I run straight #2 diesel and add White Bottle Power Service. I use the recommended dosage on the bottle to get me safe to 0F temp in the 500 gallon storage tank. If running in colder temps I add an additional dosage in the grader tank as I use it. Several years ago I was always blending fuel. Half #2, half #1. I noticed a definite power decrease. So I started using treated #2.
Should work fine until the machine sits for a night outside at -10F, or something happens and you don't fill up at night before putting it away. If I'm running every day, I'll keep going with #2 until about 10°, then I just say phuc it and put straight #1 in. If that machine has to sit outside you'll be SOL.
We have what is called summer fuel and winter fuel, I have to run a treatment in my fuel every now and then, these nylon tanks Cat uses on the M series seem to break down and clog my fuel filters with black slimy sludge, the treatment seems to help
Well, I think that's just simple forethought. I plan ahead. If I'm going to run the machine in conditions that might get to -10F I add more treatment before I start. I always, always, always fill up before putting it away. I don't have the luxury of a heated shed to park in. So, basically, my machine "sits outside" in regards to temps every night. My machine is sitting with a full tank of treated fuel right now that's good to 0F. By watching the weather reports I know if that's enough or not. I've never ran straight #1. So I can't testify to that.
In my World, Winter fuel is either lightly treated or blended. Most times blended. Black slimy sludge is algae. That's completely separate from gelling fuel. Once you get algae growing in your tank you have to treat it with an algaecide to kill it. Until you treat the tank this problem will continue. You probably are getting algae from your source tank. So the problem continues. If you don't have algae problems, which I don't, there's no worry until the supplier pumps algae into your storage tank. I've never had algae problems with the grader. I'm Blessed. It's much worse than gelling fuel.
I bought some offroad diesel in FL in Aug. I filled both my machines with it. The machines are sitting in the mountains in TN. When I go there next week, there are days with high temps in the 30's. Am I screwed?
Pretty sure it doesn’t get cold enough in TN to cause a problem. Straight #2 is fine till 15*f. I am kind of a fuel chicken and start adding a little #1 or Howes just in case. If you worried throw some anti gel in before you start it. The thing that gets you with equipment coming from south to north, is the water separator. Should fully drain or change them before get into a below 32°F area. Seen a few bowls pushed off the bottom.
Depends on what the low temps are, and for how long.
30 is not cold. You will be fine.
I did add these 2 things according to their instructions:
One night, pushing snow, my 953 needed fuel, and my transfer tank filter and fuel gelled up. An old timer working for me said to go put 3 gallons of gasoline in my 100 gallon tank. By the time I got back from the gas station I had about 10 seconds of whine, then full flow. Since then, I treated my storage tanks with 2% gas, if it was extreme cold I would do the 3%. I never had an issue again.
People often get algae confused with asphaltene oxidation caused by over-heated return fuel from HPCR fuel systems. It turns the filter elements black. Just a feature of the creature.
Good info
Working for the largest diesel distributor in the state, I became very familiar with black filter syndrome. Upset customers would call and complain about the algae we sold them. We would ask questions and cut open filters. We would pull a sample from the bottom and send it out. No algae would show up on the report. We discovered that Power Service Clear in the warm months or white bottle in the cold months, helped prevent it. Eventually, all deliveries on the road system were additized.
Local bulk supplier treats the fuel at their location, pretty much worry free. Just filled my transfer tank last week. Ed
A few guys that run older ISX need to run this stuff to keep the black filter syndrome at bay. They all have spoken the "asphaltene" word so it's a thing. https://fppf.com/product/sludge-be-gone/
I put fuel in the tank and go. Never worried about additives or anything else. Believe it or not, I've never actually seen algae in diesel. Have seen the asphaltene now and then.
That’s the thing, Bumpsteer. I let folks know there is a point of diminishing returns with additizing. The cloud point starts heading the wrong direction.
My 5500 with a 6.7 Cummins started throwing codes for turbo actuator failing. I alway use the engine braking and try to keep the turbo vanes moving full stroke but the code still came up. Most people say you need a new actuator or turbo when that happens but our local fuel pump shop suggested a turbo Vane cleaner additive for in the fuel. I was very surprised that in one tank of fuel the codes were eliminated. Amazing how something burned up in combustion can clean vanes in a turbo.
Detroit Diesel OLD Shop manuals had the Gas to Diesel Blending formulas for temperature, use ONLY UNLEADED Regular Gas, not sure how ethanol gas will affect. MAX for deep Negative temps was 5%.
