Is there any wild land fire dozer operators on here? especially contract, any california, USFS, and BLM employees.
Pictures well here some pictures i took nevermind i dont know how to work it.
Check out the second red link in my signature for help with posting pictures.
picture try 2 d8 here and i think and a 7t? Millard Fire Horse fire Before after with the same 8 from a the millard Day fire and the head on the other side of those hills sorry no pics of them in action. if there busy usually so am i
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Thanks for posting. I know some of them, maybe from the top picture with the D8T
yea all that is in sothern california. i beleive it is the same company that owns those 2 in the first pic. and same one in third pic. i wish i had my camera one day in washington my captain had to climb ontop i think a 7 high track to cut a at least 26 in tree that was riding around on top the cab
That was one nice 8K I'd love to run that. I got a few pics of fire dozers I'll find them.
here is another one on the Day Fire and our crew buggy
here is another of that 8 if it works
Where's the brush guards(sweeps) over the front of the machine if there using them that much in the trees and brush????:usa
Found them
More
Good pictures. We had a grass lighting fire on the ranch one day, almost couldnt keep up with it in a dozer.
unfortunately dozers alone can barely ever keep up. or go in really rough country. but I guess fortunately cause that's y I have a job
usually the fire agency owned dozers do have them. I pictured a lot of contract dozers
Love the pics... Love the thread.... Keep posting the pictures. You can never have enough pics of dozers fighting flames. Some of the D8K's in those pics look like Walsh dozers, but I am not positive. Here are some pictures of a fire I was on last year. It burned 450 acres. 2 dozers, 1 helicopter, 1 bomber and various little red trucks running around. I will have to unpack some of my pictures and scan some in to post.:usa
where was that at?
I am not a full time firepusher. But a few years back the flax straw plant had a fire get away on them and the local fire department hired our 8H to push bales out of the way. That tractor ran 85 hours straight in those few days just my cousin and I trading off and sleeping in fuel truck.
who was the space cadet that rolled that cat off that little embankment? I bet he felt like the hero of the day.
I would have to do some searching for pics, if we have any, but over the years we have gone to many barn fires and such to help move hay out. Last one was a few years ago, huge hay shed on fire. Dad and I swaped off all night long had 15 hours on the dozer then 3 days cleaning up the burnt up mess. The one guy running one of our tankers put on over 300 miles that night hauling water(and its only 7 miles one way to where the hydrant was). Trbo
VjjR- That was a little fire we had in Tehama County, in Northern California. A guy was discing his field with an old wheel tractor and a worn out disc at 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon. The wind was blowing 25 mph and the temp was 105 degrees. He hit a broken fence post and started the fire. The majority of the fire burned on the ranch where my parents live. We were lucky enough to save some of the cattle feed and the neighbors house.:usa
I will try to post a picture or two of our dozer...on the Willie Fire, Red Lodge, MT. Photos by Terry Jones, USFS.
View attachment 17298 ...:beatsme
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Well, now that I've totaly junked this thread up, I'll try a few more..
I like the winch arrangement on your ripper. Tell us more about it. By the way, Welcome, and thanks for the pics of what you do. As far as the thread, don't worry, most of us fouled up something or another along the way.
Thanks JDOFMEMI, Sorry I took so long to get back... the winch is Braden Gearmatic GH15 equal speed hydraulic unit. The logging arch came off of an 1150 Case that we traded in for the 750c, updated to a series II with the speed n' grip, that's in the pics. We were logging some of our own timber, and had the 1150 under an EERA with BLM for fire. The 1150 did have a cab, no AC, but the design was so hard to get in and out of, we had Case replace it with an OROPS. Great for skidding, but I was getting smoked and dusted to death on the fires. JD had recently updated from the B model to the C with joy stick steer. And... I wanted hydrostatic drive for fire line work, always side casting, just push the handle over a bit to compensate... running on a bit here, I'll get to the point... Deere wanted the winch on the Case, but not the arch, so I kept it. I also wanted a ripper. Built a support on the upper links for winch. Cut off part of arch with the big pin holes, and welded the rest on ripper. Used ripper hyd. for winch and free spool via diverter valve, solenoid controlled. I guess that's about enough...by now you're...:sleeping
More Willie Fire
pic 1 is rehab. pic 2 is my dozer boss... great guy. pic 3 is our dozer on transport pic 4 is an aerial view of preplanned safety zone I started. And a question for the computer guys... when I put my mouse pointer on the pictures I post, the name and size pops up in a small text box. Does it whether I'm logged in or not. Doesn't happen on any other pics... just mine. Any ideas??
I like that 750 with the winch on the ripper.
where in Tehama im actually looking to maybe move up there
How often do you contract guys get called out to fires?
Vjjr- We usually have a fairly active fire season beginning around July and going through October. The last couple of years it has been fairly quiet while the rest of the state has been active. We have some good HFEO's with Cal Fire up here that makes sure that the list gets rotated and called out. As a result there is a lot of contract dozers in our county and it takes a while to get through a list rotation. If it is a calm year, then the list never rotated a full cycle. We are located in the south part of the county near Corning. What type of dozer do you run?
I would love to get my D6D on a fire job... Anyone know the procedures for getting signed up with the fire service? Either Oregon, or Federal? I will sign up my cat and lowboy if there's an opportunity! Thanks for the help. www.petersfamilytrucking.com
Fire Dozers etersfamilytru http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/nrcg/index.html Try this link, if it works, scroll down to Contracting For Fire on the left side of the page and open it... Yes, the link seems to work, but it's for Region 1 ( R-1 )... You're in Region 6 ( R-6 )... pretty sure. You'll have to navigate after you open Contracting For Fire. It might be easier to call the FS or BLM, but some of the stuff has to be done on line... OCR
Great pictures everyone, thanks for posting and keep them coming in. Great to see some views of other parts of the world. Heres a couple from the bottom of the world; New Zealand.
Amazing, it worked, heres a couple more, if only to show you boys in the US where the other side of the pacific ocean ends. Cheers Merv :drinkup
Is the dozer thats on it's side from Ventura Co. Roger
That is a nice K you dont see very many K's in SoCal. Roger
And further west a little from D6 Merv, heres some Aussie Fire Dozers Cat D7...Alpine Fires 2003 Dresser TD 20... NorthEast Fires 2006-07 Cat D7R...off-season fire (road projects) 2008 Cat D4G...NorthEast Fires 2006-07 Cheers :beerchug Stripeyjack
Pity we don't have something like that here in dry SA. should think about doing that for our fire break season. last year we had a dreadful fire that burned for 1.5 weeks. it destroyed farmland and thousands of acres of commercial forests. If only we had had that for the dum farmer who started it. he was burning a fire break, and only had a bucket of water on standby. Love the pics. Love the last one, the small dozer on the back of an Isuzu. What is it, can't see?
