I'm sure this has been asked before, but I am lazy this morning and don't feel up to searching. This is my first winter with The Beast so I am just curious. With my ford 5000 tractor I used a magnetic plug-in heating element on the oil pan. It made a big difference in start-up. Plus I kept it in the barn mostly. The Beast is too big to fit in the barn, so it's gonna have to stay out all winter. What do you do or can you do to keep it healthy during the winter months? Lighter hydraulic fluid? Oil? Heating elements? Battery maintainer? Thanks in advance. r
Yes to the battery maintainer. How many times do you think you'll use it? If it is plowing snow several times then a mat heater on the oil pan is nice. It may have a coolant heater you have not found yet too. If it is not likely to get moved, maintain the battery and tarp it over so you can put a heater under it for the few times you want to use it. That method uses a lot of power and time, but the good part is this warms up everything.
I use my machine occasionally in the winter. It is outside for now as well . I put a battery maintainer on it (do that all year long), but do not do anything else. It has always started quickly for me. New holland sells a freeze plug block heater for these machines. I plan to install one someday, but not a rush as it has always started. When I do start it, I do warm it prior to use. Another thing that I do to all of my machines it top them off with fuel and add anti-gel to the whole tank. This will keep a bunch of condensation out of the fuel.
I use my hoe for plowing, so I bought a Minoston plug in remote for my block heater and I turn it on a half hour before I use it and right now I have the timer on it to come on for an hour every morning. It draws 12 amps ( clamp meter) so it doesn’t take long. I despise the magnetic tank heaters, had many of them fail, damn near causing fires. I did just completely flush the hydraulic system and got all the water out after changing a bunch of seals. When doing that I installed a boiler drain valve on the hydraulic tank and after using, I open it up and now I am only getting an ounce of water. I truly wish I had built either a taller garage or a 14’ high lean to, to get it out of the weather.
I wish it would stop raining so I could finish preping my pad for my shop!
That's the way it has been here all summer -- every third day. Couldn't even get out in the field to finish my trenching. If that pattern holds up, I would expect that rain to turn flaky...pppffffhhhhttt. Ann and I have been looking for something like this (a lean-to type shelter) all summer but could not find one we thought would be worth the expense. I'd like to have something more permanent too. I will put a maintainer on it and I bought a huge tarp. The heater method you describe is something I hadn't thought of - thanks. I will probably only use it occasionally, depending on how much snow we get, so we'll see. The block heater also sounds like something I should look into long term. For now, maybe the mat heater would be a good choice. I know from my tractor that keeping the oil and hydraulics warm makes a ton of difference. Seriously thank you all for your suggestions and what you do. It really helps.
Cold doesn't hurt batteries, in fact they last much longer in the cold. They will not have as much power available in the cold, so starting is much harder, but if they are just sitting, they don't need a charger. JD has a table that shows a fully charged battery will easily sit all winter and start in the spring without any draw, but will die in a couple months over the summer. Of course if you have to start it, getting everything warm will help. Or just the engine. Hydraulics if you can warm them up. Bring the battery inside overnight if you really want it to start. If you have water in oil or fuel, figure out how to get rid of it. There are plenty of ways, none cheap or easy, but not that hard or expensive either. edit: Be careful of additives. For instance power service red bottle "911" is an emergency product and not for preventive use, potentially harmful. Like batteries, storing fuel in the cold doesn't harm it, unless you have to start it at zero, then you'll want winter blend fuel or anti gel mixed in before it gets cold. If you won't use it much below freezing, the fuel will be fine. Or below 20, warm up the engine, then let it run ten minutes before using it to have a chance to warm the filters up.
Mine stays outside all winter, just some anti-gel fuel treatment and a block heater is all it gets. I do have a master cut-off at the battery box that I leave off to prevent any drain. If I want to use it, plug in the block heater for a while, fire it up, let it warm up and away we go. They are made to stay outside, being under a tarp could do as much harm as good (rodents, dampness, etc)
Just remember to put some winter fuel in before the temperature drops. I got caught last fall with 3/4 s of a tank of summer fuel and no winter fuel on site. I put a blanket and tarp over the hood and a light bulb against the fuel pump if it gets really cold. Cam
A block heater or circulating heater is best. A battery maintainer won't hurt. You could put a pad heater or your magnetic heater on the hyd. tank. Where I'm at you'd need to plug it in at least a couple hours. A 1/2 hour would be next to useless.