The one and only time I ever had diesel gel in the grader was filling up at a truck stop with a sign on the pump saying "winterized fuel". The place I fill my personal transfer tank has a sign up saying "winterized fuel". I carry a white bottle of PS in the truck. I add treatment as if there's no sign on the pump. Fuel gelling sucks bad!!! I often hear guys from the Northern States say they don't have to treat. We obviously aren't far enough North....
Very common practice here 30 years ago. Common to see a OTR truck parked at the "gas" pump.
That good winter stuff won't even cloud at -38.
Jet A is often used on the North side of the road system and Western AK. I think the stuff we get has a cloud point of -40. Plus, the stuff this year contains anti-icing additive.
I assume our fuel is just treated at the plant. We don't get the cold here we had years ago, but I have never had fuel gel. Come to think of it I probably had more issues with water in gas. I think the industry is regulated pretty heavy to protect the consumer. Fella I know that runs a gas bar, no diesel, he says a fella comes 3 times a year to check the quality of his product, and to make sure the pumps are pumping the amount you are paying for. If he sold fuel, it's once a month I guess.
Used to haul Blended for Winter Diesel here, back in the 80s, not certain how much of that actually occurs around here as fuel gelling is still a real problem.
It’s been so long since I’ve had a fuel gelling problem here I almost forgot it was a thing. -38 here overnight. I never add anything to the fuel. Fill from a card lock usually.
I have never had fuel gelling happen here or up north . Had the spare def jug frozen when i ran that crap. Had a lot of algae issues when i had marine equipment in the picture we learned about cleaning or replacing fuel tank bottoms . Any water would pit the inside of the tank bottom or the algae would grow like sea weed. learned to keep full tanks as much as possible ,used stuff called Biobor until we beat the algae. put good lower water traps on the tanks .Fun stuff .
Remember--Power Service 911 in the red 32 oz bottle only cuts the wax in 40 gallons. So if a 120 gal truck tank just figure 3 bottles-It just cuts the wax does not treat the fuel. Will need at least 2 bottles of Power Service treatment in the white 32 oz bottles to treat 120 gallons in this cold. Figure $50 bucks per tank.
That's quite a little tug boat. Could salvage logs like the Beachcombers.
Salvaging logs used to be an ok living , but every thing moves in bundle booms or on the barges . Not many bones to pick anymore. Back to fuel treatment a friend of mine swears by a quart of ATF in every tank fill for extra lubrication.
Yeah it works, but down here one quart will contaminate a 100 gals of ULSD on road. If the tank is dipped even if it's pink--10K.
Good point ,never thought of that one.
Had fuel jelling for the first time Tuesday. Topped up the tractor from my last jerry can and the fuel would not pass the screen on the funnel. Surprisingly, the tractor ran with no problems even though it was parked beside the jerry can. I was trying to remember when I filled the jerry cans last. We know the answer. Picked up 15 gallons of winter fuel this afternoon. That should keep the driveway passable for a month or 2 if we don’t get too much snow. Cam
I always use some Howes treatment when i’m travelling like today. -32c when we left home at noon for the 5hr drive down to edmonton. I’d rather treat the fuel than have problems on the road. Everybody is on winter fuel here now but my old duramax had some late summer diesel in it so i’ve been treating it rather than have to change that miserable fuel filter by the side of the road that some sob engineer stuck over the rh front fender liner. My other truck didn’t make it out of the yard- the def was froze solid . It was -40 overnight
Some people like Howes but some say it isn't good to put in the fuel. Curious what the consensus on here is?
I picked up some treatment and gel thinner at Coop yesterday. I will leave it behind the seat of the pickup with my spare fuel filter just in case. Cam
Why would Howes not be good to put in the fuel? I’ve been using it for many years with no problems in all of my diesel engines
Why would Howes not be good to put in the fuel? I’ve been using it for many years with no problems in all of my diesel engines. It seems to be the most popular antigel treatment around here
Old Lorain looks Nekked, House off the running gear?
It's an additive. I'm not sure they'd still be in business if it damaged fuel systems. The older I get, however, I think additives are more piece of mind than anything. These idiots that dump a half gallon of additive in 50 gallons of straight #2 fuel and expect it to run at -10F, nevermind -25 without fuel heaters of some sort, deserve to sit on the side of the road or in the middle of the yard. We run straight 2 in all the trucks, but they come in the shop at night. I ran #2 on the road, and shut the truck off down to -15F, but I had a FuelPro plumbed with coolant, and I always fueled up around noon every day, and never put in more than what I figured I had on.