Nice shots there Merv. Looks like a great place to work at. Its great to be able to work all day while taking in that kind of view. Nice little pan there, what does it carry? Stripey I see some well set up firecats there. I especially like the one with the tree pusher. idk I was told by the local cat dealer in the early 90's that they had over 300 D-8K's in their territory. I know theres not many left, most have upgraded to N's and R's, but I still know of close to a dozen close to me. I retired my last K in 2002
man those are some awesome dozers....I bet its always interesting for any/all of you guys to get the call to go to a fire.
Nice pics guys. Thanks! :drinkup How wide do you cut the fire breaks? Do you cast everything to the side the fire is on (if possible) or... :beatsme
Hi JDOFMEMI The Dozer with the scoop is a long track frame D4E and the hydraulic scoop holds 6 yards. The D4 handles it quite easily and is very handy for alot of my smaller jobs, where its easier to carry dirt rather than push it. Cheers Merv
As far as I'm concerned, the firebreak should be cut as wide as machinely possible. And then again.
Fire Dozers bear, Thanks for the interest... Almost always cast away from the direction the fire is burning. This leaves a bare (different word, but close to pun) edge if and when the fire hits it. If you cast in, you leave a big berm of dirt with grass, weeds, sage brush, etc., mixed in. If that fuel gets on fire...when the fire bumps it... it can stay hot for days... makes for a real mop up hassle. I have, on rare occasions, dozed the berm right on the fire to put it out, and that does work... You absolutely need the say so from your dozer boss before doing it... and it's rather unpleasant, even in a AC'd cab. Line width is usually dictated by fire managment... however, I've seen miles of fire; little wind, short flame lengths, pretty flat, stopped by a simple cow path/trail. In timber... well, if it's in the tops... "crown fire", and windy... the fire can be spotting a half mile, a mile, even farther, in front of the main fire. If all those 11's that were pushing together in that posted picture, had made a cat line like that before the fire, there would have been a good road and parking area for engines after the fire went through. You just can't stop them that way. Thanks bear...OCR
California Lightining Strikes 2008 Here are some pics from some of the fires in California during the Summer of 2008
anydody have cal fire dozer pics?
Welcome DG5. read all about those fires. Very scary.
Thanks Bellboy. Firecat11 do you know of anybody hiring? I just moved to your neck of the wood. I'm having a hard time finding any work.
Who actually runs these machines? Do they have staff fire-fighters with experience who do only this or do they grab whatever employee is available and end up with this?
If they grabbed an employee with no dozer experience, the fire would probably get worse if they didn't flip the dozer first. They need trained operators like Firecat and OCR who could probably tell you more about it. :usa
That first picture of the guy with the machine up on the trailer like that doesn't strike me as inexperienced at all. In that line of work and with the way that trailer is designed I'd say it's close to if not at least 10 times faster to load and unload that way. That second picture yeah, the operator may have not been the oldest or most experienced on the job but, no one here seems to know just what exactly happened there. If I remember right there's a very experienced pan operator here who rolled a machine because there was a washout or something like that he didn't see. So just because there's a picture of what looked like someone who didn't know anything, doesn't mean that's the case. Also remember sometimes those people you just grab and throw on a machine because they're available just have the knack and operate like it's second nature to them.
Please keep the pictures comming, I would love a chance at doing that.
Dozer School ddiiggy Cal Fire runs a dozer school at Ione California. Training usually happens in May of each year. Cal Fire, Kern County Fire and another different agencies send operators to instruct the new operators from a lot of different departments. I believe that if you wanted to put a dozer on contract in CA you, as a civilian might be able to attend the school at your own expense. Wild Pete
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Wild Pete! :drinkup
Not a dozer but... Up in northern Mendocino County, on Hwy 1 north of Ft. Bragg, we saw this trackhoe with a forestry tool on the stick. I think this was a camp for the Tin Can fire. Wow.
Fighting the fire is only part of it, after it's out they go back in and shread the dozer piles and put the terrain back to it's original state. I have a couple friends that were involved one with a D7 and the other with a water truck. Excellent pay, the water truck drew over $1700.00 per day don't know about the D7.
I was basically wondering how much experience their operator really gets. I didn't mean I had a problem with the first picture. That looks fine to me. :notworthy That machine just had the stencils that said it was owned by the fire dept that got me to wondering. The second picture was an accident. It happened. I have tipped over a machine or two in my day. Got stuck plenty of times and had to get help... I have not had the chance to really operate a dozer, just run it down the road and get it out of the way of something else. Dump truck, Bobcat, Backhoe, Roadgrader, Forklift; Been there done that. Grew up running lots of farming equipment, tractor and implements, loaders, mowers, swather, baler... Spent ~10 years with a volunteer fire department. Trained on everything available. Spent several summers chasing wildland fires with a truck crew. I just know it regularly doesn't work to grab an idle body and throw a tool at them. Sometimes the body is idle by choice, they may be lazy. It could be they are waiting for somebody to tell them what to do or waiting for somebody to tell them to do something. Sometimes a busy body is just that, busy. They may not be accomplishing anything. "All thrust and no vector" as I heard it said.
Looks like a feller/buncher. Saw them using one of those the year I spend logging. I wouldn't expect that would be so much usefull with a fire. Logging is another whole range of equipment to run: Dozer is familiar and used for skidding and pushing stuff around. Skidder is sort of same but has wheels instead of tracks. Had a grapple skidder around also. Log loader is kind of like an excavator, but has a whole other set of variables; Grapple and boom and log positioning... I was over on the steep side setting chokers and running the line yarding machine and decking the wood.
Hello dg5. Well, I just had a post all composed for you and something happened to my satellite connection and I lost it all... I even had a link for a fire web site... Wildlandfire.com... use Google if the link doesn't work. http://www.wildlandfire.com/Default.htm Well the link seems to work, so you might want to check it out... It's set up a little different than most, but be sure and read the FAQ section. We have our own dozer and transport under an EERA with the BLM... water tender is under the Best Value agreement with the USFS... R-1. I don't know if you want to sign your own dozer up, or work as an operator for an agency like CAL FIRE ( yes, all caps., and do not address them any other way; was CDF ), or a federal agency such as the USFS, BLM or BIA. Probably your best bet is to get a hold of some one in R-5, your region... California... they'd have a better perspective of how things work in that area. If you think I could help with any questions, be sure and feel free to ask. I know one thing... it's a lot more complicated now, then when we started. Best of luck to you... and don't get frustrated. OCR
i was at the willie concert when that fire started
Very scary. I've heard about your fires. Did you hear about ours?
