Hi! Im intrested in finding out why you americans dont use a rototilt on your exavators? i have never seen one in the US but its rare to see an exavator without a Rototilt here in northen europe. For you that does not know what a "rototilt" is, its a Tool between the bucket and the crane that allows you to spin the bucket 360 degrees and can tilt the bucket. Its very useful when building roads, digging pipes and everything else you use the exavator for... So why dont you use it?
I personally would love to have one. There just aren't enough dealers around that support them. Look incredibly useful
America is a big place and we have lower standards in a lot of ways than Northern Europe does. Many excavators do rough work where a rototilt would get in the way. The place I tend to see them is on county highway department machines, that do the kind of work that can really use one (and where the budget is less of a priority).
I have asked this same question many times. I think these are the best attachments out there for an excavator. I believe one of the biggest draw backs for them is the price. I don't know what you would pay for one in Europe, but I priced one out for a Kubota KX121-3 and it came out to over $17000!!! That is a little too steep for me! Also, like JBibson said another drawback it the lack of a dealer support structure in the United States.
I would love one, but on a machine my size and with the work I do it would never stand up to the abuse.
Here is a question for you, why don't many machines in Europe get thumbs put on them? I think a rototilt would be useful for a lot of utility applications, but not only is there not many dealers for them, they are really high priced imo
because they make you hand dig around any utility's anyway. Doesn't really pay to own one.
The Helac tilt units are popular here, but even those tend to be used only in landscaping and grading applications. It's just a different world, with different people and different work. I know in Europe rubber tired excavators are very popular, here you almost never see one, they just don't work for us.
I looked into one a year or two ago, retardedly expensive, poor attitude from salesman, wouldn't match up to my buckets. But if I ever win the lottery will defiantly look at one again.
Yair . . . Talking to a bloke with a few excavators and asked him about the applications here in Australia ( I know little about excavators) he reckoned that at one stage you could get a premium on the hourly rate but not so much these days. In his market you were just expected to have one. In other words if you don't have one there is no job . . . he did point out that if you were bidding work and did not have tilt and twist you were pizzing in the wind and would be completely uncompetitive. Cheers.
True comment Scrub: The larger excavators-20-25-30-35 tonne that you see on all the roadworks(Bruce Highway North of Gin-Gin & South Sth-Gympie road works, this is a piece of gear that is as much a must have as a batter bucket. The price for a smaller machine ,say2-3-4-5-8- tonne to have one is probably not warranted,but a LOVE to have piece of gear. Have you got Saturdays lotto numbers by any chance ?
Snowcraft97: Take off your $400 sunglasses and you might see the world we live in. They are 22222222222222222 EXPENSIVE 2 Buy,sort that out and you might be right for a $900 pair. Good luck with that.
You have seen answers from Americans.......seriously, rather than make a machine more versatile by spending money on a specialized attachment, we will try to figure out how to do the work with 5 pieces of equipment and brag we saved money! I travel to Europe and am amazed by the specialized attachments that are considered normal in Europe. People here see pics and videos, say how great that would be, and absolutely blow a gasket over paying for it. Different market, different ways of doing things.
Speaking of different ways of doing things, how many youtube videos have I watched where they use 2 mini excavators and a dumper to move a pile of whatever just a short distance? It could easily be done with a skid loader or a compact track loader just as fast if not faster. Doesn't sound like we Americans are using more pieces of equipment here to me? I can't say as though I have ever heard of someone not getting a excavating job because they don't have a special twisty bucket to do it with, I think most times as long as whoever is low bid they don't care what its done with.
Yair . . . movindirt I think you exactly nailed it. On many jobs twist and tilt will out produce a standard bucket by a large margin, in some markets it is getting to the stage where a machine is uncompetitive with a standard stick. Garrie Denny Can't help you with those numbers mate. (big grin) Cheers.
we don't have thumbs as we don't really need them and they would get in the way
Snowcraft, I think they just never caught on. A lot of the old men who started on the old cable machines were tickled pink just to have a hydraulic machine for working around utilities.
