So this truck failed its inspection a few years ago due to the frame starting to jack apart. The inspection shop.saod they could repair it so boss man said do it. Apparently they pried the frame apart a bit and dug all the stuff out then hammered it back down and put a bunch of weld in spots along the frame. Now the frame is cracking at spots they welded. Is there some proper procedure to fix the cracks so they stop coming back or is this something we will be battling for the rest of the trucks life.
Well truck frames are one of my specialties, at least when I was younger. Oh my-What model of truck is it and how far does the inner rail run? You will never stop the cracking because the inner rail cannot be stitch welded on the edge/or rail lip as they did. The only way to correct that properly is cut the frame at the best area of outside rail, install a new inner rail both sides all the way to the back. Then butt the new outer rail up to the cut/clamp to inner rail and weld both outer rails at seam. Using a total vertical cut and V-ing the cut 3/8" both sides preheating rail before welding. The proper steel grade would be a minimum of Grade 80-80,000 lb tensile or Grade 100. But with that said it's not a cheap job-Plus all new flange bolts and flange nuts, reusing frame bolts-well your just asking for it. You can't buy another truck for the cost of fixing it right.
Its a 1994 international 9200. The inner rail starts just behind the front steer axle. Its a pretty long truck. For its age the proper fix is sounding out of the question. If we cut the welds will that help? It there a specific way the cracks can be welded up that will work ok.
I work for a nearby town in Buildings & Grounds. My good friend is the chief mechanic for the Highway Dept. All of the double framed trucks there are doing the same thing. He's sending them out to be reframed with a heavy duty single rail at a cost of $25,000 US. He expects another 10 to 15 years from a truck with a $250,000 replacement cost. Double framed trucks just can't survive in an environment that uses salt for anti-icing. These are early 2000 IHs too.
Biggest problem is the pitting inside those rails/between the inner and outer. Once rust jacking starts it's not long and death sets in on the inside. You could cut the welds. Any cracks need to be found using a torch/it will show up then the end of each crack drilled to stop it from traveling, ground out then welded. But once a frame starts cracking it just never stops. A good rail for dump truck specification is 7/16 wall Grade 100. No need for a liner. You will have to look/inspect closely where the crossmembers and suspension is mounted for cracks developing around mounting/bolt holes. The area around a hole will erode faster on the inside of rail where the moisture/salt is trapped. Horizontal cracks are hard to see. I have seen horizontal cracks in frame rail up to 16" long starting at a suspension mounting hole/bore. When that happens it's game over.
in my opinion, on a truck that old its not worth putting a lot of money into. you may be better off to part it out and find a better truck
I guess it could depend somewhat on what shape the rest of the truck is in. That's a heavy spec. truck. The frames I've seen with rust jacking usually show a lot more rust.
Or remove the box and wet kit and install on another chassis. To replace those rails with 7/16 grade 100 would run around $6,000 and would be blanks. Only one place in the Northwest can form that long of rail {HW Metals, Portland, Or. They have two in tandem 30 ft press breaks that can form 60' of 1/2" rail. https://www.hwmetals.com/ The two 5/16 x 30' grade 80 rails below that I used building the frame for my B75 came from HW Metals. With shipping total cost was $2,600 but that was 1 1/2 years ago. And that was a damn good price for the steel and forming plus the shipping.
Saw the same damage on Concrete double frame trucks here. By the time you get that all cut out and repaired are better off with a lift the bed off and set on newer chassis unless intend to keep forever as will not ever recover expense. Going single rail would be a SERIOUS Mistake as flexing and twisting be lucky to retain half the cross members in short order, Is a purpose for dual frames where the idjits that stitched that inner to outer need to be removed from Mechanic Gene Pool.
Most of the late models use a single rail, Freightliner will spec with 7/16" and I have seen 1/2" in PacCar. Every truck we have has 7/16" rail specified for trucks using a drop axle. We haven't had any crossmember issues. Our average tractor weighs 18,000 plus. All of the WA Dot dump trucks come with 7/16" rail from Freightliner. And by the time a liner is factory installed and the added weight of the liner, may as well use one 7/16" it ends up lighter in the end. And after a 1,000,000 miles the trucks don't look like a sway-backed farm critter. Horses, cows, pigs, mules and such.
Sounds like we will just have to keep an eye on it since it is definitely not worth putting a new frame under it. Just disappointing since this truck has 750,000km and has had lots of work lately. New head put on 2 years ago, new clutch and rebuilt transmission last year, this spring had the hubs changed over so no more spoke wheels, new pto pump two month ago. The start of its life all it did was haul crops and never saw winter until my boss bought it around 2011. It did not even have one dent in the box when he got it.
That's probably the best option-drive it into the ground-slowly.
The part that is really hard to swallow is that the inspection center failed it even tho the jacking was not very bad and this was there fix. Yet we have a plow truck that the frame is jacking so bad it gets long cracks down the frame and we weld them up and it keeps passing. We keep saying that truck wont pass and its time for scrap but every year it passes with only a few hundred bucks put into it.
Was not aware TS that single rails had become the norm, all too used to Midwest Lined Frames as the OP Truck.
Double frames are kinda rare up here too. Heavy single rails in most everything now.
As long as they are making money off some repair they will pass it. Had a farmer with two old grain trailers after a FHWA inspection {didn't want any major repair} The trailers were rotted out, sorry charley no can do. I won't sign the paper work and assume the liability.
