After I lossed out on a chance to do two good paying jobs by not having an excavator Im kinda looking around at some. I ask for advice on here about what size I would need to do the job and most said a 30T class machine (stumping sawmill size wood around 35 acres). Okay so I first thought I would buy a older tandem dump truck and a 25T tag and a nice size hoe and weight wise it sounds fine but the bridge laws kill that idea I think. Seems you can get bigger machines for the same price as smaller ones. What I dont know is how big the machines get before they start getting overwidth. I can find an older tandem haul truck and 25T or so lowboy pretty reasonable but dont wanna fool with permitting everywhere I go. Im not in fulltime dirt business (I work as an engineer in the oilfield) so I wont be moving it all over the countryside all the time. I also live in rurul Texas so no big city traffic or stuff like that. I saw something about a blanket permit but you would have to be pulled over by the law before they would know you had a permit. I have drove OTR for several years when I was younger and found out that if you get pulled over they usually find something wrong.....logbook, airleak, health card out of date, etc. I dont wanna deal with that really.
after u go over a 15 ton machine there over width even a 15 ton with wide pads is over width u can haul a 20 tone hoe on a 30 ton tag trailer we put the buckets in the back of the tandem to make sure were legal
Well dang there is just no end to this madness. How does that work with the bucket in the back of the dump.....sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Did you set it down in the dump or just swing it over in there and keep it off the floor? What kinda permits are there to haul the bigger stuff in Texas? I know when I hauled drilling mud they had a permit that let them carry a little more, I think this is it here. Just want to buy the biggest I can and be able to haul it around legally. And would love to do it with a dump/tag combo. http://www.dot.state.tx.us/business/motor_carrier/overweight_permit/annual_over_axle.htm
I've got a 10 wheel dump, 3 axle Trailmax tilt trailer, and we regularly haul a 315 no problem. We also haul a 320 but its so heavy you should get permits and such. Nice setup and you can still get into some pretty tight spots.
I would like to stay away from triple axle trailers because of tire scrub.....got to fix a triple axle trailer as soon as I get home next Monday from this very same reason. I really want a dump/tag but was told the bridge law would get me with very much of a hoe. So then I decided to look at some semi's and lowboys so I could get a bigger piece of equipment......now there overwidth, LOL! I would love to be able to haul a nice size machine on a dump/tag setup.
With a triaxle dump and a 25t tag you can move a 200, but the combo can get squirrelly fast. And your still going to need an overwidth/weight permit 24k truck+18k trailer+50k excavator=92K GVW 12k over Texas non-permit GVW. All it will require is an overwidth sign front and rear and flags on the widest part. Oh, don't forget the graft to your local DOT office. A 200 is the minimum for production stumping and a 300 will do better. As long as you can keep Tractor+Trailer+Ex under 120K GVW it will cost you the same to move either way. Same mob cost with more production.:drinkup
Hmm, okay thanks for all the info. The tri-axle dump is not really what I wanted to hear. Those arent as prevalent around here as they seem to out west or the PNW. Im not gonna be running this hoe everyday or might not every week. So the minimum size machine would do what I needed to do. But if I can find a bigger machine for cheaper I will go that route. Im just not familiar with the trailer weigths and how to scale all this out.....my experience is scaling out reefer trailers full of produce coming off the west coast and even that has been nearly 10 years ago. And how much do 200 and 300's weigh? Im thinking 40K and 60K +/-. I have to buy older machinery/trucks/trailers cause thats all I can afford plus I dont use them all the time so the 200 size machine will probably be enough for me.
Keep in mind in East Texas most stumps are less Ive dealt with are in the 18-24" range or smaller. We just dont have that big timber like alot of you folks do. And if we do have it we aint cuttin it down.
Well I just bought a 1988 Freightshaker tandem daycab. 3406 450hp Cat manual motor w/9 speed w/800K on it.....not too bad at all for the year. It has aluminum headache rack and gang box on the back. Needs a little tinkering (radio, city horn, heat only blows in floor, stuff like that) but for $3500 I dont think I could go wrong. Gonna need a few tires on the back in the future.
