We are buying an 18,000 dozer and would like to pull it with our F350. I think the max towing on my truck is somewhere around 16,000, but I see people hauling heavier loads with F350's. Anyone have experience hualing heavy loads with an F350?
What year and motor?
'96 I believe it is a turbo 7.3 L (crew cab)
If your gonna move it just a few times ok, if more frequent than you'll need a bigger truck. The 7.3L in my opinion is better than the 6.0L but lacks power. The newer 6.4L F450 has the power and the drivetrain but comes with a high price tag. Find yourself a lighty used hydraulic brake dump truck(about 5yrd), eventually you pocket book will thank you. A small dump truck my not have anymore power but it will weight more, have larger brakes, larger tranny, driveline and axle. All that = easier towing.
I have a 14000 lb dozer, and tow it to the neighbors with my 2000 F350, its a scary ride! need to be in 4 week drive to get traction, and stopping is not very good. Its only about 1km on a dirt road, its not a safe combination I think you'll need a bigger truck.
I saw your post on the other window so I am guessing you are wanting to pull an 18k dozer with an F350 and a 10 Ton electric brake trailer. I have pulled this combination many times and would not recommend. If you have any hills at all this is a receipe for disaster. The problem is not pulling with the truck, but stopping. If you are looking to save money, you could go with a C60 type 2 ton truck and the 10 ton trailer and be ok. You will need the additional braking power of a 2 ton truck. The ideal setup would be a 2 ton or heavier truck with air brakes and a trailer with air brakes. If he continues to pull that machine, this is what he will wind up with anyway. just my .02 Good luck
I have A 96 F350 7.3 4x4 and move a pc40 excavator 10,000lbs and a s250 bobcat 8,700 lbs with no problem I just would not go anymore than that i have it tagged at 22,000lbs to cover everything with good trailer brakes but anymore I thank would be asking for trouble.
Always go bigger than you need. then if you need to carry something extra, you have the capacity. Your neighbor or friend may need to move something heavier. Anyway you always need the extra stopping power.
IMHO, you will have the tail wagging the dog in no time at all. There are a lot more things to consider other than brake size of the towing vehicle; frame section modulus, steering component size, suspension, axle capacities & tire sizes, and hopefully you aren't relying on the towing vehicle's brakes to stop the entire combination. I would inquire at a truck dealership, and of a truck sales engineer (a real one). I have seen a lot of casualties and close calls from trying to get by on the cheap, and have concluded that: You pay now or you pay later, but you do pay. I have a F-350 6.4 4x4 crew cab dually and I pull a 12,000 lb load (trailer 3,000 lbs., tractor 9,000 lbs.), and I can tell it's back there.
No Lil Puss, I'm not relying on the truck's brakes to stop that kind of load. I don't know much about hauling dozers, but I'm not a complete idiot, LOL! I have horses. I'm used to hauling horse trailers, but I stay within what the manual says is acceptable. What confuses me is all the other people that are telling us that we could "haul it all day long" with our truck, but the manual says it isn't rated for that big of a load. I also see others hauling similar loads with F350. One of the guys that does our regular dozer work hauls his dozer (about the same size as the one we are buying) with his F250 - I've seen it myself. Keep in mind I'm not saying it is right or safe. It just makes me wonder what these trucks are really capable of (safely) hauling. I'm surprised that everyone (other than on this forum) are telling us we'd be fine hauling it with our truck. That includes talking with the guys that do our regular dozer work and the owner of the local Ford dealership. We are not willing to risk our safey and the safety of others on what we've been told so far, so I called the Ford Motor Company yesterday morning (with the serial number of my truck) to find out what my truck is capable of hauling. She sent the information to the "engineers," and they are supposed to get back with me next week. My husband called TX DOT and worked his way up to the head guru for the commercial transport division to find out if the our truck, trailer, and dozer would be "legal." They talked for a long time, so long story short . . . all they care about is the weight rating of the tires and axles supporting the load - trailer axles/tires and rear axle/tires of the truck). He said they don't care what you using to pull the load so long as you are within the limits of the tires and axles - YIKES! Makes me think twice about driving on the road Anyway, he said the truck/load comibination we were considering would be "legal." The bottom line is we want to be safe. That's why I posted on this form and am doing so much research. At this point, a friend of my husband is going to haul the dozer for us with his 18 wheeler. We'll take this next year to see how it works out having someone else haul the dozer for us, or if we want to get a new truck/trailer to haul it ourselves.
I had an F-350 dump and I ran it heavy now and then. If you load the truck with some weight, it will tow with more stability, but will be that much harder to stop. This is not a recommendation to tow your dozer with an F-350. While the truck may physically tow the load but it won't be safe. Plus, if you were to be involved in an accident while towing and cause an injury, you can kiss just about everything you own goodbye. The way the courts are today, a liability lawyer would have a hay day with that suit.
Steve . . . exactly!
