Was wondering a few things about Wheel Loaders: How well do they backfill trench spoils, how good do they perform in the mud, are they a type machine a utility contractor can use year around, or is it a dry weather machine only?? Your comments would be appreciated.
How well do they backfill trench spoils? They do it quite well; wheel loaders can backfill trenches faster than excavators due to having bigger buckets relative to their size, and they burn less fuel and need less maintenance than excavators. Just be careful that you don't fall into the trench... How good do they perform in the mud? They do... okay in not-too wet mud. Expect deep ruts to be made and expect to get stuck periodically. I work my loader a lot in mud, and when working over wet new fill, I make ruts as deep as a foot, sometimes even deeper. When working in wet mud, getting stuck is a near daily occurrence for me. I always have my excavator around to pull the loader out, so its no big problem, but it still wastes time. The ground pressure of a wheel loader is 5-10x higher than an excavator, depending on how loaded the loader is and how wide the excavator's tracks. I can go wading through swamp in my excavator; I won't even try getting close in a loader. Can I use it all year 'round? I don't know how the weather is in Arkansas, so I can't say how it'll be for you. For me, I use my loader almost all year 'round. I move dirt with it from May to November, and push snow with it from December through February. I don't use mine much in March and April because it is rather wet where I am during these 2 months, and I make ruts everywhere. Who makes the best 3yd loader? I like CAT loaders best. My own IT18F has been the most reliable machine I own thus far (I've had it for about an year now), and almost every CAT loader I've played with seems to just work.
I agree with Sultan on some points but not on all of them. IMO the loader is the best tool for backfilling small trenches (like most water and sewer lines). If you get really big, wide trenches than you may be better off with a dozer. The dozer will perform better in mud too. You may find that tire chains will help if you are working in mud a lot. Where I don't agree is that the loader will burn less fuel and be less to maintane. IMO the excavator will be less expensive to operate. I like the Cat loaders best as well. I currently own a Deere 544J but I prefer the Cats (928 & 930) because of the better feedback. I can really feel what's going on where the Deere is vague. This is more important in some applications than others (like fine grading). In the dirt the limited slip axles really help keep tire spin to a minimum (available on the Cats if you are looking at recent models). Tire spin is the enemy as it will increase operating costs substantially.
Thanks sultan & DGODGR for the comments, I'm thinking that a wheel loader would be a great addition to my fleet-just have to break out the 555G WT in the Winter & Spring.
We run Komatsu wheel loaders and we are very happy with them. I am not saying they are the best, because we haven't tried the other brands, but they are very good, the oldest one we have, has 11,500 hours on it and we have not had any problems at all with it, or the other machines.. They are comfortable to operate and relatively easy to work on and service. Wheel loaders do not perform well in really wet conditions and limited slip diffs are essential, but in dry conditions, you can't go past them. They are fast, manouverable, versatile, they can carry material over distances, keep the site clean, lift things and do a multitude of tasks around the job site. RnR.
Thanks RocksnRoses, I appreciate the input. You Loader guys keep the comments coming!
We're on our second Case 621 and we've been very happy with them.
In that size, I will get a Volvo, good cab.good engine and when it comes from Sweden, it is always made of good steel.
If your going for a wheel loader to support a pipe crew, look for a tool carrier that you can add a broom or forks to. flip over and clamp on forks just irriate me, but thats just me.
Thanks Guys, I'm thinking of a Case 621 or a JD 544 with a quick attach & some forks. Will probably go new. We are very particular with our Equipment & it works well for us to buy new. What do you think that will run me in $$$, anyone know??
i think those are GREAT choices. we have owned deere's for years, and love em...but went to the case tomahawk, wi proving grounds and was VERY impressed with the case loaders.
i would disagree with the tool carrier for a pipe crew..i'd go a good jrb coupler and keep the twin boom instead. i think you lose a lot of breakout force going tool carrier vs. normal boom configuration.
[/IMG]just bought a 624k loaded with forks and bucket, 3rd spool valve for 210,000. I have had 3 deere loaders with well over 8-12000hrs on them... none of them have ever caust me a dime except for some bad fuel which froze and cracked a filter. For us in spring I put skidder tires on my underground machine which makes it unstopable in the mud, and deere is the only manufacturer that will warrenty their powertrain with those kind of tires. I have run lots of cat,deere,case... and komatsu (dont need to say ne more bout that ) figure out the sise you want then put them all on a site side by side and see which one works for you ! I am a firm beliver in saying you get what you pay for let us know
I would like to hear about that. RnR.
.... Just didnt like the machine or the dealer for that matter, deere and case bolth had ride control and hyd quick coupler the komatsu didnt and in wet clay when we were pushing the wa250 wouldn't come close to the rest. I just wasnt impressed with the lack of technology on the machine at the time aswell as the poor dealer supprt
When I bought my 544j, a little over a year ago, I was given a quote for a brand spank'n new 544k. Equipped with radials, coupler, ride control, cab/air, sound supression, never grease pins and bushings...pretty much all the bells and whistles. The quote was $134,000. At the time it sounded like a good deal for a brand new one. The 544j was a used '04 with 1,000 hrs. When they brought the machine in from Salt Lake City I was pretty pleased. It was in like new condition. It had most everything I wanted on it. It didn't come with a coupler so I added that to the deal. The price (without the coupler and third valve) was less than half of the new one. For me it was an easy choice. I still chuckle when I get in this near new loader and think of what I paid for it. I still prefer the Cat loader but I just couldn't pass up the deal on the Deere.
God knows I'm not a Komatsu fan, but I have to say, I do like their loaders. Our WA380s all have ride control and hydraulic couplers, so I don't understand them not being available on the WA250 you tried. Now, as for the dealer, yeah, they're about as useless as they come. They don't call SMS, Shoddy Maintenance Service for nothing.