It is really funny to see the answers a lot of guys give on here . And judging by the answers I can pretty safely say that they haven't run them and are just making assumptions . I bought a new 29 tonne zero swing excavator about 8 months ago with one here in Canada and cannot say enough good things about it . Such a time saver ! Incredible for grading , demolition , clearing etc . I wouldn't equip every single one of my excavators with one but I will always have a few from 5-30 tonnes equipped with rototilts . Sure they are pricey , but looking back now and knowing what I know now , I would pay twice as much no doubt for mine . As for the guy who said they can't take the abuse , that's what I thought until every excavator I saw in Sweden had one . Sweden is all rock . Talked to the operators and some of the units where on there 2nd and 3rd machines ( 15,000 hours ) with out a rebuild or any major repairs .
Whats the ballpark figure for how much one cost for a 30 ton machine?
As for the guy who said they can't take the abuse. That would be me, and I stand by my original statement. I have been around them and even ran a few. I don't discount there usefulness. 90% of my work requires bucket & thumb.
I can go back to the days of excavators without anything on them but a standard bucket and that's what you used for everything. Then different sized buckets were made and the quickhitch was developed, if you didn't have one then you didn't get the work. Tilt mud/batter buckets became the rage, now they are like a## holes, everyone has got one. Some have gone a little further and some got tilt hitches and all the nay sayers said they wouldn't last/ to expensive etc but have a look which excavator stays on site the longest. I see Rototilt as another step in the evolution of excavators and may become the norm rather than the exception just as all the attachment I've listed above.
Yair . . . Tones. Well said. I have been expressing the same sentiments but you put it so much better. As I have always said forums such as this are interesting in as much as folks can get an understanding as to how things are done in other places. I find the industry inability to justify tilt and twist in the American market quite amazing . . . they seem to be even running pin on buckets in many cases. I was watching an artist on a Kobelco recently on the Gold Coast and over a half hour period he might have on two different buckets, a ripper and then grab the trench roller and pack a bit of back fill for the boys. Bulk production baling is about the only place down there you see a pin on bucket. There is no doubt some of the folks on here are artists judging from the posted pictures of their work but in a competitive environment unless they upgraded with attachments they wouldn't get a job. The other interesting thing is thumbs and they seem to be pretty much a US thing . . . I note one poster upthread reckoned he needed a thumb for 90% of his work. I have mentioned thumbs to one bloke I know in the excavator game and his comment was they were "neither your arse nor your elbow and were a half baked waste of time" (to use his words) if he needs one he clips on a proper grapple . . . with tilt and twist . . . and does the job properly. Cheers.
I have to say I agree with you, but say I am doing tree clearing 90% of the time, well then a $10k thumb works just as good as a $40k rototilt and grapple setup doesn't it? And if I am ripping out the stumps with the same machine how much breakout force am I going to lose with the extra length and weight of the rotator? It definitely has its place, but there are still a lot of applications where it wouldn't save much time or add to much production in my opinion.
Yair . . . Gotcha movindirt. I understand where you are coming from. I just comment out of interest and pass on stuff I hear and see. As others have commented different machines and methods are used for essentially the same jobs in different areas, there is no right or wrong way, it's what is cost efficient in your environment. Cheers.
I have one on each of my excavator including my mini. Couldn't live without one now. Expensive as heck but worth it in my humble opinion and Yes I am American...
Eat more Macadamia Nuts, youll feel better.
Know where I can find some of those delicious little buggers GD ? I hear they are rare ......and so good .....
movindirt, an outfit over here has a grab with continuous 360deg rotation and a saw. It can push over trees, stumps and all or cut em up to length and stack em, pretty much what you could do with a rototilt but without the saw on a Cat 325 and is a few years old now and has no problems. www.brennancontracting.net.au . That machine is doing landclearing most of the time I believe.
