And so it begins.... Greetings all. Discussions in the dozer thread have conjured up an interest among patrons of HEF in some long term reading material. I am embarking on my 1st rodeo of a 65 home subdivision. This will be a 'living' thread in that my intention is to keep it up to date for the duration of the project. The civil infrastructure is expected to take 2 to 3 years and will be done in 3 phases. Each phase will prepare a section of the development for a build of approximately 16 homes per year over 4 years. I am the general contractor and I have a financial partner who has ponied up $750,000 towards the project. $500,000 is for the civil infrastructure itself and the remainder had gone towards all permits, surveying, engineering, etc. costs. Below are bullet points to draw from on where we have been and are to date: * The project started in October 2022 when we first were introduced to the property * The property is 24 acres with 2 acres being a utility easement running along the east side of the property and therefor we can not develop on it. * The property was initially farm land and zoned RR (Rural Residential) which essentially meant one house could be built for every 18 acres. * Property has been rezoned to R1 (Single family dwellings) * All lots are at minimum 6000 sq ft. The largest being 17,000 sq ft. * We are fortunate that we are just outside city limits and therefor not subject to city requirements, only county * Housing is desperately needed in these parts for the blue collar worker which is our target clientele. * All rezoning, hearings, approvals took from fall of 2022 to this last June to be completed/approved. * Pushing dirt started this last June. * A mile of silt fence has been put up around the perimeter. * There is a 2.85 acre retention pond that is in progress at the moment. * We were extremely fortunate that at the time we began this process the state was putting in a brand new water and sewer system that boarders the development on two sides and the state has offered taps at both points. * Grinding pumps are required on each lot and therefor the sewage is a pressurized system. No septic or grading for sewage lines are necessary. All storm drains will drain to the retention pond. * We have a creek that traverses through the property and is fed by local farm land runoff (we are the beginning of the creek) which is the main reason for the retention pond. * A portion of this creek currently traverses the area the retention pond is being built. The pond will have a floor approximately 5 feet below the current creek floor (i.e. it is intended to hold 5 feet of water at all times.) * The entire creek area is heavily vegetated. All has been cleared over the pond foot print, 55% has been cleared otherwise. * The pond is trapezoidal shaped with the north and south being parallel, the south being shorter than the north. * The property is also trapezoidal shaped and the pond sits essentially center of the property. * There are two rows of houses separated by a looped road with a single point of ingress/egress. * The 'inside' row will have the luxury of water front property (bordering the pond) * The engineering has made the development nearly dirt neutral. A lot of dirt has to be moved from the north side to the south side. The east side, which will be the 1st phase of housing has minimal dirt to be moved. * Initial housing build (Phase I of 4) will start next May. * Roads will be done with a mixed lime base to the soil instead of a gravel base. * While we initially wanted to build the homes, we have found a reputable builder in the area which wanted to purchase all developed lots and that is the path we are going down. * We have been very fortunate to have gotten a TIF package for this development. It covers approximately 55% of the cost of the total civil infrastructure development. The remaining 45% comes out of our pockets. * All roads, sewer, and storm drains will transfer to county ownership 5 years after completion. * This is our 1st rodeo, as it is the 1st rodeo for all govt. personnel involved with it. The last subdivision that has gone in in this county was in the 70's and pre-dates all involved today. * All construction criticism and comments are welcomed but please understand, we are bound and tied by a number of restrictions which will/have affected our ability to travel down a desirable path over a not so desirable but necessary path. * Our equipment resources are not unlimited however they do continue to expand. Suffice it to say we are NOT a large developer with redundancy in equipment and deep pockets for the latest and greatest. Many will question our sanity taking on such an endeavor... hence the title of this thread. Many planets had to align for this project to move forward... and they did. It doesn't mean it won't be without it's trials and tribulations... in other words... this is not a your standard boiler plate civil development. That will be the next one. Please take all of this into account as you contribute your .02 cents. In most cases I'd like to think that there is method to our madness... that doesn't always mean there is. I know there is much more to add to this list and it is unfortunate that the owner of the thread does not have unlimited editing rights and I don't think we have the ability to moderate the thread so any additional information will be added through the individual posts and would have to be searched upon to review. It also means there may be redundancy in questions asked and answers given. As stated, this is my first rodeo in a subdivision development. I have a small crew and all of us are involved in every aspect of the development. This is absolutely an OJT environment so please be discerning and gentle with your comments. At 67 I probably should be on a cruise ship somewhere... accept I don't like cruise ships. I do like jumping in with both feet however and I don't mind being the underdog. The purpose of this thread is to provide others an idea of the beginning to end process of a civil infrastructure and the equipment used and tasks performed through the entire process to allow discussion and comments to be contributed by the reader and to allow those much more experienced than I to play the role of mentor which I thoroughly embrace. My time is limited on the editing of this and subsequent posts so if anyone reads this sooner than later and has any other questions or desire for info make it quick so I can include it on this initial post. I will continue to add other posts in the process and procedures that have led up to pushing dirt. It is possible that a parallel post on YouTube may be tied to this thread for the purpose of video accompaniment as well. Thanks for coming along for the ride.
Does this creek run water 24/7/365? If so, I think one of the first things would be to dig a 'run around' so you can get the holding area dried up ASAP.
It runs water every time it rains. If it rains enough... it will have water for some duration (days/weeks) and yes... we have begun our 'run around'. It actually has little one inch fish that show up out of no where when water is running. Apparently a type of fish that lays it's eggs in the bed of the creek and it has to dry out and re-hydrate for them to hatch. It's the weirdest thing. Did I say we were the 'beginning' of the creek? Side note... if the housing doesn't work we can raise crawdads.... 100's on the property. Purchased a Ditchwitch 4500DD with a 5' trencher and boring attachment which will be useful down the road for sewer and water lines under the road. It also worked very well for installing the silt fence.
be very careful about the creek/retention pond/fish. that very setup halted a TVA dam for a snail darter fish that 40 years later can't be found but still have flooding and lack of water depending on rainfall.
Certainly hoping that more reasonable minds prevail at the EPA now that Trump has revamped them.
A lot of towns in my area have had to accept the demands from the state legislature for more housing. Therefore the towns that were giving all the builders that weren’t on the favoritism list a hard time, that has essentially ended. When I built my last (hopefully) house, on the cusp of Covid, they were mean and unfriendly. Now, with arms wide open, they welcome all builders. Good luck with your project. I built my second to last house in Tennessee and when I went down there to build, I had 5 sets of building plan, for every aspect of the project. There was no one to look at them. No building inspector, nothing. Only met the mayor of the town, showed him my plans and his response was “ oh, you’re out in the county, just don’t use 55 gallon barrels for a septic, please “. While I despise all this building going on and feel it will help ruin the country I grew up in, I will be dead before I see a house from my deck view. It will be my children and grandchildren that will figure out that once you built a house on that hunting land, they will never unbuild that house.