basically the number on the machine is the weight roughly 320 to tonnes 324 24 tonnes 330 is 30 tonnes and so on i wouldnt go smaller than 20 tonne machine personally
well glen, sounds like you have made a start at it. I'd keep my eye on your craigslist and stuff and see what for trailers come up for sale. Do you have the space to add a tag to the truck? If you do that might let you into the heavy haul game with the right trailer. Here is what I see. Kauffman will sell you a 33 ton step deck for about 20. With that set up you can load your dozer on the front and the hoe on the flat if you get a small hoe. This would entail putting ramps between the steps of the trailer & some weight checking to see if axle weights are in sink. If you drop back to a 50k trailer you take 5k off the sticker. Likewise thru kauffman you can get a 55 ton detachable for the low 40's - new. Reason I say this is because I've found used trailers priced higher than new one occasionally. Just something to keep in mind when lookin at a nice used trailer. Hoe wise, the 300's seem to be the most popular, and if it works for everyone else, it should work for you as well. Get a hydraulic thumb on whatever you get. Most of all take pics and show is what you find. Ive seen alot of good advice come from everyone on here from people that know the different machines inside and out and can help you avoid buying something you shouldn't
No way Im in the market for a new trailer.....prolly not even something made in the new millenium. LOL! I would like to find a 25-35T lowboy but still learning these weights on machines and seeing what fits and what I can haul without a huge hassle. ie. Permitting every move, whether over weight/width. I want to avoid that really. What is the deal with the overwidth permit? Is it something you can buy at the beginning of the year and just put banners/flags up when you do it or is it an every move type situation?? Im trying to find something about like this truck I bought. Decent little starter rig, no frills and is a good foundation. Something I can tinker on along the way and come out with something that WORKS for now just might not be the BEST looking thing going down the road. I dont plan on going far for work but who knows.
The biggest machine you can move without any permits is a 120, maybe a 160 if it has narrow pads. Permits are a fact of life in this industry. Hauling a 200, baring an ultralight lowboy like a murray easyload, you are still going over the 80K max GVW. There is one permit for everything between 80K and 120K so 90K or 115K makes no difference as long as you can scale it. Axles, tires, distribution, ect. 300 and 350 class excavators generally weigh between 70K and 75K, so that leaves 40K to 45K for the tractor and lowboy.
Thanks Hvy 1Ton. Excuse me if Im ignorant but a 200 class machine should weight 40K right? Could I not haul that under gross? Im thinking mt truck is gona be around 16k empty. That leaves 24k for lowboy. Im sure that will be overwidth. Another question. Alot of the old lowboys Im looking at are 96" wide. Is that gonna matter? A 200 class machine should fit without getting on the outside of that right?
Most 200s weigh in from 44,000 to 50,000, all depends on how the machine is set up (width of tracks, long or short undercarriage, stick length, bucket, thumb, how much dirt is in the tracks, ect) 300s are 75,000+. With narrow pads on a 200 size machine you are 9-10' wide, the wide pads are more common 10-11' width. A 96" wide trailer will work fine for moving these machines, you just have 6-18" hanging off of both sides of the trailer. With a light 200 (no extra buckets, thumb, clean & low on fuel) and a light trailer you may be able to get under the 80,000 gross, however at that point it may just be easier to get a permit. Keep in mind that the DOT tends to target older trucks at least they do around here.
Okay thanks for the info guys. This is not something that Im gona be moving every day. Also the big thing is Im not close to a big city and hope to keep my little operation local. Im only off every other week anyway. So lets talk permits a bit. How much are these things running? Do you have to buy a permit everytime you move or can you get a blanket permit that is good for so many days.....year, 6 months, something like that. I know when I used to haul drilling mud we had a permit that let us go over gross but not by much.....like 6K I believe with some breathing room. That would prolly be enuff to get me by.
I have been going through the same decisions you are Glen1978. Here is where I am/was at. I don’t clam to be an expert, but this is how I made my decision. I have a truck and two axel detach lowboy. It weighs 32k empty. I had an old 215 cat track hoe. It weighed about 42k. Weight wise I was ok with this set up. I was over width so I needed permits for that. In Iowa you can get an annual over width permit for state highways. Each county issues annual over width permits for county roads so I need a permit for each county I go in. Cities can also require permits but none of the small towns around here know anything about that. My trouble came when I sold the 215. I wanted to replace it with a 320cl cat. It weighs 48k. 32k plus 48k equals 80k, no problem right?-wrong. They only allow 34k on each tandem, truck and trailer. Hauling this machine would depend on me being able to get full 12k on front axel. I don’t think that is possible. I would have to add an axel to the tractor or change lowboys. The way I get it is you need to consider total and axel weights together. I ended up going with a 315cl. It weighs 37k. I hope I didn’t make a mistake I know I will miss the extra weight the old 215 had. Hope the newer machine makes up for some of the difference. Good luck, Hawkeye on this site helped me a lot on this.
Thanks for the info. Very good info there Jimson. I think a 315 would be all I would ever need. How much were you over the 34K on your axles with the 320? And I doubt you could get the full 12K on your front axle....try sliding your seat up some! lol. I was just wondering cause if you were close in weight you could get this (at least in Texas) http://www.txdot.gov/business/motor_carrier/overweight_permit/annual_over_axle.htm I guess I just need to call and find out about the overwidth permits in my county.
