i have been doing a lot of rip rap shorline repair with rubber track asv on steep slopes.i was wondering what you guys think is the best system for steep slopes,i have to be really careful when i turn to get out or i will slip the track of,it sucks getting the track hoe down to get the track back on.so what do you guys think bobcat takeuchi deere, i know its not asv maybe even the new cat sysem????? thanks earthscratcher
What model are you running? I haven't had trouble with my RC50 and I can run on hillsides as steep as my bravery holds out.
4810 asv 277 cat
Hard to say, not knowing the conditions or what the job entails but generally it is advised not to turn on a slope. Bad things happen on slopes. Perhaps you can run the skid steer straight up and down the slope and use the excavator to finish the work?
ASV Track system gets that award. Never had a problem with my CAT 277B or the 287B.
I hate to tell you this, but the CAT 277B that you've never had a problem with is the exact same undercarriage that he has on his 4810- exact same amount of bogies wheels, same suspension system and the same length track. As a matter of fact, ASV designed the undercarriages for your 277B and the 287B. the only difference is the drive motors system and the fact that the 277B was tensioned by adjusting the top idler and the 4810 wasn't. I had a long discussion with the ASV rep a couple years ago. That undercarriage was prone to derailment because of it's track length- I think 220" and the newer machines all have shorter tracks --your 287 and the RC100 use a 200" track. The rep told me that the front idlers would collect material between them and the track when operators would turn sideways either on the hill or mostly as they crossed the transition at the bottom of the hill and the material would push the track toward the inside of the undercarriage and up against the frame. the extra track length on top of the undercarriage between the front idler and the sprocket meant that it was easier to stretch the track when material was between the track and idler. The length of track on the ground doesn't matter because the track is pinned to the ground by the weight of the machine. I hope that makes sense. The best thing to do is operate up and down when possible and definitely at a 90 degree angle to the slope as you go over the transition from flat ground onto the hill or from the hill to flat ground. Sorry for the long winded post.
at 220 inches its no wonder that this is the most expensive track to replace,also the best ride though, since the track is longer. i have pretty much gone to straight up and straight down with the load other then the trees i am going around everthing is working fine. when the track does slip its under the conditions you stated dig. i am leaning towards the shorter track version units-shorter means less money to replace-less likely to slip of-only downside not near the smooth ride more like a dozer. i am leaning towards gehl,mustang,takeauchi
And and I say again, I have never had a problem with the ASV system on my CAT machines. We have had a few track problems the new system.
got a jd 332 and love it . put 1700 hours on factory tracks and just replaced them. never had a problem with throwing a track untill the tracks were completly worn and the wires in the track were sticking out and broken. pickup a bucket of dirt and i can clime a mountan.
Excellent lifting machines. You're doubling the life guys up here in Wisconsin are getting on the their tracks and you must operate correctly on hill sides as well. I've spoken to a few Deere owners who haven't been as lucky with keeping tracks on.
We've had a lot of experience on extreme conditions with tracked skid steer machines. The one that seems to stay on the best is the CAT CTL's. You really have to work hard to knock one of these tracks off....but the undercarriage components and the track are garbage. I've gone round and round with CAT on their logic using plastic components on an undercarriage. They keep saying it makes the ride nicer. I keep reminding them that not all skid steer owners are using them on golf courses. CAT MTL's are a complete joke on slopes and rough conditions.....they just will not stay on if they take a shot to the side. I've had the same experience with the John Deere. We are leasing a CAT with a VTL track by Logren (not sure on the spelling). It definitely stays on better than the MTL, not sure on the longevity of the track. I keep telling everyone we have a CAT skid steers with Harley Davidson tracks. I don't believe any of the manufacturers test them in an extreme enough conditions. I would be happy to help them out with this.
With both ASV undercarriages on my two CAT machines, I never had a problem getting a track off! I put these machines throught a lot of extreme use! I traded the 287B for the new 289C because of the undercarrige extreme overhaul costs of the ASV. The 287B had very uneven track stretch. I started turning one way all the time, in a effort the balance the stretch. The 289C I have, has 400 hrs on it and the stretch is about the same. The adjustments measure 1/8 apart and after the first 100 hrs., it appears that the stretch is minimal and it is my quest they will go about 2000 hrs. The 289C had a single idler on the rear on delivery and we had 3 tracks come off in the first 50 hrs. The Dual idler is much better, however running over a stump on the very edge of the 18 inch track can twist the track enought to get a track off! Wider rollers?? One of my old buds bought a 332C Deere and they had never a track off, however they are using the machine in custom home building. We use the CAT 289 in a mulching application and it has done a great job. We just put on the improved debris kit, available throught CAT and it does a great job keep the inside of the machine clean.. I was a Mustang CAT in Houston last week and they were putting a new undercarriage under a 277B with about 1200 hrs on it. $16,000 and that did not include the tracks. The machine was used by a concrete contractor, enought said! Well those ASV costs are not going down, that for sure! One operator in the Houston area put 2000 hrs. on a ASV RC100 in a mulching application and had to replace both tracks, but continued to run the undercarriage. He pressure wash the machine any time in was in the elements!
that 289c cat is one nice machine,i was wondering how the new cat undercarriage is working out. out of all the track loaders they seem to have all the bells and whistles one thing everybody likes about them is the throttle control,you can idle down or up when need be,that saves fuel in the long haul.
