Hi im new to this board with a few questions.Our company curently has a 320cl excavator,we love the 320. We are in the market for a 100k lb excavator for mostly demo but also excavating.We like the 345cl but don't think its worth $100k more than the volvo 460 or the doosan dx480. What do you guys think is the cat worth the money? Does anyone have any experiance with the volvo or the new doosan? Thanks
show me pics of the 320 and then we'll talk.:thumbsup
What in the hell is a Doosan ? Myself Cat is over rated your buying a NAME otherwise they are no different than any other machine. I would look at Hitachi/Deere the Zaxis 450 would probably do well for what you want to do. They are used allot for road building they see some severe duty. Komatsu offers decent machine aswell they are really moving into the mining and pushing Caterpillar out. Volvo is probably one of the more expensive machines to repair just watch out for the sell you a machine cheaper then its " I Gots ya on Parts" which is a problem we encounter with Volvo Articulated trucks. I don't know what kind of demo work you do but a 45 ton machine is awfully big unless your doing large commercial buildings. I would consider a used 45 ton machine you can find them a little cheaper because there isn't much demand for them. Take us for instance in forestry industry new regulations prevent excavators that large for building road.
shovels i operate a 345cl long stick for sewer work,,i can honestly say this new series for the 345 was worth the wait,im working full pin 10 hour days in hard ground here im averaging about 220 liters a day,the shovel has a heavy lift mode,last thursday i placed down a 11 ton manhole 17 feet below,its very gentle yet very strong,the cab is very comfortable and more operator friendly,its a nice machine and to answer your question its worth the money,if you anymore questions let me know ,glad to help out
Ford LT-9000, Doosan is Daewoo. They were renamed Doosan Infrastructure earlier this year. Cat is not just about the name. I invite you to find one company that's offered such a technology as joysticks in graders, or decided to throw pilot controls on BHLs. Whether the price differential is justified is up for debate, but Cat is not just the name (in my view. I know our views differ, and respect that.). Also, Komatsu may be pushing out Cat in some areas for mining, but Cat mining's backlog is probably a big reason for that. Honestly, mxxsledder, I think the 345CL offers significantly better value for you as a contractor, but I'm not afraid to admit that the Volvo 460B is giving the Cat a run for its money. It's a strong performer, light on fuel, and is overall a good machine. I'd suggest you try both out.
It's not just the machine the matters also after the sale service, but IMO Deere and Link Belts are the best.
Sorry I do not currently have a digital camera but will be getting one soon. We will be doing some big demo jobs with the machine like old walmarts etc. The bigger the better for demo. I would love to see some pics of your 345,also if you don't mind me asking what did you pay for the 345. My dealer wants $397k for one. Thanks guys
Thanks for clearing that up so Doosan is Daewoo :thumbsup
Ford LT... I really dont know how you get the idea that the parts are more exspensive from volvo? Our parts have been all around the same price as other manufactures for the same parts. Maybe the trucks are more money but as for hoe's they dont very... give or take a few dollars. I think you may want to research that more... but we have not paid over priced parts if anything we have saved. As for cats... They do seem to burn alot of fuel. it may only be a few more litres.. but if u add that up over a year per day.. its a huge amount. one of the cat machines on our job, 2005 320LU burns a tank a fuel a day, and hes running 3/4 throttle. the 2004 EC210 that is on our job (volvo) will go 3 days with out needing a fuel. same as the 2004 EC160 that Im running. 3 days and still have some in the tank. they arnt big tanks either the 160 hold 260L and the 210 hold 325L Volvo does offer a 350L tank aswell. Cats are nice machines dont get me wrong, but like LT said... Its mostly a name your paying for and mainly because its and american company. We were in to our 210 for 195,000 after hyd thumb, hyd quick x, cage, and buckets. the 320 was going to be over 245,000 for the same stuff. and the 210 has 160HP as the 320 has 138HP yet the volvo burns less fuel.... Ive run both machines, and I have to say the volvo seems to be the better of the two. runs smoother, faster, has more power. Very efficient machines. I would say start looking at a volvo and pricing them out while your searching for a machine. Also if its on warrenty you shouldnt have to worry about paying for parts
I would say CAT, because of the great service plus very well built machines. Forget Doosan, they don't have good service + they're machines are NO WHERE near as good as a CAT or JD.
home builder in town has a 210 volvo and after trying it out i'm in love with it,it puts cat to shame in dealer service and fuel economy add the fact how nice it is to sit in for 12 hours a day is just the cherry on the top. parts wise theres no difference in cat vs. volvo in truth,the volvo is cheaper to maintain and buy parts for along with the added fuel savings as i stated above is a win win deal. also daewoo is a very nice machine i'd put the volvo and daewoo ahead of the cat any day.