Experienced operator who rolled one over....nice to see you remembered me, 95zIV! (see avatar) I can just imagine how easy accidents like this could happen on a fireline, everybody in a hurry, dust and smoke and fire nearby, and vision hampered by wearing protective gear...not to mention, it's hard to concentrate when you are hot! Add all this to the hazards present on a regular clearing job....I hope the guy was ok! Alan627b
Well that was a unique coincidence, cat 385, I here Willie is coming back for another concert this summer... but it didn't wait for him this time... this one's called the Cascade Fire... and it looks to be pretty nasty... don't know if they can even use dozers... at least not for awhile any way. This info below was copied from the Northern Rockies Coordination Center... I'm guessing that's ok with HEF... :beatsme Cascade MT-CNF-000505 Type: WF Start: 07/26/2008 1415 Cause: U Priority: Overhead Team Name: Stockwell/Kuntz Organization: Unified Command Local: GACC: 1 Size: 1,000 ACRES % Cnt/MMA: NR % Est Contain: NR Latitude: 45° 10´ 24" Longitude: 109° 26´ 22" Location: 12 miles west of Red Lodge MT $$ Costs to Date: NR Structures Threatened: 10 OUTB , 30 PRIM Structures Destroyed: NONE Resources Committed: Total Personnel: 34 Report Date: Jul 26, 2008 2130 Agency CRW1 CRW2 HEL1 HEL2 HEL3 ENGS OVHD CNTY 0 0 0 0 0 18 12 PRI 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 USFS 0 0 0 1 0 2 7 Significant Events: Evacuation of hikers recreation residences and campgrounds in the West Fork of Rock Creek to the Timber Crest Girl Scout Camp. Helicopter evacuations of 3 hikers took place Remarks: This drainage received damage due to wind event in November 2007 resulting in a large fuel load The West Fork road is a single lane poor egress and access and is a dead end Observed Fire Behavior: Active Crown fire with flame length 50 to 200 feet There was spotting 1/2 mile ahead of the fire. The fire is burning in heavy blowdown Planned Actions: Continue with suppression activities and provide for firefighter and public safety Inbriefing of Bennetts Type 1 Team scheduled for 1700 on 7/27 One more copy from Wildlandfire.com Re: MT-CNF-Cascade Bennett's Type 1 Team in briefed today at 1700, last estimated size 3800 acres, the column is very visible via satellite - 5 summer cabins and one outbuilding destroyed, was spotting 1/4 to 2 miles ahead of itself this afternoon... This probably should be moved to the Major Incidents thread - it'll be burning until the snow flies... Notice it's up to 3,800 acres... and take note of " was spotting 1/4 to 2 miles ahead of itself this afternoon... " This could a very significant event to say the least. Note: every thing that's been copied and pasted is in italics and unmodified. OCR Note to Mods: This post might be too long... or coping and pasting might be inappropriate... if so, please delete.
i was working at a mine in nye montana,we were on our day off so we headed to the willie concert,off in the distance you could see a little bit of smoke then what seemed like one min.all you could see was smoke.they were thinking about evacuating red lodge but never did.where we were any way,i talked with the fire helicopter crew said they were on buy the hour at a cost of 7000.00 per hour.it was very dry that year i was starting little fires just from the sparks of the teeth on the 375 i was running.
cat 385, From what I here... preparations are being made for the possible evacuation of Red Lodge right now. OCR
It's amazing how dry it is out west...I don't know how you can get fires like that stopped at all. The weather sure is screwed up...you get drought and fires out there while we in the midwest get rain and flooding. Just last night it rained 6 inches, put the creek out of its banks, and I've got water in the basement.
Now remember, things like the SR-71 was years ahead of its time and began as the YF-12A that was built in the 1950's. It is usually many years before the public knows about any new weapon system that the military has. And long before the military gets that weapon it is tested. And how convenient it would be if a new system, can do what the global warming climate change crowd want. To make it apear we have a major climate problem. Then it all plays nicely into the propaganda on TV and news. They keep inventing new ways to take more of your hard earned $, Seattle past a .20 a bag law, so if you go to the store if you need a bag it'll cost ya. http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002163.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1281146.html http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/af2025.html
Wasn't trying to make a statement about "global warming" or any other political issue....just thought it interesting that different areas of the country were having such opposite problems this year.
I found this video browsing youtube and thought you guys might like it. LA county fire dozers in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GGFekpK7_8
Here's one from the Telegraph fire near Yosemite... This one was rolling out...into the sun and very fast! I understand they had 63 dozers on that fire! It was funny, I'd just finished dinner in Groveland when this Cat tooled through main street (old mining town, narrow road). I was on my Harley, so I passed him about 5 miles out...my helmet strap broke so I was pulled over when I snapped the picture. Got he helmet fixed, down the road I went...another 10 miles or so I see a dust cloud on Hyw. 108...it was the same truck heading for Oakdale...every bump he hit was a new dust cloud (fun to pass at 65)!
It would be a thrill of a life time to be there doing that.
I cant remember the drivers name but that was a Pacific States truck...they stopped by our yard on their way home back to san deigo
I dont know about a thrill of a lifetime Dozer575, I have been to many fires on D6Cs,D6Ds, D4s, D9ls AD12 Fiats, 988s 920s and an array of graders tractor and trucks. The first one maybe is a short rush but you soon realise some rather big risks, such as sudden wind changes and machine failure. I say this with a little experiece as I have been caught in a summer storm with a sudden gust of wind and couldnt get out quick enough. Luckily I was OK and the machine only got a couple of electrical wires burnt. I have had several fires start in the belly plates and was also lucky to get them out. On top of all this it is very hard on the equipment, particulary dozers as the work is often done at a pace that is too fast for the track gear. I have been lucky the last 18 months have been quiet on the fire side of things but you never know what the summer will bring. Cheers.
Your right it would not be good to have it die on you with fire approaching.
Getting Burned Over Dozer575 I've only been on one major fire and very quickly learned how vulnerable you are. My Brother was an operator for Cal Fire and was burned over 3 or 4 times. On one occasion in the Las Padres Natl. Forest he was working with 2 contract dozers (No cabs and/or fire curtains) when Airco warned him to prepare to defend himself and team. They kicked it up a notch and cleared a safe area the best they could. Then the other 2 operators got in his cab in the middle of the safe area, they set the throttle at 1/2, turned the A/C on hi, lowered the fire curtains, and prayed. He said, as the fire got close the inside of the cab behind the curtains got an odd orange glow from the light of the fire, the inside got up to about 130 degrees, the engine temp gauge pegged, and the engine almost died from the lack of "O2". He said it was all over in about 1 minute but the first time it seemed like a week. The 2 contractor cats were in-op as they needed new hoses, wiring, seats and paint. His unit was prepared for fire and only needed new paint. The 50 to 60 operators that were on the Mariposa/Yosemite fire that just finished are a brave lot. To be working up there at night on that rocky ridge, I can think of nothing more frightening. I've had a D6 get out on an unseen granite knob an inch below the surface. That D6 went 10 feet sideways so quick I couldn't believe it. It was a good thing I was in the bottom of a canyon and not on some side hill/cliff like the guys on this last fire were. Yes it is exciting but you learn real quick to let the pros take the lead because they train, and train and train some more.
