Many manufacturers in China offer us their equipment products. A lot with different brand names and cheaper prices for the fact that it was wholesale offer. But almost all of the customers we offer it to, does not want China-made equipment. Why? What's the problem with those equipment guys? I think we must not look into the equipment's brand to judge it's quality. komatpillar.com
You used the most important word............ quality! Cheap is not best if it only lasts a fraction of the time of another brand. I am not saying that all Chinese products are **** but it takes only one bad experience to tarnish a reputation and that is one of the problems that Chinese manufacturers have. For example a new tyre and tube fitted to my machine. ( not my choice or cost ) After about 3 months the tube failed. It was not punctured, the tube failed where the valve stem is vulcanised / glued, to the tube. The tube and tyre are from China. About a year ago, against my better judgement I ordered and received a bluetooth headset from a chinese supplier ( via Ebay) as the model I really like is no longer available here. It lasted less than a month before it literally fell apart. Any good reputable manufacturer in China ( and I dont doubt there are some ) is fighting an up hill battle against a tide of opinion that is built on experiences like mine. The other serious problem that Chinese producers have to compete against is National pride. Some people will never buy a Chinese product due to something in thier own history.
Rob sums it pretty well. I cringe when I hear ridiculous comments that all chinese stuff is sub-standard. Its just not the case. In the real world you can hardly touch a consumer item or machinery for that matter that doesn't have some chinese manufactured component in it. You might think its all made in Germany, for example, but you would be wrong. Its a fact of life wether you like it or not. I remember when I was growing up the resistance to (and the often sub-standard) Japanese manufactured goods & machinery. Now the Japanese are seen as global leaders in quality equipment. How things change. The chinese have produced some sub-standard stuff for sure, but its only a matter of time, things will change. I look for Australian manufactured stuff wherever I can but we have limited options:beatsme I saw a consumer magazine that stripped down a heap of domestic items found in Australian garages like lawn mowers, weed whackers, excercise equipment, white goods, tool kits etc. They had components manufactured in 28 different countries as far as they could tell. Its called a Global Economy.
I too remember the time when "Japanese Junk" was the term for anything coming out of Japan and nobody wanted one of those "tin cans" to drive (like a Toyota or Honda) , how times have changed....:cool2 Having traveled to China twice and visited manufacturing facilities (unfortunately not heavy equipment - electronics), I will say the efficiency, cleanliness and worker dedication - not only on the floor level but all the way through management, is impressive. I went to a clean room in Tiawan that made micro chips by the thousands, that was pretty interesting. A CNC manufacturing facility in rural China that makes the CNC machines themselves for PCB (circuit boards). It was a 5 floor plant, 1st floor was solid slabs of marble, 2nd floor machine shop for the metal parts, 3rd floor computer controls, 4th floor assembly and 5th floor trouble shooting and finished product. But China has it's own set of quality perception as noted above. It's the whole "One bad apple spoils the bunch". Due to the shear size of China's manufacturing base allows a lot of corruption to enter the system from suppliers, manufacturer's and gov't officials all along the product chain. This is a rather large problem for China that will take time and effort to weed out if they want to change their products global perception. The first picture in this thread is from an upper floor at the CNC facility -
How can you not judge a machine's quality by brand??? Don't most manufacturer's strive to make quality equipment? Look at any advertisement for a machine, their attention to quality will surely be mentioned at least once in their ads. Quality is something to be proud of, if your machines are of high quality you surely want your consumers to know that. In addition to what the others have mentioned is dealer support. I continue to stress how important this is when you earn your living with machinery. If the machine goes down, how quickly it goes back on line plays a big part in the value and quality of that machine. You could easily lose your business if you have to wait two weeks or more for a part to go back on line and that can be the case with Chinese manufactured machines.
I guess they have to prove themselves, both in machine reliability and availability of spares. From what I understand the Chinese machines use a lot of parts from other places, like valve bodies, engines and other hydraulic components. I do know that Kobelco has an assembly plant in China, which is located near where that big earthquake was and they donated a couple of machines and some money to help rebuild. Whilst they may be cheaper to buy initially, you are going to lose that when it comes time to trade. However I am starting to see a few Sumithomo(?) machines around the place, I am guessing they are made in the PRC.