Not to mention those knuckleheads running Detroit power in the excavator .... LOL! http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/td25c/media/100_3211_zpsunyltjhf.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0 That Roto Tilt is pretty cool . Could see it being handy for sure . It would be cost prohibitive for myself . Proper positioning of machine still gets the job done as always .
Yair . . . Good one td25c. I'm not calling any one a knuckle head for running anything . . . it's just what works in any given situation. You folks just do things different and, as I have said, that is the joy of this board, it creates a place where old farts like me can come to keep our brains active and continue to learn how an industry that we once worked in and . . . dare I say? . . . Loved, is evolving. I think the demise of the concept of the Detroit was one of the tragedies of our time . . . not the engine perhaps although the sound and smell of a GM for me today is,believe it or not, quite an emotional thing. What I mean is the concept of an engine family from two cylinders to twenty four cylinders, suitable for any application from stationary generator set, marine, automotive, left, hand right hand rotation, lay them down on their side, dry sump and run with a vertical crankshaft an absolutely unique piece of machinery of which we will never see the equal. Love them or hate them they made a lot of money for a lot of people and I never heard of anyone suffering or going broke because their GM let them down. That's all. (Big grin) Cheers
Great post scrub...The first detriot /GM motor I ever owned was pulled from a dozer and placed in a haul truck, after many years of use in the truck I pulled it again and now have it set up as a generator that powers my entire farm when the power goes out which is quite often in the rural area where I live....I too am a huge fan of the sound and smell of the old Detriog without this forum I would have no insight into what other like minded people around the globe do to make a living in the dirt.....great post my friend...
Well said Scrub .:thumbsup I still use the standard pin on bucket setup & manual thumb. But at the same time, I don't change buckets multiple times during the day . Takes about 10 minutes to swap from general purpose tooth to ditching bucket . Not to big of a deal . Also on most jobs generally have excavator teamed up with a dozer or tracked skid loader . On a drainage project now in farmed river bottoms doing some erosion control & ditch cleaning . Took tracked skid loader & backhoe /combo , dump truck , and excavator . Each one has it's place . I could see this Roto Tilt being handy when in tight quarters where you cant get the machine positioned correct . For myself if I decided I had to have the bucket "tilt feature ", would probably buy an older Gradall unit . Tracked http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9603155 On rubber truck mount . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9400403
Does any one have any experience regarding swing components? Seams like working side ways might put un planed "buy engineers" stresses on components.
My excavator has a pin on bucket and manual thumb and it does everything I need it to do. I wouldn't mind a hyd thumb and quick coupler on the 321 I currently have but I've had that setup before on a 321 and the weight those components added to the end of the stick in addition to the cost isn't worth it to me. Each to their own equipment and methods. What works for many in one location doesn't necessarily translate into working for everyone somewhere else.
I really think it's funny how America/Americans are so slow to embrace technology that can make us more productive.