Telegraph Fire Photos Here is a link to a slide show that a local shot of the Telegraph/Yosemite fire. A couple of dozer shots, but mostly flames, smoke, aircraft and crews. Enjoy. Wild Pete http://www.golubphoto.com/slides/Telegraph/
Telegraph Fire Photos: This is a little off topic too... but if you watched Wild Pete's link... there was a DC-10, in a couple pics. making mud ( fire fighter lingo for retardant ) drops. On a fire last year... can't remember the name... they got a little low and slow... took out some trees with left wing and engine... . From what I read about the incident... it was about as close as you can get, and still...get. A very close call... and there's a big controversy about using it at all. OCR
Dozer accident that took Matt Will: I read about this tragic accident... the day that it happened... on a fire fighting web site I belong to. The details have always been some what vague, and, to some extent, still are. It's virtually impossible to conclude all the circumstances that surround an event like this... in retrospect. I'm sure some on this Forum know of the accident, and some might have known Matt personally. May he rest in peace. http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2008/lessons-learn/matt-will-colorado-fire-sai.pdf OCR
Just took a "tour" of the Telegraph Fire... Those fellas did an AMAZING amount of work! It wasn't what I'd expected at all...they were containing "fingers" of the fire, not just one or two defensible fire lines (breaks). Some of the dozer work on the numerous lines were over 100 yards in width! And these were common! It was just incredible to think of the coordination of all that manpower and equipment. The area, of course, is still active...probably for another couple weeks according to a safety inspector who was out looking for hotspots when we drove through. I was also surprised to see several excavators still on the site. I didn't even know they used many of those on a wildfire!
Just took a "tour" of the Telegraph Fire... Excavators aren't used very much for cutting line... although they will work to some extent... dozers are still the preferred choice, at least here in R-1. Where they really shine, is for re-hab. Some body finally figured out how well they work for for putting the berm back and spreading it out... especially if the berm is pushed up against standing timber. It's hard to snake out pushed over trees, or even plain old dirt, with out knocking down more trees... using a dozer... because you can't get on the other side of the berm. A 6-way blade and hyd-stat. or diff. steer helps... but it still won't come close to an excavator with a thumb. And a thumb is required ... won't sign you up without one... at least in R-1. We have our Cat 312 BL under an EERA with the BLM, and I did use it a little for re-hab on the Derby Fire. The biggest draw back with excavators that I see, is there walking speed, they're so slow it takes forever to get to the line... if you can't haul, and most times you can't. Once you get to the area though... you can't beat them for pulling the berm back in... and they'll work on about any sloped line a dozer put in... with in reason, of course. OCR
Just took a "tour" of the Telegraph Fire... I should have added this on edit to my last post, but my connection is slow right now, and I thought I might loose the post and have to re-type it... That's happened before... and it takes me so long to type one up... I can't always remember it... I was just curious about the first picture you posted, ****. It's hard to tell from the picture... because of the perspective... but that area looks like it has been re-habed ... just going by the way the brush seems to be scattered around.... And thanks for the pictures. OCR
Hello OCR... Very infomative about the excavators...like I said, I was surprised to see them. You cleared it up for me-thanks! As far as re-habed, I'm not sure what you mean...replanted in the past? I had a LOT of pictures-but I'm stupid-because I had my camera in the seat and it "bumped" to the low light setting (as you can see from the second salvaged photo)! Actually there were many pines that NEEDED the fire...the type (bristlecone?) that have to have fire to reproduce. My camera wasn't set right to get the contrast I was after...the long fingers of fire that they contained, with the untouched areas along side...this went for MILES! The center photo also had El Capitan and Half-Dome in the background...but like I said, I screwed up! You mentioned the Darby fire. The Bitteroot was my favorite destination for month long vacations years ago...when it was a one store, one bar town. I haven't been there in over 15 years...I can only imagine how inhabited the place is now.
Thanks OCR Thanks for posting the after accident report. While it is a terrible tragedy, I found it a fascinating read. I know when I get my old D6 74A on a sidehill much over 45% the seat covers start to disappear. I don't even want to imagine being on 85% to 90% slopes, even if you're going straight down. Too many unseen things can jump up and put you sideways so quick you can't react. As I said earlier, The wild land fire operators are a brave lot.
I too read the report with a "learning from others mistakes" purpose. What I found interesting was that in the conclusion the emphasis was placed on the lack of experience in type of an experienced operator who had already successfully negotiated a steep slope and survived. no emphasis was placed on the fact that the accident happened because the track came off. We've all been there at some point and when a track comes off you don't notice until it's too late most times. In that location too late was fatal. I'd love to know if the track seperated through somthing mechanical such as a cannon seal letting go, or if it was too loose in the first place, or just too loose for that place and time. We don't use dozers fighting fires much in my part of the world - mostly graders and backburning because the country's usually flat and open and fires often have 20 mile fronts on them and limited manpower to do anything else. On the hills we just let her go until it comes out where we can deal with it. The advantage of a population density of about 1 person/ 50 square mile I suppose.
Serious Accident Investigation Report: From the Serious Accident Investigation Report: Thanks for your input, trackfanatic... these reports are difficult to read at best... due to all the acronyms that are used by the government agencies. I don't think the second operator meant that the track actually came off of the machine... the machine went off the low side of the the slope. That's my take of what happened... and I can't say I've done a good job of making it any clearer, either... With respect, OCR
All most the same: I'm sorry, ****... I should have been more specific... it was so big... and actually included several other fire names... it just got shortened to the Derby Fire. Some times the fire managers basicaly put the names of several fires under the heading of " complex ". The fire I worked on was called the Jungle Fire, if memory serves me correct, and it was out of Livingston, MT... on the Gallatin National Forest... and it was long out when I was there... snowed most ot the time I was there. But, your little town of Darby seems to be doing fine... Darby, located on U.S. Highway 93 at the sound end of the Bitterroot Valley, is a community of about 750 people offering accommodations and access to the many recreational opportunities that abound in the Bitterroot National Forest. Sorry for the mix up, OCR
Track off............... Hi, OCR. I read that report the same way that you did, that the track had stayed on the machine but had slid partially off the bench that was being cut. The photo of the machine where it came to rest bears this out. I also noted that the bench had changed from inward-sloping to outward sloping along its length and that the dozer D4641 was on the outward-sloping end of the bench at the end of its last push before going over. Now I'm not familiar with that country or that soil type but have worked in some fairly hairy places and with some less stable soil types and done some of it a little before tilting blades were an option. With a tilting blade, there is little if any excuse or reason for getting into such a situation, bedrock or large boulders underfoot notwithstanding. If you can't make the track safe, don't go there. As harsh as it may sound, I think that operator error was at least a contributing factor here. Lack of familiarity with the machine MAY also have been a factor, but I suspect that attitude may also have had something to do with it - "You've rescued me, now I'm gonna rescue you." The report also states that immediately before the slide and roll-over began, D4641 STOPPED and HFEO#2 thought that HFEO#1 was then going to wait for assistance to rescue D4641. Quote from report: "D4641 stopped. HFEO #2 thought to himself that D4641 was going to now wait and also be pulled out by the additional dozers. Moments later the back-up alarm activated, the RPM’s increased, and the dozer’s tracks began to move. HFEO #2 observed “… the left side track goes forward and the right side track goes back. His dozer slides off the front of the mountain. It does a very slow roll to the right. His tracks are still rotating very rapidly. He goes over on his top and his tracks keep rotating and continue down the mountain to the bottom.” Unquote. To me, that left track going forward while the machine was in reverse - "back-up alarm activated" - is a little aggressive in that situation. It goes without saying that the left track would have better traction and so would be more effective at driving the machine forward than the right track which was hanging partially over the edge in loose dirt would have been at driving it backward. I'd GUESS that he thought about his situation and then decided that that was the way to get out of it without taking into account the differences in available traction between the two sides. He may have been more successful at extracting himself if he had attempted a gentle reverse turn to the left with BOTH tracks actually driving in reverse. The SAFE way would have been to wait for more help. I hope we can all learn something from this incident and this report, not least that training and experience are invaluable in such situations. Which raises the question of why HFEO#1 was on an unfamiliar machine which was normally operated by HFEO#2? Just my 0.02. Hello, Trackfanatic. "A population density of 1 person/50 square miles," That would seem to indicate that you don't do a lot of fire-fighting in Gippsland or the Blue Mountains, or even around my current home on the Gold Coast. The 'Red Centre' comes to mind. Graders? Been there-done that. I found elevating scrapers to be useful tools too in grass and light scrub fires. Leave the floor open and cut about 4-6" deep with the elevator running - mixes the fuel with enough dirt to stop it being readily combustible. If you have a grass fire and can run the elevating scraper 1/2 in-1/2 out of the fire, it'll often do a nice job of putting it out in one pass. An air-con cab is best for this one.