I'm originally from Montana and grew up in Seattle. All the libs from California have long since ruined both. I can certainly relate. Still.... greater population translates to greater needs and it's difficult to find a balance. In this area affordable housing (not welfare housing) is impossible to find around here. Manufacturing is making a come back and young families need homes. Our homes will be in the $250 to $350 range. Nearly impossible to build a new home for less. There is another subdivision going on in the area that is in the $350 to $450 range. Quite out of reach for the blue collar worker. You probably wouldn't want to hear all the crap we had to deal with in the public hearings leading up to our approval. All that boarder on the property seen this as their own personal sanctuary and had long since encroached on it. They had every opportunity to purchase this land as we did. We got called liars, thieves, and cheats and they had no idea who we were or knew anything about us and certainly never bothered to get the facts. I should probably get into this as it was a part of this process.... a very undesirable part of it.
Okay.... lets start with the preface to this project. My background started out in construction as a teenager and into my early 20's. I rather thought that my profession would be that of a general contractor back then. My dad's profession was HVAC and at one time had the largest residential HVAC outfit in the northwest. So I cut my teeth on duct work fabrication and the like from the age of 14 on. At 18 I became a licensed electrician in the northwest. Was licensed in Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Oregon. At the age of 21 I managed a semi automated sheet metal production facility specializing in all HVAC fittings, duct work, round pipe, etc. for commercial and residential environments. I also was going to college majoring in accounting and minoring on the very first Apple computers. Realized technology was where I needed to be. Couldn't afford to quit work and go to school full time so in '82 ended up joining the Army and got the best component level electronics training I could have. That's what brought me to the midwest. While still in the Army I had an IT business installing, repairing, and programming computer equipment of that period. This was in the original IBM PC, XT, and AT days and spent the next 35 years owning an outsourced IT business covering the midwest area. After that length of time fixing other peoples stuff, over and over again... I got quite burned out on it and decided to shut down my business and jump back into construction and renovation. This was just prior to COVID and one would have thought that would be the worst time to get into such a business but my business flourished during that period. My partner approached me (I had been doing work on many homes he owned) about teaming up in real estate projects. Initially it was to flip homes but we could never find anything we could buy, put the money into, and make anything out of it after the fact. Then started thinking outside the box and looked to create multi family dwellings out of abandoned churches. There was a 35,000 sq ft church in the area we tried to go after and it turned out that it was very heavily water damaged. The owner then piped up and said he had 24 acres outside of town, would we like to see it. Well we fell in love with it in Oct. of 2022. From there forward we set out to rezone the property and put ourselves into a position to develop it. So this is the beginning of this endeavor. We made an offer on the property contingent on rezoning and set out to do just that. The property is in a beautiful setting of soft rolling hills (a far cry different from the flat corn belt that makes up a good portion of the midwest) bordered on three sides by tall trees and the utility easement on the east side with an old subdivision on the other side of it.. The property was initially land locked but the previous owner, who had the property for ages and the forethought to purchase two lots that tied the north side of the property to a county road and also two lots on the west side that tied it to a state road. The property adjacent to the state road is just shy of 2 acres and we decided to hold it till after the subdivision project is complete and pursue some type of commercial/retail use of it. It however has a pole barn on it already and it is the only way to enter and leave the land locked property. The other two lots mentioned earlier are completely vegetated and will require clearing and all before it will become the primary ingress/egress of the subdivision. Had we just the property along the state road we then would have had to negotiate with the state and be subject to their whims regarding ingress/egress from the state road. We knew right away we didn't want any part of that. As I stated, the first thing we had to do was to get it rezoned. Our initial desire was to rezone it R1 and R2. This would have allowed single family dwellings and multi family dwellings up to 6 plex units. Our intent was to have a section that included duplex's. In the first public hearing required by the zoning commission, we had numerous city and county dignitaries, including the city major, show up to speak in support of the development. The mayor got up to speak and expressed how ours was one of 6 potential subdivision developments that would add up to 250 new homes to the area. Right off the bat the audience, comprised of nearly all of the neighbors of the property took that comment to mean we were going to put 250 homes on essentially 20 acres (the actual acreage being developed) and we were off to the races. For 20 minutes they argued with the Mayor who was trying to set the record straight that 250 homes were not going on our property. Then it was the audiences turn to come up and speak there opposition to the rezoning. They proceeded to interrogate my partner and I and questioned why we were putting in low income housing and how many. We were doing nothing of the sort. Further, we had no idea at that time what the actual housing count would be and we told them so. We were called liars... we then told them this was not low income housing... and we were again called liars. What was supposed to be only 20 minutes of opposition turned out to be 2 and half hours because the planning committee lost control of the hearing. We were called everything but white in that meeting. Kinda humorous as I am native american. It was not an enjoyable evening. It took nearly a year to finally get approval from the commission to rezone. The vote was 8 to 1 in our favor. The one descending vote was a board member who's family was preparing to do the same thing with their property and have it rezoned. He seen ours as providing competition and voted against ours when he should have recused. No matter... we achieved what we needed to and now were off to the next hurdle... providing a conceptual set of drawings of the property and what we intended to do with it and getting preliminary approval. I should mention that during the rezoning phase, all the opposition were convinced our development was going to lower their property values so between the first and second public hearings we chose to only go after R1 and forgo the duplexes in an attempt to appease the natives. We found this made absolutely no difference to them and we should have just left it in our plans. In the end we were approved for R1. Stay tuned for the next adventure in our tale.....
So who are the operators for the machines? Is that just a learning experience? How many yards of dirt to move and how far? Is it used to fill an area? If so is it good construction fill? How much is top soil or over burden? You want the job done fast that means good and large machines not small junkers. Oh just now checked on facebook market and in shelton wa there is what says a 1960 D6 for $2500. said was running when it was delivered 4 years ago. I think its a bit older though.
Following.....
Our goal is to have the east road graded in, the pond complete, and the new ingress/egress area cleared before winter sets in. In these parts that hasn't been happening till mid to end of December. There is a very thin layer, 6" or so, of top soil. It doesn't take long to get into clay and with the drought we have been having it is tough to cut into the clay with the D6 blade. Wants to skip across the top. We had three days of rain last week which did two things. 1st, while raining it made it very slick and sticky to get much done. 2nd, it put enough moisture in the soil that I was able to peel 2" to 3" slabs of clay while pushing. We are not supposed to have rain again for at least 10 days. Considering sprinklers through the evening to dampen the soil but not make it slick. I certainly have better results and productivity with the dozer when it is. Doesn't take long to dry out however with the sun beating on it. I have segregated top soil from clay thus far. Maintaining reserve for use where needed down the road. I am hopeful that we will have two dozers in play midweek next week on the pond. One with a substantial ripper which will break up the clay allowing the D6 to better cut and evacuate. Appreciate the line on the D6 in Washington... believe transportation costs to the midwest would be substantially higher than the dozer itself. I will look for it however. Curious to see what kind of shape it is in for that price. My D6 has broken tension springs and a leaking tension cylinder on the left side. I have identified and purchased new tension springs but can not find tension cylinders. Have figured on putting the new springs in during January and February and hoping at the moment the cylinders can be rebuilt. Have fitted brackets to hold the left cylinder out to it's full extent which has helped to keep the track tight. It's not perfect but is working. In the first month I lost the track three times. I haven't since. Will follow up with your other inquiries this evening.