What ive heard about the volvo fuel effiency is that it does burn less fuel but head to head with the cat it does not get as much done in a day,so it's preety much a wash. Is there any truth to this? And tiger why do you think the cat is a better value over volvo. Thanks
Definatley Check Out Deere Or Hitachi 450 Screw Cat They Are Good For Parts And Service But Depending Where U Are Deere Isnt Bad The New D Series Is Very Comfortable And Have Toalked To People Who Have Ran It And They Say It Has Lots Of Power!!
http://www.jonyang.com/english/products/crawler/JY210E/JY210E.htm anybody ever see, run one of these? wonder how they price out with the rest of the asian market machines.
heres a pic of my new toy thought youd like to see it..
but if you want a hitachi,,you say the bigger the better this could probably help out a little,,then of course you could always dig some basments ,,,two or three at the same time!!lol:thumbsup
you know that hitachi would be great for drain tile jobs in downtown montreal :yup
We have a 2005 Cat 320LU and a 2004 Volvo EC210, and the volvo does as much if not more then the Cat. Talk about dealer service.. My boss was running my machine after work one day and ended up putting a small dint in the left hand side service door. He felt really bad that he had put the first dint in to my machine so he called the dealer up right away and ordered a door, the dealer brought it down with in a week after finding one. The dealer is about 2 hours away from us and they didnt ship to us. the Manager of the dealership brought it down to us in his own truck. it turned out they had the wrong door. they had brought a cab door, ready to be bolted on, windows everything which would normaly be around 1800. well he then tells us that he wasnt even going to charge us for the door. he was going to give us the door. we were completely blown away. he went back tracked down the proper service door and its now on the machine free of charge. That sure made my boss happy. And they even bring you lunch and sometimes beer :bouncegri I wouldnt buy another machine other then volvo.
That big Hitachi would dig a whole neighbour hood of basements in a hour. Over here on this side of the creek Volvo is used quite abit for articulated trucks. I know a few contractors have have had to buy alot of parts for Volvo's and they are pricey. The reason why I always say Hitachi or Deere is they are proven the forestry contractors use and abuse the machines they seem to stand up. The old venerable EX300 and EX400s spend days digging blast rock and road building. They are not digging much dirt mainly rock that has been broken up with explosives. Another contractor in the area been in business for 30 years or more has run nothing but Deere excavators. I have meantioned it before but soon as Hitachi moved into market years ago with the old UH machines everybody started buying them it was good bye caterpillar. There are lots of old UH machines kicking around especially the real old ones with the big yank'em sticks. The next contender moving in is Komatsu they are giving contractor deals offering good dealer service now you see lots of Komatsu excavators on sites. The thing with Hitachi,Deere and Komatsu they will build you a machine to what you want. Cat has been a little spoiled over the years now they have more competition it really hurts when you got Komatsu moving into the mines where Cat's largest market is. Go try a Deere,Hitachi,Komatsu or Volvo before you buy a Cat you will probably see that the other brands are good or better.
MVFD, to be fair, it's not entirely accurate to put a tight tail-swing machine against a conventional machine. But I'm not arguing: right now, I don't have conclusive evidence that the 320C L outperforms its competition. If the increase in productivity holds true for the 320DL as it did for the 324D L, 325D L, and 330D L, we may have a better argument... and there's certainly no doubting that Volvo wants a piece of the equipment pie -- it's got a good line of machines and knows it.
I don't know about the bigger machines, but our C series 312 only burned about 3 gallons an hour at most running at 80% throttle. I could get at least 2 days of work done before fueling up. As Tigerator mentioned, the D series 20 ton machines haven't been released yet. Hold on to your hats, they look to be big contenders. I've seen 3 or 4 new D series 330's in the last week in a market that is mainly Deere and Hitachi.
How do you guys not run at full throttle? I crank my machines up full throttle, in the fastest work and power modes it has and i still wish it was a little faster.
X2 and Cats use more fuel than most, but there not hogs. I haven’t ever ran a hoe that wouldn't go at least 16 hrs. without fuel.
Depends on what I'm doing. If I'm loading trucks then I'll usually run at 100%, but using a cleanup bucket or grade beam I'll slow it down. I usually don't find the need to run anymore than 80% or 90% throttle, the machine doesn't really run much faster and out here we have really soft soil so we usually don't need the power to tear into it. Plus, with fuel prices the way they are I try to conserve wherever I can.
different strokes for different folks i guess, no matter what im doing i have it cranked all the way up. I'll either need the power or the speed. When doing stuff like digging around utilities i might not need the speed when takinga scoop right above a gas line, but as soon as i lift the bucket out of the trench i want to be swinging full speed. on the machines i run the difference between the fastest work mode and full throttle is quite noticeable.
