im just curious everyones opinion on which manufacture makes the best excavator. not mini excavator 20 ton and larger??? and why they think they are the best.....
i've owned a ruston bucyrus 150, fiat allis fe-20, hitachi 200, 2-690 e deeres, 6620 koerhing, and just bought a new 210 hyundai..have leased kobelco, link belt....there really is no "pick of the litter"...they all performed well, my dad started in the late 40's with Hopto truck mounted backhoes, switched to Drotts in the late 60's, all with detroits...his theory was, if it didn't scream, pour oil all over, it wasn't a decent power plant. time will tell on the hyundai, dealer offered me a deal too hard to pass up. but the most trouble free of the machines i've owned, plus best dealer support have been the 690e deeres...excellent machines.
Ive operated Cat, Komatsu, John Deere, Fiat Allis... They all did their jobs, even the old Fiat Allis. Its kinda hard to compare though in my case. The machines were all different sizes. The Cat 320 and 330 Ive run definatly had the most digging power of the bunch. But I also spent alot of time on a Komatsu PC200 a few years ago and loved that machine as well. Though it felt slighty weaker than the Cat, It seemed to be a very smooth machine to me as an operator. That to me made up for its feeling of being slightly weaker than the Cat 320....
Were the 320 and 330 C-series versions or B-series, do you remember?
I never met a Cat I didn't like.Most all of the excavators have their good and bad points and you don't really know who built what nowadays but by and large the Caterpillar stands taller than the rest in my many years operating experience.The most over rated excavator in my estimation was the Ackerman.I consider any of the swedish equipment to be very unfriendly to work with and the first Ackerman I ran back in the mid eighties was probably the best of them all. Ron
take a 320 cat, nose it down a 45 degree ramp, scoop up full bucket of dirt, idle machine down, and see how well it swings that load around to the high side of the machine. i was at hitachi's proving grounds in houston, they had just about every manufacturer's machines there, supposedly set up to factory specs. the 320 was only one that couldn't perform that task.
Thats good but why would you need to do that !!!!!! The reason people but cats are for there resale value!!!
Interesting. The Cat's (I assume you mean 320C and not B) has a maximum swing torque of 45,611 ft-lb (from Cat's website, machines, hydraulic excavators, 320C L) whereas Deere's 200C is listed as 41,250 ft-lb. The Hitachi Zaxis is listed as 43,218 ft-lb. The only way Hitachi can arrange for the Cat not to swing up the load is if a) the Cat's swing radius was greater than the other machines (either arm/stick extended further or longer arm stick combo); b) the Cat's bucket was bigger than the others c) Cat's idle speed has a dramatically lower swing torque than the other machines d) "Idle speed" is flexible in its meaning (exact RPM or equal horsepower?) I didn't see how the equipment was set up, but something sounds fishy.
One of the qualities that an excavator should have is the ability to modulate the available pressure in its hydraulic system by lowering the engine rpm.I can think of many scenerios where that would be desireable,from working close to delicate objects(people in the trench etc.)to walking the excavator over very rough ground (nosing over the edge of a ravine etc.) You can be assured that when the time comes for the Cat to reach out and grab a trench box that the trench box will behave and do what it has been told,unlike some of the other big name imports that I could mention. That Hitachi excavator has some bloopers in its past too,the last one I ran had the throttle controls on a touchpad near your right elbow and if you needed to lower the engine rpm you had to stop what you were doing to look at the touchpad which had a scazillion buttons on it,some of us even needed glasses to see it and make your selection from several choices there. An operator needs to be able to lay his hand on the throttle without taking his eyes off of his work,whether it be a throttle stick or a rotary control,you need to have access to it on a moments notice and the confidence that your next move will be the right one.There is no way that a person could operate the touchpad on that Hitachi without looking at it.They need an operators input when they design those things and since they also build the John Deere I am told I am surprised that that slipped by them.I doubt that any John Deeres ever went to market that way,the last one I ran was an 892 and it was conventional in that regard. Ron G
And no offense meant by my previous post... I know this is a discussion thread, and certainly have no right to comment on others' choices of "best excavator."
