From the interwebs... "Caterpillar Inc., the largest maker of life-size sandbox toys in the world, has reported a sharp slide in profits for the second quarter in a row, as demand for mining equipment takes a steep downward turn." http://news.yahoo.com/why-caterpillars-profits-plummeting-112500131.html Just a FYI...hope this is the proper section...
Good - maybe the delivery times for new machines will come down from "Out of this World" to simply "Long" ................. We're being quoted 18 months delivery on new large-size Haul Trucks - 3 years ago it was 8 weeks....!!
Wow, they plan to cut 2,000 jobs.
No, they have already, plus 9000 temporary workers have gone.
I have not read the article yet but apparently the European crisis is quite serious. This probably has something to do with it. I think global mining is up and other markets are doing better as well.
Where are the jobs being cut?
Everywhere. Mining sales have taken the biggest hit.
you'd think so, but it seems it's goes the other way.. companies would rather sack the staff and drop output than cranking up production to drop delivery times
The coal mines in my area have all but shut down. Local Cat dealer is expecting a major sales reduction in heavy mining equipment which amounted to small numbers of machines sold but a large % of their annual volume, they are bracing for the downturn. Met coal is still somewhat stable but furnace coal has taken a hit.
Tks to the world slow down and the enviros. Forecast say another year and things will pick up. Cats purchase of be and new plants is another reason but will really show up in a matter of time. The mining outside us will increase in the near future and cats purchase of be will really increase their market share. It's a global factor-our leadership in this country can resolve alot of it but the administration doesn't seem too interested (taxes). Don't worry-cat will more than survive.
We just went out for quote on a fleet of close to 100 construction equipment machines and were quoted 24-32 weeks delivery ex-factory depending on model and based on receipt of a confirmed order.
I'm not sure why this would come as a surprise. The economy has been crap for 5+ years now and it effects everyone . My local Cat dealer used to have their yard stuffed with machines, now you can see more pavement than equipment. Everyone has had to tighten up by reducing costs, which would include reducing the number of unsold machines on hand. I hope they do survive, but there are no guarantees in today's world.
Steve, in the mining business I would not necessarily agree with you. After the crash in 2008-9 delivery times dropped like a stone, despite the factory laying off thousands of workers. For example in 09 we could get 200-ton haul trucks on 8 weeks delivery ex-factory from a confirmed order. However by 2011 mining was booming on the back of high gold & base metal prices and deliveries for the same model of truck had gone up to 14 months. Now gold & base metals are declining again (gold alone is down 20% this month) so I would expect delivery times to come down, at least initially, until the reduction in workforce takes effect and they start to go back up again.
I don't recall Cat ever bringing work force back on after 2008. It was my impression that they dropped personnel levels to a bottom point and are only hiring replacements. I know D11 and D10 orders were eighteen months to two years out a couple of years ago. You couldn't find a decent one to rebuild even. Now these machines are being advertised all over the US. I've heard that the influx of natural gas is becoming a big reason coal fired generating plants are shutting down and coal mining is taking the hit. In this part of the country the western coal mines are shooting big at exporting to China if they can get new port facilities past the greenies. There is also lots of noise around here that the tar sand oil is too costly environmentally. As long as my lights and stove work, I don't much care where my electricity comes from.
I agree, I think it's a double whammy of a glut of natural gas and the EPA's never ending regulations on coal fired plants. We'll see the majority of coal fired power plants shift to natural gas in the coming years and the costs passed along monthly in our mailbox.:cool2
It seems to be a cycle that goes around. For the past 5 or 6 years here in West Oz its been flat out. Every contractor was knocking back work. Now its the other way round.I have my competitors calling me to see if I have anything to spare. They all thought the work would go on for ever. I think my total this month will be boring a EX200 quick hitch and links.
I can find you plenty of work. Fancy a vacation .......??
My guess is that their competition has cought up with them and in some parts passed them. I know I get much better service out of my local John Deere dealer than the Cat shop. My family was pure Cat fore 40 years. We go with JD now. Last 4 machines we have purchased have been JD and could not be happier. Dusty
Got nothing to do with competition, look around all suppliers are down, it,s the cycle that comes and goes and everyones profits drop off.
CM, some of us are fortunate to be the benificiary of the natural gas glut. Our home heat, water heater, and stove is natural gas, and our bill for that utility has been going down the last couple of years. We are also fortunate to have very low electricity here due to the amount of hydro plants in the area. On the down side of that, the natural gas drilling around Pinedale, WY has slowed down to a crawl due to the abundance of existing supply, so less work. Our local Cat dealer told me 2 years ago that they (CAT globally) were anticipating a considerable slow down about now, evidently their prognosticators are pretty sharp!
Personally I love gas appliances, especially a stove and have several gas appliances at home. What I meant about the increasing utility bills is in the areas where the coal plants will be retrofitting to nat. gas, will pass on those costs of plant upgrades to their customer. Most of our power plants are coal fired in my area with a few hydro plants thrown in. Southern Company is the parent company of AL, GA and MS power which has some of the lowest rates in the country as well but they will be able to pass along any costs associated with capital expenditures. I agree Cat does has it's nose to the economic ground, they are very good at predicting future trends in the equipment business. Some may call this cold hearted by closing plants and laying off workers but that's what happens when business patterns changed. My business pattern changed dramatically in 2008 and I am just getting started 5 years later working back to where I was - I feel the pain business cycles inflict and have sympathy for the lost jobs.
