Hello, first post in this section. Wondering what size hoe would be good for use on a ranch? Looking for something to clean out a few pools, fix a creek crossing or two, and clean up some brush. Thinking a Case CX160 would work but not sure. How many hours would be too many? Would like to stay below 35k and have minimal amount of electronics.
If you think a 16 ton will do it, it probably will. Whatever size you settle on you are going to wish it had 2' more reach and weighed 4 tons more until you put it on the truck. Then you are going to want a mini ex that can go on a car trailer. Hours? It's rarely about the hours. It's about how the machine was maintained and parts availability. Not trying to be smart here, just thinking about how it works in my world.
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I agree on the hours vs. how it was taken care of. I've just never owned one before and honestly don't know what to look for. I have a Case Skid Steer and Dozer bought both used and have had good luck with both. Only other advice I have gotten on an excavator was to go to an auction buy the biggest I could afford and when done with it send it back to auction. I don't mind working on equipment but don't want to do more "working on" than "working with".
160's go for a premium they are just big enough to do a lot of things and small enough to easily move. At least for me, a 30 ton hitachi or link-belt starts looking really good when the only time you pay to move it are when it's bought and when it gets sent to auction.
When you're done with it, you can probably sell it on Craigslist and let the buyer move it and avoid the shipping cost yourself, not to mention probably getting more than auction price for it.
Hvy 1ton is right about the premium price the "handy" size you are looking at. If this is a first buy for you maybe a reputable dealer is a better place to start. Generally they will let you demo the machine and often they will offer some kind of support after the sale. It's easy to buy a $25K excavator at the auction or privately, get it home and spend $30K fixing it. If you find a deal somewhere on brand X, talk to the guys who have and/or work on that brand to find out if they are known to have gremlins. Think of it this way. Changing the hydraulic oil and filters on a 20 ton machine can cost $750 - $1,000 if you use descent oil. You will be doing this if your center joint blows a 2 dollar o-ring.
I just purchased a 30K machine, Hitachi EX120 and I am basically using it for the same things you will. I have about 20 acres of land that we are currently building on but we still have about 16 acres to continue to develop and several ponds to dig and as well as ditch systems for water management. I had a budget of $20K that I wanted to stay under so I have a machine with about 7-8K hours on it. Purchased with a couple hours from my house and had a friend that is a bit more familiar with equipment go with me to look at it. I initially wanted a 45-55K machine, but after realizing that everything about that size machine is more expensive (more fuel to operate, more hydraulic fluid to replace, more chain lengthsn and track pads, bigger sprockets, and the list goes on). Since the primary use will be personal I figured that the 120 was a better investment as it will do everything that the 200 will, just might take a tad longer. Since it is not making money but saving me money over hiring all this work to be done, it was the right decision. I bet anything from a 120 to a 160 will do you fine. I do agree that you will want 2' more reach and 4 tons more weight while using it, until you have have to move it or pay for maintenance.
I bought a place that was a mess and then after getting prices to clean it up I took a chance and bought a dozer. The dozer has worked out well for me, no major break downs just this and that from using it to clear brush with. I'm to the point now where I think a hoe would be handy and truthfully I've just been wanting one for awhile. It always seems mid size equipment brings a premium but bigger equipment usually means higher operating and maintenance cost too. I probably need to go sit in a few to get a feel for the size and see how bad they are to work on.
For me, I set me budget and then looked at what I could get within that budget. You definitely want a thumb on that machine, so factor that in, if you buy a machine without one, depending on size that is a minimum of $2500 to get a thumb and even more money if you have to pay someone to weld it on. Ideally, you want a hydraulic thumb. Mine is manual, but it has an extra valve in the main block to plumb an extra hydro cylinder. I ended up with a 120 size machine because it fit my budget better and had a thumb, the 200 machine did not have a thumb, so between transportation costs and the cost of the thumb, my 120 was $4500 less expensive than the 200, and less operating and maint costs.... It will also me cheaper to move should I decide to do some lot clearing for some extra money.
There is a Hitachi for sale in town. I remember seeing it and a dozer last week. I may stop and check it out. Just looking around I see some really rough looking hoes still in use, not sure if they are really tough and last a long time or require so much upkeep it's easy to get in so deep you can't get out. My main deal is still I don't want a bunch of electronics on one. How about the older Case 9020 models? Were they any good. I don't need a pretty one it will probably never leave the ranch.
I believe that Case and Linkbelt are the same. I know that most of Hitachi and John Deere are the same. Take a look around your area and see what dealer support you have for what brands. In my area, Deere is supporting Hitachi pretty well, even the grey market machines. Although, if you know what to look for, you can buy parts online. Eventually, something will break and you need ot be able to find the parts, if not from a dealer, then somewhere or your machine becomes useless... I agree, it is not about being pretty, but it needs to be fully functional and be able to be maintained to stay that way.