Okay, so you've explained it very well guys, Thanks a lot. :beerchug Maybe those Chinese manufacturers that indeed has good quality equipment needs to really work hard to prove themselves to the world. To at least change the bad reputation they had gotten because of 'some' that degrades quality. As CM1995 puts it "One bad apple spoils the bunch". :iagree As some of the guys here said, "things will change". But it depends on the efforts and determination of the Chinese manufacturers on how to uplift their reputation about their products. And this must be continuous. For if only a few will value quality products and services, it's still no use. The bad ones will still overpass the good ones. www.komatpillar.com
You might have to have another guess, Hendrik, remember the Sumitomo wrestlers. Sumitomo hve been around for a long time and are manufactured by Sumitomo Heavy Industries in Japan. BT Equipment sell them. http://www.btequipment.com.au/equipment/excavators/sumitomo_excavators.html Rn'R.
Must be thinking of another brand and I have heard of Sumo wrestlers but don't recall Sumitomo wrestlers.
Reputation for quality is hard earned and easily lost There are other factors that go into a decision to purchase a machine, such as brand loyalty, loyalty to your country, being friends with the local dealer, perhaps in the case of the PRC some might not like buying stuff from a socialist country. As a side note, I bought a motor for my ex that was made in China and is an exact copy of an Yanmar unit. So far so good and the reason I had to replace the motor was that the original Yanmar had a crack in the inlet manifold and let a whole lot of crap into the motor. Now I don't know what caused the crack as I suspect it has been there a while, perhaps someone stood on the air filter, however Yanmar is pretty much the world leader in compact Diesels and as such I would not expect it to break due to faulty design/build? Cost to rebuild a one cylinder Yanmar Diesel about AU$2800, cost to buy a single cylinder Diesel about AU$3000, cost to buy a Chinese knock off motor about AU$500 plus 100 to have an adapter made up.
Your mean Communist China? You know the one that is pouring a huge percentage of it's GDP in to weapons and sells them to rouge states? They have at least 50,000 industrial spies in this country. I try to spend my money elsewhere. Those people need to be free in China but the world greed has propped up the cruel government. The gov that kills thousands of coal miners in China because the 150 dollar death benefit is cheaper than safety,
They brake down before you can get them to the job site....
Later on in the day, after I wrote that, I was thinking, hmmmm, I think I stuffed up, but Sumitomo is Japanese. Rn'R.
China has a few quality products. Aside from that, they unload mountains of government subsidized cheap crap upon the world: This is what I comes to mind when I think of ''made in China'': :throwup toys containing lead poisoned pet food gypsum board made from industrial waste that leaves houses uninhabitable electronics devices that don´t last or just don´t work and the latest Why the hell would I want to try my luck with their cheapo equipment deals??
don't forget the plastic laced baby food or the drill bits that bend,the 15mm spanner that fits an 17 mm nut ,I recently bought an automatic level and most suppliers offered a cheap Chinese unit but wouldn't recommend then for any serious use, so I bought a Swiss made one.
Agreed that much of the Chinese made stuff is junk. Unfortunately, top quality products often are much more expensive so we end up buying the Chinese stuff. Two weeks ago I needed to buy a 36 mm box end/open end wrench. The made in China version was $12.95. A name brand (not sure where it was made) was $200.00. Which one would you have bought?
i feel it is wrong to support china when in doing so we ruin america. china is going to bury us and we are digging the hole. and i, for one, am sick of it.
The other day I went out to get a pair of vise grips, two types on the shelf, the original made in US of A and the Chinese one for half plice. Seeing as I like tools to last a lifetime and beyond I went for the :usa one. However I read a while ago that the vise grip company in the US is going OS, with the resulting loss of jobs. Why? Because we live in a short term view society. However in order to build my ex thumb I needed a couple of big drill bits and got a couple of cheapies that are crap but do the job..........just and yes they are bent but can be straightened easily enough. Far as China is concerned, what do we do? Lock them out of the world economy or try and build up a big middle class that perhaps eventually will demand more rights? Don't know if this is working as China seems to have really rich people and really poor people and now has money, manufacturing capacity and technology.