here in the states it's called a shovel and Exercise Doc says it's good for you! Thanks for the humor Denny. ....i could buy a mini for seventeen But then I'd be fat just want i need. ...more stuff to fix
A couple years ago I was fortunate enough to get some work where I was running a 5 tonne mini-excavator with an Indexator Rototilt, the boss told me it added $20,000CAD to the overall price but was well worth it for the golf course construction work that they did. It didn't have the proportional hydraulics that are commonly seen in Europe but it did make digging narrow trenches for a weeping tile system across a fairway much simpler as I didn't have to disturb as much turf as I would of if I had done it with a regular trenching. The only thing it couldn't do was clean out the narrow trenching bucket as I was digging in sticky Red River Gumbo. There is still a lot of work I could do without one but it could make more of a mess, cost more money, and reduce overall efficiency. I think we could see more tilt-rotators if they were produced on this side of the pond by some of the already long established bucket and attachment manufacturers. Just look at the logging industry they've been using grapples with rotator functions for many years. The big thing that interests me about what some of the tilty-rotating thingy's have in Europe is the Oil Quick option where there is no jumping out and connecting and disconnecting hoses, plus they are usually routed in such a way that they aren't hanging in harms way for guys that are doing demolition work. A couple pictures from one of those jobs I was on, the bosses sadly weren't to crazy about me taking pictures or making any youtube videos they figured health and safety was going to skin them alive or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ytTOWid_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzFNtcQBW-4
Yair . . . 245dlc Around here topsoil can be a very scarce commodity and of the applications I saw recently was a largish Hitachi scraping clean a rough and undulating hillside with what looked like about a six foot wide purpose built bucket. He was there for several days preparing for a road cut and I can safely say that no other machine other than an excavator with tilt and twist could have done that job . . . in other words the equipment provided twenty or thirty hours of specialised work where without the ability to do it the job would not exist. As have mentioned up thread I am only an interested observer but I have shifted a lot of dirt and I can see that in a competitive market the money spent on specialised tools would be recouped many times over . . . one of the posters mentioned the last machine off the job is the one that made the dollars. While we are on this subject apparently there is a small European excavator that rather than tilt the bucket has side to side articulation of boom and they just run a quick hitch and rotator on the stick. Cheers.
We do allot of stream reclamation work. And in the tight confines of these stream beds and banks nothing else will do. The quality of our work has grow in orders of magnitude by using the rotators. The added cost is a problem at first but certainly worth the expense when doing that type of work if your being graded by some state employee college grad with the piece of paper that says he knows What he's doing...I need to get a camera, note to self....anyone have experience with those GOPRO camera ? Worth the investment ? I would really like to show some of the work we do and the place we take our equipment....any input is appreciated...
Yeah I've got two gopro's don't think I'll buy another one though with how expensive they are I think the new one is around $600CAD. I think when I hunt around for another video camera I'm going to see what else is on the market but for the most part they are reliable and easy to use. http://shop.gopro.com/hero4/hero4-black/CHDHX-401.html
Don't try this at home......unless you have a tilting boom and rotator.... http://youtu.be/hheHmsfuq8E
@ PAfarmer, take a look at the chinese clones for gopro alternatives... they run about 100 USD and you can use pretty much all the gopro mounts and whatnot to position it just where you want it. the great thing about the clone cameras is you don't feel so bad when it falls off and you happen to run over it for the most part the picture quality is almost the same for a fraction of the cost! I have both of the ones listed below and they work great!! Here is the sj5000 clone on ebay, this is one of the cheaper models... they range all over the place for price depending on what you get in the package... mounts, extra batteries,wifi,sdcard,cables... http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-1080P-SJ5000-Sport-DV-Car-DVR-Cam-Action-Waterproof-wide-angle-HDMI-Wifi-/291368756871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d6ee6687 as for gopro clones there is also a 'Xiaomi yi' camera that just came out with pretty much same picture quality as the gopro hero 3 silver from what my eyes can tell it runs about 90-100 USD also.
Yair . . . As I have said, folks do things different in different places. In the link posted by BSAA65LB the machine is travelling and grading with the bucket way out on the stick . . . which I was told to never do on an excavator. I was told in no uncertain terms that the drive was only to move and position the machine all bucket functions were performed by the hydraulics. On this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbkoPmqX9A Much of the work is being done with the swing motor which I got bawled out for doing back in about 1972. What gives? Why are these actions apparently within the operating parameters of a Gradall but (I assume) discouraged on conventional excavators? Incidentally I havn't seen a Gradall here for years but judging by the Youtube clips they are common in Europe. Cheers
On the smaller minis under 10k, I do not think they would have enough side swing power to make the bucket pick up unmoved dirt or big rocks as good as the curl towards the cab would do. At least my 121-3 doesn't. Just my thought.