Sounds like an interesting project. Any pictures?
Soon to come
A lot to unpack here and brings back some memories. Over the years I have developed a subdivision or two and now do primarily commercial site work as a subcontractor. What type of street - asphalt, curb/gutter? San sewer - HDPE main pressure pipe with taps for each house? Assuming the builder will install the grinder pump and tie on as each home is finished. At least that is how it is done here. You said the state recently ran domestic water and san sewer mains that they are letting you tie on to. Lucky. Once had to run 4" DIP sewer force mains several blocks up a neighborhood road from the wet well we just installed complete with a 350 natural gas generator that I had to pay for all of it. HOA - yeah the dreaded HOA and ARC. Have you set those up? I too have been called a liar, crook, etc. Developed a 61 unit townhome project in the early 2000's. At no point was there a pool or a clubhouse that was designed, marketed or most importantly budgeted for the project. About mid-way through the project a group of owner/buyers decided that the project deserved a pool and club house and demanded I build one - after the fact.. Needless to say I was called all sorts of things after that and they didn't get a pool or clubhouse either. The most disheartening thing from being a residential builder/developer is the realization some people will lie like a rug if there is even just the minute amount of money for them to receive. Looking forward to your progress.
This is interesting, thanks for bringing us along. We have a 33 acre parcel of land across the street from my house that is for sale but I don't think there are any many interested, which is ideal for me. They just farm it for now but like some of the folks yelling at you I'd be nervous of a subdivision going in. I live on a very quiet road but we are only 4 miles west of Downtown Dayton, so I could see how the location could be attractive to a developer. Luckily (in a strange way) our local school system sucks, so there aren't many folks wanting to come join the 'hood. I'd love to buy the land but I think he's at 10k an acre or thereabouts, and there's no house on it, just an old falling down barn. I don't know much but it sounds like even though this is your first go that you are on the right path. I can't believe that 250-350k is blue collar house money. There is tons of that around here, mostly south, that are new build or relatively new build for that kind of money but it's still amazing to me that houses cost that much. That being said- I'm blue collar, lower-middle management in a house that was around that when we bought it. Now "worth" almost double 9 years later, though I think we could over double it if we wanted to sell... Good luck with the project, I too would like to see pictures!
It was a requirement during the engineering phase to have the bylaws of the HOA already in place and submitted for approval by the county.
Don't see how a HOA requirement is a benefit to middle income home buyer. That's all they need is have to pay into some crud which will require more funds later
We are putting lime mixed with the soil over a gravel base. The street, which is essentially a large trapezoidal loop will be asphalt. Going with predominately gutter but there will be some curb involved as well. The builder will indeed be installing the grinding pumps with each house. That plus the county permit fees for each home caused a $10k reduction in what we will get for each lot.
Agreed. I have no use for them.
I have some video to upload. What is the desired method for posting it in here?
Required due to the maintenance of the detention pond and other common areas?
Here are some pics. The first is a view from the north east corner of the property looking south. The second is a view from the north west looking east. The 3rd is taken from the north east corner looking at the north west corner The 4th is the north west corner looking south along the west boarder The 5th is looking from the south to the north east. The utility lines you see are on our property. There is a natural gas line (large one) on the same easement. The easement comprises 2 acres which we were required to purchase with the property. We can't build anything on this easement. Considering a walking path which we can do. The tree line you see in the center is a winding creek that runs from the north west side of the property to the center south. It is wet when it rains. If it rains like a busted elephants bladder it will run for several weeks given no additional rain. It is like the snake river... just the put put golf version. It is 2 feet to 6 feet wide and 2 to 3 feet deep however water for the most part is just covering the floor when it is flowing. These are before we started pushing any dirt. Hope to have latest aerial pics tomorrow evening.
No, required because it is a subdivision. The pond played no part in it. We were not given an option. Were told our plans wouldn't fly without it.
Wanted to let you know that the engineer has tagged 15,000 cubic yards need to be moved. Essentially from one end of the property to the other. The north side is the high side with the south side being the low. There is another 16,000 cubic yards that will come from the retention pond and also moved to the south side. The engineer has made dirt over/under essentially neutral.
30,000+ yards? That's a whole lot of dirt to rely on 50 year old machines to move. Sounds like a good job for a scraper or two. They are the most efficient way to bulk out material.
Quick job with the right machine/ s and operator / s. The only slow down is for compaction. Newer machines bit more efficient, but remember it takes X amount of diesel to move X amount of dirt. Just curious about what do you think moving all that dirt will cost you, please include the special purchased machines as well. Rough estimate of fuel and operators etc. You can rough calculate blade loads etc.
Even if the machines run good the operator(s) makes a huge difference. If they are inexperienced and/or haven't worked on large scale lot development will take a lot longer and cost a lot more. Even running a skid steer an experienced operator will do a better job a lot faster than someone with little experience.
YouTube is usually the method. I mean no disrespect to your project, but I'd be bummed if I lived in one of the houses on the left side of your first picture. Granted, you don't own the sites, sounds, smells beyond your own property lines it'd still be a tough pill to swallow. A big fat berm with maybe a heavy row of big arborvitae on top of it may help both them and your dwellings enjoy the sense of tree'd surroundings the other sides of your property has. Also, have you seen big rain on your creek? I only ask because my creek, also farm runoff, though not as big as what yours is, will flood about 2 acres of my back yard very quickly, to 6-10 inches deep. Without being able to see the terrain I can't tell if that'd be an issue or not, but it's worth considering.
Lots of people won't buy with any HOA involved
I'll be the Devil's advocate here. You can't stop new development especially in rural area's where there are existing subdivisions with multiple residences. Most counties will have limits on how many or the size of lots you can create. It reminds me of when I applied to subdivide 10 acres back in 2004. Other owners in the subdivision had already been allowed to subdivide their parcels (10-20 acre lots) as long as the minimum lot size was approx. 2 1/2 acres. The neighbor South of me subdivided their lot into two 5 acre parcels. The last people to move into the subdivision bought the 5 acre parcel beside my 10 acres. When I applied to subdivide into 3 parcels they opposed it. They were quite wealthy and somehow figured it gave them more power. At the county meeting to formally explain my plans the woman actually questioned; How many more times is the county going to allow further subdividing in the subdivision? She was a real piece of work! Figured the subdivision shouldn't have any more lots after they bought theirs. The only reason they could buy their lot was because my neighbor subdivided their 10 acre lot. They also got the lot for a lot less than it was actually worth. Talk about an entitled beatch! She's the one I was really close to reporting for child endangerment because she was bombing around the property full speed on a new zero turn mower while holding a kid about 3 or 4 years old with one arm. Cringe is an understatement! If my dad would have still been alive I know he would have done something. He knew better than anyone how dangerous riding mowers can be if you're not paying 100% attention to what you're doing, especially a zero turn that requires 2 hands to operate.