I hauled a couple heavy loads with my 3/4 ton dodge. Its a 96 v10, rear axle is rated at 6100 lbs or thereabouts. The trailer is rated at 25600# with tandem duals, electric brakes. I had over 23000 lbs of concrete pipe on the trailer. Lesson one: Stepping on the gas is shockingly uneventful. Its like someone stole the motor. Makes a big motor look like a kids toy. Lesson two: The stoplight at the bottom of the hill will ALWAYS be red when you get there. In my case the trailer brakes work really well, the truck brakes do nothing. Lesson three: Its really really easy to underestimate how dangerous the situation really is, until you have to stop in a hurry. We safely delivered that load twice over a distance of 75 miles, with a couple really steep hills. I had to drop into low to climb one of them. It was really stable on the road, nice and smooth, tires ran cool, tranny parts and axles ran cool. It went really well, but that is why you get a false sense of security. I can understand why some would say its no problem, others think your crazy to go 350. I am looking to do the same thing as you(haul a dozer on that trailer) and i am thinking F450-550-650. In my case, there is no reason not to go bigger.\ Good luck! Good luck.
Ihave to agree with others, go with a bigger truck, much safer
We aren't going to haul the dozer. We're going to have a friend haul the dozer for us. He has an 18 wheeler and the trailer to haul it. We'll try that for a while to see if we like having someone else haul it or see if we want to buy a new truck/trailer to haul it ourselves. watglen - So I'm not the only one, LOL. The light always turns red when I'm hualing my horses! I hate that! I've gotten to where I just slow down assuming I'm going to stop at the light. Don't get me wrong, I never go over the speed limit hauling horses. There is a yellow light in town before the regular light that will turn on/flash if it is about to change. I love that! I wish all lights had that when the speed limit is over 50 mph. I was looking on Ford's fleet towing website. It looks like we would have to buy the F750 to haul it. It is rated for 25,000-37,000 lbs. With a trailer+dozer load of approx 34,000 lbs that still doesn't leave much room for error. The F650 is only rated up to 29,000 lbs.
Risk is a fact of life. I've agonized a lot over questions you are addressing. Have pulled heavy loads (12k to 18k + 6k trlr) a lot with a '95 F350/7.3L and more recently with an '05/6.0L. Both are Ford, SRW, 4wd, auto-tranny crew cabs. The '95 burns more fuel but is a few hundred lbs heavier and that does help. Its got 340,000+ miles on it and is on its 4th tranny. I agree with comments about weight of towing vehicle and am personally willing to take on a little extra braking load in exchange for added stability that I perceive with the heavier tow vehicle. I have placed a great deal of attention on condition of my equipment, especially tires, brakes, tranny- and brake controller . A good stable, conservatively rated, tandem dual wheel equipment trailer, while it may be several hundred lbs heavier than a lightweight, decreases overall risk. I conciously try to let the disk brakes of my trailer do most of the heavy work by using the manual controller and only set down hard on the truck's brake pedal if I need to.. Terrain is a big factor that no doubt causes a wide divergence of opinion as to suitability of tow vehicle. I feel much safer at 70 mph on US71 through western Missouri and I-40 across Arkansas than I do around the hills of Northwest Arkansas at 40mph. I never use 4wd except to get out of trouble off-road or on snow. I generally agree with your DOT contact. In Arkansas, your vehicle reg'n is supposed to reflect GVWR of both the truck and trailer combined. I always opted for the highest which, I believe, was up to 25,999. And yes, that's way over the truck mfr recommended trailering capacity. Carefully consider load distribution on the tires of both trailer and pick-up. Maintain proper tire pressures and respect capacity ratings on all tires. Scumball lawyers are of course an ever present threat. I always maintained an umbrella policy to cover excess liability exposure in case of a severe accident. Bear in mind you can always spend more to increase your equipment's capacities to decrease (but never eliminate) your risk; but this is not a perfect world, and there is a measure of risk involved in everything we do as contractors. Isn't that really what its all about in the final analysis? Your recognition of the limits of your vehicle and the existence of risk is a significant factor in your favor. I think you have gotten some very good and valid advice from your respondents. Stay focused on what you're doing, remember what you know, understand your risks, pray for mercy and don't let luck and good fortune lead to overconfidence and complacency. You'll probably be okay.
No disrespect intended Seffanyace. There is logic to what the TXDOT says about the weight rating of tires, axles, and suspension (whichever is less) - you must have a certain size truck to attain those ratings. And what Steve says is true also. If you get caught exceeding your vehicles (combination) ratings you can get a hefty fine at the scale (been there, done that), or in case of an accident - lose everything to an attorney.
Lil' Puss - No hard feelings. The other day when I found out about TX DOT just looking at the tires/axles, I pictured a Ford Ranger hauling a dozer, but then figured out about the size of truck correlating with the size of the axles, etc. I still thought there would be braking problems out there considering TX DOT is saying my truck+load combination would be "legal." I didn't know that they check the GCWR too. He never mentioned that. That makes me feel better. When the GCWR is checked, do they go by the determined rate as stated by the manufacture or by some other source? If there is another source, is there a listing on the internet to where I can see the GCWR's? I'd be interested to know which vehicles could safely/legally carry the dozer. Again, though, we are going to have someone else haul the dozer for us until we decided to buy a new, more suitable, vehicle to haul it. I'm not in the least bit interested in risking the safety of ourselves or others by hauling an overweight load.