If you are buying fuel in North Dakota in the winter, it is already winter blended fuel. It is likely mixed more #1 than #2. Bad Bob
Yes the Lorain only had 4 bolts holding it on the turntable so we decided to make a mini rig out of it on a small barge we had . It was handy for welding jobs and repair stuff. Put the last picture in to show that some days you never have enough cranes .
LOL!! Pretty Limber Lumber floating walkway. And a PITA to maneuver.
Limber is good on timber floats .Stiff floats beak in the swells. They stiffen up well once floating .
Neat picture There's a road construction project on I-94 in Kalamazoo, MI right now that has 11 cranes (all Terex) working in a 3 mile span. I think the smallest crawler I saw the other day was a HC110, biggest I saw was an HC 165. Thats probably the most cranes I've ever seen on a single road project.
Not sure I understand what you are saying? I haven't ran blended fuel for many years. I treat #2 diesel and have no problems.
Oh, that's why he thinks that. In Missouri you'll sometimes see signs stating "winter blended, or winterized fuel". But nobody trusts that and treats like it's #2.
It was a few years ago I read someone saying not to use Howes. I think it was a skid steer forum or something. It could be a case something else was the issue and they blamed it on the Howes or some bizarre test of little importance showed the Howes rated lower than another fuel treatment. I just remembered reading it so thought I'd ask on here since there's a lot of diesel owners.
Sorry Bob, but you're wrong. If I buy #2 at the pump, it's #2. It may have additive in it, or not. If I order a tanker of #2 Roadmaster, it's #2, and will cloud accordingly. If a pump says "blended", it *might be, but I'm not trusting it.
You won't be running for long up here at -25F, unless it sits inside a heated shop. I have had issues with half and half at -10F, WITH ADDITIVE. Power Service, Howes, FPPF, I've tempted fate and the cold wins in the right conditions. The B-series Cummins are the worst. Itty-bitty filters and no return. The P-pumps run longer than the VE pumps, but they all quit on a -20F day with the wind blowing 37 mph if you aren't running straight #1. ALL OF THEM.
Have seen trucks come up to Alberta get stuck in their tracks because of fuel issues and that's after they were warm and running. Generally the winter fuel here doesn't require additives but a lot of people use some for piece of mind. Parking in a warm shop and going out in the bitter cold can cause problems too. That's why some snow removal equipment is left outside but has multiple heaters for the engine, hyd's, trans., fuel tank, etc.
If you're cold, they're cold. Bring them inside.
Bringing inside is OK if it will thaw everything out. If snow and ice partly thaws and then refreezes can cause problems. Some of the problems are related to ice on buckets and blades.
I was just being a smart ***. I learned that lesson in Bethel with aviation refuelers. They were being left in the hanger and the transition to -40F back to a humid hanger was causing all sorts of problems. Condensation in the electrical junction boxes, cargo tank, air system. They did much better staying in the cold. Once they freeze up, leave them frozen and dry.
You ever see a “nose stall” ? Interesting set up. I ran across them at a Crowley facility. There is enough shelter to park the cab of the truck under cover, Bull rail for block heaters and each stall had a giant natural gas furnace blowing hot air onto the cab, keeping the glass clear. Of course, the gas furnaces were disabled in this day and age
Given the (local) $1.20/gallon premium for #1 over #2, none of the retailers can afford to make a winter blend, Even 10% #1 will price them out of the market. I blended my 1000 gal tank 50/50, 'cause it is also the fuel tank for my stand-by generator. All the trucks and mobile equipment got Peak anti-gel. -15F on the truck thermometer yesterday, supposed to be +50F by Wednesday. The old school thing about adding gasoline was true before the switch to ULSD. Once the refineries had to break the big molecules to get the sulfur out, the diesel lost much of its lubricity. Then add in the much higher pressures of HPCR and I wouldn't add any gasoline. If I really, really had to get something that was a late model engine running, I'd add just as much light oil as gasoline, atf if it was an off-road machine. A local mechanic and I were talking a while ago about fun with cold diesels. He was doing road service on I70 back in the late '70's, early '80''s. One really cold winter, possibly 1983, he spent about a week straight rescuing gelled trucks. Back then he would just pull the plug and drain the fuel on the side of the road, change the filters, and have a local supplier with a tank truck bring out straight #1 and refill the tanks. One of the DOT men of the same era was talking to him and mentioned he thought there were still areas that wouldn't grow grass where they dumped fuel 40 years ago.
Yep same here, our local fuel station has #1 and #2 at the punp. you can blend your own cocktail. I have a seperate tank at the yard for offroad #1. Most of the time i just burn staight #1 from Dec till Feb. The weather here can really ruin your day if you get caught unprepared.