Well made the phone call today to talk shop with TxDOT. Found out several things. I dont wanna fool with overweight stuff....$$$$!! Overwidth is not tooo awful bad and can go up to 13'. They only offer 30, 60 or 90 day permits at $120, 180 and 240 respectively. 90 days is as long as you can go at a time. They do not offer the over tolerance weight permit.....its only for hauling commodity type items. An annual overweight permit is $4000 bucks!!!!! NOPE! Didnt even ask them about day trips and such cause I really dont wanna fool with it. If I cant do the job I can lease a machine or something. So looks like something overwidth might be doable but dont wanna fool with overweight. So that narrows it down on the hoe Im gonna look for. Sounds like the Cat 315 would be about right to me but man there pricey. Any suggestions on a good hoe....no pun intended? Overweight is out of the question, over width is doable but neither would be perfect. Im not asking much.........
I never got the 320 on my trailer. I was looking at a 320 and almost bought it then it hit me i may not be able to haul it. It also appears that 320's got heavier as new model 320 were released. Example a 320L is lighter than a 320CL. As far as sliding the seat goes i probley should lay off the beer&pizza for better results. I think the perfect machine for moving is a 318. They weigh about 42k. I recently read on another post that somebody didnt get the reason for the 318. I think it makes perfect sence, its the heaviest machine you can haul on a two axle with out being overweight. The trouble is they didnt build very many of them and they are a little hard to find. I wanted one but couldnt find a decent one in my price range. Those overwidth permits are expensive. Iowa is $25 each for one year.
Laying off the pizza/beer is not a good idea! $25/bucks a pop huh.....wow. Texas is a racket. Yeah I have not seen too many 318's. What other machines are of this size that are common like the 315? Common usually means cheaper but not so much with the Cat 315's. But if you add up all the permits required to move a bigger machine then you actually come out ahead. Im sure alot of folks need that big machine but I really dont. Just wont the biggest I can get away with.
Richie Bros auction at Fort Worth has a Volvo EC160BLC coming up Mar 9. 2006 with 2400 hours?
I'm a big fan of Deere/Hitachi 160's. Whatever make you go for, get a short stick with aux hydraulics plumbed to the stick and buy a good thumb and bucket. Here is the link on that ec160. I would be surprised if it goes for much less than $40,000, but odd things happen at auctions.
When i was shopping i looked at Cat, Deere, Hitachi, Komatsu and Kobelco in the 160/315 size range. I looked a kobelco 160 that i really liked. Problem is around here service and parts for all but cat could be a problem. Cat has two mechanics withing 20 miles and overnight parts drop 1 mile away and cat will always have better resale. All of the rest are at least 75 miles for parts or service. When i looked at what i could save on the front end i think i would loose on the back end.
I hear ya guys. I was thinking about going to the Ritchie Bros auction. I dont know a thing about Volvos except they make the roughest riding truck I have ever drove. My buddy runs all Komatsu hoes and is having great luck out of them. All parts (Deere, Cat, Case, Kobelco, Komatsu) are not even an hour away with Komatsu being the furthest. Volvo is out of Dallas and would be about 2 hours or better away.
It seems like you have to pay a premium for the Caterpillar name. Here is one that seems over priced at auction. http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item/304035?h=405-1%2C4813 Another brand with similar hours. http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item/301924?h=405-1%2C4812
Yessir, that is way high on that I would say......especially if you read all the problems with it. Im trying to find something comparable to the CAT 315 (weight and width.......read legal and legal) and not the CAT name.
All the 160 machines are real close on weight and dimensions. I'm still voting for Deere/Hitachi 160's. Here is a Deere 160C that is going across the auction block in 6 days. Not a short stick, but the only one i've found with aux plumbed to the stick. It will probably sell in the low 30's or higher, just depends on who is there and who has money to burn. ointhead Sidenote: With Hitachi, Komatsu, and Cat check serials, especially on left coast machines to make sure they are not grey market. Otherwise you might do this when you go to the parts counter.
How can you tell on the serial numbers if there grey or not? I think I really wanna stay with a bigger machine than a 160. I would really like a pretty good size one but not getting into overweight stuff. Overwidth is questionable but doable.
wow i was running a 320 for the week i had it on demo today back to the 315 man is it useless compared to a 320 lol like running a mini x
You don't need to run ever serial you look at, but if decided to buy a left coast machine i would run it by your local dealer or the mechanics/salesmen on here. Normally there will be some give aways; non-english warning labels and serial plates, weird colors(except sunbelt green), and weird boom configurations(parallel offset, ect). Your choices for big legal load excavators are 160's and cat 319Ln's. I'm pretty sure the 318 is a wheeled excavator only. As far as i know, no one else has made a machine comparable to the 319Ln. It is a small market, because they are only useful here, everywhere else in the world they would just buy a 320 and be done with it. ointhead
318's are definitely available on tracks, a customer has 3 of them, but they seem much less capabkle than a 320, for some reason
Yeah I looked them up, definetly tracked. The M318 is a wheel loader. The Ritchie Spec Sheet website is awesome! I would love a 320 but as has been said hard to scale one out legally. 320CL is 47K. I heard someone mention getting one that was pre-computer controlled. What years/model numbers would these be?