Here it’s normal for gov’t to require an HOA for common areas maintenance such as ponds and other drainage infrastructure. They want no part of the cost to maintain and an HOA has the legal ability to lien owners when work is required.
I think the pond is the same idea as when a large parcel of land is turned into an acreage subdivision here. There has to be a seperate "reserve" land parcel that can't be one of the lots. Generally it's for recreational use. Kind of like architectural requirements for certain houses where you have to have a certain number and type of tree's and landscaping. It's a bunch of BS most of the time. If you don't want a tree in your front yard you have find somewhere else to live.
No equipment person will want anything to do with another sub government, HOA. Its like property taxes, you toss your $ thinking you own something and you really don't. Anyone that buys a place with an HOA deserves what comes to them. Ponds ? Many times they were a temporary deal and covered over after the project was done, seen that a few times.
Hi Dave. Agreed. I have purchased an IH412 and it has been a work horse thus far. It is currently scraping the new road on the east side and moving material from the high spots to the low spots. I had hoped to get recent aerial picks but have to wait till morning. Had an unusual high spot on the south end and found it to be sand... a huge pile of sand. The scraper is having a hard time picking it up. Just falls right out.
Just a reminder to all. I make no bones about the fact that this is my first subdivision civil infrastructure development. I have a crew of 3 and I am the only one that has heavy equipment experience. Still.... even my skills are not near what a good experienced operator is... however... you all started somewhere... this is our start. All comments are appreciated but suggestions that I 'can't' do something because I don't have the 'right' equipment or operator has little productive affect. I have interviewed supposedly 'experienced' operators but can't get passed the back ground check. All have had rap sheets a mile long. I can get past a lot but I can't get passed felonies for theft which all interviewees have had. It's not that I can't use them... I know I can and given I have another dozer coming I will need another operator. It would be ideal to have a seasoned operator for numerous reasons. My point... I'm working with what I have to work with and what resources (or lack there of) allow me to. Does it mean it will take longer?.... I'm not only certain of it... I know it to be the case. But we will prevail.
None taken. As you can see 3 of 4 sides have trees. We will indeed put some kind of berm and/or vegetation. That subdivision you are referring to has given us the most grief.
Yesterday I struck water. I've been working on the retention pond. I have several concerns. The first is the creek is two feet deep. It is not running now but did two weeks ago when we had 3 days of rain. It quickly dried up again however. The area I have been dozing however is still at least a foot above the base of the creek and I have standing water now. I ultimately have to go 5 feet below the base of the creek. On the high end of the pond (North end)... the clay I am having to remove is dried out and very hard. I have to come down as much as 18 feet to get to the base of the pond at that point. The blade skims over the top of the clay and leaves a mirror finish... well almost. I have the blade tilted to allow cutting from one edge over the other but it is having little effect. This, in part, is why I am going after the dozer with the ripper. These pics were taken three days ago before hitting water and tilting the blade. Considering using sprinklers at the top and allowing water to run down to soften the ground as the dozer had cut very well during the 1st and 2nd day after the rain.
I have not yet seen a monsoon of a rain and we are certainly capable of getting them. Having said that, while there is evidence of bank erosion there hasn't been any evidence of rise above the ground surface.... knock on wood. In the three years I have been dealing with this property I haven't seen the creek any fuller than 1/4 of it's capacity.
Are there any farmers near you? Thinking a HD chisel plow or even a heavy disc might loosen up your ground and wouldn't take too long. A subsoiler is another option. I know when I've dug with the backhoe once you get past the hard top layer the ground is much easier to dig. If you had aux. hydraulics maybe you could rent a heavy disc to pull with a dozer.
I am heading down south tomorrow to try to overcome a priming issue for the transmission on a D7/D8 class dozer that has a monster ripper on it. I've already looked at it and it is in great shape otherwise and I am poised to purchase it if I can address the priming issue. There is another thread under dozers on this forum related to that. I figure that with the 2nd dozer and that ripper I can really go to town on the pond.
Hmm not here. Detaining storm water run off is a major requirement on pretty much every new construction project even down to individual homes in some cities. A big part of what we do is storm water detention from ponds to underground systems - all permanent structures with yearly inspections and maintenance requirements. Storm water treatment systems beyond detention are required in most cities here now. We just installed a Barracuda unit on a fast food joint. We've installed several of these over the years. These units have to be inspected by a QCI every year with a report sent to the city.
Definitely some rippers. Big grader with a 5 bar ripper in the back can move a lot of dirt.
Sounds like you might need to start looking at adding an excavator to your fleet if you have hit water already. You could use it to top load your scraper if need be.
In those photos what is being done there? Moving top soil? A pond? So where are the stakes marking it? Has a bench mark been set on the job site? You know an elevation to work from.
Hi Dave, That is an option. I have to believe that as this ground was planted for many years that the discs the farmers used to turn the soil did the trick. I am working an option of the ripper and also a disk in parallel with each other. Had some success on the ripper but tomorrow will be the determining factor after a particular test is done on the dozer that has it.
I have identified a potential excavator and am looking at others. May also be able to rent one for the purpose. Looking into that too.
Anyone familiar with mixing lime into the soil to stabilize the road base? Our engineer factored in this method over gravel and I went looking for an outfit that could delivery a lime slurry but can't seem to find one. The major quarry owner in these parts does lime stabilization for highways and want's $30,000 a day to bring there equipment out to do ours. Given we are doing this in three phases that would get to be cost prohibitive. If we get it in powder form then I need to figure out how to apply it evenly across the road, mix it into the soil, then compact it and wet it to activate it. Any thoughts?
Save the $ buying junk dozers and rent one with a good operator and finish the dirt work in 2 weeks. Oh and not a D6. Since your considering renting a slow machine?? And what about the stakes and elevation bench mark? You need to know how deep to go etc. Or I'm guessing you have no engineering plans drawn up yet? I'd think it would be a requirement?
1st question.... what should a good dozer with operator run? 2nd question... it should only take two weeks to move 16,000 cubic yards of clay?
I have only used lime and baghouse dust to dry up soil. Soil cement is a whole 'nuther animal. Georgia Iron has some experience being around soil cement jobs on the big warehouse projects he fine grades. He'd be a good one to ask. All I know is if the soil cement is done correctly you have to get it to grade or below finish grade before it sets up.
I just used a 3 foot cut, and square land, for a side length of approx 380 feet, actually I let the bot do it all. And it came up with 23 hours to move that of course easy ground though and not the long distances that maybe required. The dozer I'd want would be one of my favorites a D475 Komatsu, and even down to a D375 would not do too bad either I spent many hours on the D375's. I was very used to getting jobs done and not playing around. I have no idea how close the bot is for machine speed etc. I'd still say close to 2 weeks considering farther distances but some maybe very short as well. But that likely does not include compaction.