So why is #1 so expensive? Refiners don't make much anymore? I honestly don't know what my fuel has in it. I used to ask and just got a "we blend it starting late november". Blended with what and to what protection level - who knows? It doesn't get that cold too often by us, but I'd hate to take off to north country without knowing what was in it.
Friend of mine runs a large truck wrecker service. The past 3 days he has posted repeatedly that "Howes" is his best customer. As you mentioned, it might be the operator's mix errors. But he says every truck he has retrieved was treated with Howes.
I never trust someone else to treat my fuel.
I've ran 50/50 blend with an additive at -20F. I don't recall seeing -25F here since I've been running a grader. And I hope I don't!!!!
These are the "idiots" I referred to. Additive does NOTHING, and I can't stress that fact enough up here. When it's -25 and there is a 30 mph wind blowing up your ass, #1 is the only thing that will keep you running if you don't have fuel heaters. I've never ran equipment with as big of engines as trucks, so there may be some of you that have had better luck with yellow iron, but anything with less than a 100 gallon tank is subject to my rules. These super truckers that get caught with their pants down usually have made one of two mistakes, in my experience. They have either ran the truck down to a quarter tank and pumped in 200 gallons of ice cold fuel, or they shut the truck off for an hour. Either one is a death sentence without tank heaters, Webb, or FuelPro.
Several years ago I was 3 days into a blizzard and severely cold temps. I was roading the grader on a paved road headed for one of my gravel roads. JD 770D. It went into neutral and coasted to a stop. Put it in Park, shift to F4, it would take off in F4 and immediately downshift to F1, then neutral. Was carrying a block of ice on the rear of the machine, almost dragging the ground. Called a neighboring Grader guy and he towed me to the grader shed (unheated). I put a tarp over the rear of the machine and fired up a blast furnace. Finally thawed the snow off the rear of the machine exposing the trans. The ice had pulled on the trans solenoid wiring hard enough to break one of the tiny connectors on the 1-2 shift solenoid. This caused the computer to default and shift the trans into neutral. Later that Winter I built side shields to cover the trans so the powertrain heat could keep ice from building up on the trans solenoids. Hard, cold lesson learned that Winter. In the G models JD enclosed everything. First pic is of the shields I made for the D model. Second pic is the current G model factory setup. Much better.
Shimmy, you live by different rules up there, and if you don't, you don't (live, that is). I've had to learn to play by your rules before, but not for more than about 10 days, never from Nov to March.
I'd be nervous if I had to be out at -20F with 50/50 in a smaller machine, but I believe you that it worked. Few years ago pushing snow I ran low in the quadtrac and was close to town so I pumped in 75 gallons each of #1 and #2 in a tank that *should have had about 100 gallons left. It was -25F and I had about 4 miles to go to get to the heated shop where I was to park it for the night. I was down to about 5 miles per hour the last half-mile into the yard and shop. The next day it ran fine, nut never again did I fill at the station. We filled the service truck and let it sit in the shop overnight before putting it in the tractor. Here's the real problem with running straight or even blended fuel in equipment in the winter. I'm not sure about everyone else's iron, but my **** breaks down on occasion. A machine sitting in the wind for more than an hour or two is going to be iffy at best, and if it has to sit overnight you are fricked, I don't care how much Howes or P/S you got in the tank.
Couple days ago I moved the Grader to my house and parked it in my machine shed, unheated. I live about 6 miles from the Grader shed. Save me from having trouble getting to the Grader if the roads were bad. My machine shed isn't deep enough to get the Grader completely inside. But it keeps the cab from being iced over if parked outside.
Somewhere around that time frame a small truck stop near me called and asked if I could work on trucks that were stalled in their lot and at the pumps. I called a friend and we spent that night getting trucks running. The ones at the pumps we pulled the plugs and drained it all. I'll guess we dumped 600-1,000 gallons of diesel fuel in their lot. Today people would absolutely freak out. Nobody even mentioned it then. Just needed to get running.
I have had to run and work in -25F to -40F for over a month straight. 2008 was the most recent, I know it happened in the 90s, and also back in the 80s. There is a reason Coaldust has the experience he does. We don't get it quite as bad down here, but we get really good mouthfuls from time to time. There is nothing I despise more than trying to **** around with -20F diesel fuel when the wind is blowing directly up your backside. My hands still hurt remembering situations from the past, with the added bonus of knowing that it was self-inflicted by not getting proper fuel in the tank when the weather was nice
I agree. Fuel gelling is as bad as it gets.
