QUESTION: I went on line to see who has the best aftermarket cast aluminum pan for my 3500 diesel pull truck (hauling equipment on trailers, not like harvest festival and truck show mud bogs). I see a lot of "For" and the same amount of "Against" for switching in a deep aluminum transmission pan over the stock pressed out tin pan. Some people claim that the extra fluid (4+ quarts) is better with the aluminum cooling fins. The pan also add strength to the case. Others claim the extra weight and the extra fluid does nothing but cost a lot of cash and you are better off with a aux transmission cooler and electric fan set up. The cast pan does not add any strength to the case under high torque conditions. Everyone agrees on the drain pan plug option as a lot of stock pans do not have this. What is your opinion?
+1 for aux cooler and fan, even just an aux cooler located "in the breeze" is going to do more for your trans than a pan. Now if you're running power adders like propane injection or overboosted turbos, a pan ain't gonna protect against grenading. Keep your converter cool and yer trans will be happy. BTW, which of the big 3 are we talking about?
3500 either Ram or GMC Ferd drops a zero, and a con rod, and a turbo seal, and that 6 -OH oil cooler. Just kidding!
You can weld a nut into your old pan and add a drain plug, 5/16" nut is enough. Copper washer to seal the bolt and you're done. External cooler will get rid of more heat than a cast pan with fins, put the cooler in line BEFORE the existing cooler so the fluid stays at operating temp. I've added lots of drain plugs over the years, definitely makes changing the fluid a neater job. Make sure you don't put it where it'll run into the valve body or something in the trans. Joe H
I put a Mag Hytec pan on my 06 GMC K3500 when it was new. I use it to tow boats and heavy equipment. I have never seen the trans temp over 180 degrees.
I'd say get rid of the pickup that you got and buy a Ford as they have no need of additional cooling because they have big enough trans coolers, might 06 6.0 diesel has two coolers standard. The additional oil capacity without extra cooling just makes you get heat soaked which might be good if you shut your truck off in the winter up north but other than that it gets you nowhere.
Are you having issues with your transmission overheating or are you thinking you’ll be proactive?
If you are running Ford, the 5r110 and up don't need anything added, as CF mentioned. That is 2003 behind the diesel and 2005 behind the gas. If you have an older Ford with the 4r100, you need the deep pan and all the coolers you can get. A 99-2002 Super Duty with the 4r100 will bolt a 6.0 cooler right in, it is about 3x the size as the tiny stock cooler
Having more than 10 Dmax ('05 & newer), I've never seen the need for an additional collar or deep pan.
So, the goal is to be proactive. Not start a war between whose truck is better. The truck has 168k on the clock. No issues with trans temp towing since new. As a matter of fact the trans sees years of towing. No troubles at all. Owning my welding and heavy equipment company I’ve owned every brand of trucks from the big 3. They all had trans issues. This particular truck is semi retired as a welding truck. Again, never any issues. Just being proactive. I’ve towed 18k with this truck throughout New England and never temps over 180f. But what I’ve noticed is every truck forum I go to the brand loyalty kicks in and lots of opinions and exaggerations kick in and the info gets lost. I figured a forum like this with real mechanics (like me)or people who actually drive their trucks the way they were designed for and not just a monthly dump run or a weekly Starbucks trip for the wife before a manicure. Lol.
I drive a 96 Dodge one ton with a V-10 and 46RE automatic trans. 246K on the clock. Camper, and towing packages installed from factory. Never any trans problems and that truck has had 30K behind it several times on both flat and hilly ground. Well over 100K are pulling something on a trailer. Never a transmission problem through all the years. Fluid and filter changes every first week of October biannually, and band adjustment once in it's lifetime. Nothing added other than Chrysler +4 ATF and either Napa, or Carquest filters. Universal joints are also original. I have yet to fully floorboard the accelerator pedal too. Maybe that is a player but when everybody with a Dodge pickup in the 90's was having a trans problem, I never did. Bad frame from rust is putting it down. It broke again yesterday pulling two Grasshopper mowers on my car trailer right in front of the left rear leaf spring hanger. Not going to fix it again so the hunt for a replacement is in full swing and it will be used for parts.