I think the lead paint in the kids toys and the tainted baby food recently. As well as all of the cheap tools made in china, people purchase them because they are cheap and gripe when they don't last like the expensive tools. Just my too cents.
There certainly is no comparison between the name brand vise grips and the Chinese knock offs. I don't mind paying double for quality tools, but when the good quality stuff is ten or twenty times the price of Chinese tools, who can afford the good stuff? Maybe the North American and European (and Aussie) manufacturers need to look at ways to become more competitive. Much of the retail price difference between the Chinese and non-Chinese tools happens because of the outdated wholesale and retail distribution system that we have in North America. Places like Harbor Freight and Princess Auto bring the stuff in from China in large quantities and sell it cheap. In contrast, name brand tools can pass through two or three middlemen, and each one marks up the price by 50 or 100%.
Me makes 2! :usa
I'm afraid the buzz about this 'reputation' thing with China hits again. Check out this news: http://ph.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090528/tap-health-china-safety-clothing-toys-8d4ea94.html They're getting it hard for themselves.:beatsme www.komatpillar.com
They make 50 cents to a dollar in China, no health-care, worker comp, insurance, property taxes, currency manipulation and a host of other things. We will compete how, by living like them? I don't touch that crap until it's not made here. As people buy more crap from China the less that will be made here. I just paid 550 for a Titan tire vs 350 for Chinese crap. Get kill in a Chinese mine and you family gets about 100-150 bucks and they kill the poor people like flies there because it's cheaper.
you got ripped at 12.95 http://www.bostonindustrial.com/36cowr.html Proto & Sears 85-90 bucks. That is what I would have bought. Then when I die I can leave it to someone. Look on ebay and see scaffold frames going dirt cheap. All made in China. Good-bye scaffold made in the USA. Chinese stuff is about 25-30% of the price.
Now you understand the answer to your original question. If they can make / build it right for thier own use / consumption what hell chance does the rest of the world stand of receicing it fit for purpose.
Yeah, the guys here explained it well. Chinese suppliers had asked me the same question before and hadn't found an answer. Well, for now it's clear as crystal.. The problem was exposed. www.komatpillar.com
If it works for them, thats their issue. If it works for you, its your issue. Look at LiuGong. Their wheel loaders are Caterpillar design. The Caterpillar machines with those designs were built in China, contracted to LiuGong. And while we're on the subject... Why do almost all Chinese loaders seem to have the prefix"ZL..."? Is it just me or have you noticed as well?
Chinese diesels into the US http://www.pollutiononline.com/arti...-Clean-Air-Lawsuit-Against-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO
I cant say I have noticed, but do those marked as such have the "Z" bar linkage on the bucket and could it be that "L" stands for Loader when translated from Chinese
One reason I hate it is that most foreign jobs either arent around in 10 years, or they have quit making parts. GENERALLY, most big named brand stuff you can find parts for it. It might be through the dealer at a heck of a price but parts you need can be had
I think that's another problem with equipment made in China. You can't easily find parts for it. And it's not easy to change the parts with other brands. I had accompanied my sister on the market yesterday, and we have passed by electric pianos for sale. They are very cheap, ranging from 37 USD to 125 USD. When we had asked why it's so cheap, since my sister is a pianist, the lady said that the pianos are made in China and they're disposable. It means that once a key or a part of it malfunctioned, you cannot find parts to replace it, or making it useless.. So, all you got to do is dispose it and buy a new one. That's why they're cheap...:beatsme www.komatpillar.com
Safety issues are the controversies common to Chinese products, :cool2 But there are also famous brands like XCMG, LIUGONG, HC, and Feeler, going up the market. Japan-made products are the most common in Asia like Tadano, Sumitomo, Komatsu, Hitachi, and Kobelco among others.