2 months of -20 C to -40c . This vibro was frozen solid just from the trip up . The power unit had enough plug in heaters to recover over night .The hammer was a block of ice and steel that required 2 days under insulated tarps with frost fighters running steady.Clarity hyd oil almost solid. Once we got it running there was no shutting it down and we ran the hammer in reverse flow all the time we werent driving sheets. The power unit began to melt a small pond in the ice around 2' deep which did become concerning as the ice bridge we were on was 5' thick. Biggest trick was keeping the frost fighters running,thats a black art in its self.
Wanabet? Bad Bob
How much?
Call your fuel dealer up and ask before you lose . Bad Bob
I've been buying fuel from this station for almost 30 years. The guy I work with, his dad had a fleet of tanker trucks and hauled fuel all over the state in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. He is currently the president of the local Farmers Union co-op board. We have #2 Roadmaster delivered to our bulk tanks. It does not pump at -20F. So, I guarantee you that when I buy #2 fuel, I'm getting #2 fuel. Unless my eyes are deceiving me that when I pump #2 at -10 it looks like syrup, and #1 looks like alcohol.
My Dad warned me, "never play another man's game".
Plus, they are not going to sell me 50/50 #1/#2 for $0.60 per gallon cheaper than #1, and call it #2. That's just ridiculous.
We usually don’t get full winter D1 until late nov. up until then its blended. So, my diesel engines may have D2 or a mixture because i don’t put enough hours on in the fall so i treat the fuel in them so i can use them until we are on D1 without the risk of gelling. I’ve been doing it for years and i can’t recall the last time i had a gelling issue. But maybe up here our diesel is slightly different than south of the 49th
Power Service will only cut the fuel safely to about -15* below. But most engines especially in later trucks have a lot of hot return fuel. #1 is still the best and always was the best in sub temps.
I've read comments about ULSD lacking lubricant. And that #1 has even less lubrication. Is that a concern on the newest engines? Is an additive needed to improve that when using #1?
Some say #1 is terrible, others claim that fuel has to meet lubricity standards. When I'm burning #1, I use Stanadyne and a quart of 2-stroke per 100 gallons. I'm thinking the only people that know for sure are the guys that decide what and how much to add to the raw fuel. I know that the #1 or winter fuel you get in AK or Canada is way better than the crap you get in Missouri.
These days the main engine brand I'm around is Daimler Detroit 15's and 16's. Daimler states they only want clean fuel no additives except for cold weather conditions. A set of DD15 injector's run in the neighborhood of $1000 ea. Majority of our trucks run no additives {65} And I think in the last five years we've only had to replace two injectors and those were covered. I think by now the companies have the injection systems engineered to operate solely on ULSD.
How much #1 do your trucks burn?
Shimmy that all depends on where their fueling, If headed to ND or Denver they fuel on that end. And it's what ever that truck stop calculates for upcoming temperature drop. A problem that happens here is fuel on the westside is normally treated for conditions on the west side of Cascades. Trucks fuel there and don't add a extra bottle, very likely could have issues over here.
And here is where we have the root of the problem. Drivers today too stupid to understand or learn how to keep a truck running in the cold, and bean counters too cheap to buy #1 fuel. So, the solution is to rely on the fuel retailers to figure out a solution, instead of having #1 and #2 fuel available and letting the driver be responsible for his rig like he had to be 30 years ago.
Out here you won't find #1 dispenser at a truck stop or off road, hasn't been around for years. Bean counters know everything-just ask them, as far as drivers go the industry helped create that.
Fuel producers have blended #2 for many years, in fact there are maps that show which blends are used by the months in the states. As far as treated diesel it is recommended that no additives be used as they may interfere with the original additives. As far as fuel beaning different in other areas fuel is made to the same standards across the US if not the world. You a lucky to have #1 at the pump so you are able to sweetin up #2 when the temperature drops . My son worked at a company that had 200 + pieces of equipment and trucks that runs #1 year around. If you are having good luck with your program carry on. Bad Bob
Bob, I'm not sure why you seem to believe you know everything about the diesel business over here in ND, or everywhere else, but my family has been involved in farming, trucking, and construction since there were trucks on the road. We have always had #1 in the winter here, and if the pump says #2, you know it's #2. Now, over the last 5-8 years (basically since this ultra-low sulfur bu||****) we now see some stations carry either *winterized* or P40 diesel. I wouldn't use the **** to start a fire, much less fuel my diesel engine. The good thing is, the only people dumb enough to use this garbage are the guys that park their pickup in a heated garage, or the tourist types driving through, and chances are you will see these guys dead on the side 30 miles down the road. Us guys that know won't fill at these places because they don't sell enough to have the volume to guarantee good quality. Now, before this last week and all the conversation on here and over on the other site, I never even gave a thought to not having #1 available. I mean, What. The. ****. If we didn't have #1 at the pump there would be war. We cannot function without it. And as far as your comment about fuel grades being the same wherever you go in the country? That is completely false. I have heard of many a southern truck tank up with #1 in Kansas/Nebraska/Missouri, and get up here at -20F, shut the truck off overnight and have to pump out whatever is left in their tanks because it's jello. If these fuel suppliers actually manipulate the fuel based on location, it's a miracle that someone hasn't died yet because of that stupidity. SMH.