I ran an EL200 Cat once. I think it was early 90s. It was a nice little machine. A big leap above the old 215. I think that company still runs it, and has never had any issues. I think basic electronics are fine, but they more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
Just to play devil's advocate a bit on the size of machine, maintenance cost and purchase price. Pound for pound the bigger the hoe used is cheaper to purchase, that doesn't mean a bigger machine is cheaper than a smaller machine but pound for pound it usually is. My father instilled in me to always go a bigger than what you need. He was a framing contractor and then a home builder. He always bought 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and vans even though a 1/2 ton would've worked. His philosophy was he wasn't working the 3/4 and 1 ton's as hard and they would last longer for what he needed them for. He was right as history played out. A bigger hoe will not be working as hard as a smaller one for what you describe. I could get by with a 315/316 sized hoe for most of what we do and it would easier to move than our 321DL. However the 321 can easily handle most anything we throw at it on our normal projects. Sometimes we need to set heavy structures 10K+ and having the extra ass is worth the trouble of moving it. A 321 is more productive than a 315/316 in trenching the common depths we encounter from 3-8', loading trucks, clearing, demo, etc. The extra fuel and maintenance is minimal compared to production. On the maintenance side for comparison, we did a full service on our 279D CTL and the parts were $250 not counting oil as we purchase bulk oil. It costs $550 for a full service, parts only for the 321DL not including oil as well. Just something to think about.
Ditto on CM1995. I'm looking for a dozer to use on my acreage. There aren't many machines for sale around here, I'm in a remote area so I have to keep the search pretty broad. I have already decided that if I have to ship it a long distance, I can make do with a puny dozer, but if I find one nearby I can use a big beast.
The 9020, 9030 and those series Case hoes were very good machines as were the comparable Link-belts. I do mostly ag work out in open areas. I've owned a 120 and now a couple 200 excavators. I'd never go back to a 120 unless I was working in tight quarters around buildings and such. I can still scale under 80,000# loaded with the right truck/trailer combo so that is a plus. Overwidth permits aren't that tough to acquire if you even need them. It really depends if you have the room to maneuver a larger machine and how you will move it. I'd have a 300 if it wasn't for the fact I'd need a different truck, trailer and the extra permit junk.
Believe me, I wanted a 200 series machine. But I do think that the 120 will do everything I need, all be it not quite as fast. I do plan on doing some lot clearing for my current builder as we partner up to build more homes together. For 1/3 to one acre lots, the 120 will be plenty of machine. I do expect that there will be times that I will be in tight quarters. The 200 machine will be to big for those areas.... I have a Cat 323 last summer clearing my land, 55K machine and it was a beast and fast. However, as I walked through the woods trying to do some selective thinning of the brush and trees just to open things up a bit, I would bump other trees and have some issues moving around in between trees. It was a large machine. They make different sizes for a reason, for me, I think I can do everything I need to with the 120, although the 200 would be nice but I would still be concerned that it would be too big for some of my activities.
Knightgang selective clearing of trees in small areas would be my primary use for this machine so maybe my thinking on the smaller machine is right. We used a 100hp dozer to clear a couple hundred acres but now I have creeks and smaller areas to clean up. The dozer works for most of the areas I want to clean up for shade but I can't take it in the creek beds. I also think it would be really handy to keep fence rows clean and limbed up. Ideally I would use the 160 for awhile then trade it for a smaller hoe I could move easily, maybe one of the bigger size rubber track Kubotas. I also thought it would work good to load an old dump truck so I don't have little brush piles to burn everywhere.
You need to be careful with rubber track machines. They are not built for the same footing as steel tracks. They are easy to destroy, and expensive to replace.
I borrowed a IHI80 form a friend of mine. It was a very strong and capable machine for its size. Does not have the best reach, but with a Hydraulic thumb it was very versatile. For small space tight clearing it would be fine. You talk about starting with a 160 and then going smaller, honestly, I think the 100-120 machines, maybe even up to a 140 would do everything you want to do now and later. I don't think that going down to a 80 or smaller machine would be goo, because you talk about keeping trees limbed up and maintaining around creeks, I can tell you that you will want reach. No matter what you have, you will wish it could reach a few more feet when working around ditches and creeks or anyplace where you don;t want to track a ot due to soft wet ground and such. Also, it you are buying used, you don't want to put repairs and good maintenance into machine that you are going to downsize and start over. Unless you look at it as an opportunity to fix up a machine and get more out of then you put into it to begin with. That might work to get a better smaller machine, but of course the smaller machines come at a premium over many of the larger ones. I am so have to say that I I agree with cuttin edge on the tracks. Rubber tracks have a lot more flex and are really intended for hard ground use as well as concrete and asphalt. If you are going through the woods, I would want steel tracks.
There's not one perfect size, that's for sure. We have a 6 ton and a 20 ton excavator. Both extremely useful for the intended projects. A 16K machine would be a nice size that would still be good for most everything.
If you find yourself stacking big heavy trees with the thumb you will be glad you got a heavy machine.
Good luck and hope you enjoy whatever machine you end up with. I would suggest this for a ranch machine: Most ranch machines I know stay on the ranch and aren't moved down a highway much. So Unless the machine is going to be moving often, I wouldn't factor moving into the equation very heavily. I do know this, when grubbing mesquites, 50,000 pounds is good, probably minimum or close to it. 80,000 is better. The heavier the machine, the less it jerks and tips trying to pull up a big tap root. Especially when conditions aren't perfect. A 30,000 pound excavator can do the job, but it takes a lot longer and will wear you out by the end of the day. Lots of jerks/tipping trying to yank on trees, and won't be able to utilize as much reach.
I agree North Texan on size. If I had a ranch or large piece of property I knew I wouldn't be moving the machine often from I'd go with a 330/300 sized machine or larger. My 321 is a bigger pain to move than a 314/315 size machine but we don't have to work it as hard and when you need the power and reach - you need it. I hire out my hauling to a local towing/recovery company that has a new 3 axle traveling Landoll trailer which is a dream to load on. $300-500 per move, sign a ticket and the truck and driver are off my payroll. They offer quick service, same day or next day at worst. I can handle and schedule around that.