Well, actually, you *do* have a right to comment on other's opinions. It's the sharing of differing points of view, and personal experiences that makes the board a resource for everybody. Heck, that's what makes it a discussion! I'd had some of the same thoughts about dayexco's comments that have already been expressed. Last night I took a quick look at the specs for similar sized Kobelco and Komatsu machines, expecting to find that maybe the CAT was giving up some muscle in swinging for a greater rate of swing, but they all looked pretty similar. I have no ax to grind on the subject one way or another. I've had no seat time in CAT excavators at all, and only a little in a Deere, and a couple of Komatsus. I do have a couple thousand hours in different models of Kobelcos. If in fact the CAT was the only brand that stood out for being unable to pass that particular test it would be interesting to know how it compared otherwise. Was it superior in other ways? Maybe the other brands compromised on some other aspects of their performance. Or maybe not. It would also be interesting to know how much throttle you'd have to add to get the CAT to swing that bucketful uphill that way.
digger242j -- I may have the right to express my opinions and share information that acknowledges or disputers another user's post, but what I meant was I didn't want my post to attack the OP's. That is, I wasn't out to try to "get him" by my first post... in the sense of, I wasn't there to begin with so what discussion I posted wasn't intended to attack what he clearly saw. I don't feel comfortable attacking other users' ideas of "best machine in so and so category" either, as we all have favorites for one reason or the other. I may try to convice otherwise, but each of us is entitled to not being bashed for our preferences. Leastaways, in my little Utopian world we are. I don't find it offensive if others don't agree with that, so no hard feelings, anyone. Anyhow, back on topic... :drinkup
I am continually impressed with the gentlemanly level of discourse that takes place here, but you, sir, set a standard of gentlemanly conduct that even I cannot hope to surpass. I salute you. :salute Indeed, it is time to return to the topic at hand...
I do some trucking & hauling for a big time Demo contractor & i'm friends with one of his operators & buys nothing but Hitachi's !! You don't do any tougher work then demo & they hold up great!! this guy has the $$ to buy any kind of machine he wants & he buys hitachi's!!! That tells me something!!
I may be a little late on this thread because I joined the site today thanks to Steve. In my opinion the best Excavator on the market is Komatsu. I work for a large sewer and water contractor in the Chicago area and all our excavators are Komatsu. In my 16 years as an Operating Engineer I have operated every brand of excavator and I believe the komatsu is the best. The old Cat's were good but the Komatsu blows them away today. The power, reach, lifting ability and duribility blow away the compitition. We recently got a Komatsu PC-600 what a beast that is. Cat still makes the best loader track or rubber tire.
I'd like to throw long term durability into the discussion. We work with and see a lot of Hitachi and Komatsu excavators these days that belong to big companies. However, for them, they are usually not a long term purchase. When the contract is finished they go too. I guess as a small operator I am comfortable paying a bit more and expecting to have the machine for 6 years plus. Downtime can be a real disaster for a small operator. I'm in the market for a 18,000lb sized machine an it really needs to go the distance.
You can't go wrong with Hitachi if contractors here are getting 10,000 hours on Hitachi excavators digging in the most severe conditions you can get. A excavator digging in sand will last forever you wouldn't even wear the boom pins out. I really don't know what your guys fear of Hitachi machines if they were that bad why is there so many of them on jobsites. You want to run a well worn machine run a excavator that has spent all its life here in B.C. Canada where it almost rains 365 days a year and your digging in rock conditions that you can rip teeth off of buckets. Digging rock your trying to get a tooth into a crack of the rock to try get it to separate you pull back on the dipper till the machine is damn near standing on its nose. Or your scraping on a solid chunk of rock and the viberation from the teeth on the bucket is running through the whole machine. There are still UH Hitachi's kicking around they are still working you don't see old Cat excavators doing that. For a 18,000lb machine a EX-100 or EX-120 sized machine will do ya. Where we take Hitachi machines would boggle your mind. On slopes where your sliding down the slope like a tobogan on snow. Working the machine to maximum gradability and past that. I seriously doubt you guys could wear a machine out digging in dirt and sand the machine is not even sweating.
i've owned hitachi, deere, koerhing, ruston bucyrus, leased link belt, kobelco. they were all good machines, my hitachi was virutally the same machine other than paint and engine as my 690 deere. the hitachi 200 had 9300 hrs on it when we traded it, virtually no problems. we've got 6500 on our 690 deere now, and that's been an excellent machine, virtually no down time other than the front engine seal started leaking this spring, had to have that repaired. bought a new 210 hyundai this spring, absolutely love it. wanted the deere, but after having both dealers bring them up to my jobsite on a 3 day "try and buy"....my son and i couldn't justify the extra 18k for the new 200 deere. resale value will be brought up? well, if you put 8-10k hrs on a machine before you trade them out, and the serviceability is virtually the same, can you justify the cost of your additional money out front to buy the cat or deere in the time frame you keep it? put that 18k in the bank, let it draw interest....for us, we came to the conclusion that money wise, the hyundai was the best route to go. you just have to keep in mind the parts availabilty and dealer service rep when you make your final decision.
The problem with the Hyundai they are are really cheap just from the salt air here on the West Coast the body panels rust off the machine.
The company I work for gets rid of the excavators between 12000 and 14000 hours. These excavators work in tough conditions and hold up very good. Its like everything else some people like one brand of tractor and other people like another brand.