Hey now, no need to pick on Missouri. I wonder, is it different? Wouldn't #1 be manufactured with standards? Otherwise how would people travel and not know what they are getting? Is #2 the same everywhere? So, when you are using #1 you also have to add Stanadyne and, I'm assuming, 2-stroke mix oil? So, you don't consider #1 to have the appropriate properties to serve your engine?
But you didn't answer my questions. So you concur that no additives should be added? If the companies have the infection systems engineered to operate solely on ULSD you don't need additives for cold weather?
Yep. Huge problem.
There ya are picking on Missouri again.
Not picking on Missouri, lol. I just have personal experience knowing guys that filled up with straight #1 down south, assuming they would be fine up here, and then get here, shut the truck off over the weekend and come Monday they are pulling it into the shop to melt down because the fuel turned to jello.
Google ASTM D975 there are enough info to answer your questions. #1 the same #2 winter different by which state you're in and which month. you can add all the snake oil you want and can afford except the 2stroke oil, it lowers the cetane of the kerosene. The old gasoline trick is a real no no, that has a real chance of creating a big repair bill. Bad Bob
Our fuel retailers that I buy fuel from don't put that stupid "winter" #2 in their tanks. We have #1, and #2. Which, now it's maybe making sense. These guys that have trouble more than likely are coming from states where they are inbred into a false sense of security because they don't know the difference between *winter* #2 and our #2, because all they use is #2. MISLABELED #2, in my opinion. What a joke. Sounds like here in ND we need signs for the children.
Bob, I have another question. Obviously I'm going to take your word that different states use different blends in different months for #2. What about #1?
#1 is the same it's basically kerosene. Your fuel guy has no choice but to get winter #2 because it is made at the refineries not the dealers. Its not just mixing #1 but refined that way. Do yourself a favor and call your dealer Tuesday. Bad Bob
The magellan tank farm in Fargo, where my fuel mostly comes from, has some giant storage tanks. They are not at the mercy of whatever the refinery is making. Right now I can get Straight#2 dyied fuel, #2 clear, #1 red and clear. and also winterized clear fuel. Not sure if they make red winterized, I have never tried to buy any. If I wanted to fill my 12,000 gal farm tank right now with summer #2 I could. I have no idea what other states do or offer. If the #2 pumps around here don't have the winterized label on them, it's probably straight #2. Most have a straight #1 option also.
Not positive at the truck stops here but think it's the same as regular pumps. They basically have one diesel and the tanks are filled with the appropriate fuel for the temperature. If people had to treat their own fuel to not have gelling or other problems in cold weather, there'd be dozens of diesel pick ups and cars littering the side of the road. I would think where you get your diesel could make a difference the same as gas. A station that doesn't sell nearly as much is more likely to have too much left over summer fuel when the weather turns cold. Have heard it several times where they say to buy fuel from a busy gas station but not if you see the tanks getting filled. Filling the tanks mixes up any gunk in the bottom so it's better to let everything settle before you fill up.
Over the years, after reading hundreds of posts about Diesel Fuel, I realize there is a lot of differences depending on geographic location. And opinions. I accept all of them as what works best for the user. There used to be a member here named Randy Krieg. Or might be spelled Kreig. I wish he was in this conversation. He ran a grader building ice roads for drilling platforms in Alaska. "Search" him here and read some of his threads. Great orator and picture taker. I'm just far enough South that it's rare for a supplier to blend their Diesel. But if they do, it's just enough to keep it liquid for their handling. I've "heard" the Winter/Summer Diesel fuel story but don't put any credibility in it. For me, I run straight #2 with snake oil added. I haven't had any problems for 20 some years doing that.