Out with it man, what truck are we talking about . . . . . . it does actually matter, they are not all the same. It's not a brand loyalty issue, they are not all the same, even within brands. Heymc said he hasn't had trouble with Duramax's, that's because they have the Allison behind them, really no problems there, and no need for additional cooling. The 4l80E, not so much. It was a decent trans, but not so much if you are going to run hard and heavy every day. There is not a generic answer to the question, it does matter what truck we are talking about.
I have an '03 Silverado 2500HD, 6.0 gas and 4l80e. 200k on the clock. Former municipal vehicle. Never pulled anything, and had every recommended service done. I just bought a 6200 lbs (dry) travel trailer. Should I add a cooler?
Allison's have their own problems too such as cracking the tail housing when you go off road, not taking any kind of extra power(that's across the board with pickups though). I'm sorry it's not a brand thing, fords have cooling figured out. I have done stupid things in them and I've never seen any sort of trans temp even like when Ive gone up to 30k combined weight several times for hours and 28800 on my personal truck from Texas to Kansas(pic in overload of the day). Ive power braked the truck to 20 psi boost and launched and tried to get unstuck in the mud for an hour with that trailer (12k srw truck 18k trailer) rocking back and forth on several locations. Like I said two huge coolers factory, one oil to air and one oil to water. That trip from Texas at 28800 I didn't even have a clutch fan, I had 2 fans from a ford flex in the truck. Engine ran very hot but I never saw any trans temp over normal. People say the 6.0 sucks but the things I've done in one people would never do in their own truck. Brand aside if you need or think you need more cooling get another oil to air and stick it in the front somewhere.
Yes, there is digital readout on that truck irc, do not under and circumstances let the trans get over the temp in the owners manual l, it will cook it immediately, your trans cooler is undersized.
You would be fine in Northern Wisconsin where we don't have much in the way of hills and 90 degrees is something that happens twice a year, Don't know much about Arizona except it is mostly a desert and deserts are hot . . .
You will never loose by adding an extra cooler and extra fluid volume. Heat is the number one enemy of a automatic, especially with age.
The rams I have use 2 trans coolers from factory. One is air and the other uses engine coolant. The biggest problem with heat build up is not getting the torque converter locked up. Once you reach lockup there is very little heat generated. I like the Aisin on my 5500 because it locks up by 25 mph and generates very little heat.
I have a ATS deep pan on my 06 duramax, adding extra fluid to the system has its benefits. But i also have bigger transmission cooler lines, and transmission cooler. That's where you'll get the most benefit. My built trans i never see it get warm, not even going up mountain passes towing. EGT's are my limiting factor.
Mobiltech is correct. On my old 727 it had a high stall from factory, 11" converter that didn't lockup till around 2200. I custom built it with a dash 2 shift kit and had a 12" converter built for it {normally used in big blocks Dodge} with a lockup of 1400. No heat and it had great throttle response.
If you have a newer truck always drive with the fart button on, it saves your turbo from getting stuck and probably tries to lock your converter as soon as it can.
FWIW, we have a 2000 7.3 crew-cab short-bed with 320,000 miles that for the last 200,000 has been used primarily as a grocery getter (some people have boats but I live on the salt and have a pickup with a bumper-pull equipment trailer). At about 125,000 miles, the son then owning it put a larger xmission oil pan on it, and we've never had a bit of trouble from the original xmission.