I'm in a similar boat. My hoe is now indoors (makes me feel much better about using it) but at a very high cost. Unfortunately, I have no power in the barn (yet) and certainly no heat. I fought cold startups last year when it got snowy and I'd really like to learn how to install a block heater of some variety. I think it's known that I'm not terribly mechanically competent with my hoe but I need to go take a look and see if I can figure out how one would be installed. There are a lot of different posts on HEF about block heaters but none sufficiently dumbed down enough for me, that I could find.
If I ever do my block heater, I will take pics and do a writeup. Not sure if yours is the same tho. You have a b95, correct?
I've got the 75. I need to go out and stare at the engine for a few minutes, I just haven't done it. I'm pretty sure if I take a picture of each side of the engine one of you guys will just say "you take out that plug and you jam this thing into it" I just don't know which plug. Maybe tonight will be the night.
Find the engine model, then go on a block heater website, like kats, or phillips temrow/zerostart, and search by engine model, it will show the heater model and directions for where and how to install it. If they don't have one, then you're stuck with a tank type heater hooked to ports with heater hoses, that's not bad, just a little different to install, and slightly less efficient.
Thanks Delmer! Uh, apparently last night was not the night. I forgot.
I looked up your machine on Messicks. I think you have the newer style engine than the E series backhoes. Anyhow, It looks like an easy install. Looks to thread into the block. On my machine, I need to knock out a freeze out plug in order to install it. If you go to one of the sites Delmar listed, maybe they have a cross reference. NH wants $134 for them. I suspect you can find it aftermarket for half that. am sure NH does not really make it anyhow. New Holland LB75 - TRACTOR LOADER BACKHOE(06/99 - 08/00) Parts BLOCK HEATER Part # 47126890 -BLOCK HEATER 120V, 15A, 1000W
I'm currently running No 2 Off-Road diesel and so far, the temps have not been cold enough to cause any issues - but I know that's about to change. I'll be looking for some anti-gel additive today. Unfortunately I have about 3/4 full tank and am not sure if the local truck stops are offering winter blends. I asked one of the attendants at my Marathon station and she got this glassy-eyed look on her face. Also found this article. I know it's old news for most of you, but it helped me understand what happens: Diesel gelling.
Swetz- you rock. The plug I'm thinking is in the side of my engine block does look Iike it'd accept something like that. rumblecloud- I didn't read the article but I dump some Howe's brand de-geller in every time I add some diesel as it starts to get chilly, it's cheap enough that I don't bother measuring it really, just pour some in. I'd assume there is a winter blend they start changing the pumps to around here but I'm not trusting it.
I live in eastern Ohio and leave my machine outside year round unfortunately. I’ve never had a problem with gelling at any temperature. It’s been like this for the past 4 winters with no issue. Keep the water out and treat your fuel with Biocide and Clear Diesel.
Aighead, if it is working for you great, but too much additive will thin the fuel out and make it run like crap also
Swetz, I think mine is the newer model, ser. #031062294. I looked around on Messicks but I'm not positive I'm looking at the right stuff. There is so much info there! I tried taking a picture of the engine badge itself but didn't have enough light, and I wasn't smart enough to take the keys so I could raise the loader and really see in there. One day!
I finally got the hoe out in the sun to take some pictures... I see, on the passenger side (American style), this white circle buried under a bunch of stuff. Then on the driver's side (American style) I see a couple plugs, that may release the coolant to hook up the barrel style heater? I don't think that's really what it's called. Do any of these options look correct for a block heater attachment point? Also, as a reminder, regardless of how hard you pull the parking break, it's always smart to put it in neutral before you Rev from the engine. I just got real lucky and didn't run myself over.