You can get hydrated lime in bags but you have to have the right type of soil for it to work. I'd check if it has been used successfully in your area. You'd need a way to mix it in, maybe a disc. There's some info on the net.
Those are impressive machines for sure chidog... and massive. I can't argue that those would be quite desirable but at approximately $124,000 for a used 1980s version, and that's for one that has been sitting out in the fields with parts laying on the ground around it and no blade like an elephant carcass in the desert, talk about spending all one's time reassembling it... oooh buddy! Pic: https://media.sandhills.com/img.axd?id=8035152826&wid=4326182721&rwl=False&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=True&wt=False&sz=Max&rt=0&checksum=bBUiefXJxOAUUpZrjXAh1yCpBpzBxawCxenjU12rJAw= Actual listing: https://www.machinerytrader.com/listing/for-sale/226092649/1989-komatsu-d375-1-crawler-dozers I found a couple 80's versions at $75k but they looked like they were way beyond rode hard and put away wet!. My '60 D6 is in much better shape as is the A/C HD16. I'd be afraid that the electronics alone on that one above would be decimated. lol... the starter sitting on the track tho is a nice touch for a sales pic.
Lol - yeah a D10/11 size dozer would make quick work of pretty much anything.
The one outfit got 2 375's for 25K each, we used them for many years. Made a great clearing machine too. We had a few 25 acre jobs that we moved in the 2 of them. Like I say this one outfit, we did not play around we got the job done and moved to the next one. That is how you bring in the $, up time was not too bad on those old komatsu's either, towards the end I had to fight with the tracks on the bit older one. But had many D7's and D8's I had to fight tracks on as well through the years. But having a big machine doesn't mean much if you can't make it perform, then your just burning lots of fuel and nothing much happening. Electronics ? all ours where mechanical everything. I can't stand the new over electroniced and hydrostat crap.
I currently fight the left track on the D6. I know the issue... have a partial solution. But can't take the time to do it till we have some dead time... which will be in the depths of winter. Perhaps I should ask this... can the tension cylinders on at D6b be rebuilt? I have not been able to find replacements. I do have new springs... but really need to replace/rebuild the cylinders as well at the same time.
Anything can be rebuilt. And as parts get more difficult to find that will be the norm. Hopefully all you need is the seal kits, and no broke recoil spring, or rusted pitted bores. But then you have machine tools so make what you need if you can't find it.
Indeed. Spent yesterday afternoon doing just that for a sprocket on our Ditchwitch Trencher. Found that the previous owner never knew of a capped zerk on the end sprocket and therefor it never seen a bit of grease accept for the factory original. It failed spectacularly and was absolutely dry as a bone. No evidence there was ever grease. Was fortunate to find that there were only two sprockets available in the world and they were sitting on the shelf at the factory never to be made again. The bearings had welded themselves to the pin and we had to cut it out. Had to build up the pin (the pin is not available) with weld beads and machine it on a lathe back to factory specs. Found a seal kit for the tension cylinders on the D6. Hopefully those will do the trick. Currently they just are not holding grease very well. I don't see any pitting but if there is I will take the rods in to a local outfit that can add chrome layers to them and we can machine them back to spec as well. We had to do that to a crank shaft a number of years ago and it worked out very well.
I overlooked this. We do have engineering plans long since completed and approved by all parties involved at the gubment level. In the preceding 2 1/2 years leading up to the start of our project I spent a lot of time researching and purchasing survey equipment. I chose to go with Trimble but true to form, I purchased used equipment... man I thought dozer manufactures were proud of their stuff... have you priced Trimble? Anyway... picked up a total station (5603), R8 Receiver, and a TSC3 and they have been working very well. My son and my background are very heavy duty computers and automation. It's been pretty easy to figure out the Trimble equipment and our engineer created survey files for stake placements that we imported into the TSC3. We have laid out the curbs of the roads and the pond complete with elevations on each stake. How much to add/cut and turned the stakes inward so we can see them when passing by with equipment. Has worked very well for the scraper. What a difference the R8 with RTK makes over just GPS on the TSC3.
Yeah Trimble is 'spensive. We have a TSC5 rover, base station and auto's on a 325 excavator and D3. It was a sizable investment but it pays for itself very quickly. Now we can't be competitive without out our own GPS and grading model for a project. RTK is going to be more precise than GPS however there is the tradeoff of line of site. We've found Trimble GPS is accurate to within .05' or so which is acceptable for what we do.
As we are not using for foundations or buildings and such it works for us as well. We use the wifi connectivity to our cell phones to use RTK over internet. Makes a big difference. Your TSC5 is much better than our TSC3 on GPS... we were +/- 8 feet with GPS. lol With the RTK we are within a couple centimeters. You should have seen the center stakes for our road... you had to be drunk to drive it.
I have looked into auto's and holy cow are they expensive! We are actually looking at building our own from scratch. We've pretty much already acquired all the materials we need. It's the time part to assemble and program that we are short. Maybe a winter project to use for the next phase of the grading next summer. Will have to do everything manually with the TSC3 and total station for now. Can I assume CM1995 that your involvement in excavating pre-dates the modern day conveniences of the equipment mounted GPS controls?
Yes Sir you can. We got into GPS in '22 with a base, rover and autos on a D3. Since then added a 325 with autos. Pulled my fair share of string lines and leveled off hubs to get to finish grade than I care to remember. GPS is a game changer in the dirt moving world. We do mostly commercial/industrial work which I lump residential streets and roads into commercial. Really enjoy doing residential subdivisions just haven't done one in a while. Haven't done a sub with GPS yet.
Woohoo!!! The eagle has landed! We have had success! The HD16 moves! This is chronicled in this thread and you can read about it there for those playing at home. Allis Chalmers HD16DP Suffice it to say I will be moving forward with it's purchase and bringing it to the job site next week. Will see if I can get used to a decelerator. Have never had a machine with one before.
So can I pick your brain occasionally on getting to grade with the dozer and no magic boxes?
It will become second nature before you know it. If you are nervous about it think of it somewhat like a clutch pedal. Like you would push on a clutch pedal to change gears.
Without a doubt. Heck I use the decel pedal on our hystat dozers.
Well as if things were not busy enough. Starting next Monday we have 5 semi loads of materials coming in through Wednesday. Looking to haul the new dozer on Thursday. Thought I might rest on Friday but geee... the new dozer will be there. I have to play with it!