In my humble opinion if you've gone nearly 170,000 miles without incident or seeing any heat issues it doesn't seem like there's a problem to solve. I honestly don't think there would be a lot to complain about if the transmission did fail at this point, that's a pretty good run on a truck that's working. I had a 4R100 that failed twice within the warranty period and third time I had an aftermarket trans put in that was beefed up. It's still in it today. In comparison the 6R140 I had went 135,000 trouble free miles until I sold it and the current owner is still running it with no issues. That truck had a transmission temp gauge and I never saw it approach the hot side plus I had it serviced every 50,000 miles. The only reason I can think to do what you're considering is personal satisfaction.
Unfortunately with fords you can't trust the gauges in the cluster they lie to you, you have to get a Bluetooth adapter and read the live data to see what's really going on, seeing the trans temp guage never move would be normal and I have never seen one move on a Ford irc even though the temp might be higher than a normal reading.
There's such a thing as running the trans too cool. It's been recommended to me more than once to either run an auxilery cooler or a deep pan, but not both. The ups and downs of both have already been mentioned Depending on what kind of filter the trans has already an auxilery can help quite a bit. If it's just got a metal screen it's not catching anything but the largest chunks
Trans should have thermostats in them......at least the ford does.
The older Fords did not. C6 has nothing, the E4OD and 4R100 bypass worked on pressure, not temp
Original Poster here: so thank you for all the info. With just about 170k on the clock and now the wife and I are going to use the truck to pull our new toy hauler. With both quads were are just about 9,000lbs. My concern is dropping the heat caused from pulling for 500miles to 1000miles to our destinations. At this point in time I don’t want to loose a transmission due to converter heat because as things get older they tend to slip a tad more, causing more heat. The trans has a spin on filter and a typical pan filter all factory. Pan capacity is 6 quarts. Diesel converter is like 8(or more) but I cannot drain the converter. I run the synthetic fluid ATF+4 in the trans and the transfer case. I’m probably going to do a full flush and filter before the first camp trip in a few weeks. I can go from there. Thank you again. Syleng1
I have a deep trans pan BD on my 08 6.7 Ram I'd say it might help a tiny bit to keep cool but not much. The biggest issue with the diesel Rams is the 68RFE design the engineer quit. It only sends fluid to cooler during TCC lock up so when towing heavy like I have 20,000 lbs up a hill even when you downshift to 5th or 4th it's gonna slip in and out of lockup get hot real quick. You gotta watch temps it will jump quick once past 220 degrees. It's the Achilles heel of the Ram Diesels and don't get me started in that AS68RC Japanese Aisin from a Range Rover used in the 4500 and 5500 CC trucks very cheap design. Ford diesels you gotta take the cab off and have that Bosch CP4 pump that blows up class action lawsuit going on same with the Duramax same CP4. So pick your problems you want to deal with and choose your truck.
This 500 hp 20k pump and trailer weighed 20k towed back to Nevada from Ga lots of hills to watch the transmission temps jump up fast. Some hills took 3rd gear the transmission slips in and out of full lockup so it's doesn't break anything. I bought this truck from Copart said it ran and drove total lie transmission was shot. I had to drop the transmission 3 times 68RFE never rebuilt a transmission before the clutch discs are paper thin and you can fry the OD clutches in 10 mins. Lots of how to videos on YouTube but they leave out important details I didn't tap all the snap rings fully in grooves first time and second time i was very rough installing piston seals in trans and cut one didn't use proper tools or seat them correct. Most shops don't want to deal with the 68RFE it's easy to mess up and will fry itself in 5 minutes if something not correct. But 3rd time was the charm to drop it what's important is a trans sump and oil temp monitor such as a scan gauge 2 to watch your temps and going up hills if it gets too hot you gotta stop or you will destroy the OD clutches it's easy to do. This truck had spacers on rear wheels didn't give much thought but it totally changes the camber and load rating for rear lugs I snapped them off clean in Texas one wheel a time. So when you see these Rams with huge wide rear wheels with spacers know they can't tow **** because the rear lugs will snap sooner or later. Lol
Spacers don't change camber unless they are moving the wheels out enough to cause the axle to flex.