We had a Great run out of VOLVO LOADERS They also have Diff lock on front Axle which makes them more versatile epecially wet conditions also there Quick hitch implements are an added advantage.Top class Machines Easily Skin Any CAT loader And Furthermore VOLVO"s go forever
Up until a few years ago, we couldn't buy Deere loaders here and even now, Deere and Case loaders are in the minority. If the WA 250 didn't have limited slip diffs it wouldn't push well in wet clay, they are a must in those conditions. We are very happy with our machines, our WA 380-5 has ride control and I really like it. Fortunately for us, we hardly ever need go to the dealer, but I haven't been overly impressed the few times I have dealt with them. We purchased all of our machines through and independent supplier and I don't think the Komatsu dealer even knows who we are. RnR.
I am not shure how big a 3 cyd loader is, but it sounds as something around a L70/L90. In ** we have a big number of theese loaders as service loaders on our projects. They handle anything from loading gravel/sand/rock, to forks, snowclearing, broom, lifting boom++. Machines is kept for apr 10-13 000h or 5-6 years and then auctioned away. Over here i'd say Cat, Volvo, Komatsu and Hitachi is the ones to evaluate. Theese are the produsers with a service net acceptable. And spares available. A L90E was sold some weeks ago, 12 500 hours, some rust, incl 1 bucket, sparewheel(bad), overal good techn shape. Price? apr 40-45% of the price for a new F. Nice cabs, high resale price, good service network, low new price and good performance is the reason for us to continue to buy Volvo. But then, this is Norway.... Here is the ad: http://www.retrade.no/aitem?aitem_id=111529 Price shown is only starting price at the auction!
Deere loaders have done extremely well for us. If you're buying used Cat's seem to be way over priced for what you get. I like Komatsu's too and of the used (within 5 years old) they seem to be the most reasonably priced
Deere claimes to have the best resale in the market aswell
Thanks for all the comments guys. If you are reading this and use loaders, and have an opinion, I would be glad to read about it.
We don't buy new or for resale, currently have 5 Case 621's. 3 621a's and 2b's, all but 1 over 20,000hrs. The "A" models are very simple, have installed the balderson style Q/C on 2 of them so they match up with our Cat 926. One of the A's was the first to cross over the 30,000hr mark last week. The 5.9 cummins go about 20,000hr and the head bolts let go, the ZF trans have been bullet proof. The "B" models have a trans computer and wet brakes, both are time consuming and expensive to work on. My 2 cents.
Don't forget about the Kawasaki line.If it wasn't for them having the 1st articulated RT loader...then things might be different.They are built very heavily & wear better on many wear points than a lot of the competition.The 65TMV is the twin cyl tool carrier style & the 65ZV-2 is the Z bar version(544 size).Both are powered by the Isuzu for excellent power & Fuel economy.Std air ride seat,A/C etc.The 70 also comes in both styles,just a bit bigger & Cummins power. http://www.kawasakiloaders.com You can get the QC on both styles for bucket & fork use.Ride Control is also an option...lots to choose from...good luck
Don't forget about your dealer,parts and support in central Ar most dealers other than the Cat dealer likely won't even have a full set of filters.Just my 2cents
If I were buying a loader for a pipe crew I would think a side dump bucket would be a good option. I would buy Cat or Deere Reason being : parts availability is almost instant, resale value is the best next choic would be Case or Komatsu, Volvo parts prices are just too high ( way too high ) And look at how it has been maintained and operated because most guys use hrs as there main reason for buying the used machine that they bought. I think a Cat is just broken in at 12,000 hrs. Remember this Poor maintenance or a poor operator can do more harm to the machine in 2000 hrs than it would ever see in 12,000 hrs of good maaintenance and a good operator
I'm new to this site but am interested in getting into a smaller loader . Priced out a Wa200 Komatsu because I've good things about them. Just wondering if somebody could explain the pros and cons of their traction control vs competitions limited slip diff's
I own a Cat 950B and just encountered my first problem with it... a small pin hole in the block (DANG IT) gonna have to spend some money on it now!!!! But other than that, it just been fuel,filters, fluids, and edge's, tires' and the like....by the way the hour meter read 24,351 hrs. Don't komatsu cost like 2 million dollars?
There is only one of them, Grampa, the rest are quite cheap.:wink2 RnR.
I demoed the WA200 and I did not like it. I did not like the hydrostatic transmission (which some people love) and the dealer told me to leave the traction control button alone. He said that it just derates the power of the engine. Maybe someone who has one can give a true explanation of how, if at all, they find a benefit with the traction control of the Komatsu. In the Cat the diffs work just like that in a truck that has limited slip. Clutches in the diff apply power to the wheel that is not spinning.
Yes ,I'd like to hear from someone that owns one.
Hey Zeke, Are you running Kawasaki Loaders? I believe they have a good reputation & have proved themselves over the years. I only ever ran a 65 series in 1990 ,for a day. The Isuzu engines are used throughout many Jap machines,such as Furukawa & Hitachi.Again,very reliable & economical. I'd like to hear from anyone running a Kawasaki, TCM or Hitachi Loader.. Jim
Hello Guys, Could anyone help me Pls. We have a Komatsu Avance Loader WA250-3. The maintenance manuals says the recommended oils for the transmission and hydraulic is SAE 10W engine oil.. Could anyone tell me the equivalents of this oils in the local brands. Thanks.
Cat makes the best loader in any size, then Deere
Deere makes the best loader in any size, than Komatsu, THEN Cat.:stirthepot
I would tend to agree.