do dozer operators on a fire need any level of fire training? or are they just under the supervision of someone that does?
fire training: Hello redlaker1, Yes... you need some fire training... every year in fact... check link... Warning: Abandon hope all ye who enter here ... ... you'll see what I mean... http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/training/index.html OCR...
Thrill of a lifetime. Hello, Dozer575. OH???????? So would you be one of those clowns who'd jump out of a perfectly good 'plane WITHOUT a 'chute and hope to link up with somebody who DOES have a 'chute on the way down, just for the thrill? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RttSHz10tIA Working in ANY capacity on a wildfire is DANGEROUS. If you think otherwise, or if you leave others thinking otherwise, or both, you are also DANGEROUS. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are DANGEROUS anyway because of all the crap and misinformation that you have posted on this and other forums under several different pseudonyms for many years now.
not 100% sure what you mean, but I find the incident command system and all the training levels in the states really confusing. and I have had hours of training on it numerous different times. I was a wildland firefighter in my previous job, so I know what its all about... when I worked in the states our training consisted of a guy showing us how to use the fire shelter, and then telling us there was a good chance we could die. oh ya and we watched some videos haha
really confusing: That's what I mean... and that's an under statement ... That's why fire shelters are called "Shake and Bake"... and that's not funny ... I'll see if I can find an easier way to show what training a cat skinner, (HFEO)Heavy Fire Equipment Operator...needs. It's actually not too awful much. Take care, OCR
One for OCR Hi, OCR. I sent an e-mail to the Wildfire Lessons Learned Centre a couple of days ago asking if there was to be any follow-up on the report into D4641's mishap and giving them the link to this thread. I received a very nice reply today with this link in it: http://wildfirelessons.net/documents/Scratchline_Issue13.pdf I thought you might be interested if you haven't already seen it. Maybe others will appreciate it too. The nice lady also thanked me for the link to this thread. Thank you for your insights into wildland fires in your neck of the woods. Somewhat different from my own experiences but almost in another world too. The BIG similarities are that you are ALWAYS in danger on a fireground, that you can NEVER be TOO careful and that no two fires are ever the same. Did somebody mumble something about the thrill of a lifetime???????????????
It takes a special kind of person to keep his cool in that kind of situation (no pun). I don't know if I could actually do that. I really think being shot at is safer in many ways. lady luck may be having a hormonal fit and want to get even. My hats off to the folks that can do the job. :notworthy And thanks for the information. I am curious about it but fire is freind to no one.
That's a bit harsh, isn't it???????????????? Hi, Bear. Quote: "fire is freind to no one." Unquote. That's a bit harsh, isn't it, Bear? Would you like to be branded that way? LOL. Fire can be a very useful tool when used correctly. No small part of the problem these days is the 'greenies' and so-called 'environmental protectionists' who have virtually put a stop to preventative burning off of accumulated fuel load to stop wildfires getting started in the first place. Most of these people have no idea of what it's like in a wildfire and how much harm one does to the environment compared to the much cooler temperatures of a controlled burn-off when the weather is cooler and the fuel somewhat damper and/or greener. We have exactly the same problem DownUnder, people who don't know what they are talking about making a LOT of noise and being taken notice of over and above those who do have a clue or three. A LOT of the Australian bush has evolved over the millenia to NEED fire to survive. Some species of plants and trees DownUnder have extremely tough seed pods that actually require the heat of a fire to crack them open so that they can germinate. No fire, no new plants but the 'greenies' choose to ignore that tiny minor detail. Just my 0.02 - borne out by experience, mine and others.
Well said, DEAS! You are EXACTLY right...these places NEED a burn-off from time to time. It's natural...it's part of the design. Many parts around here are tinder-box ready...FULL of vegetation that has been compounded year after year and "saved" from burning. We too have certain pines that actually need the fire to release the seeds.
Fire is nobody's friend????????????? Hi, ****. I wasn't aware that some of your pines need fire to open their eed pods. Thanks for the 'heads-up'. We do have several species of native lines with some good timber trees amongst them. These mostly grow in the wetter areas close to the coast and I think all are East coast dwellers. Then there is a whole 'nuther' list of pine species that grow in drier areas, are somewhat smaller in size and are generally only good for wood turning due to the stunted nature of them. Many of these species have an oily wood that burns nicely, thank you. The oil has a scent that stays in the wood for ages, especially if kept indoors out of the weather. However, even these trees have developed fire resistance and will mostly survive relatively hot fires if they are in good health, i.e., not much dead wood on them. Hi, Bear. When was the last time you had a charcoal-grilled BBQ steak? Fire is a pretty good friend to me when I'm BBQ-ing. Did you by some chance mean that wildfires are nobody's friend?
Deas SoCal and Australia have a lot in common and far as the types of vegetation the grows there. There where these pine trees the we call Torrey Pines that are only suppose to both places. The the leaf licker's loved those trees. It was hell every time we rusled a needle of those trees.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are DANGEROUS anyway because of all the crap and misinformation that you have posted on this and other forums under several different pseudonyms for many years now. Examples please, what are you talking about?