Yep, always use the parking brake. Have had them pop into gear if not properly clicked in groove for neu, least gives you a bit of time in 1st gear.
The last picture that plug is open and not leaking, so it's not coolant. The third picture looks a little small, I'll guess that's oil pressure? If you're looking to use a tank type with heater hoses, then you need ports similar to the second pic with the heater hose coming into the same place as the radiator return. I'd check around the water pump, and then towards the back of the head for any suitable coolant ports. If you want to use a block heater, the newer the engine, the more specialized they become, but if there is one, it will come with directions on where it's installed. It's not like the old days when you just needed one to fit a 1 3/4" core plug and you put it wherever you wanted.
Looking on Missicks using your SN, This one is what they show.
Just looking into this for my 555E and found one on Reliable Aftermarket Parts. But to help me understand, to install this type of heater, do you remove an existing freeze plug from the block and then press fit the heater part into where the freeze plug was removed? Seems simple enough and their price is only $42.99. Thanks for adding to my todo list
So, I'm an idiot and can't find that on Messicks website. I've looked through the site a fair amount and I'm doing searches and junk but can't figure out where that is found. I'm also staring at the post from @Swetz without being able to tell what view I'm looking at. When I compare my picture of the passenger side and that image they don't look the same, though I think it's a view of the passenger side. I'd imagine I don't need that whole kit as much as knowing the thread size of the heater I slap in there, assuming I can understand where it goes into the engine. edit- I'm a double idiot, now I see how I need to look through Messicks to find it. I was looking for block heater but I'm seeing the path should be 'Attachments-' then looking through the list.
W Wow, we switch over around September and until May or so. So.e places use winter blend year round. I do in my bulk.tank, not worth messing with summer fuel for only a few months.
I dont think it is you...In my mind, it should be in the engine or engine attachment section. NH (not Messicks) suck in the way the organize their parts. When I fixed my bucket leveling system, I found the parts under implement device???? Yea, not you!
Aighead, what’s your backhoe make, and type. Thought you had a Case?
The block heater in the messicks link that Swetz posted seems to have two nuts (so it's not a core plug?) but then the block seems to have two large core plugs where it goes, so I can't tell much unfortunately. If your engine block, head, water pump look similar to the picture, then you can be comfortable you have a similar enough engine that it will fit the same place. That seems like an unusually large flat spot with two large core plugs, so should be able to confirm or deny they're the same block.
@HarleyHappy I have a 2004 New Holland LB75B, with the later serial #031062294, as far as I can tell. @Delmer - I can't really tell if the holes in the picture refer to the same white circle in my first picture above or not, if so it looks like I'd have to remove half the engine to get to them (though maybe just pulling the hydraulic filter?) I watched a video of someone putting the tank style heater on his machine (of differing brand) and he drilled a hole into the side of the engine that apparently had coolant flowing through it, with which to add the line that would run through there. That doesn't seem very appealing to me, I'm confused enough with just the picture above, so I probably shouldn't drill random holes in the block.
The white circle is definitely a core plug, but looks like the hole it goes in is raised, instead of flat like the one in the diagram. I can't see enough other details to know if any of the rest lines up or not. I would not go drilling holes either, there are usually plenty of ports, just have to find the right ones. The small ones in line with oil pressure senders are likely into the oil passages. Most any other port that's a core plug or 1/2" or 3/4" NPT plug or similar will be suitable for a tank type heater hook up. Where the ports go isn't critical, nor is the size really (just don't hook into oil!), the only critical part is how the heater hangs in relation to the engine, but that's all done with heater hose, so easy to get right.
Man this is getting complicated. I just found a 3/4” NPT plug on side of block and took out, put block heater in with some Gasiola on it. Started up and filled coolant to full and works fine. It’s hard to tell in your pics and definitely looks a little crowded but I’m reasonably sure there’s got to be a place. I have put a couple of inline hose heaters and was never happy with them.
The one Swetz listed from Messics looks promising but the filter upside down is a little wierd.
Go to Zerostart and plug in NH under Heavy Duty and it comes up with a block, element heater with location on right side. The directions th come with it tell you exactly where to put it. Easy peasy.