Gradall's are common in my area . County highway departments like them for road maintenance . The low profile boom works great when ditching under overhead utilities hung on poles . Pretty cool machines . Would like to have one in the future . Back to the video you linked ..... Now this is just my opinion .... That tracked Gradall with rotating bucket feature is pretty cool ! However ......It's not what I call efficient spreading that top dirt a few inches thick . They have to much machine for the job . I would use a small farm tractor with front loader to spread that dirt & send that big Gradall down the line on a ditching job where it belongs hogging dirt every scoop . But ... That's just me .
My understanding is that those Gradall's are in only Finland they aren't really popular in the rest of Europe likely because of the cost of importing them and meeting whatever bullsh!t safety standards. A friend of mine owns a 1986 Case/Poclain 125B excavator and while he said it's a powerful machine the boom and stick don't hold up as well as his has had some welding and fishplating likely from somebody trying to move dirt from side to side. But with that being said his Kobelco Blade Runner was built much stronger with a wider boom and stronger stick so maybe the newer machines hold up better with that side to side movement...
Scrub, As far as excavators go, operators ignored the manufacturers/dealers instructions to the contrary and kept breaking drives and swing gears, and sticks, and booms and... well you know. So over time the manufacturers, without changing their admonishments to the contrary, built everything stonger and harder to break because the customers kind of demanded it. Things still break, but today's machines are a lot tougher than they were in the eighties, I know I spent a lot of time repairing them and boxes of 7018 and sheets of high strength plate. Kinda like the logging industry, an old engineer I once talked with said there's no such thing as a safety margin when designing logging gear because loggers will always push any piece of equipment to the breaking point and then bitch it wasn't built properly. CAT somewhere around the 90's found a way to make a D5 live for a while in the woods, they took a D6, derated the engine about 5%, and put D5 decals on it. It was actually fairly popular for a time.
I for one would love to try out a tilt rotator. The biggest issues I see against them over here, are price, dealer support as has been mentioned, and the fact that it's one more item to lug along with you when you're out in the middle nowhere. I can definitely see a lot of uses for them, and can only imagine they would be very beneficial to anyone who was willing to try one out. Now, as for durability, where I am now, we have guys who could break an anvil with a rubber mallet, so...............
I would say that at least 50 percent of the work we do is land clearing and grinding and my rototilt has not failed me . Incredible for grabbing , and sorting brush and trees and feeding them into the horizontal grinder. I normally use another machine with a stump shear for breaking out and pulling stumps but when i have used the rototilt machine i notice no difference in breakout force. Mabee i sound like i am drinking the rototilt cool aid but it has no doubt made me money,completed jobs way faster then a typical machine, and gotten me jobs i never would of gotten before . If i only owned one machine i would go with a typical bucket and thumb combo , but i would not go without at least a few rototilt equipped machines in my fleet.
I think tilt-rotator's are really more for owner/operator outfits where the guy operating it is also the guy paying for it and therefore taking care of it. I do like them and I think one will be in my future.
Could have done that just as fast or faster with a dozer or a large frame ctl. Maybe its just because I have the majority of my operating in a track loader, but when I see something like that video it screams inefficient to me haha
Regarding the video of the gradall spreading topsoil, first of all that's one hell of an operator and is doing a fine job with that piece of iron. However, in the real world of bottom dollars and budgets, that could've been done quicker and cheaper using a CTL or small dozer like movindirt said. Now with that being said, my tagline is "Take what you win and run what you brung". That might have been the only piece of equipment available to do that job and they ran what they "brung".
I am dating myself, I ran 880 and G1000 gradalls as well as hoptoes, both tired and tracked for quite a few years, before the advent of joy sticks ( 3 levers and 4 pedals ) The guy in the video does seem a bit skilled, but its pretty easy to grade when running on a smooth paved surface. I don't see why one would need a rototilt on a machine that invented the concept in the first place. A chore like that around here would normally be done by someone on a grading tractor.
seems like a skip loader would have had that knocked out before the gradeall would have even got the first side of the pole done. It blows my mind that skip loaders are a west coast thing. around here you dont pave a parking lot or set a curb grade without one.
That was my point.