Hey now - I think some of you guys are being a little too hard on the Chinese machines. Just look at the attention to detail, for instance, on the seat fabric label from my new Chinese excavator.
Yeah I've heard a lot about Tadano cranes, and Liugong of China is coming up. Special tool, the words on the picture aren't clear. I know that not all Chinese products are substandard, some of them are indeed of good quality. But it's the impression they've got because of so many news on their imported products. Name it, toys, foods, baby's milks, home utensils, have some minerals that are not supposed to be present.. They just have to prove otherwise to change this impression. www.komatpillar.com
As komatpillar said, the pic is a bit small... But if the post was sarcastic, I've gotta interject one thing here. I was in China this summer and was searching (explicitly) for the "poor translation" signs. From the moment I stepped off the airplane in Shanghai to the moment I stepped back on the airplane, I had my eyes peeled for every possible example I could use. What I found was startling (to me) -- technical translations were spot on. Anything that involved history, instructions, technical documents, anything "educated", really -- was perfect. The stuff that was weird and non-sensical was, incidentally, commands or suggestions. Stuff we take for granted like "Stay off the grass" would make no sense (in Chinese it'd be fine, of course, but in English it'd be the crazy stuff we see online). So the question I always had was, why is it the simple (literally one-word, sometimes) stuff that can't get translated?
From what I know, they translate each of the Chinese characters to its corresponding English word. They have Chinese-English dictionaries, and usually they use it to translate Chinese sentences to English, - word for word, making it nonsensical, because one Chinese character sometimes is already a translation of two or more English words. It is also the same with translating English to Chinese. What people do is translate each English word to its Chinese translation basing on the dictionary. And it makes no sense or produces a different meaning to them.. It's vice versa, But as you said, there are already too many Chinese who can speak really fluent English. www.komatpillar.com
Chinese Equipment You know these feelings are exactly what went on with the Japanese machines in the early 1980's. EXACTLY..Ok Ok...so been in this business too long. If you look at Cat, most of their machines are made outside of the US by Shin Cat Mitsubishi, or Mitsubishi Cat if we discuss the forklifts. Their TLB..yup...factory in S.C....complete frame assemblies from Mexico roll by my house in Houston every day and more. Terex..German, and English machinery, Deere- Hitachi,,, Case, Owned by Fiat and Japanese Excavators, Brazilian Motor Graders, and more. Like it or not, the imported machinery is here to stay. FYI. LiuGong...Yup..once build under license to Cat...and Case! They also use U.S. made Cummins engines, brake components, accumulators, Italian hoses, Kawasaki hydraulics, Kayaba cylinders, Texaco and Mobil oils. They also OWN 49% of.........ZF power train component factory in the asian market. Support in Houston. Sany uses Roxrouth hydraulics, Kawasaki pumps in some applications and Cummins engines.Support in Atlanta XMG similar to Sany. Support in New York Let's face it, the construction industry is now controled by imported machinery. Who and how well the companies support the machinery is what is important. It really is hard to call stuff Junk..if it uses the same components as most other more well known equipment. My two cents.
The Japanese did export poorly made products after the Second World War. But by the 1960s, and increasingly thereafter, "made in Japan" became synomymous with quality. The Chinese stuff is another story. And I don't think that "junk" is too strong a word for much of it. We all are familiar with substandard tools and other Chinese products that perform poorly - if they work at all. Dealers here on the prairies are bringing in small Chinese crawler dozers that make 1930s Cat products look advanced. They also sell cheap Chinese loaders. I'd rather spend the same money on a well used Cat or other major brand than on any new Chinese product.
The label reads: Seems perfectly clear to me. :cool2
why didn't they just leave the squiggles and pictures of houses ,if they did we would probably understand it just as well.