Asked the local fuel delivery guy as I was at the station I use for gas last night and he said the fuel he had been delivering was blended, will be until some point in April. He also noted was using white jug PS as the fuel was still elevated on cloud point where was not sure why or if they were skimping on the blend percentage. I still use Howes and at time PS, not had bad luck with either where the clue is to mix it in BEFORE is screaming ass cold!! Dumping a jug into gelled fuel expecting a miracle is not gonna happen. That same winter of 83 we worked overtime for a full night adding jugs of PS and stirring with old broom handles while salamanders were heating the engines back from frosted cold soak to get the jello thin enough to flow and burn.
The delivery guy's response is exactly why I trust no one to provide fuel I can depend on. Your comments are why I treat early and late in the season.
You can trust me, Mr. Ovrszd. I can hook you up with the good stuff, all day long. Weekends, weeknights, Holidays, too. I specialize in Thanksgiving deliveries.
Since the weather warmed up quite a bit here -30'sC to about -8 I was planning to go out to my property and hopefully get the grader going to clear the driveway. I highly doubt it has full winter diesel it. I'm going to pick up some new winter fuel and wondering what the best type of additive would be to add to the fuel in case there is some gelling? I was wondering if the fuel gelled in the extreme cold snap if it would thaw out warming up 25 deg's.? I should be able to warm the filters and fuel system and get my generator started so I can plug it in for a couple hours.
Fuel lines filters and drilled galleries will be worst for the jello. If can see in look in tank possible stir what can see to detect consistency and if ‘clouded’, If not may be good as is. As to engine end a salamander or even block heater until warms compartment some will aid in thinning fuel jello back down. In the ancient years placing conventional charcoal on drip trays we used during pan removals, set afire with conventional lighter fluids then as dropped back to JUST Coals slipped tray under engine on gravel yard. Added charcoal as needed until engine was sufficiently warmed.
Around here the fuel usually won’t gel completely until it starts to flow and a restriction(filter) catches it and plugs
I have a salamander heater if I can get my generator started. I should be able to warm the generator carefully with a tiger torch (weed burner).
Dave, Nothing can go wrong with that plan. Don’t burn your eyebrows off!
Tank #5, what's in it?
The Freshest Jet A you will find this side of the Alaska Range. There’s more where that came from. Except, 4,000 gallons, which is flowing down the Chulitna River at this time. Totally not my fault.
My point being, the purchaser has no idea what they are buying? It simply says ULSD. Personally, I would treat it immediately after entering my tank. For all I know it's straight #2.
Oh’, yeah. OK, I hear what you are laying down. It’s a tank farm the customer will never see, inside a secure terminal. But, the manifest you receive will have the exact product listed. I’ll even pull out the hydrometer and we can check the API together. I’ll additize with your favorite brand of fuel treatment while you watch. Feel free to check the meter ticket , most recent annual Weights & Measurements report & check their seals on my LCRII. When I pump a gallon, you get a gallon. I won’t let you down. You can count on me. I promise to not drive over your Mail box this time. That was just a fluke. I’m normally more better than that.
Funny story. I had a driver wipe out a elevated dog run cable, poorly located over a freaking driveway, while making a home heat delivery. No dogs were harmed. But, the terminal manager and another driver spent the next couple hours rounding up the dog team. Good times.
Do you have enough tarp to cover it over? Even the weed burner works well laid underneath if your careful . especially if you have a chunk of pipe to stuff it into . Take your time and get the machine as warm as you can.
Id think an enterprising musher would have some skids on a 250 gallon tank and be out making deliveries.
Yes, I'm going to pick up a 5ft. length of stove pipe and throw a tarp over the generator. Very small flame is required. Years ago I used the Tiger Torch and some stove pipe with a 90 deg. elbow to warm up my frozen Hino parked on the street.
I was thinking you might tarp your grader and use the weed burner under it. Ive done that with my cranes in some serious cold.
There is a great YouTube video testing all the diesel additives to see how they compare.
While warming up the generator I hooked up booster cables on the grader to make sure I had full power. After 5 or 10 minutes I thought I'd just see what the grader did. I remember the guy I bought it from said it will start right up at -20C just like it does when it's warm outside. Much to my surprise it did start right up! I gave it a little throttle because it was a little rough at idle. After about 30 seconds it was running nice. It moves snow pretty good. The biggest issue is the front tires don't grip very good for steering. The grader doesn't appear to have a feature to unlock the differential which I'm sure contributes to the pushing straight and not turning. Leaning the wheels helps if you're not pushing a load of snow. I have some chains for the tractor I'm sure would fit so might put them on the front tires. Very pleased with the grader starting but my truck died again. After several attempts it started and I kind of made it home but it quit again when I stopped to pick up some food. Going out to try it again hoping maybe once it cools off I can at least get it home.