Harley, You wrote that like it was no problem! I'm on my phone so maybe it's not compatible with their site but I had a pretty blank search page at zerostart. I'll check on a real computer here in a bit, thank you!
That’s why I asked what you had. On the Zerostart page it doesn’t seem to list what I think is your engine but you would know exactly what it is. When I go on their Engine look up page, for New Holland under Heavy Equipment it list 4 engines and when I look up your hoe it says 450 or something like that and 303CI so not sure what engine to put in. They all seem to have pics with location. When I b mine it came with instructions a a good pic of where to put it. If I remember right, it was only 50 bucks. That was before COVID and FJB.
Forgot, it’s under Phillips and Temro.
New Holland Block Heater Part # 47126890 BLOCK HEATER www.newhollandrochester.com There you go.
You are the man Harley! Thanks, I forgot to look on a real computer, but I'll try today. Thanks again, to you, and everyone else for steering me in the right direction!
Hi have anyone installed a circulation engine heater?i would like to see your instalation for a New Holland lb75
OK, this is marginally infuriating, and I can't express how much I appreciate everyone's help though I can't seem to find a lick of any of this info on my own. Harley, you said you saw a diagram of how the heater is installed on the Zerostart site? I can't even find my engine model on there. Looking at the dataplate on my engine it looks like I have a 5.0 liter 450 NB engine model. I can't seem to find that engine anywhere unless I'm just searching on Google like a dummy. Most places suggest that I've got a turbocharged engine while I'm not sure I do and they say it's like 4.7 liter or something. I've looked up "CNH 450 NB" and I don't find any real info, I've looked up 2004 NH LB75B engine specs and that comes up with stuff that doesn't match the dataplate. Not the best quality image, but zooming in gives the idea at what I'm looking at. You and Swetz are very kind with your time but the fact that I can't see what you guys seem to be seeing is making me bonkers. Now, as I look more into any info I can find about this engine it looks like it went on an LB85? Is it possible that the stickers on my boom are wrong and it's really an 85? Grr.
That’s why I was asking about your engine, seemed to be a unicorn. Either way you are completely overthinking this. lol. The block heaters are designed to fit on a wide range of machines and engines. It appears the one I sent you uses a jacket plug removal and it seems New Holland uses freeze plugs. I wouldn’t put too much thought in it. It was aggravating that I couldn’t find an exact exact engine match with Zerostart but honestly after installing a few block heaters and inline heaters they pretty much are universal. It looks like yours will install behind the filter on the passenger side 3rd freeze plug out from seat.
So, looking at Broken Tractor long block sets confirm you have a 304 non turbo, it seems. Screwed up stuff, I say. Seems they either measure it with liters or CID 5.0 liters or 304CID?
OK, it does seem weird and unicorny! I've looked and don't think I'm turbocharged, but the stickers on my machine have always looked a bit jenky, which makes me think maybe I have an LB85 instead of 75, I was able to see minimal info on the 5.0 liter engine pretty easily which appears to be tied more to the 85... Yes, haha! I'm sure I'm overthinking it! The amount of times I've tried finding anything accurate about this machine has made me feel dumb and I don't trust buying anything for it because I assume it'll be wrong. 304 CID would match up well with the 5.0 liter (at least as much as I remember from the 5.0 liter Mustangs back in the day. Is there a fancy tool to get that freeze plug out? I've said it a billion times now but I really appreciate the help!
You’re gonna laugh but out of 10 or 12 times I popped a freeze plug out the go in block about 40%, enough to **** me off fishing them out and crushing them enough to get out the damn hole. Lol Now I tack a nut to them with a mig welder and pop them out with a long bolt Lol Not that bad, just tap on it with a junk screwdriver or a punch and hopefully lever it out.. My dad used to grease a dill bit and drill a hole but then they came out with zip screws, self tappers and he used them till he retired. You would know if you had a turbo. Good luck.
Longest part of the job will be draining antifreeze. Good time to change it out. Dont use oil on the oring.