Anything from China that I've had to use is inferior, an example, I had a US made thermos for 20 years, it didn't break it just wore out still keep the coffee hot two days later now one can only buy a China one, Coffee only warm 6 hours later,broken tooth when the spanner broke, boss brought a new spade to clean the tracks just bends made in China, boss brought Black cat ripper boots broke 5 by lunch time made in China I've never broken a Cat one the list goes on It annoyes the hell out me when we don't have a choice to buy the goods from yesterday, I don't mind paying for quality
An agent for a scrap buyer here, also sells Chinese 4 wheel motor bikes, so back when scrap was worth something, we did a deal on our scrap for a little 4 wheeler and some cash. We had a Yamaha 4 wheeler that we had worn out, so we thought we would try one of these Chinese ones. When we first got it, the carby kept leaking all of the petrol out on to the ground, so we got that fixed, but after that, I don't think it would have done twenty kilometres and three of the four front wheel bearings totally collapsed. When that happened, we just parked it, but the other day while it was wet, the boys got it out and pulled the front wheels off. The bearings are just a normal sealed ball bearing that presses in each side of the hub, the mind boggles, that they fell to pieces so quick. I bought some new ones from our bearing supplier, so we will see how they go, they are probably 'Made in China', too. The steering and suspension joints are all sloppy and the rack on the back has broken because the tube steel it is made of, is so thin and like I said, I doubt that it would have travelled twenty kilometres. It is just a case of, you get what you pay for. Quite a few companies are importing Chinese wheel loaders into Australia now. One of them is called a Ranger loader and it is manufactured by the Shandong Lingong Construction Machinery Co. Ltd. A group of business men formed a company and are importing and selling these machines through the agricultural dealer network around the country. This machine isn't a bad looking machine and we were wondering whether one would be all right for a stockpile machine in our yard. A fairly large dealer, not that far from us sells them, so after sales service should not be a problem, but it is all the little things. I have been told that none of the hydraulic hose fittings are compatible with any of the common fittings and as it has been said here before, how good is the quality of the steel used in these machines, I keep thinking of our motor bike experience. A mate of mine was telling me yesterday that another Chinese brand wheel loader sold here, has been having over heating problems and one that he was looking at, the fins in the core of the radiator were starting corrode, as if a poorer quality copper had been used and it was still a new machine. Once you do buy one of these machines, it will loose nearly all of it's value, because it will be very hard to sell secondhand, so I think you have to be prepared to drive it till it drops. At this stage, I think we will opt for a secondhand Komatsu. Japan went through the same thing, the quality of their early equipment was questionable, but it improved as time went on. We bought a Furukawa loader quite a few years ago and it gave us 11,000 hours of trouble free service, it was one of the best machines we have ever owned. It seems that a lot of the major manufacturers are becoming or are already involved in China, so I think in time we will see some very good machinery come out of there, but as the quality improves, so will the price. Rn'R.
On the other hand there is a lot of stuff that is made in China that is quality stuff, reason being that quality controls are in place. Things like gaming consoles are a good example, Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft would not manufacture in China if the quality was not up to their expectations. The other day I bought some workpants, both King Gee and Hard yakka are now made in China but at least I managed to buy some Aussie work boots.
I'd take one of these Chinese loaders only if they sold for a penny a pound. That way one could turn it in at the scrap metal dealer when it fails and one can't get parts. Even if parts are available, do you really want to spend your money and time on parts and repairs? I would spend my money on a used Cat or other quality loader. The thirty year old Cat 966C I bought last year is still an amazing machine. Since buying it, it has put in hundreds of hours of hard work and not missed a beat. Tough as nails - or - what's tougher than nails? An amazing machine at any rate.
Many good posts. For me it go's way deeper than poor quality much of the time. China is a communist country. Communism has always been an enemy to the free world and the USA. They have provided companies a place to have their goods produced by near slave labor rates then import them at huge profit as the savings in costs have never been fully passed on to the consumer. The only good I see they are polluting their country at a never before seen rate. I do look at the country of origin label. I nearly always will pay extra for "made in the USA"!
:ban:ban:ban:ban Lets not get political shall we. I understand that you would pay extra for the 'made in USA' label, but what about a USA brand made in China? For example, Caterpillar. And you might think that its a good thing that they are polluting their own country, but how would you feel if you lived there?