A good bloke on CTL would have that job done just as well in half the time and most likely half the hourly rate. However there are places for excavators with tiltrotators, digging and cleaning open drains, working in confined areas etc . A bloke I know has a Menzi Muck excavator with a tiltrotator hitch fitted as standard and that machine goes to work every day even when other machines on the same site are parked for one reason or another. Thinking outside the square and getting the jump on your opposition is never a bad thing and can make you some good coin
Sometimes. In the early eighties I worked for the first West coast importer of Japanese mini-excavators, as far as I know one of if not the first in the US. You couldn't pay contractors to try one. They laughed at how ridiculous these "toys!" were... and this was a five ton machine, though we brought in several smaller units also. He carried on believing in them only to lose the line when the factory decided to go with a "Trading company" (Anybody remember those?). He was of course vindicated as years passed and now you can't go around a block without running into one, usually small enough to "put on" not get in. What it takes here is a small number of individuals smart enough and open minded enough to see the value and possibilities in something new that will take the gamble and make it pay. Pretty soon the closeminded group are losing work constantly, so they smarten up pretty quick. Doesn't hurt if one or two of the major brand dealerships get behind something innovative also.
Thats explains quite alot... most americans complain that the rototilt is too expensive but then needs to have the exavator teamed up with a dozer or skidloader to do the same work as a wheel-exavator with a rototilt+5-10 buckets and it can move between worksites without the need of transport.
Or a backhoe... but there is also a reason why guys say backhoe's are the worst of 2 machines. haha For the price of a rototilt and all the buckets I could have a pretty nice CTL that will grade fast or faster than a wheeled excavator, what do you do when you need to get in a wet area?
Could also be due to the operator knowing how to operate a given machine in different environments . Trucking / Transport is part of the job . No big deal .
Yep. Also you can't unhook the rototilt from the excavator, put it on a tag behind my pickup and go do little grading job... Diff'nt strokes, diff'nt folks.
Well said CM . I was on a ditch job last week and while on a long ditch a feller has time to ponder & think ................ From my understanding the Rototilt seems to be made for more intricate type work similar to what 245dlc was doing on the golf course . Saves him paying an extra man raking dirt off the sod . HeavyEquipmentForums Be careful out there 245dlc & wear a hard hat for the stray golf balls . For myself I cant see ever needing such an attachment . It pretty much boils down to buy an expensive attachment or hop out of the cab to do a little hand labor .
Yair . . . Guday fellers. This is an entertaining discussion . . . most of the discussions on this board are for that matter. I'm poking my bib in again on an excavator thread, in an area outside my experience but, I think this just comes down to evolution. I wonder how many of you folks would buy a small finish dozer these days with out a six way blade? I can remember spreading topsoil on sand batters with a straight bladed little Allis that only had manual tilt. As I see it, in the metropolitan markets the industry has accepted tilt and twist and six way blades as standard. As I mentioned upthread, without a tilt and twist on the excavator or a sixway on the finish Cat. you couldn't quote competitively on bid work and unless you rates were very low on hourly hire you would find it difficult to get a job. This is not so much in regional areas of course and there is still a fair bit of older gear around. Cheers.
I'm just curious, how do you move those 5-10 buckets around to have them with you at different worksites?
I will join in here. The way I see it, it largely depends on the type of work you are doing, and the market you work in, to determine if one of these is worthwhile. I see the biggest advantage in places with high labor rates, as you are really just replacing added labor with an expensive tool. The cost of the replaced labor determines how long the payoff is on the tool. I could see these showing up on freeway projects and other high profile jobs, especially where there is limited room for additional machines. Large building sites may be another place where they make some penetration into the market. For me, I could see several places where I could use one, but not with anywhere near the utilization it would take to spend the money on one new. If there comes a deal on the used market that may do, but my small excavator is a 330 Cat, and they are pricey, especially for the limited use. I am sure that over time they will come to be accepted, then demanded more and more, but it will take time. Remember it has not been that long ago that quick couplers were a novelty that few wanted to pay for, now it would be hard to market a rental excavator without one. The other thing I think of is that having a rototilt enables one excavator to do work normally done by other machines. Those other machines may be better, like the example of the grading tractor spreading the topsoil better than the gradall in the video, but by having the rototilt, the one machine can stay busy more often, and the quickest way to improve the return on investment of a machine is to increase its utilization.