I like to have the rpm up too I will run the machine at 95%. The old 690 Deere I ran it was so damn slow even at high the machine was like a turtle. The hydraulics must have been turned down or something. I'am used to faster machines higher the rpm its easier to feather the hydraulics.
It only took me one post to realize that Ford LT-9000 was Gravel Rat Cheers from the other site guys
Recent analysis of construction equipment distribution networks reported by John McGinty, managing director at Credit Suisse First Boston Corp, compared one of the key measures of business strength, market capitalization -- or the business' access to money. Average capital Cat dealers $4.1 Billion Deere $750 Million Komatsu $500 Million CNH $450 Million Volvo $400 Million Seems like Cat has a formidable distribution/support advantage. Just because Cat dealers have money to back up their business activities doesn't mean you can't find great Deere, Komatsu, Case and New Holland, and Volvo dealers. What it does mean is that if your excavator works in lots of locations around North America, your chances of getting decent service from a local Cat dealer anywhere you work are better. Not perfect, but better. Some measures of performance in CE Field Tests: Deere 350D - http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6329668.html?industryid=23400 Case CX330 - http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA471341.html?industryid=23400 Cat 330C (sorry, nothing on the D Series yet) - http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6295430.html?industryid=23400 Komatsu PC200LC-7 - http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6295211.html?industryid=23400 A little background on Doosan excavators and the company - http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6296288.html?text=doosan
And dont forget that volvo hasnt been around with equipment for to long... and now only recent they have got good. as far as im concerned volvo is doing pretty good to be up there with the big contenders.. and I wouldnt be suprized if they end up catching up to cat in the near future.
A story about a tub-grinder contractor who uses three 320CLs http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA469677.html?text=320cl
MVFD, Volvo has been in Europe for a very long time. Their excavators are now the old-Samsung machines, which they bought in the late 1990s. While their development has only recently begun to aim seriously at the US market, they are by no means "newcomers to the market."
Which is illustrative of one of the challenges in expanding any business--whatever you've done to build a good reputation doesn't mean a thing if nobody recognizes you as having a reputation. People will tend to prefer the "tried and true", and if nobody else you know has tried one, you may hesitate to be the first. Brand recognition carries some weight...
I don't think anyone will knock Cat from the top for a while.
couldn't agree more!!!! as with any hydralic machine, wheither it be a crane, excavator or dozer they were designed to be run at full throttle. with the computers nowdays you can choose modes that will adjust not only the engine rpms but match the hydralics to that rpm. operators don't have to learn how to control the hydralics anymore the computer does it for them. good or bad, don't know or care, i do know when i get done with the fine grade i want to get to the next task as soon as possible and that means full power! as for fuel savings, i think the fuel burn difference would be a minimal between full power and light modes because generally i am not working the machine as hard at 100% throttle and 60% hydralic power as i would be at 80% throttle and 100% hydralic power. however i still have the option of 100%/100% when needed without haveing to stop what i am doing, reach down and start punching buttons, turning dials or levers to get the power i need.
Yup, after i warm up my machine in the morning i get in, punch the fastest work mode, and crank the throttle up and dont touch it till the end of the day. with extra speed and power i get from the ~300 rpm jump, i would think that the extra fuel i use is more than made up for by the increased production.
And all that extra noise helps me hear the guy directing me down in the hole SO much better!!!!Ron G:thumbsup
Hand signals :thumbsup
I do agree, however in our new volvo's the modes are as follows: I F G H I - 2 I - 1 F - 3 F - 2 F - 1 G - 3 G - 2 G - 1 H - 1 That is the setting's positions. I - is clearly idle, it has to settings, the higher one (lower number being highest) is for warm up as most machines have. F - Fine work, Maximum Lifting capacity. G - General work, normal speed, H - High Speed, High power, Maximum production. How ever have it set on F while lifting pipe, cement lock blocks and even boulders works better set to F then it does on H. H is great if your loading trucks and what not but when you actully start using the settings the way they are designed for it will increase your productivity even more then just always running the machine cranked. I dont like effing the dog and I do hate when jobs linger on.. I like to be in and out quick as possible leaving the job with a happy customer. but I use to run H all the time. then I started reading the manual that came with the machine (typical guy, reading instructions after the fact) and started using the proper work modes and its really amazing how much they can improve things. after all they were designed for a reason, if not they wouldnt have those settings.
I think the different work modes for excavators is on its way out. I think it has been realized that they are not properly utilized by a lot of operators. The latest generation of machines will do it on their own. Sensing the hp and flow requirements with the machine deciding what is an appropriate mode.
ive ran many cats brand new everything from 330's to a pc300 a deere 330 clc and a brand spanking new volvo (330). In my opinion the deere would eat any of these alive, but i didnt find the deere being that comfortable, i do like the cats, where they dont seem that they have the power of a deere they make it up in the comfort the cabs are hugh. id have to say the pc300 is my next favorite, i thought it was a pretty well balanced machin though the cab being alittle small it still had a lot of power. now to the volvo the company i work for now has 3 of them, and i ve ran all of them with the newest one being the last one i ran, i aboustely hate them!!!!!!!! i think there junk, no power for one, uncomfortable, and they seem very very light in the rear end, all around they seem cheaply made. thats my opinion, but like everybody else has said it all about how they treat you after the purchase, with cat and deere being big names they ahve no reason to treat there customers like crap..