Steffanyace, when you say the txdot wasn't concerned with the gvwr or gcwr, i think i have the same experience. I was told the only thing they look at (in Ontario anyway) is the axle, tire, and wheel ratings. If you go over any of those, expect to be walking home. The gvwr is a loose estimate, a general guideline established by the manufacturer for comparison purposes. It isn't used by the DOT in my area.
In addition: The GVCW rating is purely arbitrary for any manufacturer. There is currently no SAE or ASTM methods to scientifically prove functionality or plausibility of components in that situation, whereas GVW ratings are simply the sum of tire, wheel, axle, and suspension values - whichever is less, being the weakest link in the chain. I know in Washington state you are limited to 550 lbs/sq. in. of tire tread width regardless of the other components. So, want to haul more weight? Add more/bigger tires & wheels - simple. And then there is the infamous Bridge Formula Law, but that's for another day/forum.
That sounds like a wise plan! Even if you have good trailer brakes, something can go wrong with the braking system, which can lead to a bad wreck. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I've heard here in western Canada, one is not allowed to haul or tow more than what the manufacturer has rated the truck for. If you are checked in a spot check or at a scale, they can take the rig off the road if it exceeds the rated capacity. I've hauled loads with a couple of newer F350 crew cab 4x4s in the past few years. They seem fine for lighter trailers and loads.
We had a cat challenger 65 on a flat deck wit the fron tires of a scraper on the deck and the back tires on the ground. This was hooked to a 1999 ford F350 six speed with a really good tripple disk clutch. it towed it but it didnt stop it took two km to stop it from 85kph
to funny :falldownlaugh
Don't know if they have this system in Canada but in Washington state they have what is called "weigh on the fly" on portions of I-5 and other highways. The Trooper just sits in his cruiser and monitors a screen - has a video of your truck and load AND the weight for each axle. Pretty cool actually. I understand if you are grossly over they can make you park it right there beside the road NOT wait until the next weigh station. Jeez!
ok, you win! :notworthy:canada
That's funny. Wonder what those clutch discs looked like after a few starts?
I used to pull a D-4 behind my '99 F-250 4X4 with a 6-speed. Looking back now I cringe at the risk I was taking, but it did the job, and I only did it on mostly deserted back roads. Would not even think of doing it near a busy area. Much of the hauling was in the hills, and I pulled and descended grades up to 15% with it. It was a hairy ride, and I mostly used 4-low to keep it under control. Good trailer brakes helped, but it still took a ahile to stop. Try to keep it under 30mph or so, and go down hills 1 gear slower than I came up them. I was able to get a real lowboy after a while, but you do what it takes to make it when in that situation, but I would not reccomend it to anyone. Just one mistake and I could have lost everything. By the way, I ran that truck over 150,000 miles with the original clutch, and it towed heavy a lot of those miles.
:gunsI say go for it. I upgraded the brakes on my Jeep Wrangler and I tow this regularly. Don't get me wrong, its a little iffy on the highways but a little care and common sense is all the ole girl needs.
Burnout does that hurt your gas mileage much? How does Sureway pay you for the heavy hauling? Hourly, mileage?
No..... the mileage is crappy all the time. I am thinking with the 4.88 gears it might make passing on the highway a little easier. I generally get mileage. Sometimes when I stop for a coffee I put the transfer case in neutral and leave the transmission in gear. Get a couple extra miles.
Got it!:notworthy You should let Sureway know that I have a 73 CJ-5 that I could tow their PC1250's around with. You know just in case.
No prob, hopefully ya got some good meats. When the K-Whoppers are down they use the Jeep. Then they make ya go off road with that trailer.
You guys are being easy on the equipment. This is me and my crew on the way to the job last Friday.
At least the crew looks excited about going to the job!
The truck was toast after we did this. even tho we started on a downhill. the clucth held to 85kph then started slipping the rear end was making awful sounds the engine over heated. And after that we unhooked it and took in into the dealer since it was a trade in we think we bent the frame cause it pulled the thr left really bad.
I am in the same boat, we just bought a D3 that weighs 18,000lbs..you think at a minimum an F450?
I have a D3 that weighs 18,000lbs..was planning on a 25ft gooseneck with 12K axles..so you think a F-450 to be the minimum?
mwm1222 - The 2010 F450 6.4L 4.30 DW (with the high capcity towing package) can haul 24,600 lbs, but it has a GCWR of 33,000 lbs. I have a feeling the weight of that truck, trailer, and dozer would put it over the GCWR. You'd probably have to look into getting an F650 or F750. They don't list the GCWR's on the Ford website for those though. Check the ratings on the tires of the truck too. They might be the limiting factor on those trucks - I don't know for sure though, I've never looked at the weight ratings on them. Click here for the Ford Fleet Towing Guides