No such luck with the truck. Was reading Ford had issues with throttle bodies in some 2015/2016 F150's and although not an official recall Ford was replacing faulty units. Hoping that's the case with mine.
I'll probably not get this explained very well, but here goes. Leaning the front tires in the direction of the turn improves turning radius. On a soft surface it will also improve the tire's ability to "bite" if the tire has good sharp lugs on the tread. Leaning the front tires in the opposite direction of the turn or "drag" improves the tire's ability to grab when on a solid, slick surface. Especially if the tires are well worn.
The front tires are worn Bridgestones with a rounded edge profile. I can see how winter specific tires would be a great help for steering in packed snow and ice. I'll have to experiment with leaning the tires the opposite way when making gradual turns while pushing snow.
When operating a rigid grader with a fully locked rear end I advise you to negotiate as many of your turns as possible in reverse. Pulling the steering end works a lot more effectively than pushing it if traversing icy terrain.
Back to fuel additives is there a negative to using winter fuel in the warm weather?Or is it just an additional cost to the fuel ?
They use #1 on the slope year around. Bad Bob
No issue. Especially, since most brands also contain a cetane improver and lubricant.
We recall hauling ULSD#2 to Deadhorse.
Apparently not as efficient so you don't get as much power and fuel consumption is higher. Can't really see how it would hurt the engine if it can run it fine in the winter when the engine is at the same operating temperature.
About 5 years ago i ran D1 all spring until july and had used it up. I had got it cheaper toward the end of winter. No power loss and no difference in consumption but i was only running my L10 at about 80% load for field work and seeding
The guy that towed my truck said Alberta starts blending diesel in mid August. He also said you can go online and see what fuel specs. specific stations have.
The winter fuel was drippin’ & upper management was trippin’ ! I tell you what. These viton gaskets don’t work well at -25F. Well, to be fair, I don’t either.
Genuine Victaulic model 75 galvy loaded with a buna N “T” gasket. That’s what I’m talking bout’. Made in Merica! Knowwhatimsayin? Don’t need viton here because I’m not dealing with B-anything or E-anything. I don’t cut my stuff. It’s the real-deal. I’ll fix up that leaky ol’e tanker. Cargo tanks big or small, ### LLC will fix them all!
I’m not a hack. Every repair gets air tested with soap&water leak detection methodology and pump tested. As per the 49 CFR blah, blah, blah. Can’t have that winter fuel dripping on the tundra. Ain’t nobody got time for that. If it ain’t tight, it ain’t right. !
If we're talking about #1, JD has recommended #1 only for starting above 5,000' elevation.
That’s not uncommon. #1 lacks the BTU’s. Engines don’t make the same power without the precious paraffin. #2 has what engines crave.
Oh’ boy. Another town, another leaky tanker. This gal has wide hips. She can pack a load. Changed a few clamps on the Streetside and Curbside pumping system. I think She’s tight. Time to rack her up and pump test with that winter diesel. It better be right. I’m outa parts, clean underwear and a long ways from home.
On a JD road grader there's a noticeable difference in HP when even running a 50/50 blend. I've never ran straight #1 so can't comment on that. So for my climate I treat #2 rather than run a blend.
Self Loaded Two grand of ULSD #1 this morning, over containment. No problems, except it was so cold in the D. Just a tad negative F, but the 80% humidity chilled to the bone. Not enough layers to cut that. Time to kick the tires and light the fires. Customer called. Cold house! Holy cow. Emergency fill. How about signing up for auto-fill, Ma’am? I don’t have time to drive 100 miles RT to fill your **** at a moments notice. How’s Tuesday work for you? Need another driver, but wow. Can’t find anyone who can pass a wiz quiz. Everyone is stoned all the time, too many DUI’s, too many felonies, they want to drive, but can’t pull a hose........ The struggle continues.
Speaking of drivers pulling their hoses, this fella managed to drive over a fairly new, 2” cold weather, aircraft refueler, single point. Talk about self abuse. Sure, I’m happy to wrap a replacement on, but you need to clean up the mess on the ramp.
Your description on trying to find a new driver is something we all face now a day's it seems, old school values and dedication and a bit of pride does not seem to exist, they are few and far between, not sure where our countries are going to be in a few years when the older crew with dedication retires.
For sure, for sure. Finding home heat delivery drivers has been tough for about the last 5 years. One outfit I know has resorted to providing a company pickup/P-card as a benefit. It’s a tough gig in the winter. Most rural families have dogs. Some have many dogs. Dragging hose through dog crap. Try to avoid it, but when you wind it up, no doubt the hose reel is going to fling it all over and then you get to wear it for your next delivery.