You can't adjust camber anyway on rear dually axle but the spacers definitely reduced the load the lugs could handle. Snapped lugs off clean flush towing a trailer with equipment had to take 4 lugs off front hub to get to truck stop middle of nowhere another trip when I figured it out. This trip I busted the rear lugs off hub right at the Amarillo Big Texan steak house exit one of my rear wheels passed me went into a field the inner barely on but I put spacer back on when I put new lugs on in parking area.
Snapped clean
Spacers are for toys . . .
I know that now lol they were on truck when I bought it.
This pic is the second time other rear wheel lugs totally sheared off wheel rolled off into a field 150 yards jumped a fence towing prob 13,000 lbs. In case anyone is wondering you need to pull axle, caliper and mount, then hub, take disc off hub then hammer out studs not very fun on I40 East shoulder traffic and trucks going by 70mph of Route 66 Casino NM about 10 miles. But took 4 out of front hub got me the truck stop to get new lugs and do proper repair. Would have been very expensive for a tow and would have had to leave trailer. Never found the spacer but since I took them both out no more busted lugs.
It helps to go through the truck before you start going cross country with it. Usually the first thing you have to do with a new truck is go through and start undoing all the stupid nonsense people have done to it . . .
Put an aftermarket temp gauge in, keep your foot out of it (stop trying to pass everyone) and then if it you see signs of heating put in a cooler.
True I did bought the truck at Copart Sacramento said run and drive looked good in pics was during Covid wouldn't let me drive it out I would have passed all the check engine lights and obvious problems but once past the gate i was stuck already paid barely made it to Vegas. I had to rebuild the transmission, remove EGR added 50 hp, had other issues dead electronic throttle. Put new water pump, ac compressor, condenser etc was mechanically sound. Truck had air bags, front steering brace bar other mods drove nice after I fixed mechanical issues. The spacers on rear wheels gave a wide rear look track didn't occur they would significantly reduce the load it could take found out soon enough when they snapped the lugs. The first time lugs snapped in Amarillo towing that 20k pump there was enough thread i could throw a nut on drive it with one rear wheel to the Big Texan Steak house truck parking drop the trailer drive to auto parts store get 8 new wheel studs. Second time other wheel pass side near Route 66 casino NM snapped flush. So when I see these Dually rams and Fords with fat spacers on rear wheels they have that super wide look you know they can't tow anything over 5000 lbs without snapping the lugs off.
If you buy the proper spacers you can tow the same. All duallys have factory spacers in the front btw
Getting off topic here but if anyone is ever passing through Amarillo hit up the Big Texan where I fixed this truck best steak good beer and hospitality.
These spacers very thin aluminum maybe 1/4" that went in between inner wheel and outer wheel just that much added considerable stress on the lugs towing heavy causing them to snap off both sides. This wasn't some rusty truck from back East that had weak studs had no rust they snapped clean.
Those are not proper spacers, they took a hub centric system and made it lug centric. Buy proper spacers and get a proper result.
My Dodge doesn't have any kind of spacers between the wheels; never has, nor are there any on the front. They are unimount or hub pilot whichever term is correct for the style with the flange head lug nuts. I've never busted any studs but the wheels on the rear are an SOB each time I take them off. Always rusted together and must be pried from the hub, and apart from each other. Anti-seize doesn't seem to have much effect over the duration the tires remain untouched.
All pickup duallys have factory spacers on the front
Mine never has had. Wheels fit right against the pilot ring and hub face retained by free spinning flange face style lug nuts. Rockwell wheels which are OEM to the truck I purchased new.
Nice
Back to the original topic: OP: here. Just back- 600mile run to Jerrico Mnt and back with the toy hauler, 2 quads and gear. Truck ran amazing. Average transmission temp was 160f. Right before we left I changed the trans fluid and filters. Mopar ATF +4 and the Transfer case fluid with the Borg and Warner oil. It was about 5,000 early but fluid is cheap. Kept factory pan and no issues. Thank you all for the help. Syleng1