Examples. Hello, Bob. Just for starters, your earlier statement in this thread that it would be the thrill of a lifetime to be working on a wildland fire. In my experience, the people who go into fire-fighting for a thrill also tend to be a risk takers, which means they may very well endanger others too, either directly by their actions or because they get into a situation where they have to be rescued by others. If I was in charge of a fire crew and knew that one member was a thrill seeker or wanted to be there for the "THRILL" of it, I'd have serious reservations about having that person on the crew, whether it hurt their feelings or not. The 'Tree Clearing Day' thread of a couple of years ago where you stated categorically that front end loaders could not push trees over because of the elevation of the push point, i.e., the loader arm pivot point and the angle of push which would cause the bucket to slide up the tree. I think that one was pretty well put to rest - remember my photos - along with the rest of your rot about 'weeds' and clearing alongside preservation areas. Funny how you went quiet for a good while after that. Your persistant ranting that hi-sprocket drives are not as stable as the oval track designs - the U.S. Army doesn't seem to think so as it is still buying Cat dozers, both oval track and hi-sprocket, so long as they meet the army requirement of a 45 deg, tipping angle - as distinct from a slide angle. Your persistant rubbishing of Caterpillar's range of dozers in the face of the market figures. The evidence would seem to indicate that, if they are 'rubbish', they are better 'rubbish' than any of the competition that they so consistently outsell. Are the people who purchase them all utter dills? In the 'decelerator' thread, you said that you chose whether or not to decelerate and that is fine by me so long as I'm not paying your wages or the repair bills. You then went on to mention the shock loads involved in direction changes with large CNC machines. Firstly, what has a CNC machine got to do with whether or not you use the decelerator pedal on a large dozer? Secondly, the amounts of mass involved are so vastly different that there is no grounds for comparison, not to mention the fact that CNC machines are run by electric motors which have their own built-in shock reduction systems. Do I need to go on? Over the years that I have been watching your posts, I freely admit that you have posted some good stuff, 'SOME' being the operative word. Trouble is, there has been a LOT of lesser quality stuff in between the good ones.
:bash :falldownlaugh my experience with fires these days, if you haven't sat through 4 months of sundays training then they wont let you touch a thing. watching some whippersnapper trying to cut down a tree is a joke but do you think they'd let me pick up a saw despite pretty much living on one for 6 years? its got to the point where i refuse to get involved in the local fire scene, too much politics and bs imho, i reckon most of their practices are too dangerous and far too focused on relying upon safety gear to get them out of trouble. i've fought my fair share of fires. the bloody things are not much fun when the temp is up and the wind is blowing...
Would you like to be branded that way? LOL. Fire can be a very useful tool when used correctly.[/QUOTE] I know what yer saying in that respect Deas, I shoulda been a mite clearer and said it's not yer freind if you're sitting in it, especially if you're sitting in the middle of it on something that don't go any faster than a quick trot. (even with all the fire protection. Fire terrifies me I won't deny) Things should be managed correctly and let controlled burns or the other things that do need to happen happen, for a well balanced ecosystem. I'm just gonna blame the oversite (on prev post) on needing a fix of HEF after another 19 hour day.
Yoo-hoo. D8Bob/Dozer575, where are you? Hello, Bob. WOTT????????? NO response????????????? If I were a slightly more sensitive person, I might feel hurt and rejected that you haven't replied to my list of examples above. Not #@^*~ likely. LOL.
Wildland Fire Dozers : Here are a few more fire pictures... from the Dunn Mountain Fire. This fire was about 20 miles outside of Billings MT, and ended up at a little over 103,000 acres. First two were taken by my DOZB... dozer boss in civilian language... and he was one of the best. Last ones were taken by me...had to set out a smoke event... and it was very unpleasant. If you look hard, there's a helicopter visible in the second smoke picture... left of center, 1/3 down. Last picture is my dozer boss. Not sure who the other fire fighters are. On edit: I should add some info... I went to this fire on 08/27/08... and was there for 8 days... left fire on 09/03/08. If you can see the ground in the smoke pictures... yes... they're rocks... and a lot of them... was not a smooooth ride. Nobody noticed I hadn't logged in for 8 days???... :crying... :lmao OCR
Good to see you made it back safe and sound!
Wildland Fire Dozers : Thanks, not too many problems... other than that smoke thing... finally had to stick my fists... like when you rub them... into my eyes, and just hold them there... talk about eyes burning. Had my air on full blast too... then I thought that was making it worse, so I turned it off. Instantly found out that was wrong, so I turned it back on. I think I sat there a good half to 3/4 of an hour... total lack of visibility, couldn't even see my sweeps at times. Take care, OCR
Just a quick note... the 8 days included the day I went and the day I left. Didn't want my math to look wrong... OCR
Yer Rabsence???????????????? Hi, OCR. Welkum back, M8. Especially being in one piece. Ackshully, the board did seem a pretty peaceful place for the last week, oh, except for young [-Agent] getting his self banned twice in the one thread. Booted once and was back again in minutes with a whole new ID, a list of grievances and a plea to not be booted. 'THE BUTTON' was pushed again. Peaceful? Ye Gods, I couldn't even get a rise out of Dozer575 - see post #110 above. LOL.
im sure that if i read the entire thread i would find the answer to this question. can any of you give me advice or guidance as to where i might look to find a dozer hand job for the forest service. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks
We take the 1 day classroom training in May at the Acadamy. They've never mentioned being able to take the actual dozer training. Their thought is "if you run it for a living, you know how to run it". They are talking changing the training to an actual 'college course' that we would have to take. It would run DAYS, not just one, but would be good for a couple years. Again, just classroom work. ointhead
You're exactly right.. Supposedly there are errors in that report. We'll probably never hear the whole story, but the outcome won't change, will it. Rest in peace Matt. Anyone who is thinking about becoming a private, for hire fire dozer needs to read and heed the Matt Will story...
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums amidozer! :drinkup
Butte Complex fire dozer pictures I have some pretty good pictures of dozers working the Camp/Concow branches of the Butte Complex from June/July 08. Can I post them yet? AMI dozers wife...AMI Boss
Wildland Fire Dozers : Pictures... pictures... pictures. opcorn OCR....
i bet oil leaks are a big no no on those fire fighting cats?? haha
... ... ... Just kidding... depends on how bad they need you, and how cranky the inspectors are. Dozers are usually inspected 3 times ... once at the dispatch center, once when you arrive, and once when you leave the fire. Forgot #4... Pre-season... but pre-season is good for the year. Dispatch usually checks for mechanical defects that would cause operational problems... like stuff that's broke or wore out, and they usually let you get buy with a few weeps... not much though... and they make a note about it on the inspection form. If it's much more... they send you home... no pay either. Some times they forgo the arrival inspection and just inspect you when you're done... the fire inspections are for damage on the fire that you might file a claim on, which they usually won't accept any way... That's the way it works with the BLM under an EERA here in Montana... and it can be different in other areas. But no... I wouldn't go with a belly pan full of oil and pine needles... OCR....
Butte Complex fire dozers Hubby was on this fire with our CAT D7G (no enclosed cab) for 2 weeks with our son and our lowbed/driver. They were moved numerous times further into the woods, every time making a staging area or cutting in line along the way. Each time these staging areas would be burned over. There are more pictures at Photobucket.. http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/dagoatlady/Butte Complex Fire/ Flea staging, originally a logging landing, the job..to make a staging area for crews and engines.
