses. A group of people built a HUGE roping area (Kiplinger Arena, McCook NE) recently. Every weekend there are roping events, cutting events, and team penning contests. My youngest daughter is into horses so we went to watch them work. In the Sandhills, north of North Platte, there are a lot a ranches. These are huge (several thousand acres) operations, and a lot of the work is done on horseback. Google cowboy poet R.P. Smith--he gives a good description of cowboy life in the Sandhills--it is the life he and his family live. Good luck with any decisions you make!
And then it turns into a tornado!!!:eek2
And after the tornado passes, most of the time there is little damage. Rarely will a large one hit like the F5 at Greensburg, KS. However, when it happens, they need HEOs to clean everything up.
i dont mind. i did a 8 week school (grader,excavator, dozer, backhoe) then a week for the AZ, all done the school started in jan, im all done just making up a few hours on a couple machines as they went down for repairs but i got my papers. this company has jobs all over my area, they do every thing HEO related new home construction ,demo, indust, and comerical. they have 3 large subdivisions going on right now all in different stages, then they have some other work booked for the summer, the recission is not aprent in my area as the projects are plentiful. they are looking at me for either a junior hoe operator or a dozer operator. i got this because i did what i suggested, ive been nocking on doors since before i even started school, im also seeing another company on monday but they hire alot of the school guys any ways. ask your collage to see if they have compaines that are familiar with the school, they are the better shots.
I also have a long story behind this. i started out as a laborer when i was 19. i thought it was a good idea to start out on the ground so as an operator i would know what its like shoveling that bucket of dirt. when a lot of operators dont care because "thats your job to shovel!" but other operators that have been laborers before know what its like and help you out. but my uncle got me started when he first upgraded from operator to foreman and 9 years later hes some "operations manager" and along the line he has brought me with him company to company he has worked for because i am a good worker, show up on time EVERY day sick or not, not taking time off for small things. and it didnt take me long to start running rollers, water trucks, loaders and some of the simple stuff but we have recently gone union and i bug all my super intendants, foreman and even my uncle still to get me in the operators union(the big bucks) and none of them will do it. so needless to say after 9years im still a laborer, but they still ask me to fill in when an operator doesnt show up and pay me laborer wages and i do it just to keep my job. ointhead so if you can try to prove from early on as a laborer you can and want to be an operator or you might just be their laborer with special privilages forever. haha but it is very good idea to get ground experience first. you realize how stupid people are by walking behind equipment without making eye contact with a operator without being the unexperienced operator and maybe running someone over and stuff like that.