IMO I would be going back to the shop who did that repair and advised it was proper and ask them along the lines of "how are you going to fix your fawk up?". Welding them together made the problem much worse, I don't know how anyone could think it would be a good idea. I always wondered why they never put some kind of rubber or something to seal off between the frames to keep water, debris, etc out? Had a old international years ago and every year had to weld the frame a bit as the double frame was doing the same thing, hard to complain about on a 25 year old truck though and beats dealing with the BS problems on a new truck. So happy my 92 is a single frame, has very little rust on it. I've learned to never trust what a shop says without verifying it. I took a brand new trailer in for inspection and they said that the spring hangers needed to be welded across the frame to pass. Of course I told them not to touch it or they just bought themselves a trailer, I think a trailer manufacturer who builds 1000's a year knows where to weld and where not to, took it somewhere else and they never even brought it up.
Thank you would be better of to cut all the welds between the two rails with a thin cut off wheel. A good pipe welder maybe able to make some repairs that will last. Frame inserts extra cross members and such may be required. From the pictures I did not thank it looked so bad until the rails were welded together.
Pictures of the cracks please.
My newer (1990) Top Kick has single rail. I hope it offers no problems. In VT it seems even when I consciously plan to park it in winter I end up driving it in winter. Double layer is just not a good system here. The State dumps liquid salt every night if there is the remote chance of a single snowflake. Then they spend all day dumping rock salt on the roads. I notice vehicles from more populous places don't rust much. I'm guessing more traffic beats the salt off the road sooner.
I passed on a late 80's Straight Clean no rust cab A-car dump truck some time back(Old mixer Chassis) that was going to need rails before could make road legal. Will have to keep this in mind next round. Oddly a buddy of mine called within a hour of these posts last night, has LTL Ford wants to stretch the WB on, does NOT want to sew extensions on the rails with fish plates, wants to fully replace them as is a 90's truck and does have corrosion issues. Working on that currently.
Around 2000 manufactures started using single heavy gauge rail. Because trucks were being spec'ed with drop axles installed at the factory.
My 86 Kenworth is suffering some jacking at the back end to. I only put about 1100 k on its last 6mo. inspection ,it passed again but i know the day of re-conning is coming. No cracking yet .
Its a shame youve joined the food industry Truckshop my Kenworth needs you haha.
We have a company in VT, I bet you have where you are. Cut your frame, send the corroded mess to them. They will reproduce your frame. Reinstall takes two or four welds. Everything else is bolted. My C65 is ten years from needing it. That is where the notion of putting a low mileage fire truck chassis with a diesel under the dump body began to sound good. Still not there, but there is a very dim light at the end of the tunnel. It seemed easier. If I had a truck I loved, I'd fix the frame. $3000 spent on frame is cheap compared to refitting a truck. I know that.
Your taking about Adams I believe.
The food industry stay's busy in hard times while everything else can hit the skids. But for the most part a truck is a truck-open the hood in the morning and dump a sack full of money under there and drive for that day, next morning another sack of money and start the process over again. I started working OTR trucks years ago and everything in-between. What model of KW ? what rail dimension/ I have two new 3/8" rails 7' long for KW frame, $275.00 for both.
Its a W900. I know exactly what your saying about dumping money into them. Im not sure at this point if im up the task of repairing the old truck,i have too many crane repair projects on the go now. Not being a truck mechanic that mass of old cloth coverd hoses and rusty bolts scares the crap out of me. This is what it does most of its life ,sits on site holding things for us. I apreciate your offer on the rails,if we wernt in this covid mess id go for drive and pick them up off you.
Cut the bolts and install brass and plastic/nylon air lines. The air line isn't expensive but the brass dot fittings can cost depending on where you buy them. Actually that truck above is a fairly easy job.
Your baiting me into another project ! Its a good old truck ,but theres also a brakesaver lurking inside it waiting for a reseal job , probably a tranny rebuild from my painful shifting practicing when i got it .
I am talking about Adams
Problem with frame welds, are harder than the frame steel, tend to be brittle, frames WILL Flex and the brittle will not. Can take a Gas Axe Rose bud anneal the weld when completed out onto rail itself but that also weakens the rail treatment. Catch 22.
Thanks for the pics. Cracks look numerous and some already worked on. Would thank cutting the welds between the two rails would be best ( no torch ). I have seen some certified pipe welder hands install some patch plates as in one the drive shaft came out of. Did not give it a week but it ran for years. If you can find someone like that maybe able to get by a while. If it is cracked at the same place on both sides maybe add a cross member there. You know the fix is as Truck Shop outlined.
One other way to buy some time. Have the cracks repaired clean the outside of frame off grind it smooth. Have two pieces formed with a 90* lip on one side and lay that over the top of existing rail, drill it up and bolt the hell out of it. International used that trick at the factory to raise GVW. It will keep her going for a while yet. It will need a radius using a 3/4 die in the press break to match the existing rail. It should cover outside of rail top to bottom.
If you weld the frame use a suitable electrode for the type of steel. I would think something like 8018-C3 which has 1% nickel for extra toughness. This is a common rod for repairing crane booms. A truck or frame shop may be able to help with what electrodes to use. Probably requires some preheat as well.
Stirred a old memory of the 4070Bs and 4370's that had the bolted frame reinforcements late 70s early 80s before the 9670s came out.
I would love to see a sketch or picture of that one as I do not quite understand.
Wish was a late 80s 4070B close to take a pic of
Worked on a fleet of those but don't recall that. After rereading TS's post I recall seeing some fertilizer spreader trucks like that. Assumed the company that made the spreader boxes put them on but maybe they were factory.
Likely Factory, as noted for GVW rise. Odd how adding weight to these baby whales raised their weight capacity.
It was real common on International S1954 models late 70's & 80's, it was factory riveted.