Trackhoe, If you liked the 330CLC, then you would absolutely love the 350DLC. Better performance plus everything else you asked for on the 330CLC. Pretty SWEET:thumbsup
Cat's D series is gunning to put the Deere D series to shame. Cat knows that Deere's C series pumps out the juice better than Cat's C series, I imagine the 330DL is a beast. Seen quite a few in the last couple months around here where Deere/Hitachi and Komatsu are front runners. The Deeres look like nice machines as well, but I hate the black boom and stick, trying copy Volvo I guess. Shoulda stuck with yellow.
farmboy -- out of curiosity, are you an operator or do you represent a dealer? Your knowledge of the industry is an interesting mix... (PS: that's a compliment -- not any type of offense taken!)
has anybody ran one of these 350s yet are they in the same weight class as a 345 or they a tad bit smaller. that would be a heck of thing to see those two dueling it out. the 330 clc i ran was brand new it was actually a pipe crew hoe and i got to run it on a staurday backfilling curb, it was a very nice machine to run the controls were unreal, just so smooth, i absoutley loved the thing but im a still CAT fan and will always be one
Gents, Thanks for the props! :waving Tiger, No offense taken. I guess you could say a little of both. I have (and still do) spend some time in the seat, but have also sold a piece or two along the way. What about you...am I correct to assume that from your "lawyer line" and some of your view points that you work with the Caterpillar organization in one form or another? At the end of the day I just enjoy jawing about iron and dirt moving. I think just about every machine out there is probably a good design these days. In my opinion so much of the decision to go with brand X over brand y is based on how the manufacturer and dealer support the machine after it is sold. There are some brands do a great job of this and others that don't. I think this is why you see more particular brands out there than others.
Trackhoe, It is the next size class smaller than the 345. The 350DLC is a 77K lb machine and the 345 is around 105K lbs.
farm boy wow you really know your stuff, i wont need to look anyhitgn up anymore ill just ask you:thumbsup I did read an article about them way back in the summer, and it was pretty neat article. in that case i wonder how it would macth up to a new 330 dl being 79,700 lbs. i wish i had the money to gout and buy both and try them both out just for the heck of it.
I'm actually not involved with Cat right now... I'm only a student who has interned for them in the past. I'd really like to go back, like NOW, but education comes first. If I may ask, do you work for a Deere dealer? I agree with your first statement! And specifically to this thread, I'd really like to see this test as well. I wish there were a "Road and Track" or "PC World" of the construction equipment industry, so we could see numbers before doing the demo. Tying up the two latter points of both posts, I agree. I really think machine performance is [generally] a wash between manufacturers; certainly in some situations performance alone isn't a good enough judge to disregard the "non-iron" considerations of parts support, price, and operator preference. But still, seeing actual tests is something we've all asked for before; the price of doing them (and logistics of publishing them fairly) is the dangerous part that may never come to fruition [publicly, anyhow... all manufacturers run such tests].
Has anyone seen the new Kobelco sk350 specs? Its very impressive. I will share specs. for those who are interested.They have units sitting in Calhoun waiting for delivery.
I'm interested... are these specs for a Tier III Kobelco 35-tonner?
The specs for the SK350 are impressive. It is a 35 tonne machine. http://www.kobelcoamerica.com/produ...04806303&line=000004786203&NavID=000004724403 The thing that would place doubt in my mind is the engine. Kobelco has went away from the Mitsu engine (a great engine in my opinion) and to a Hino engine. This in and of itself is enough, but this new engine is pretty small when compared to the other major players out there in the excavator world that are T-III (Cat, Deere, Komatsu). Volvo is still T-II with a huge 12L engine. I can't really say in this setting what I do now or who I work for, but I can tell you that I do not work for a Deere dealer. I do however deal with equipment almost every day.
First, your second point: that's fair. I'm relieved you're not a Deere dealer. Just don't tell me you work for Deere itself! :crying As far as the SK350 goes, well, I'm Chinese and saw Hinos in China. Given that I thought they were... kinda cheap (this was in 1999, mind you), I thought perhaps they were China's own product. Apparently, they're a subsidiary of Toyota -- which suggests to me that the engine might not be so bad. Two thoughts: where did you find the displacement of the engine? And if the engine really is smaller, doesn't that imply better fuel consumption?