From what I have seen they change what they put down based on the soil type. I have seen them do upto 3 times if the material does not get hard. Then it basically turns to concrete. They spread out tractor trailer loads based on pounds per yard. The last job we were using straight cement they soil was sand. You might be able to get an old lime spreader like farmers use. Grade your road out and get it to drain right with the correct crown using the best dirt you have. Then you could use a large harrow turn the dirt till its really loose and broken up maybe 5 or 7 passes. You might even could use a pto tiller or skid steer tiller. Spread out the powder cement or lime. Then mix it back in. It needs to be well mixed. If it's too wet it won't work and if it's too dry it not as good. They have a water truck and add water if needed as the mixer mixes the ground. After its mixed you need to roll it tight with a roller. Then grade it. Then roll it again. Then let it get hard. If using cement it will get hard as you are doing it so you must move.
What is worse is if it had an accelerator like a car, you'd have a difficult time steering and have a very sore leg, pushing on a pedal to add power. No thanks, decel for the win. Doesn't the D6 have one? Or just full throttle all the time?
My D6 is a 1960 and does not have a gas pedal at all. It has the lever to set the rpms and runs constant. I do wish it had an RPM indicator. Not certain if I could retrofit one as I don't think there is a mechanical point to tap off of and there is obviously no coil to tap off of. Speaking of a sore leg. My left leg is being destroyed by turning left. Especially my knee. I have to push so hard on the pedal to actually turn... even a little. When I received the D6 the right steering didn't work and the left worked very well. I adjusted the right and it works perfectly now. The left, which I did nothing with has gone nearly gone away. I have to keep pumping the brake to the floor to get it to inch left. I've adjust the steering clutch as the lever had 5 to 6 inches of travel when it should have had 3. I have since adjusted the brake as the manual described but it has made no difference. I can see the brake pad lining and it is at least 3/16" in thickness. It does turn to the left in reverse better than going forward. I probably should open another thread for that.
I used some bagged lime to try and dry up a muddy area. I set up a pump because you do need moisture and I used a PTO tiller to mix it in. You want to wear gloves and a mask working with hydrated lime. It has to be hydrated lime not Ag lime but it all depends on the type of soil. If it is really wet the lime slurry will eat metal. They tried to use lime to dry up an extremely wet Supercross track several years ago. It did a real number on the bikes, especially with aluminum frames. It also caused bad chemical burns to the riders skin. San Diego Supercross lime controversy: Safety of riders, teams and crew 'top priority' says Feld Entertainment | Dirtbike Rider Feld Entertainment has said they are reaching out to riders affected by the lime and in their carefully worded statement offered their own explanation of when and why the drying agent was used at Petco Park. dirtbikerider.com
From what I have seen, they almost always use straight powdered cement, it might contain lime some times. I believe it runs about 7k per tractor trailer load delivered. It is very dusty and the spreader trucks that put it down take beating. The mixer has sides that lower to the ground to help contain everything it churns up. They have around 1000 hp. I always attempt to be up wind of the process. I believe they typically put down 30 to 45 lbs per square yard so you can do the math and compare that cost to something else. More than likely standard ole gravel or crushed concrete would be the easiest to deal with . Even that does not always last. I did a 1000 foot long driveway for a customer. Every dumpster load of stumps that went out came back with a load of rock in it. Since both were at the same place. Put down 24 loads of crushed concrete. By the time the house was built it was all gone. He ended up concreting the drive to the tune of 100k.... If you are still wanting to try it. I have a john deere 14' wide spreader that might do the job. Used they dont cost very much maybe 1800 or so, We spread lime on our food plots with it. It meters the material as the wheels turn spinning an auger inside. You control the amount by how far you open the gate. I might could pull off doing this. I would do the mixing with a tiller behind a tractor, to keep the dust behind me. I am just thinking that it will take way longer than spreading stone and until it is tested out your not going to know if it will hold up or not. They pump out the powered cement and it goes everywhere. He would need some way to contain it. Might could use a dump truck to hold it but it makes a heck of a mess and whatever you loose to wind erosion is lost. Equipment needed. Tractor, 6 or 8' wide tiller, harrow, dozer, roller, loader or skid steer, spreader, dumptruck with bed cover, water truck and a motor grader unless your good enough with a dozer... i have seen it done without the water truck but the soil had some moisture in it.
It depends on the specific type of soil if they use lime or cement powder to stabilize it. Awhile back someone posted if the clay had something in it then lime wouldn't work. I forget what is was. The big operators use big road grinders like in your pic. to mix the lime/cement.
I worked on several soil stabilizing jobs. One of them was new NASCAR track. We used fly ash. It was free. Com-Ed was eager to get rid of it. It was incorporated into the soil with a D8. I laid out the fly ash to a required depth. I have forgotten how deep it was. After doing that I tilted the dozer blade as far as it would go and cut trenches side by side and thoroughly mixed the clay and fly-ash. No water was added before or after. It was compacted with a Caterpillar 825 sheeps-foot roller after I rough graded it. Nascar had an engineering firm there, and they had a person there monitoring everything I did. The mixture had to cure for 7 days before it could be finish graded. That material was as hard as concrete by then. The graders had to have new cutting edges when they started and they didn't last very long. No scarifying was allowed.
deleted an accidental double post
Curious as to what the point was for grading after curing for 7 days. Common sense tells me it wasn't going to go well for the graders by that time.
Hold that thought Georgia Iron. I may very well take you up on that.
Fly ash is unobtainable here currently. The concrete companies gobble it all up. Last two pours we were on they raised the price because they were using straight cement. From what I have been hearing a lot of clincker comes in on barges now from China. This new 100% tariff is going to hurt if it sticks.
Dam, reading my post I see it looks like I was offering my services. Typing on a phone with limited service probably should be banned. I am not available to take on any new work currently. I was trying to point you in the direction of what to look for equipment wise if you decide to give it a go. Tinkerer says he mixed fly ash with just a dozer so you might try that and see if it works if you can get it from a power plant. As he said once it gets hard it is over. The p61s were trying to cut it down for me because they jumped ahead mixing and they ended up spending hour upon hour getting a 1.5" off. So i would do small areas and get it right as you go. Other wise you will regret it if it does get hard and you are too high for your final finish height.
Oooooh noooo... don't back out on me now!
Am I correct in understanding that fly ash and coal ash are one in the same? If so... from what I see the EPA is cracking down mightily on coal power producers at the moment as they have deemed fly (coal) ash quite toxic. Do I have that right?
Maybe they all got laid off.
Fly ash does come from coal fired power plants. I don't know if it's toxic but a lot of coal fired plants are getting shut down or converted to natural gas at least in Canada.
They were all being shut down during the last administration in the states. In fact... the plants were being paid to shut down. It's the current administrations efforts to revive the coal power industry in addition to rolling out nuclear. Nuclear will take much longer to get rolling so coal plants are seen as a stop gap at least until nuclear goes on line. This is all being fueled by the huge demand that the AI facilities that are being built now will require. This is a bit biased so take it for what it's worth: https://earthjustice.org/feature/coal-ash-states/indiana It speaks to the toxins in fly ash. State epa divisions are going nuts with power plants right now over fly ash and cleanup. I bring this up only in that if it is as toxic as stated then why is it being used as a building material? Particularly in the ground and is it just a matter of time before they outlaw it all together.