This is an aside, but its kinda funny and along the same vein... I was watching the military channel years ago, and this guy was recounting his D-Day. He and another fellow were walking through a meadow. Artillery was firing in the distance when shells started falling nearby. Before they got a chance to run for cover a shell hit the ground immediately in front of them, bounced, rolled between thier feet and rolled away. Ashen faced, they looked at one another and exclaimed,"Must be Czechoslovakian!" I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same...
Parts? Availability of parts can be another issue with offshore brands.
this is a test thats all
hay guys I got 4 xcmg cranes and they where grate 3 QY50K and 1 QY50B
:usa:usa:usa me too I look at every label on everything even the fruit!
Big difference in tools and heavy equipment.That 12 dollar wrench will not slow your job down unless you only have one in the tool box..But I think you have to have Chinese wrenchs to work on Chinese equipment.
Communist Country??? That is old news and being outdated every day as the Chinese Government continues to divest themselves of state owned companies. You go over there and the number of private stores and enterprises is amazing and exploding. They now ask "How is it that we are becoming more Capitalistic and you are becoming more Communistic?" Better look in our own back yard before posting labels. Quality is being changed at an ever increasing pace at all levels. If you have not visited there, try it. Don't want to buy foreign? Do you shop at Wal Mart. After the father died, those "Made in America" signs died and their profets have exploded. This whole discussion is back to the early 80's with the Japanese Junk and now they are the standard of the MANY industries. Many of the newer Chinese construction products are at Least 25% less than comperable more known brands and they do the same work. Parts issues are an issue with some brands, but not so much with the brands that are investing and hiring in this country, such as Sany and LiuGong. Check the parts that go into these machines..not four wheelers and toys, you might just be suprised at the content of these machines. My two cents.
Drag1line, what areas of China have you visited?
Dragline, you certainly make some valid points. Even the largest brand name manufacturers now have many of their products made in China. If they manage to enforce quality controls, the products are good. However, IMO at least, much of the stuff coming in from China still qualifies as junk. The scandals in recent years involving substandard and even dangerous Chinese products make a long list. Another issue - and probably a more imporant issue - is that North America has lost millions of jobs to China and other nations that pay their workers very little. The effects of this can be seen in the NA unemployment rate, low wages in many industries, the crash in home prices as unemployed people can't afford mortgage payments, and the overall weak economy in areas of the continent that depend on manufacturing. The downward spiral of the American economy and parts of the Canadian economy (Ontario, Quebec, etc) is alarming. We need to bring jobs back to this side of the Pacific in order to enjoy a prosperous future. Otherwise, much of North America will become more and more like places such as Detroit and Elkhart, Indiana. As a homeowner, I certainly don't look forward to house prices dropping to $10,000 or less, or to huge rollbacks in wages. At least that's the way I see it.
Amen Brother But when I see Jeep Cherokees in Hiroshima at $32,000 due to "Inspections" and the same thing here is $18,000, and that our rice is "Not to Japanese Taste", but their rice is 10x the cost of ours due to protecting their farmers, Brazil that outright bands outside competition due to protective tariffs and so on, and yet we STILL do business with them. Yes boils my blood, but is reality. One big question, if outside competition stopped, how much would you be willing to pay for electronics, Toys, cook wear, ect. Wal Mart would fail tomorrow if imports stopped. How long would it take to ramp up production here...Note,,Politically correct includes Canada in "here". The other costs that are not so important in Canada, where they have the "English Rule" on lawsuits, is the cost of liability for EVERY THING in the US. That is one reason that Medicine in Canada is less expensive than here...something that Obama did not address...another subject!! Personally, I blame the politicians for this. On the construction machinery, as I posted earlier, most of the "Make it go" components are from the EU or North America, but lower cost labor and steel make the difference. In Hiroshima, a 30 minute taxi ride in a Toyota was $25 and the same ride in the same Toyota is $3.10 in a city in China. Off my soap box!