Most contractors will keep their machines for 5 years or so the machine has usually paid for itself couple times over. The thing that costs money to repair is undercarriage as we are on steep slopes its hard on final drives,tracks and the rollers etc. The operator makes or breaks the machines life if the operator is hard on the machine its going to wear out faster than a operator that is smoother. One contractor here had the boom break off of their excavator from over working the machine (200 size) the machine was abused a little bit. The other contractors I worked for had the booms crack. Welding up cracks in buckets is a monthly chore and rebuilding buckets ever 6 months or so.
I actually believe they are one of the best machines just haven't the experience with maintaining them day in day out to offer a well balanced opinion.
Hitachi machines are cheap to repair the Isuzu engines are almost flawless great on fuel start in any conditions and they are quiet. You grease the machine dailly and change the engine oil every 500 hours or so the machine should last you for ever. If your buying the machine brandnew then you know what you got and you keep up the regular maintenance like greasing. I imagine the expensive part is importing a machine to the island that must add to the cost to the machine.
Mazzocchi Wrecking in NJ?
Yesterday 04:03 PM Ford LT-9000 The problem with the Hyundai they are are really cheap just from the salt air here on the West Coast the body panels rust off the machinrey really cheap? in what respect? my family has been in th excavating biz since 1947. i've got tens of thousands of seat time hours. the new hitachi 200 i bought back in 93 had to have the boom mounts and cab side repainted after delivery because of the effects of the salt air while it was being shipped over from japan. i'll put this hyundai up against any same sized hitachi throwing dirt day in day out....as i've said earlier, we attempt to calculate at the time of purchase what our overall operating expense for that life of the machine will be before we purchase it. this particular purchase, the ball was in hyundai's court. the hitachi i had was great, except that when it was brand new, hitachi wouldn't allow isuzu to cross-over oil filter numbers for the first 18 months....so i was at the hitachi dealer's mercy when it came to buying them...the hitachi we had the 6-BD1T.....to purchase both filters from the hitachi dealer was $99.00....after they released the numbers, $31.00. from the NAPA store. this hyundai has the 5.9 cummins, i can get those filters anywhere. if you've got some extra time, price a new windshield for the size hitachi you run, and call the deere dealer and ask them what that same windshield would cost for the deere equivalent....it'll wake you up
The Hyundai's I looked at was one a excavation contractor I worked with on one job his machine was junky it didn't look very well built. Then I looked at another Hyundai at a auction the side panels were rusted holes through them the rest of the machine was beat to crap. The machine didn't have that many hours on it. With windows on excavators the machines around here have cab gaurding its over the cab with bars over the front and door windows. Its pretty rare to break a window if a window is broke it gets replaced with lexan or the local glass company cuts a new window. When you have forestry contractors that buy Hitachi machines for one reason because they are tough. I seriously doubt your machines dig blasted rock 10 hours a day there is no such thing as dirt building logging roads. The forest industry proves the toughness of machines Hitachi and Deere are on the top of the list for road building excavators. The local excavation contractors dig blast rock too but not as much but they are still digging rock building driveways and general landclearing. Most of the area is dirt with loose boulders that range from 6"s to 6' diameter to solid rock that needs blasting.
Cat has posted the 324D and 325D on its web site (under hydraulic excavators). Squizzy, you have seen this already as the D-series have been listed on the Cat AU site for quite some time now.
I'll have to give a political response to that one...I can't recall....but maybe. In the mid sized machines its just so rare to see a Cat these days.
Given your previous posts here, do you see Hitachi and Komatsu the most? Or are mid-size excavators not too popular in general?
Hitachi...everywhere you look in the mid size stuff. We have a couple of PC 1000's in local quarrys and Komatsu mini's are becoming more popular. Out the mines its a different story...Cat Cat Cat.
You don't see anything but Cats and Linkbelts out here. I'm missing my Deere's and Hitachi's.
Out here in WA it's Cat Deere and Hitatchi for the most part (at least on the west side). Pape Machinery is a dominant business here in WA with multiple stores and generally speaking where ever these stores are (one in the north end and one in the south end with a few here and there inbetween) there's a lot of these machines running around. There's a few Kobelco dealers here and there and those you see around more and more now especially those bladerunner models and that's about it. Komatsu and Link-Belt aren't too common but they are around. Blake WA
yup around here all you see is cat, hitachi, and deere. i see a komatsu or kobelco every once in a while. Although the outfit i work for just bought 2 brand new hyundai's. a 140 and a 160 and i'm very impressed with them so far.