Got it home in one piece this evening and couldn't wait... had to give it a go in the rock hard clay. I love the results!!!
It's Christmas!!! More pics to follow. Had a $1/4 million in materials delivered over the last three days.
Keep your water pipe gaskets clean good bevels when u have to cut pipe and a file for any little nicks so u don’t end up with any leaks. Enjoy the development work.
L LOL - I understand that feeling. Had $150K worth of 48" corrugated HDPE delivered in 2 days and all I could think of is - I am in the wrong business!
Good job on the ripping can go deeper of course, but don't do it like you would see on the gold mining shows where they use the bar as a bulldozer and shove everything like the main support into the rocks and dirt, I've seen too many know nothings doing that, those parts are NOT GROUND ENGAGING TOOLS, and messes them up as well. I also can't stand welding the weeny hitches to the bar either, there are much better ways to add a hitch and zero welding involved. Sorry its just me, I like concours d’elegance restorations, and hate the time and effort to fix messes. Yeah I could run a brand new dozer and the only paint that would be missing is on the GET and the UC maybe belly pans if clearing. How many would even bother?
Yeah, it's easier on the dozer too to not rip full depth. No sense in trying to go so deep the dozer is spinning the tracks. It looks to work pretty good the way you did it. You can always rip it a second time after the loosened dirt is pushed off or rip it a second time at 90 deg's. Might want to tighten the track(s) a little bit. Is the pipe you got delivered secure so no one could potentially steal some of it? I've seen it several times where supplies for a job are just sitting there where anybody driving by could help themselves or come back when it's dark to take some.
I spent this morning ripping across the area that will be the base of the pond. I have a long way down to go (18' on the north side). I had the IH412 coming behind me and I have never seen it's bowl fill up so fast. The combination is working beautifully. I am going to look into either a camera on the back or some kind of feed back as to the position of the ripper.... depth... up or down. I took it to the barn to do maintenance on it this afternoon not realizing I had the rippers down... DOH!!!! Good thing it was dirt all the way. We have a 40x40 pole barn on the premises (was already here when we bought the property) and we have secured it. I put up pallet racking in it and we have all the expensive stuff stored on pallets inside... including the fire hydrants. Those suckers are pricey!!! We have the round pipe sitting out. It is all 20' lengths and we have it stacked three high (36" round). If someone begins messing with it they will surely wish they hadn't. It is hidden from any road way to boot. The property is outside the city limits so few actually know the development is going on as again... it itself is hidden from view from the roads. Still... I feel compelled to get some cameras set up there with the feeds going to my desk at home.
Greetings guys. A bit of a hiatus here... thought I should make an entry with our progress. The addition of the HD16 and it's rippers are making a tremendous difference on the pond. I will have pics this evening. The weather is beginning to shift into full fall... which lasts about 3 days in these parts before winter actually commands the day. I have a couple concerns at the moment. The base of the pond currently still has to go down another 5 feet and already we are holding water. Bought a nice 3" portable trash pump and will be working on evacuation of that water, provided by recent rains. Afraid I will have to have an excavator sooner than later to finish digging out the base. There is a John Deere 230LC literally sitting just 2 blocks from the property that is up for sale. Comes with three buckets. The owner admits that the undercarriage will need serious work soon but for the time being he has pulled a plate from the tracks to tighten them up. Hasn't given a price yet but indicates it will be one with the understanding that it will need some major work down the road soon. Will prod him for that today. If the price is right I will get the counties finest to escort the unit across the street (highway) saving me on transport costs. Will have more to speak to this evening.
Sounds like a plan.
Just a quick video of the ripper in action on the HD16. These 1 minute videos are taking simultaneously with two separate cameras. Should be able to click on the links they will play. These cameras have no sound but outside of that I am really impressed with them. They have a very strong magnetic base, are solar powered, have HD very clear video as you will see and both feed into a 7" monitor I mounted within arms reach on the underside of the canopy. hd16-rear-cam-162940.mp4 LCEnt Dropbox - a safe home for all your data dropbox.lcent.com hd16-rake-cam.mp4 LCEnt Dropbox - a safe home for all your data dropbox.lcent.com
What are the cameras? That a live feed to your monitor?
Purchased the cameras from here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DRYCDW4R?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 Yes... that is the live feed to the monitor. The monitor itself recorded both feeds independently to an micro sdio memory card. I am so tickled with the results I am buying another set for the scraper. It's hard to tell where the pan is sitting and with these cameras it will make it easy. Also hard to tell when the bowl is full.
So we lost the pan to our IH412 scraper today off the track. Look here for the details.... HeavyEquipmentForums
Just an FYI, never do a turn with the rippers in the ground. And always low gear.
I have made it a point not to do so. I've done minor correction as I get pulled off the horizon mark but I could ill afford to break off a tine by having made a substantial turn with them in the ground. I have always been using 1st gear. Don't want to push it any more than I have to and it's really doing well in 1st.
Looks fanfrigging tastic!
Looks like its doing a fine job. Both the ripper cylinders need to be rebuilt.... as you know ... pay some now or a whole lot more later.
I noticed that too from the video however they do not leak. Will wipe them clean today and see if that continues. If so I'll order seals in and get it taken care of.
Nomenclature, Rippers have shanks, not tines. LOL. I never correct when it gets pulled, either let it do its thing or pick them up stop and recorrect back up if needed then re engage. Matter of fact when ripping I don't think I even touch the steer controls, its been a few years since operating so memory not clear, like probably 15 or so years now not sure. Dozing is not always a steady state deal its lots and lots of back and forth, stop and go etc. Yeah a long dirt push or full blade of clearing debris move is done but that is about the only steady state deal.
Shanks are what they have in prison... no? Don't shank me bro! lmao I am finding that the larger the dozer... the more difficult it is to control the blade. It's a bit frustrating when that HD16 blade just wants to plunge into the ground and there is no fine adjust on the lever. It also doesn't help that the lever is nearly out of arms reach on it. I like the D6 so much better that way. I will say that I am really loving the decelerator. Have never used one before and I am getting quite used to it. I haven't figured out the trick to eliminating the wash board affect once it has manifested itself. I'd like to think it is just sitting the blade on the ground but not on the HD16. As stated... it just wants to plunge into the soil.
Maybe get some rod and bend it in such a way to get the blade control into a more comfortable position? Yeah its those simple things that make some cats better. Though I hate that shoulder buster side pull lever mounted to the fuel tank on the older dozers.
At the moment I have found that method (as it is on my D6) more comfortable than the nearly out of reach one at the dash on the HD16.
What a day it has been. For those following at home... I have created a new thread under scrapers regarding the breakage that occurred on the IH-412. In the mean time... I made a counter offer to their counter offer to my original offer on the IH-E200 and they accepted it at noon today. Problem was... I had hoped they would last evening and made arrangements for delivery today which I had to cancel early this morning. Turns out when I called them at 1pm to reschedule... they were still able to get it done today. Here is my new addition on site as of 3:30pm today. Intended to double my clay moving throughput... it is now saving the day to move clay at all at the moment until I can overcome the issues of the IH-412. Tomorrow... we move clay again.