Totally agree Jerry you'd never fit one to a bulk out machine. Where they come into there own is doing final trim and or confined area work plus they are more reliable than a labourer who doesn't turn up for work.
Many owner/operator outfits on that side of the pond have a little dump trailer they pull behind their duck (rubber-tire excavator) where they park their buckets and attachments when moving from job to job.
Or unhook the rototilt & have it clean out under the excavator so some knucklehead can replace a blown hydraulic hose . LOL !
Hey 245dlc . Nice work on the golf coarse job ! Noticed the sod in the sidewalk path was pre cut . Made for a tidy job in the end .:thumbsup Have you ever thought about mounting corn planter opener disk blades on a bucket so it would cut the sod just ahead of the cutting edge of the bucket , similar to a plow . Just a random thought . http://www.sloanex.com/osmundson-heavy-duty-15-planter-seed-disc-opener-blade-for-xp-row-units.html
It wasn't my machine TD25C I'm just an operator. With that being said maybe in a year or two I could strike out on my own as for now my wife and I are working on moving somewhere a lot more progressive than this province.
A lot of rubber duck/wheeled excavator operators have a large full width bucket/tray arrangement that hooks over the top of the blade. When they get to a job just unhook and park the gear, select your tool and get to work. If there's room and you want to take your attachments with you, just leave it on the blade and swap tools as you go. This is even cooler if you have one of the oil quip type hitches where you don't need to get out of the machine to attach hydraulic attachments such as vibrating compactors and grabs. AusDave
Yair . . . A little of topic but thought this may be of interest. A different way shifting muck around a site. These trailers are common with wheeled excavators, I saw two in use on a recent trip away but I have never seen one used with tracks. Note there is no hydraulics on the tip, they just grab that piece of rope with a tooth . . . as folks have said on here different strokes. (Photo was from the net) Cheers
Well a backhoe here in sweden is diffrent, it almost comes standard with even more buckets and a rototilt (Huddig 1260C is a typical swedish backhoe) and in a wet place u use a normal tracked exavator.
This topic has jogged the old memory bank. About 30yrs ago Komatsu in New Zealand where trying to sell a PC220 that had continuous rotating dipper arm. I tried it out a machinery show and could see some good possibilities for working in confined areas. Soon after that I did a job where I had to excavate around a lot of concrete piles with a lazy cursing labour trying not to help. I got to thinking about that PC220 and how easy the job would have been with it. Many years later I saw the same machine parked in the Komatsu yard in Melbourne, Australia and it had never found a home. Wonder where it is now?
How do these things hold up in Stoney conditions or wrestling large boulders?
They perform real well and I have actually realized better wear on my rototilt equipped machines over standard fixed type bucket arrangements. You are more versatile in placement and actually manipulation and you don't force it as much as you do when using a fixed bucket. No worries with use and wear , the cost is high and a specific use is required to justify the expense. We have been doing stream reclamation all summer and could never do the quality of work required by contract without the rototilt units at the end of the stick.
Thanks pafarmer! What machine do you have it on? Any pics? How do they set the controls up?
I have them on three 2015 312E blade runners with steel tracks. I choose the 312E for there small size and maneuverability. The contracts we are presently working call for very detailed small stream reclamation work. These streams are very tight, small trout type streams that pass through rural farmland with Engineered Detaled Riprap placement, water bars etc. the controls are basic cat controls. The 3 machines were delivered setup and ready to go with the rototilt heads install, calibrated and ready to go so I can talk to how they may differ from the standard. I presently don't have any pictures to show but I can get a few for you in the next few days. I'm sure there are some on the ole Interweb somewhere. The rototilt units are very salty in terms of cost but for the work we are presently doing I could not do it without them. All that being said I got along fine without one for many many years in general contracting work. Very handy tools that allow for very detailed work that one really needs to justify very closely prior to spending the large coin on one... Hope this helps in some small way...
