I am not in the market for anything new... but Steve made some comments about his town's Internationals being down alot... Who is making more reliable, better equiped, more rugged trucks... I am not talking tractors here, just straight trucks that are run as dumps? Who is got the best engine choices? Drivetrain choices? Just a curious post to start a discussion. I don't know much of anything and don't have a opinion other than the State of Colorado run's almost all internationals and on my road trip back east I saw ALOT of Sterlings on the road. Is Mack still the truck it was? What would everyone spec as a motor? cat, detroit, cummins, international? What about 2007 emmissions? Who is going to get it right?
Are you talking about single axle or tandem axle trucks. Its pretty hard to beat a Kenworth T-800 tandem axle Cat or Cummins power something with 14L or 15L in the 450hp-475hp with a 18spd behind it 20,000lb front axle 46,000lb rear axle on Hendrickson ext leaf suspension and double locks in both drives. The Sterlings are like the old Louisville Fords like the L and LT 9000 they have decent spec's for a cheaper price. They are no Kenworth by anymeans but if you need a basic truck a Sterling is probably good enough. If you need a severe service truck then KW is it. Western Star is Kenworths biggest competition as Western Star offers alot of options for the Vocational market. International is about on par with Sterling a cheaper truck I probably wouldn't buy a International. Now that Mack has come out with redesigned trucks they are making them more user friendly. The Granites are better than the old R models they are not a bare bones basic cab with a milk crate for a seat anymore. The new emmision motors and the new partical filter and the other electronic crap on the engines maybe the end of the trucking industry. Everything is dealer repairs now.
Doesn't matter, I was just opening a can of worms and getting people to talk:bouncegri
I'm no expert, but you're almost buying the chassis you want. Whether you order a Kenworth, Peterbilt, Sterling, Mack, International, whatever, you can get just about the same selection of engines from Cat, Detroit, Cummins, no matter what brand of truck you buy. Then if you order an International, you can get an International engine, same with Mack in the fact that you can also order their engines as well. Fuller 13 speeds are extremely common around here, they seem to be bombproof for most guys that I've talked to. Some run 18's, but I'd say the vast majority runs a 13 speed. If I had the funds to buy a new truck, I wouldn't know what to buy. It's like buying equipment, buy the brand whose service in your area is best. It would be a complete toss up for me, Kenworth, International, Sterling, Peterbilt, I wouldn't be able to choose, but the service (and sometimes price) helps make a decision. Whatever chassis brand I buy, I'm fairly partial to Kenworth T800's, I'd go for Cummins ISX power with at least 450 horses, Fuller 18 speed, 20,000 front axle with 44,000 rears and a 15,000 lift axle, 16' rock box with high lift gate, Hendrickson suspension, lockers on both drive axles, monster radiator as it gets in the upper 90's here throughout summer, plumb it for a pup, throw on some chome and lots of lights and call it good.
Without considering the price, drivetrain, axles,or other common components to all brands, IMO Peterbuilt and Kenworth are the gold standards of quality, with the others being only marginally less.(very close) Truck makers are becoming more component brand loyal lately. I believe Pacar has nixed any ties with Detroit, while Freightliner/Sterling/Western Star are pushing Detroits and Mercedes engines, since they are partners in the Daimler Chrysler group. Mack and Volvo are using their own engines, with talks of a common design for both eventually. I believe International is still offering Cummins, Cats, and select other brands in their trucks. Trannies and axles choices should be available in any brand. I'm partial to Freightliner/Detroit/Eaton, although it's like the Ford/Chevy/Dodge debate (hard to justify the reasoning without having valid auguements made for the other brands) They all have good and bad points.:thumbsup I also have had troubles(some major) with my 03 Mack , and am bias against them, although mine may be a fluke and not representative of Macks in general.:beatsme As already said, the service can be a big part of the overall satisfaction, so knowing which area dealer is best would/should play a part in the desicion too.
I think this is the 6 million dollar question nowadays.:yup Time will tell just who knew what they were doing. I personally might avoid any 07 truck purchase until it becomes clearer.
I read on a truck forum how a survey found that Mack was the worlds most unreliable truck but I'm never one for surveys...depends who designs the survey. A mate of mine runs 7 B-double fuel tankers all over the state. He has picked up about $3000.00 a month in fuel costs by phasing out is Macks and Kennies with Scania. He only has one Mack left and the driver with the least time has to punt that around. The older guys wont go near the american stuff anymore, mainly due to comfort, control, and braking. Despite the fuel economy advantage of the European stuff there is still a lot of Kenworths being sold here. Sterling are making a mark. I hate Trucks...wish we didn't have to have them.:ban
Since one of our Mack CL's flipped we've test drivn some trucks lately. Mack is not what it was and it will never be. Now owned by Volvo and it seems like volvo is trying to make the better truck and keep mack down in a way. The salesman sells mack and volvo and he brought both. The volvo is put together much better. I'm talking mainly about the cab etc. The motors now for mack are volvo's but sold to mack according to the salesman. The Mack just seemed like a POS. It didn't drive well or anything. Volvo seems like it would be alright if you want to wait for parts and don't mind an ugly truck. In the end it looks like we'll be adding to the growing Kenworth fleet with another T800. After you drive a t800 you never want to drive another truck, also they came in lower then volvo and mack which surprised too. They are smooth, reliable so far, and the service in my area for KW is the best dealer in the US so that helps too. So anyway to answer your Mack question again, after we have owned Macks since the 60's and with our most recent Macks from the 90's and after trying them this month, it can be said they Mack is sliding down a slope that it will never recover from. Look to Kenworth or Pete, whatever dealer can help you the most.
I personally like the Peterbilts 335 or the Kenworths. International is alright. Mostly used by tree & landscapers since they are a slightly smaller truck and can still handle alot.
I read that International is bringing out new engines of their own in the 11 - 13 liter class. Due in late '07 I think. I wonder if they will keep offering the Cat and Cummins choices in IH trucks after the new motors gain some acceptance?
I think if they want to keep selling class 8 trucks they'll offer Cat and Cummins power. If not, I think people will look elsewhere. The DT466 was a legendary International motor, but that doesn't say much about larger motors they produce if and when that comes around.