Never done anything like what your taking on but, all I'm seeing is low end equipment in the hopes to save some funds. So far, the low end equipment isn't getting it done on the low
To each there own. I've watched every development around here with newer modern equipment have to have additional pieces of each equipment on site just to satisfy the failure of any of those being used. Tell me which is more cost effective.
Possibly those other developments have included a significant penalty per day after certain date for completion. I'm not going to comment on which is more cost effective but if you put yourself in there shoes you might have a little different perspective.
I have no doubt of that. I've stated from the beginning this is not a conventional development... far from it. I know very well I am working against all odds. Including some in these forums that haven't been able to differentiate between conventional and what it is we are attempting here. If I listened to some here I should give up and walk away as I have no business being here in the first place. To that I would say those that feel that way have lost their passions in life and certainly that of rooting for the underdog. I'm not purchasing this equipment to 'save' some funds. I'm purchasing it because it's what I can afford.... and... I will make it work. There is a reason the title of this thread is what it is. Our funds are tied up in govt. bureaucracy and are partially released on the completion of milestones... meaning... I have very limited funds to work with to get to each release. This project is a huge gamble for myself and my partner... However... with persistence, ingenuity, and thinking outside the box it's a risk we have been willing to take and quite frankly... are in too far to turn back... and... after nearly 3 years into this... we have overcome huge obstacles in the process and will continue to do so. Every entrepreneur here I have no doubt understands that side of it and has experienced it on some scale. We've just decided to take a much bigger bite in the process than most do or did in their beginnings. For those that are not entrepreneurs, what you are seeing here in this thread is an example of what every new entrepreneurs goes through to get to where they are. It's a climb and struggle... unless... you are fortunate enough to have been born with a silver spoon... and for us... it's a struggle worth pursuing.
Some of us refuse to give up on life and simply tread water. It’s much more exciting to try and swim to the other side and it feels so much better.
Well I think we can all differentiate between conventional site work like some of us do and what you are attempting. However this is a discussion forum so your going to get, well a lot of discussion. Some will be complimentary and others not so much. It's just how it goes. We run "modern" equipment for some outfits with our prime machines ranging from 2019-2024 models. Uptime is greatly increased running the newer iron over the older models in my experience. Our older iron ranging from 2004 - 2011 are spare machines for the most part. If we ran those hard everyday we would be working on them every other day. We get paid to move dirt and lay pipe not pull wrenches on broken down iron. Just different business models.
Given this is our first rodeo I would hardly call what we have a business model. We are learning as we go and affording it as we can. Given the opportunity to it again in the 2nd go around... you can bet we will take what we have learned... and made.... and make a better go of it.
That is where the Cats shine, that is when the side pull fuel tank mounted mess was no longer. Yeah very stupid to mount it on the dash. Engineering? Did anyone ever test it before selling them in those days? This is why I say all equipment manufactures need to ask for operator help when designing things like dozers. Too much monkey see monkey do in all of manufacturing these days. It is so strange that in the 60's all machines had such huge lever throw to make it function, almost zero thought process involved in design then.
Maybe I missed it but I'm curious what you are using to compact your fill areas? I hope you are at least pulling a sheepsfoot or padfoot compactor?
Yeah compaction is often overlooked these days, especially by smaller contractors, home builders, etc. To them one pass over a few feet of fill with a CTL is compaction. They look at me like I'm crazy when I'm pulling the sheepsfoot roller lap after lap around a building pad, new road, pond dam, etc. I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but that scraper the OP has would be plenty good for compaction.
Are you planning on making money on the project? If so that is a business model - good, bad or indifferent.
I wouldn't entirely agree with what you are stating in that given the opportunity to do it again we definitely would not follow the same process... as you might say... model, but I do understand it. This first go around is a means to an end. This first round is a learning process... not a business model. My partner and I stand to walk away with well into the high 6 figures each upon completion. We won't see that however till it starts getting released in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years. Our work (the civil infrastructure) itself should be done in two but we have allowed for three.
"You must always push the limits because if you never fail You can never succeed!" (No Fear) This is the best quote I've ever read!
That's the way I have lived my 67 years. Thank the lord I have been very fortunate to have been exposed to a wide variety of life over my years and I have embraced it all with zeal and a profound desire to learn. This development project is kind of a culmination of all of that. I know very well my behind probably shouldn't be taking such a project on but I have lived life with a philosophy of weighing the pros and cons and if I can survive or overcome the cons then it's worth pursuing. There are and will be many challenges on this project... but thus far... I have overcome each one that has presented itself. From learning and dealing with the civil aspects to extracting a D6 cat out of a creek who's track also came off and now this mishap with the scraper. It's one hurdle after another... the key for me... is overcoming them while keeping any down time to a bare minimum and learning from each one. I emphasize... time is the one thing I have on this project that most projects do not have.
Any updates on the project? Curious to see some pictures of the progress.
I too would like to see how you are progressing, I hope everything is going as planned.
Hey @Homer Dokes how’s it going with your project?
Uh Oh ! Last seen Feb 28 2026 Joe H
Likely spending too much time having to fix old junkers, to come here to chat.
chidog.... You aren't far off. In hindsight, do I wish I could have procured newer equipment?... Hell yes... Could I have?... Hell no. Having started with just a skid steer there is no way I could have procured, let alone afforded, the various forms of heavy equipment required to perform the tasks at hand. Further, anything I may have been able to procure would still be used and would require tlc in some fashion. For all the short comings, and there have been plenty, I have been able to overcome them all. Hi guys... Sorry for the hiatus. We are majorly behind on our project but predominantly because of weather... rain specifically. I have a lot of questions with regards to that plus a lot to contribute here regarding our progress and issues. I hope to get back to this thread, and others, in the next week or two.
Rain has killed us down here as well.
We just got pounded with rain in Alberta too with more expected this weekend. They figure it will be a record for the month of June.
I want all the rain we can get. It beats the alternative.
Somebody buy a camera for Homer so we can see his project.
I believe you could take all of our rain for the rest of the year and we'd be OK with what we've received so far. Even my farmer friends are ready for it to stop. In addition to their fields being inaccessible for a couple weeks, assuming we get no more rain, their irrigation ponds are full and overflowing.
X2. We are 3 weeks behind schedule on all our projects due to rain.
Same here. When it stops raining we're going to be scrambling to make up time on projects everywhere.
We're getting another dump of rain this weekend and everything is already saturated. I saw the biggest waste of money by a city today. On the bank on the side of the freeway with fairly tall grass was 3 large water trucks with plastic tanks running 3 sprinklers watered the unsightly grass. It made no sense at all with rain coming a few hours later.
We could use some more