It helps a lot! I'm considering one in the 5 ton size. I got a price of $26k+/- to go on my Kubota 121. My Kubota salesman had never heard of them and when I showed him he quickly said it wasn't rugged enough for the work I do. I've done quite a bit of research, reading, watching videos etc and I haven't heard anything bad yet. I read somewhere that cat offers it as an option? Can't find it on the cat site though. Ultimately I'd like to have 2 buckets and a grapple, that was included in the price I got. We do a lot of grading, road maintenance, culvert installs, underground utilities, land clearing and boulder walls. Seems like it could be a great weapon for the arsenal,
The major brands of Rototilts such as Engcon etc come from Scandinavian countries where they frequently work with rocks and frozen ground. They will often outlast one or more carrier machines. I think the cost is due to the quality and durability of construction. AusDave
I agree Dave, Id love to see one up close and personal.
my wife and I just got back from vacation in the Stockholm, Huddinge? area and all I saw was wheeled excavators with rototilts. I would bet that out of 50 machines that 40 were wheeled. the rototilt buckets were so cool for the work they were doing on under ground utility's and it didn't look like any shortage of work.
The RotoTilt is an ammazing attachment. However just like other "pin Grabbers" it changes the dig, break out, and dumping potentials of the standard OEM buckets. Also the Rototilt adds a bit extra weight. The rail maintance industry prefers their machines to have these.
I've been all over Holland/Netherlands the past week and have seen numerous tilt rotators here, lots of wheeled excavators... no thumbs though.
Still sticking with over-priced product.
User experience with rototilt Go to http://www.ceforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357 for a good read about rototilt usage and other excavator mods. Eddie, the owner of the excavator in the link above, does a lot of specialised work which requires a rototilt. His work however, as you can see from his photos, is extremely precise and smooth. Definitely makes one look at the standard of your own work. There's over 300 pages to his thread which gives you a sense of how well read it is. AusDave
While i think it is a bit overpriced, it does have its advantages. Found this neet pic
I feel the need to revive this thread. I am currently trying to get into the rototilt niche, and am curious if anyone would actually recognize the benefit of having one and hire specifically because of it? Being American, all I see are standard excavators. What I dont understand, is why a grading bucket and tiltrotator, priced around let's say $40k, maybe even $50k or $60k with quick oil and a vibe plate and grapple, that can do a trench and slope or bench in one run without moving the machine, and place pipes, backfill, grade, and compact all with one machine is considered "too expensive?" A skid steer with bucket and forks, plus a vibe plate, and labor to run it, truck and trailer to haul it..... seems more expensive to me. Here's a pipeline operator, and this guys setup is awesome with pilot driving capability on his backhoe. Here's a Dutch operator's YouTube channel. She has a pretty awesome setup and literally does every job on the jobsite with her one machine. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8DKUYhMBW5Evs4eGndbl-A
Duck girl is an amazing operator. She is actually English. She operates a duck full time, but also demonstrates for Engcon at shows. I would think the way to break in to your market with a machine with a tiltrotator is to do fixed price work with it until people can see it in action and realise the time savings. You will struggle to get a premuim hire rate unless people have seen it in action. They are hugely expensive, but if you can do away with a labourer or in my case reduce a three day job to a two day job, saving hotel costs for two guys you will soon recoup the cost. Graham
Agreed. My main struggle is I would have to buy all the equipment myself and then find customers as I am basically at ground zero with no network.
An HEF deep thought …… Would have been cool as a younger feller to meet a chick in the same line of work & then end up bumping bucket's after sundown on the job site . Stuff ya think about while dipping out a pond ? Deep thought over . LOL
That was supposed to be this in gif....