I was thinking about buying an excavator for working around our farm. Is there some machines that I should stay away from? I had been looking at a Koehring 466 that was in the area, but the owner wants to keep it now. I don't want to spend a whole lot, so I'm thinking that an older machine like that Koehring are what I may have to get. Thanks for any advice.
Welcome to HEF sthomps! :drinkup
IF IT'S NOT A CAT ITS A DOG! no seriously at least you can find parts for them and find people that have worked on them before. I can't talk much though i have a Poclain( lets see u find parts for it!)
I would stick with the common brands - John Deere Hitachi and Cat you can find older models of all 3 of these brands easily and still get parts for them. If you found a 590 or 690 Deere or a old EX150 or EX200 sized machines I don't know Cat so I can't say what size. You get those old off brand machines from the 60s and 70s your taking a chance buying them. Brands like Drott,Bantam,P&H,Poclain,Warner Swaysey,Koehring,JSW. There are many other ones out there. The old UH Hitachi are okay there are quite afew of them still around or they are here.
I would not be afraid of a Koehring. I still run a couple of "off brand" Unit excavators (rarely on jobs, mostly truck loading in pits) and they have been good machines for me. One we have owned since new, and like anything else if they have been taken care of they are no more trublesome than a Cat, Hitachi, ect. As for parts most of these off brands use standard parts for example my Units have detroit engines and common hydralic componets. There are still sources for the uncommon parts for many of these less common brands, it just depends on how hard you have to look for them. You can get parts for a Cat or Hitachi easier, but they will cost quite a bit more in most cases. That said the Cat, Hitachi, Komatsu & others are very good machines, but I would not thow stones at a Koehring, Unit, or the other "off brands" - they were as good or some better in there day most even before Cat, Komatsu, or Hitachi were around. After all the dirt doesn't care what brand machine is moving it.
Thanks Thanks for the help everyone. The Koehring that I was looking at also had a Detroit in it. I was excited about buying that 466 when I first saw it. I just talked to the owner the other day. I guess he has another one in a pit that is the same, so he wants to keep it. Anyone looking for manuals for a 466 koehring let me know, I bought a set off of e-bay when I thought I had a chance to buy it.
those old "off brands"....as slow and obsolete as they are today, typically ran a detroit diesel, vickers or commercial shearing pump/valving, about every farm store sold cylinder kits for them....for their era, they were great machinery, and for the hobbyist today if you're slightly mechanically inclined....would be able to keep them up and running
The big problems with those old machines is the under carriage. We have a few of them old clunkers kicking around and once the undercarriage goes the machine is junk. Some of those old Koehrings used a crawler crane style undercarriage and they don't crawl worth a darn. I know where you can get one cheap. The old Hitachi UHs and Cat 235s are the most common for us out here for guys with acreage that want to clear with. The guys with more money will buy a EX-200. A old UH014 its about a 300 sized machine that belonged to a contractor in the area got 6500.00 dollars for it. The machine had a rebuilt engine in it but the rest of the machine was tired but worked. I used the machine a little to try it out. Definatly old but would work good digging in a pit.
I like newer machines, but there's something to be said about running "junk". For some reason, it seems a little appealing. Kinda like driving an older truck I guess, you could have a new one, but if it's getting the job done reasonably well you have the last laugh.
Where to Buy? Hay LT-9000. I was out in B.C a couple of years ago for my sister in-laws wedding. I took this photo at the house we stayed at in Golden. Its a UH-181. I would love to get a machine like you were discribing, but shipping across the country might drive the cost up. I live about an hours drive north of Detroit, MI. Anyone know of a cheaper machine closerto where I live? I've been looking on E-bay, but buying a machine from photo's is hard. I have bought cars on there, but they were a lot cheaper than even a cheap(Junk) excavator.
Photo didn't work Sorry. try this site. http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa93/1970mach01/
Try this and see if it helps. Posting Pictures
Keep searching you will find something. I would try find a machine with newer style controls. The older UH machine Hitachi's had yankem sticks which is probably not really something you want. Just have the cash ready so when you find the good deal you can go for it. Shipping a excavator from here to Ontario wouldn't be cost prohibbitive. I would search Manitoba or even Saskatchewan.
Pictures Thanks countryboy for the link. I'll try that the next time. I really didn't want the computer to get the best of me last night, so I resorted to putting a link on, so I could sleep.