This is a video taken by a local deparment of natural resources officers at the Porters lake forest fire here in nova scotia. I am in the D65 and my buddy "bam bam" running the 220. we never got real close to the fire as it changed directions the morning we got there, but i figured i would share anyway! be sure to check out the other videos on that site, only two houses were lost but there were many more almost taken out http://nsdnr.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=2&pos=5
anyone of you guys fighting the fires in california/los angeles right now??? have just seen it on the news and it seems like an really ugly fire over there
California wildfires: Here's a link to some very good pictures, of the fires, grunk36. www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/11/california_wildfires_yet_again.html They're big pictures... I looked at them and went over my bandwidth limit for StarBand... so now I'm at dial up speed for a few days... Might need to get some help from Steve... LOL Didn't see any dozer pictures either... OCR
100 kbps: Here's my nice little e-mail from StarBand.... OCR
Wildland Fire Dozers: I happened to be looking around in My Pictures, on the computer, and noticed I'd neglected to post one of my "smoke" pictures from the Dunn Mountain fire... so here it is. The second picture is my tent... yes, you read that right... at least that's what I use it for. It's one of those little tandem axle cargo trailers... nothing but an empty box with wood paneling on the inside. I put a wooden bed, that my Dad made me years ago, in it and just use an air mattress on top. It has three slide out wooden drawers in the frame, that I can put my clean cloths, or maintenance manuals, or about anything in. I also use one of those un-vented propane radiant heaters for warmth... here in MT, seems to be more of a need for heat than cool... especially at night in the latter part of fire season... :cool2 I use a Mr. Heater, and a 20 pound bottle... they're safe and work great... I think it's called The Big Buddy. Anyway, it's sure nice to be able to stand up to get undressed or dressed, or any of those other chores one needs to get out of bed for... And if the camp gets moved, which it does quite often, I just hook up and go... every thing stays in "my tent". Even room for a 4-wheeler if I want to take one. Works good as a place to stick a map on too... as you can see. LOL I don't know who the guy standing to the right is... :beatsme OCR...
Wildland Fire Dozers: Something I thought I'd try. LOL On the above post, I typed every thing up on that little Notepad program... then just copied and pasted to the reply box here. Seemed to work ok... no spell check with it, at least I couldn't find how to work one... and no smilies. But as soon as you paste, you can run a spell checker, and pop in the smilies where ever you want... At least you don't lose the whole post if something goes haywire. I suppose every body knew that trick but me... OCR... btw... haywire is actually in the dictionary... :cool2
Some pics i have found.
Millertime Those are good pictures, but the first one has nothing to do with a fire dozer. It is a specially modified dozer for working the tailings ponds in the tar sands operations in Alberta Canada. Some of our members have a great deal of experience with them.
I don't think I would be that proud to bury a D7..lol too funny. My hats off to these everyday heroes!
Whats he proud he got stuck during a wildfire ???
Those pictures of the fire-dozers are awesome, such an amazing view. What an awesome sight to see.
OCR Your posts and pictures are SUPER! I love them. It sounds like your having trouble with your satelite internet service. I had the same problem, exept at Hugh's net they didn't tell me that they were slowing down my service. I finally got an answer from them after complaining about it being slow for a couple of months. I have since went to a Verizon Air Card that is about 4 times faster and hasn't been a problem with going over my limit. Just a helpfull hint if you didn't know about it. They are much more reliable too. I use one for work with a laptop and take it everywhere, and don't lose my connection if a cloud goes by.
Spring photos Here is some shots of the Telegraph Fire area in Mariposa 7 or 8 month after it was put out. They did a re-seed and it sure came out pretty.
Wildland Fire Dozers: I AM IRONMAN, thank you for the nice compliment. Although I can't take much credit for most of the content on this thread, I still appreciate the thought... as, I would think, every one else that made posts, or uploaded pictures, ... :thumbsup Special thanks go to VjjR... who actually started the thread... and I believe was responsible for my joining HEF. (be that good or bad... LOL) Also thanks for the advice about Verizon Air Card... that's something I'll have to look into. I did research Hugh's net to some degree, but I think (not positive) they own Star Band too, so there wasn't much difference, as far as I could see. Also, I do have some very strong feelings about our JD 750c... at the time, I think it was the best all around dozer money could buy, especially for our needs... might still be! Again, thank you, and I look forward to your future posts... :thumbsup OCR
Just an FYI- Where the state of Tenn. picked up some fire dozers, small by the western standards. http://www.thompsonmachinery.com/spotlight_earthmoving_current.php
APA... Chalk Fire: Engine 56 Rollover Here's another Accident Prevention Analysis Report (APA) about an engine rollover on the Chalk Fire. Not about dozers, but I've linked them here before, so I thought it would be OK. Very interesting reading, I think, and a novel way to present these type of investigations. http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/Chalk_Fire_APA.pdf OCR
APA... Chalk Fire: Engine 56 Rollover Although good, that one might have been a bit boring... ... LOL OCR
I know it's been awhile but yep that's what I meant Deas.
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I didn't think it was THAT boring, although I would like a redundancy free copy of that report. I have to wonder if they add all the redundant bs just to make the report longer, and look more 'official'? Thanks for posting though, made for an interesting read.
Wildland Fire Dozers: Here's a few more. This one is 52 pages long. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/rc00257t.pdf http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2009/lessons-learn/dodge-escape-fire-analysis.pdf http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/177024/monster_in_the_woods_the_biscuit_fire/index.html http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/Initial_Impressions_NorCal_2008_Lightning_Siege.pdf There's a couple more that are interesting and I'll try and find them. I have some saved on my computer, but I'm not sure how to link them here...Duh... OCR
Wildland Fire Dozers: Here's another pretty good one, at least I think so. It's 99 pages long... 2.94 MB... kinda big. http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/Angora_Fire_APA.pdf OCR
amazing stories. You guys toatally earn your pay on them calls. Trbo
Very interesting stories..in great detail. Very interesting reads, thanks OCR.
Thanks to all, and you're more than welcome. OCR
Wildland Fire Dozers: Hello WesternStar, I just happened to find, in my opinion, an outstanding wildfire web site a few days ago. It's not quite set up like a forum, maybe a blog or similar, but you can post comments on the material he puts there... and of course I did... lol Also, I use OCR, as my name there too... yes, I'll get to the point soon... :tong... lol 3 posts from site: So I just now went through all the many posts on that thread... and I find: I also find... nobody ever said, "thank you, WesternStar". So, I'll fix that... "Thanks, WesternStar", from every one who posted a picture you liked... :thumbsup :thumbsup OCR...
Wildland Fire Dozers: Well, I guess they could be... but they do look just a bit different than the ones I'm used to seeing... lol http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1856/8/ http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1856/9/ This is the link to the main site though, and it's good for coverage of current incidents: http://www.inciweb.org/ OCR...
Found this pic surfing on Ebay..thought it would be acceptable here..old school fire dozer. Alan
A 527 i worked with a couple years ago. Two feller bunchers
That's not old school. They took that pic of me just the other week!
