Would you get a John Deere 317 57hp 1750 roc or a case 420 series 3 69hp 1850roc. Price is close and im just wondering if the performance would be close too. The case is tier 3 engine and the deere is tier 2, but im not sure what that really means.
I would demo each machine and see what you think. The series 3 machines are new this Spring. I have yet to run one myself in the dirt. The 420 can be had with pilots if you so chose, the CASE Series 3 cab is pressurized and very nice. I would schedule a demo of each machine and tell us what you come up with.
I agree to test them both but when it comes to wheel machines I am partial toward Case. They are strong and reliable and have great dealer support.
Keep in mind also that the Deere is vertical lift and the Case is radial. While the Case will appear to have more lift capacity (1850 vs. 1750), in certain spots (truck bed height, for instance), the Deere may actually have incrementally more lift capacity. As Bigben mentioned, dealer support should also play a strong role in your decision.
Yeah as long as it is being operated more than being wrenched on! Aren't both machines pretty much Japanese made? seems the reliability is ther in that case.
I'll go along with the value of dealer support. Around my area, Deere has been great with parts availability and service. I've run them all and settled in with Deere. My lasting impression of the smaller Cases I've used is that I had a hard time cutting. I didn't seem to have enough weight on the front to be able to grade effectively. I also appreciate the bucket power advantage of the Deere. Seem to be able to fill better out of stock piles. The Case has a good reputation for durability/long life, but I feel the Deere is a more refined, easier to maintain, and more productive machine. Ideally, I'd try to demo them both on the same job, then you'll really notice the differences when you're able to get out of one and jump right into the other doing the same thing. Also, Deere is built in Dubuque, Ia, USA, not sure about Case's origin.
CASE skid steers are built in Witchita, Ks.
Which is awesome- I was disappointed when there mini's came out as re-badged kobelcos (?) That and the CX 36 I demo'd was weak. The B was much improved but by then I went TK
I got the 317 deere. They gave me $11500 trade in on my piece of junk 853, and case was only gonna give me $9000. The difference was $18750 , and for the 420 case in a 2 speed , the diff would have been $26000. The deere has AC, too. Got it home and works awesome. Seems to have a ton of pushing power.
As did I, I demoed a 36 when they first came out. I also that it was weak. I was impressed with the B series which is much improved. I too had purchased a TK by that time. After having the side to side boom swing after the first one (TB53FR), I could not get away from it (purchased a TB153FR last Spring). I like running the Kobelco mini, but for what I do with a mini the TK is better suited.
I would go with the teir 3 machine when all the smog laws take affect you would be kicking yourself for not goin that way if you are planning on keeping your machine for a long while
Did you demo each machine or was it strictly a money issue?
It was a money issue, but also the local dealer has a really good reputation for great customer service. Lots of 20- 25 year employees says a lot about a company, at least up here in alberta. Why would I be kicking myself for not getting the tier 3 engine?
Unless you're in California, I think the emissions rating is essentially a non-issue, unless you just want to have that warm and fuzzy "I'm saving the world" feeling. If the automotive industry diesels are any indication, it seems like the end result of clean exhaust has been lower economy. Burn more fuel, but get cleaner smoke? Is anything really gained? From what I've been seeing and hearing, meeting these tiers is not at all easy and there have been a lot of issues with these new engines each company is developing as a result of meeting requirements as we've gone through the various tiers.
The 2010 emissions requirements are going to be tougher yet, some manufacturers are designing the engines to use a urea additive to meet them. At that point, the engines will be exhausting air that's cleaner than the air it sucked in in some respects. I have to wonder if the people who make these law requirements have any idea of what is required to meet them? Urea is a very corrosive product, will it harm the exhaust system? I by no means want to breath dirty air, but I think there comes a time where the benefits gained by these stringent requirements have to be weighed against the cost in both money and performance sacrifice in order to get there. Diesel engines have done the heaviest work since the 30s, but from what I can see at a point coming very soon, the will be legislated out of existance, either by not meeting the exhaust requirements or becoming too expensive to do so. I agree with you MXZ, it just seems to go against common sence to believe that in order to achieve cleaner emissions, we must burn more fuel to do it.
If that type of legislation is on the horizon, it speaks volumes of the sad state of our country. In the middle of a economic downturn where high fuel costs are at the forefront, it makes little sense to me that we are pursuing hybrid technology and ethanol to shoot for goals of 30 to 40 mpg tops when there are cars like the Jetta TDI out there that have been getting 50 to 60 mpg on #2 for years ( until they couldn't meet the ridiculous emissions for 07). Go to Europe where they have been paying double or more what we have for fuel for decades and what do they drive? Diesels by and large because they are just plain and simple more efficient and better performing. Ford makes a Festiva diesel for the non-US market that gets something like 76 mpg, but we can't have it. Am I missing something? Sorry for the tangent, but I'm a big believer in diesel. My Duramax is close to 500hp and still gets me 21 on the freeway with no black smoke.
This is the truth. Its a bad deal and I wish it could be fought. I am for common sense restrictions, we passed that in Tier 2.