ALL electrical cords have a tag attached stating: " this product contains lead-wash hands after handling ". Why are these items being imported to poison us adults too? Less SS and pension retirement to pay out? Is most EVERYBODY too busy to notice this or do not care? Commonplace to hear retail sales are down. I wonder why. Paki sourced Home and Gardens brand bath towels that lose color dye -unheard of. WHY are most Orient/Asian imported product prices , common everyday items found in local retail stores, still the same or higher as if manufactured domestically ? Lionel train of late is one example. As always most of the stuff in a box has an odor. Most is tacky looking junk. There are exceptions. Have bought imported mfg. items over the years to be of excellent value and quality. Broke down and bought the yellow HF scaffold. Was 170.00 but will pay for itself DIY house projects. Hurts to perch on ladder rungs for hours. Someday these will be a great garage sale find. Ridgid Tool 9.6v screwdriver kit-discontinued, 50.00-a super tool Sony items from the 70-80's. Look and work like new. IBM refurbished PCs- OOPS-One night dropped the ThinkPad 4' onto a concrete floor- it was and is unfazed by that. Schwinn bikes of late-almost as good as old ones. Same old deception and greed from the past fostered on newbees who think upscaled everything is better. Hitech SUV crossover whatevers still roll over like covered wagons of the 1800's.
i can't imagine why ANYBODY that carries a union card....would even consider buying, or operating a product from across our borders.
So day, can you help this union stick puller out? I need to know what to tell my dispatcher. Is it alright that I run any at machine, or are the Japan/europe built machines out the window? What about Komatsus built in Tn? I gotta know so I can tell dispatch where to send me. Hope they understand and dont kick me back to the bottom of the list.
i guess that's a question you have to answer for yourself...i would think that you'd watch out after your own...and those of any other union trade....i could be wrong though
This thread has nothing to with unions. Continue along this line and the thread will be closed and I will have to revisit our union topic policy. I've about had enough.
Guys, Great thread, although as others have mentioned a bit political towards the end. Here's my 2 cents. As many have already mentioned, there's a lot of every day products we already own that may say "Made in XXXX", however in reality they are only assembled in that place and components come from all over the world with a great deal from China. Off the track of machines for a sec, I bought a brand new, Chinese built off road buggy a couple of years ago. Apart from needing to go over the whole thing with some spanners and some locktite, the buggy is well designed and constructed. When I searched for info on the buggies, I found out the US is one of the largest markets for Chinese built buggies/ATV's in the world. The chinese built off road stuff does have a good wrap in the US with many on forums providing great reviews. Ironically, it's easier to buy after market performance parts for a Chinese bugggy out of the US than it is in Australia! Not everything built in China is of poor quality. Back to machines. I've often wondered why we don't see more chinese made heavy equipment here in Oz. Having searched the net, I have seen many Chinese manufacturers that do produce it. I'd imagine that much heavy equipment manufactured in China is actually used in China every day and is probably very capable, reliable and would be able to match the big names. In Oz I have noticed that many importers are now bringing in smaller tractors and farm attachments. Whilst the tractors do seem to be for smaller acreage (What we'd call a hobby farm) they seem well suited to their intended purpose. I know people who own chinese tractors and say they are great value, reliable little machines. 30hp 4x4 tractor with ROPS FEL & 4 in 1 for around $16K AUD brand new is not terrible money at all. It'd be interesting to see how heavier chinese equipment would go, particularly in everyday use earning $$$ for its owner....
My complaint about Chinese products is related to wages and middlemen. The Chinese workers are paid far too little, and the middlemen take far too much. If I can avoid it I buy first world parts. If first world is too expensive I will buy Chinese, but only from the contacts I use who do not extract a huge profit. The difference in prices is mind boggling. The local rip off diesel shop wants 150.00 for a SINGLE Deutz injection pump but a Chinese plunger/barrel assembly from my importer cost me all of $1.90. I purchased a hydraulic hose crimper for 250.00 that does the job as well as the overpriced Parker or Weatherhead units. If the US government would finally shrink domestic production could compete. However, the greedy oligarchs do prefer Chinese slave labor and obscene markups over quality, economical American made products.