I'm not an operator... I was looking to get into it, I was on a hotshot crew 3 seasons and an engine before that. Just pictures I took while I was on fires, thought people would like to see. I haven't been on this forum in a long time, was really surprised to see this thread on top.
Hi all, just joined up, I work as a tractor plow (as we call them in the South) operator here in Florida
Fatal Florida tractor plow incident: From: http://wildfiretoday.com/2011/07/09/report-released-on-fatal-florida-tractor-plow-incident/ Complete 44 page pdf report: http://wildfiretoday.com/documents/FL_fatality_Report_07-08-11.pdf A tragic occurrence... may they Rest In Peace. http://www.fl-dof.com/wildfire/memorial.html OCR
Sounds like the firefighters, sadly, got caught in a tough spot. The report said that neither firefighter/operator deployed a fire shelter, what type of shelter is that referring to?
This, Willie... http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf And yes, it's sometimes called a "shake and bake". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuimX5rlZlY OCR
Thank you to all puplic servants that put their lives on the line. RIP
I spent a couple tail ends of my summers on contract truck fire crews. I never did get to see any fire breaks dug in though. Spent most of my time bouncing around in an old 60-70s deuce and half refilling water blivets. We could go anywhere so they loved us once we passes inspections.
It is basically a little tent made out of heat resistant materials. It is a "last resort" type of defense against a flaming front. If you can't out run or out flank the fire, then you take the tent out of it's pouch and unfold it and crawl inside and pray!
Known by many as a "Shake and Bake" Shake it out, crawl in, and get baked
Fatality and injuries by Firefighters in The Black Hills It takes a brave man to go into those fires! When I see forest fires up close, it always amazes me that they can even be put out! Here in the Black Hills near Edgemont, SD. we had a fire last month that took the life of a brave young man, it would be very easy to get trapped in the fire. Maybe he didn't have the experience that some of you guys have had. I know you learn a lot fighting fire year after year. Here are a couple of links. The Wildlandfire forum has all the news about how it happened and notes from the Black Hills Natl. Forest Director. http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=119463 http://www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=21156
Conditions can change so rapidly, it can cause problems in moments. Here, the biggest danger is probably not so much the fire as it is the heat. What causes problems is firefighters put on a bunch of hot gear, and daytime temps this year have sometimes exceed 120 degrees Fahrenheit. The heat makes it almost impossible to put out and keep out a fire, and its easy to get too hot.
This dozer became high centered on a stump about two weeks ago and was burned over. The operator had to get out and run. This was in Texas near Bastrop. Some say that it was intentionally high centered so it would get burned up and have to be replaced. I don't know for sure as I wasn't there personally. A co-worker took this pic with his phone and sent it to me. I would hate to think that someone would put themselves in danger just to get a new dozer, but it wouldn't surprise me.
That doesn't look like it would have been to hard to get off of unless the fire was right on top of him. Is that a swing grapple on it? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
That's the fireline plow on the back.
Guess I've never seen one of those, you guys do stuff alot differently down there than we do. Any better pics of one? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
This one is from Arkansas This one is from Tennessee And This one is mine A lift plow is the only way to go. Much better than a pull type plow.
Here's another pic of mine while not stuck:
Up close and personal of a RM-750 Lift Plow
Thanks for the pics. Been wondering what they look like.
Here are a couple of photos of my assigned tractor plow, a 2007 JD 650J with a Fesco twin disc medium fire plow
Here is a video that I made about 4 years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hiYz-Zthog&context=C3183ed9ADOEgsToPDskKODhltlGteaEvmOwkAUiYR
@Dirtroad, the lift type plow is likely better in the fuel types you have in SC, or further north and west, blowy leaf or grassy fuels,. I need the extra weight and heft of my trail plow to cut through palmetto or malelucca stands or pines, along with the heavier tractors to pull them. It all depends on your ground fuels and terrain. Same reason all of our tractors are LGP (and some have extra wide swamp tracks) for the soft sandy soils and wet boggy areas we work in down here in FL
Waking this thread up for more pics. I read this morning that there are 32 dozers on the Blue Cut Fire. That's a lot of iron. http://abc7.com/news/blue-cut-fire-68-percent-contained;-105-homes-destroyed/1477589/ . Forty years ago this summer I was on an LA County camp crew. Seems like yesterday. My hat's off to all the folks out there putting their tails on the line. :usa
Yeah I keep seeing pictures on social media of some dozers and the fire. It was pretty intense. I don't live far away and the smoke was horrible. I have always wanted to do the fire dozer thing too. An old buddy has three dozers he sends out to fires. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's a bit of info on how contract dozers helped to save Wrightwood during the fire. http://www.scpr.org/news/2016/08/19/63738/how-wrightwood-was-won-dozers-defiant-neighbors-an/
I just came across this today. From this posting: http://hotlist.wildlandfire.com/threads/54243-CA-SLU-CHIMNEY?p=220990#post220990
Just gotta do *one* more pass... aw nuts...
Hey guys, I am an operator for the USFS in Central Oregon. I thought I'd share some photos and see if anyone can offer some advice on the choice of a new dozer. Most of my experience is in cut-to-length logging and mulching machines so I'm pretty new to dozers. My 02 JD 700h is ready for replacement in a year or so. The new machine needs to be a similar size or slightly larger. The transport is a dual-axle tilt deck fifth-wheel which is great for turning around in the woods compared to the "big dozer" transport that the forest has (a triple-axle lowboy carrying a D6xl). The primary purpose of the machine is pushing fireline with some piling and road building. It will have a forestry package and I like a 10 or 11 foot blade for the ease of getting into tight areas on the transport. -I like the JD 750k since John Deere is right down the road. -Cat is about 30 minutes away and a D6n would be a similar size. Is there much advantage to the high track for pushing power? Are there any other options you would recommend? Thanks, Dan
I am surprised you get any say in the matter. Usually the USFS does it their way whether it makes sense or not. Do you go off forest much? The vast majority of fire equipment in California at least is Cat. I have seen a few John Deeres in Oregon but not many. My thinking is if you are off forest you may have an easier time finding mechanics on fires who are familiar with Cat to patch things together and get you going again.
I should have some input on choosing the next machine. The fleet manager asked me what I would like, but that doesn't mean that I choose won't get shot down. The dozer can go off forest but its primary use is IA. I think in the past 10 years it has been out twice, but maybe the prior operators haven't tried.
Hi Dan I don't now if you made your decision yet but in our area they are just had a D6N xl with an extended rear track frame roller delivered that helped on our ranch burn. The operator said the JD 750 were out climbing the regular 6n's so they tried one of these but it was an $18,000 increase in price. A question had for you was if there is any private contract dozer work for fires in Oregon. I'm looking at property near Terrebonne and an trying to weigh my options if I have to leave this area. I'll try to post some pictures. One is pov of the my D6B on our ranch burn.
That's good info on the 750 climbing vs the D6n. We haven't made a decision yet and it may be a while until it happens. The fire contracting business is very competitive in Oregon, but the state and feds rely heavily on contractors so they get used quite often.