I disagree. At least in my case the customer service is lacking at my local dealerships. The John Deere dealer is the way CAT was in the 70s.Matter of fact I still have 5 CAT wheel loaders 1 928 F 2 966 Bs a 966F a 970FCAT and a 769 B haul truck also a 426 Back Hoe, I will keep them but the new machines I buy will be from John Deere because the customer service is so much better. Funny thing is they don't even seem to care that we are not buying from them anymore? I'm not a billion dollar a year corperation so not worth the effort I guess?
Dealerships are like anything else, some good some bad even with the same brand. It's a shame your Cat dealer has went backwards in the customer service department. My Cat dealer is top notch, both the tractor sales side and rental store. I haven't bought a new machine in 6 years but they treat me like I own a large fleet ( I currently only have 4 pieces of Cat iron). I know many in the corp. structure and good friends with some - this obviously has something to do with it but it works for me.
Yes I believe your right. I still own more CAT iron than anything else and buy parts from them. I won't name the dealership out of respect but the "other guys" are doing a much better job. The equipment is about the same as far as I can tell. At the end of the day they move the same amount of material and cost the same to maintain.
I suggest your comments should go further than simply posting your experiences on here. You local Cat area office is in Seattle and if you want it made known you're not happy with your dealer (who effectively is "Cat" as far as you're concerned because you never get an opportunity to interact with Cat Corporate) then I can probably give you a name of someone to talk to. In my experience Cat takes negative comments about dealer support to customers very seriously.
That would be great Nige. You can PM the info too me if you like. Dusty
You guys are also missing a big key factor, look at all the companies and mines shutting down or going out of business. I mean Lambrecht had almost 600 pieces of late model equipment that hit the market and that is just one company. There are a lot of nice used equipment on the market these days from all the sales.
Yes, that is a huge factor that no one considers, i know used equipment for sale in the case of 1 small model of elevating scraper was a huge factor in it being dropped from the line, if there are 5 or 600 of a certain model for sale used how many new sales do you think will come through the door, sure there would still be some but if you had experienced a couple years declining sales of new it most likely ain,t gunna pick up again.
Around here the pull pans and tractors move dirt. About the only place you see a wheel scraper is on a coal stockpile. I also believe that tier 4 emissions is hurting new equipment sales. I know this for sure on the farm tractors as no one wants to have to buy the def fluid, its just ridicules to have all the emission bull **** here in the U.S. like we are the only ones polluting the world.
I agree.
Its worth remembering that Cat is a global company. I myself have never seen a towed pan. People I line bore for have had typicaly a fleet of 50 plus 631's and 637's. All those cushion hitches to bore
Is'nt this the hope and change ?? ya all I got is a little change in my pocket....
I honestly think that a large corporation & it doesn't matter who, CANNOT sustain or maintain RECORD profits year after year, forever & ever. Lets call it the Apple syndrome. At some point in time the records cannot be beat & a realization comes into effect as in good profits but not record profits, it just cant continue forever. I do see that Deere & Komatsu are still doing well yet not at the same pace as previously. Also, the used equipment market affects ALL repeat ALL manufactures not just ONE, so you cannot blame all of Cats problems on the used market as some have said "no one seems to consider"...
That goes for everyone not just large corporations.
Mining markets in China and Australia are both down causing some slippage on equipment orders. Mining in the USA and Canada also down a bit. Large machine use for highway and dam construction is practically non-existent. Caterpillar quit being a worker oriented company in 1975 or soon after. Old management went out and new management were oriented toward stockholders and profits. Cat began a very confrontational attitude with it's unions then that exists today as well. In other words, employees are just something you use til you don't need them anymore, then they get tossed. Robotization became a huge factor as well. Just don't see many humans in a Cat plant anymore. Cat has fought the good fight with off-shoring manufacturing, but as we all knew, when labor, material costs and regulations and shipping costs caught up with the western world, where do you go then for cheap labor?
When only 30% of your business is in the USA what do you expect? I also believe the attitude was on both sides. Automation is no different. If you want to stay in the fight, you have to up-date. Its facts and life in todays world. Cat was also predicting the down turn.
I visited the dozer assembly plant in Peoria (D6 through D11 if I recall correctly) some years ago. Very impressive site! I was struck (visually, not physically) buy the site of one of the technicians that was wearing a John Deere hat. That fellow really has loyalty to his employer now, eh?
In our little corner of the world, Cat scrapers are being replaced with Deere pull scrapers. I hate em, but they do move dirt cheaper than the Cats do (at least on paper) lol. The construction economy is in the toilet, dirt jobs go so cheap that we don't even bid on some of them anymore. We are adjusting and doing lots more demo work now days. I hate that too, it's hard on equipment etc, but gotta keep the doors open somehow. Until our administration gets off it's butt and starts passing bills on infrastructure repairs, it's not going to get any better I fear.