Pape out of Wenatchee blows, I refuse to do business with them. I imagine their westside counterparts are much better, but the guys in Wenatchee are getting their asses stomped on by NC Machinery. I guess the Wenatchee branch of NC leads the state in rentals and for good reason, the Chelan area is EXPLODING. 95% Cat and Deere here, one guy runs an old Sumitomo, which is basically Case. Most of the loggers up north are running Kobelcos in Colville but that's because they have a dealer in Spokane, nothing here in centrail WA for Kobelco, Link Belt, Komatsu, Case, nothing, just Deere and Cat. Tyler, where are you located?
Anacortes, about an hour and change drive north of seattle.
That's interesting that Pape blows out east. I was kind of wondering how well they do. I pass them every summer on my way to Chelan. We buy our Deere equipment from the Pape in Mt. Vernon. They treat us pretty well, good service. I'm not sure how NC does in Mt. Vernon. We just had Western Power and Equipment move up in the Arlington area, it'll be interesting to see how they do. We have Case backhoes but no dozers or anything else they make. Blake WA
mt. vernon is only about 20 minutes from here, where are you located?
That's right, you told me Anacortes before, duh. LOL. My bad. Coopers - Do you mean Machinery Power and Equipment? If so, that's MP&E, that's basically our Wenatchee store. I think they're the family company of NC Machinery and they stretch all the way to Oregon. NC was just a WA state company years ago, much like Smith Tractor before Pape bought them out. MP&E = NC Machinery = Cat, kinda weird.
No, Western Power and Equipment is a case dealer. Blake WA
Hitachi I think that Hitachi is the best one you can find in States. Hitachi is sold by JD with JD name. Checkout if they started to import ZAXIS-3 series for JD on OEM basis. -reason?? they are excavator specialist..
I have always heard that the Hitachi/John Deere excavators have equal partnership in the design, it's not like the ADT's that are rebadge Bell's. The R&D of Deere and Hitachi both work on the new excavators, that being said, the big difference are the engines they run on and the paint on the outside. :wink2 Speaking of which, has anyone seen these new D-seris first hand?:thumbsup *Picture courtesy of John Deere website. (the full sized verison of these photos are HUGE)*
I'm a little curious why we can repost copyrighted photos here... :beatsme Nothing aggressive in my tone, but should I be worried about the consequences? Anyhow, I think the Deere excavators are butt ugly. The cabs look nice, but the counterweight looks like it was stuck on (not smoothly connected to the rest of the machine), and the hood enclosure is HUGE on even the 450D. I still think Cat, Komatsu, and Terex, and Liebherr (especially the C-series) excavators look the best...
Tigerotor.. I understand what you are saying, but I do feel that as long as you give the owner of said photo it's due credit, which I did do, there shouldn't be a problem. I agree that people should give credit where it is due, but I don't feel I've done anything wrong, if I have than I'm sure the moderators will let me know:thumbsup I agree that the engine hoods are boxy and look really oversized.:Banghead
My understanding and position is as long as the source is credited, it's ok. We aren't using their photos for profit, that's where we'd run into problems.
Fair enough. Just curious, as it were...
Sigh of relief No hard feelings:bouncegri , I had the same thoughts before I posted the photo, but figured that it should be ok. On a different note, I wish the engine housing was less blocky, but that cab looks to have a lot of glass, which is a plus in my opinion. -Jim
I'm not "digging" the new Deere's look. I liked the C series Deeres a lot better. Personally, C series Cats are sexy, but that's just me.
All that matters is that it says Deere on the side and it's sexy to me:thumbsup .
It looks like from the their website that the D series hasn't made it's way down to the "smaller" sizes like the 200, 160, and 120's. I don't know why Deere is going with the black on the hoe. It looks stupid, Deere, among other things, is known for their yellow. The black cab for the C series looks sharp, I like it but I'm not sure I like the whole black hoe thing. Too Volvo like. Volvo looks good, but that's because it's Volvo. Oh well, what can you do. Blake WA
The smallest D series right now is the 240D I saw one in Vagas at the show, as far as the dark grey boom the rep was teeling me the did studys and said with the boom being that color it does not distract you and you can concentrate on the bucket.
That's actually a good point, Nac... manufacturers are turning to black on various parts of the machine to reduce glare. (Black D11 hood, black D11 blade, black 994F bucket, just Cat examples... ) But I honestly never would have thought it on an excavator -- I would think you'd have to try really hard to get glare off the boom of an excavator.
glare, on a hoe? geesus..gimme a break...they do the fancy body work on the machine to appease the pimplers
Glare or distraction, sounds like a wad to me. They're just copying Volvo, yeah, that's what they're doing. :thumbsup :bouncegri
Does anyone know why a Hitachi EX160LC Excavator that when we start it, It idle's real high, it will idle for about 5 to 10 seconds then it shuts the machine down?
You should start a new thread with your question. It has nothing to do with who makes the best excavator.
Wow. Oldest thread I've seen posted in a while, LOL. Was kinda fun reading up on a "new" D-series Deere.