The ones I'm seeing look like they have an internal wing nut (that's probably not what it's called) like the kind that you'd run through drywall to hang something from, so it looks like access may be tough but not miserable to get it in there and attach it. That'd be cool. I have a few more weeks of what appears to be warm enough weather, I should get on it. Thanks again!
To remove the core plugs, use a punch and hammer, get it to rotate 90ish degrees and pull it out with pliers.
Locking pilers (vise-grips) work good to pull out the cup plugs too.
I didn't get a chance to go out yesterday and measure my hole... Hopefully, I'll get out there with a flashlight today so I can get something ordered. Are there any suggested wattages I should aim for? I think I saw something that said 600W but I don't know if that's strong enough?
600 is common.
The element on the immersion/ core plug type block heater usually has to be oriented in a specific direction (clocked) so as to not interfere with the internal cylinder casting/liner.
If it’s ordered engine specific, it will tell you what rotation. Objective is to make sure it’s not hitting inside of block or they will burn out. It may just be my luck but anything from Katz doesn’t last long.
Phillips/Temco is what I've used. Just bought a 1000 watt one for a hydraulic tank. Have burned out 2 or 3 of the stick on pads, at $175 each. Last one caught fire even!
Thanks guys! I saw, on one I was looking at, that they specified a direction and I thought that was interesting. I also saw, which is why I don't want to try them, the stick on pads catching fire. It would likely light up my whole barn before I realized, so that one is out too! And, not from Katz, got it!
Man, I have probably had 10 or 12 of those 500watt Katz tank heaters over the last 15 years and everyone goes tits up and had at least 3 burn up and melt. Wish I could find a good one I could trust. Last one, had on the side of my 580 on the hydraulic tank hooked up to a timer for every morning and SOB burned the paint off the side of the tank about the size of a frisbee. Timer sent a push at 1 am last winter and I looked at it, rolled over and went back to bed. Got lucky, bought a lottery ticket next morning. lol
Yeah man, that doesn't sound very cool. There isn't anything close enough to the backhoe to worry about setting on fire but I don't really want to melt a bunch of hoses and junk too.
Not sure why I have such an issue with them. I know other people that swear by Katz heaters.
Post a pic of your tank type heater and the connections. Usually they're more than 500W, they lose a little more heat being exposed, so 1,000-1,500W is common.
I was going to buy another one but haven’t as my block heater works very well. I would like to do something for the hydraulic fluid as when using for snow, it takes quite a while for the hydraulic filter light to go out. The brakes are very stiff and so is the loader controls until the fluid warms up. Was thinking of trying a pad type inside under the side panel but not sure it would be effective. Has brand new filter and fluid and no water in it. Not sure of my best options. I do know, even the 1500watt magnet types are not very efficient as if you leave it on all night on a 20 gallon HPU it only will raise the temp about 5 degrees. I use 12 nightly on HPU’s at work, ranging from 20 to 200 gallon HPU’s, so I have actually recorded the data. Thinking about putting a block type in my Case on the 3/4” npt drain but not very smart, I think.
Most of the pad type heaters are designed to be used on the bottom of an oil pan or tank thereby the heat goes up into the tank. If mounted on the side they are not efficient and may overheat and burn out. Just my 2 cents
A little bird told me that a water heater element fits 1" NPT, and if you hook up a 240v element to 120V it will put out 1/4 the wattage at 1/2 the amps, under 15A conveniently. I agree, block heaters work better than tank heaters if the engine will take one.
I went out and measured my hole to the best of my ability and I'm pretty sure it's 1.5", thusly I found this: Zerostart 3100045 Freeze Plug Engine Block Heater for Caterpillar, Detroit, Massey Ferguson, Perkins, 1-1/2-Inch Diameter | CSA Approved | 120 Volts | 600 Watts https://a.co/d/a9Qaiuk Good enough for government work? And the hole I measured was the white one I put in the picture above, agreed? Safe to assume I'll have to pull that filter? Can I reinstall the same filter back on, it probably only has a couple hundred hours on it.
If you can, please post some pics of the job if and when you get to it, to help a=holes like me