Hey, I am located about 2 1/2 hours north of Detroit, but on the Michigan side. I have a UH083 Hitachi, and a 235 Cat, but I am not willing to part with either of them yet. I might be able to be talked out of one of the Units though, if you are interested.
Really Ror76, how far are you from Port Huron? I'm a 30min drive from there, only in Ontario. The big question is(if you decide to sell), is how much you would be looking to get for one of your machines? Thanks for the info.
Yankem Sticks LT-9000 was saying that the older UH machine Hitachi's had yankem sticks. I was just wondering what are Yankem Sticks?
For your application I would look for the old cat 2 series excavators like some one mentioned before.Cat parts are readily available. These machines are heavy and strong and have no electronics to worry about. So they can be fixed old school with out computer diagnostics. If You start messing around with old foreign machines and everyone knows how costly parts can be.:usa
what year? Ongrademike: You said to stay with the older 2 series cats, around what year did they start using electronics on most machines? When they started using electronics did they also raise the line pressure, or did that happen at different times?
Yankem Sticks Yakem Sticks is referring to older excavators that did not have pilot control or, if they did have pilot control they had long levers that you had to use for the Hydr. functions. Not bad if you are not going to put 12 hours a day in the machine, 0r are young and strong.
sthomps, the cat series I am referring to for example is 225,235 excavators.I know the early ones from the late 70's to early 80's did not have electronic engine and hydraulic controls.235's started with A series and i think it ended with D series but i am not sure about 225'S. The 300 series excavators is when Japanese technology came into play with electronics galore and lighter structure to them so they could compete with the competition. My company still has a few 235's around and the boss loves them for easy to trouble shoot and repair nature about them.They are slow when compared to todays standards but they always treated him well and made ALOT of money for him when they were in their prime..
Under another rock If you own it, eventually it will break. Parts stores/suppliers that are close should be an important decision maker. Machinerytrader.com is a good place to start shopping. Even if you don't find what you want or the price you like, it seems to open other doors. Ask sellers or dealers to point you in another direction.
Welcome to HEF mlepely! :drinkup
thanks mlepely. have looked on this site before. I may have to start talking to people that do move a lot of machines. Does anyone have sugguestions as to what I should look at first on a machine. I'm just thinking that there might be a few things that wear out before others. Warning signs if you will. For instance, I know that if I look at a ford pickup from the 70's,80 or 90 that the first place to look is the inside back wheel wells. If that spot isn't rotted out, than I know its been cared for. Thanks for any advice.
Sthomps, I think these links may help give you some places to start inspecting any used machines you may be interested in. Here's a link to a really good thread on inspecting used excavators, pay particular attention to what Wulf says in post #4 tons of good info. Myself, I like to surf around IronPlanet in my spare time, it's an equipment auction website, but what makes it a little different is they provide very detailed inspection reports. Full of good information. Take a look at a few machines, read the comments the inspector made, LOOK closely at the pictures. You'll start to see what to pay attention to. Also, they even give you some general tips on how to inspect a machine yourself. Here... http://www.ironplanet.com/buy/how2inspect_a_used.jsp?eq=Excavator Now I should say that (I know you already know this, just have to say it) that none of this is meant as a substitute for the opinion of an experienced Mechanic! I hope this will be helpful to you, if anything is inaccurate, someone please correct me! Just my 2 cents.
Buying a machine. By no means am I an expert at buying or a mechanic, but I will share my thoughts when I buy. Have a general idea of what you want. Machine size and application. I own a Hit EX150, not new but a fairly nice exc. I use a spreadsheet with columns, year, make, model, hours, price, condition, options. Now beat the bushes. Start at machinerytrader.com, Iron Planet, traders guides, ebay, classifieds. Fill in the columns noted previous. If you do use a spreadsheet like Excel you can easily determine average prices vs years, hours, etc. It can be a tedious process but it will help to find the best purchases. When you find something of interest and you are physically looking at a machine the general appearance is usually a benckmark. Straight panels, shoes, belly panels, fluid levels, log if available, possibly service dates on the filters, lubrication points. I think the inside of the cab tells a true story, if its a stie with trash and a build up of dirt its likely some service intervals were stretched or missed. Not always true but likely. Usually the best machines are from owner/operators. Other posts had good advice as well. Take your time, you'll find it.