Well, I've never claimed to know everything. At least not as far as i know. link from timmy http://www.rbauction.com/details-en_US/CATERPILLAR-318CLN-Hydraulic-Excavator_2930559/ci
Here is a Cat 318CLN coming up for auction soon in Washington. I thought you could look at the pictures and drool if its out of your budget! http://https://www.rbauction.com/details-en_US/CATERPILLAR-318CLN-Hydraulic-Excavator_2930559/ci
I think your going to be asking quit a bit from a 315 sized hoe for this kind of work. I look into a 953 track loader with a 4n1 bucket or a dozer like a 700 John Deer with a root rake or rippers if you need them. Dozers ain't going to fly to well if your burning all the trees though.
I cant get the link to work......but every 318 I have seen is WAY out of my budget. Man those things are pricey. Im looking in the mid 20's to low 30's max. I would love to find an older piece of equipment thats in good shape. Maybe an older JD690 or something like that. Older, cheaper, good piece of iron. If it breaks down I can work on it and dont have to work it all the time to pay a huge note. Thats the plan anyway.
Well my neighbor bought a Kobelco SK03 excavator other day and I was over on my dozer (550G LGP) helping him stump some of his property. Even with his TINY machine (16.5K pounds) we were making pretty quick work of it. He would dig around the root base a little and I would come pluck it up and back fill. I would love to have a bigger machine but not getting into pulling overweight stuff. No way, no how. This is just a side job/hobby for me to keep me something to do in the 6 months out of the year thats Im off (with pay).
Try it again. Too many HTTPs http://www.rbauction.com/details-en_US/CATERPILLAR-318CLN-Hydraulic-Excavator_2930559/ci
machines in pretty nice shape low hours to has pretty narrow pads on it tho i see a wedge style bucket coupler i love the hydraulic detach wont ever go back lol
I watched each one of these machines sell. The Cat was way over priced. It needs $15k in the turntable alone on top of the sale price not to mention all the other problems. I have seen several machines with real problems bring to much. It seems like the more problems they have the better they sell. Somebody said there is a sucker born every minute, this sale was proof. More often than not people get stupid at auctions. My opinion Ironplanet is a great place to sell a machine but be carefull when you buy. They do a great job telling you about the machine what you have to be cafefull of is not being informed and setting limits on yourself. The Cat probably went in a container and overseas. They will use it till dead then scrap it. The Kobleco on the other hand was a very good buy. Look at catused.com you can find a similar hour/age machine for less money without all the problems. It does seem like you pay a premium for the Cat name. You can have just as many problems with a cat as you do any other machine.
Yeah I can already tell you I cant afford that 318! Thats a nice looking hoe. Looked at CAtused.com, pretty good looking JD690E LC on there for what seems like a decent price. Getting on the verge of over weight I think though. RitchieSpecs show a 690E LC Long Front that weighs 43890 and a 690E (but in the pic shows an E LC) that weighs 44230. I mean it would be close.....pretty sure under gross but dont know if I could axle it out.
Hey guys one thing in Iowa on the hauling is your front axle weight limit is not what your truck says it is. It is what your front tires are rated at. Example 12000 lb front axle 425 tires 10000 lb /tire == 20000 lb legal weight on front axle slide that plate all the way up and get some bigger rubber. Look for an older lowboy with 3 axels and get a 20 to 25 ton machine we rented an spare hoe last summer from a farmer cat 325 L it might have had some age but it was a strong old machine looks like 30 to 40 K will buy one. think you could find a lowboy for around 10 to 14k here is a link to one I just looked at http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2678507&
Used to be like that for axle weights in B.C. years ago. Now it is the lowest rated weight, either tires or axle rating. Each state could be different. We had lower rated tires placed on a tag trailer by the tire shop by accident. The scale boys caught it one day and we had to get them replaced or live with the lower total allowable weight.
Yeah there good about going off of what ever is the least or most. I would think they would pick the 12K axle though. I do have an airslide 5th wheel on my truck I bought. That is one NICE older trailer. Not really wanting a trip axle but if would make be be able to haul a bigger machine thats the way I wanna go. Seems you can find some nice bigger older equipment for alot cheaper cause there a permitted haul. I dont mind getting overwidth but dont wanna fool with overweight. What do these trailers usually weight....ball park? All the ones like I have been looking at are like the one in the link but are different tonnage and most are two axle trailers. Example, http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2693499& 20-25 Ton tandem axle 40 ton like in the link
So what direction did you go with for the lowboy and excavator size?