One great machine!:usa
Yeah, tell me about those costs....I have a 297C and at 1200 hours it has gone through 2 sets of tracks and the whole undercarriage, bogey wheels and idlers are shot. I don't think CAT did enough research when they jumped into building their own tracks. The CTL's ride great and stay on, but the upkeep is just a killer. The MTL's which solved the problems they were having with upkeep aren't staying on. I owned a 279C for about a month with double idlers on and in our conditions, just couldn't keep the tracks on. We were on the average, putting the track back on once a day. That was last fall. This spring, we were on a fuels reduction project in the southwest with CTL's....the CAT rep from San Diego came out and looked at what the terrain was doing to the track system. Of course, he tried to sell CAT's solution being the MTL's. When I expressed the problems with them coming off.... and I quote "CAT is now recommending that the single idlers are better holding tracks on". I spent over a $1000 on my 279C to put double idlers on as that was their solution last fall. To make a long story short, they sent out a 299C and let me demo it. The local service rep and mechanics were absolutely baffled by how easy the tracks came off. They sent a service truck out to lift the skid steer up and put the tracks back on. Dr W, I think you are onto something with the wider rollers and the track width. The local and regional reps have said CAT is coming out with a narrower track for the MTL's and I'm not sure why they couldn't see from the VTL system that a triple roller on the bottom would be much better. There seems to be a lot of chatter about CAT coming out with something soon... we'll see.
We really like the machine and I believe CAT will get it right! I believe in CAT and know they want this class of equipment as reliable as the big ones! As my partner and I have discussed, as good as the rest of the machine is, this track thing can really mess up your day! I believe a 18 inch track is the correct width for the weight of the machine and installing a narrow track is not the solution! Make sure you express your thoughts to CAT, they are listening.. I grew up on a 500 acre ranch in California when I was 13 years old. Most all the equipment, CAT, Massey, International, Oliver was all in poor shape! Broken down equipment is just misery! When a person buys new, one expects it to run day in and out with just normal maintainence. Most people on the site knows that I default to CAT. I would only own CAT or Deere because, they are solid companys that will stand behind there products! A final thought. My Grandfather was a problem solver for the U.S. goverment during WW2. He worked on a tank proving ground at Fort Chaffy. When it comes to track machines, whether you are fighting a war or just trying to make a living, tracks problem are unacceptable!:usa
I don't want to put your nose out of joint but there is the operator factor to put into the equation. Perhaps you do some heavy duty work that puts these machines to the test but if they they really are as crappy as you make out there would be a major complaint session about these machines.
Go steel! Stuff the rubber bands, go steel! Here's a Takeuchi 150 I photographed at the recent Civil Engineering Expo in Australia. It was a custom build model with HiFlo and steel tracks. Man it looked tough! If you are mainly working off road this may be the way to go. It may be rough riding but it should last like a dozer and be relatively cheap to maintain. If you wanted to go on asphalt etc bolt on rubber pads should do the trick. I think after an initial rush of enthusiasm, people are waking up to the fact that rubber tracked ctl/mtl machines can be very high cost to maintain. How mainly ctl/mtl owners are really charging out their machines at an appropriate rate to cover repairs and maintenance? I understand in the USA compared to Australia you have wetter conditions and tracks obviously have more float but man, compare the cost of changing four tyres compared to tracks, rollers, idlers and sprockets! Dave
You won't get my nose out of joint, only spending lots of money on undercarriages or putting tracks back on does that. That was exactly what the CAT people said until they came out and no the track failures are not operator. It may sound like I'm picking on CAT alot but the reality is that the rest of the machine I love and have no complaints. And believe me, I'm not the only one complaining and calling their CTL's a bunch of crap. CAT didn't jump into the MTL market just for fun, they were having a tremendous amount of complaint about the cost of upkeep on the CTL's. I believe what Dr W said, that CAT will eventually get it worked out but if you don't make a lot of noise they won't do anything. I gaurantee on their crawlers if the tracks were coming off and using plastic components, they would take a lot of razzing until they fixed the problem.
That just gave me shivers, I hate the ride on my Mustang MTL16(TK 130/230) with rubber tracks.
my 287B ran great on slopes really stuck to it. My cat rep told me the 277 are fine up and down but if you start going sideways on a slope they have had alot of problems throwing tracks