My backhoe has 2 leaky cylinders: the main big boom one and the secondary, that goes out to the stick. I know that if I try to fix them it will take months, be frustrating, and I may not do it right, so I called a guy. He was very responsive and friendly but he was also selling me something. I could see this being a good relationship for them to reseal (he claims to do everything to get them back to, basically, new) the cylinders, including removal and reinstall. Claims to rehone if needed etc. He gave me a price that was higher than I expected but I don't know if it's out of the ordinary. You guys are pros, what are you paying if you have to pay someone to do it? Again, including removal, rebuild, and reinstall. Thanks for your input!
Last year I took my 555E swing cylinder to a shop and I provided the seals. It was $350 or somewhere around that for the rebuild. Mind you I took the cylinder off the machine and reinstalled it. This was considered small as the cylinder is only 2 ft long. The bigger ones would be considered large so I would guess my price would double if I had to have them quote it.
I just had that mast cylinder redone on the forklift. They ball honed it and put it back together for me. The price with seals and everything was about 500. One of the boom cylinders on the excavator cost me closer to 2 grand.
If I take a smallish cylinder off the machine the labor to tear it down and re seal it would be 300+. If there are issues it will be more. If I just drop the machine off and make them pull the cylinder it would probably add a couple hundred. A seal kit from Cat is somewhere around $300, but that can vary.
OK, so we're closish. I'm learning a lesson with this one. In more ways than one. I just agreed to pay 3200 bucks to get both of these cylinders done, if I also help with the uninstall and reinstall. I assume I'm paying a grand or so for a lesson. Getting the job done quickly is worth a fair amount as well. We'll see how it goes. I asked how I knew it was honed and he said he can send pictures.
Not too bad I don't think. Many discount the actual cost of labor these days even when the task is easy. Had both swing cylinders rebuilt on my TLB and they were $218.00 with me dropping them off at the rebuilder. They have a load cell and do test their rebuilds thoroughly before sending them back which is included in their price. I never question the cost or why this, or that was replaced as I want the unit to work without compromise. Of course they treat me right as I've been using them over 35 years through two generations of ownership.
.... I think his prices are steep. I do this for a living - If I were doing a boom & dipper cyl on a Case hoe - I would have them both done (as long as the glands were not siezed with rust) in around 3-4hrs & without removing the entire cylinders. Add a little travel time & inc the seals - all under $1k .... if you offered to help it may cost you a little more
3000 is right where I was going to guess for the full job service call costs plenty and no one around here does cyl cheap if they were mine I could reseal them for a hundred or two but thats a long ways away from the full meal deal r+r cylinders and stand behind them
Ouch. I might call around and get another price. I’m doing the crowd cylinder on my 555E in a couple weeks and the kit cost me $70 from CEA. It should take 2 hrs at most to get the cylinder off and maybe 4-5 to fix it. He’s charging you 250 an hour….. maybe I’m in the wrong line of business.
The boom cylinder will be the most difficult to remove. I spent $1854.00cad. getting the bucket cylinders for my 931B done and that included straightening and re-chroming. I took them off and I think the shop hosed me on the re-chroming and straightening. Apparently Cat cylinders have thicker hard chrome and can be polished more than some other cylinders. If your machine isn't what you make your living with, I doubt you need the barrels honed. If just the rods could be pulled out would save a bunch of money. The stick cylinder isn't too big of a deal to remove if you have to. $3200.00 does sound pretty high. I agree with shopping around.
Some of the case cylinders that I have done have been son of a guns! The glands on the boom and stick cylinders have the tendency to rust and be very difficult to remove (had to heat several something I don't like to do) and the ones with bolt on pistons and nasty to remove as well. My price would be $1000 each on the high side and $500 each on the low side provided the rods are good.
The man quoted his price, and he says it will be a top quality repair. The only way you will get hosed is if the repair is poor or if he surcharges for things he said were included. If a fellow doesn't like the price, he should do it himself or find somebody with a price he likes. I get calls like that all the time: "I could rent a machine and do it myself for $$$$" or "Another guy said he will do it for $$$$". Then go rent your machine or hire the other guy . . .
Same for me. $3200.00 is probably a full turn key project. I have to quote the same way. The thing is.........are you going to be charged $3200 regardless of what he does? You may be paying for a simple reseal job with no honing in which that is way overpriced in my opinion.
Wow, at those prices I’d be broke. Between the backhoe and dozer I think I resealed 12-14 cylinders, using all OEM Case parts, seal kits were $120-150 ea. Takes me about 1hr to reseal one if everything comes apart well. Most cylinders I leave on the machine. I’d learn to do it yourself, its a good skill to have and apparently can save a bunch of money.
Having anyone come to the machine location and remove and replace your cylinders is going to be a major part of that quote you agreed to pay. Especially with the price of hydraulic oil nowadays. I think that is a lot of to charge tho. Especially if the cylinders don't need honing.
Man, that’s too much. I have seen some of the work you have done on that 580SE and you can do it yourself. I have done a few already and used Amazon seals, never again. I have 5 more to do on the hoe and while I wish I had help, gonna just do them myself. I think I’m going to order the whole kit from Dale and do them a couple at a time. Right now I just put a gallon of Lucas Hydraulic stop leak and they really aren’t even leaking right now.
I agree with MG84 and do them yourself. I’m in the process of doing all 12 on my 580C. Its not that bad of a job if you have all the right tools and leave them on the machine if possible. Got all the seal kits (USA made) from Dale at a very reasonable price.
Thanks guys. I've made the deal with him and after reading through all your posts I feel mostly ok about it. He said he's going to hone regardless. I think the price is high but the learning experience for me should do wonders. This will help me be less intimidated next time one comes up leaky. A big concern for me is actually doing it and relatively quickly. I know that I'll leave parts sit around and procrastinate while my wife gets frustrated with me, so this will certainly help that. A happy wife is worth a few hundred bucks. I really appreciate the input, it helps a big know-nothing, like me, learn!
I think the price seems high because of the service call and completely removing the cylinders. That could be $1000 of the quote.
He's taking responsibility for the whole job, that doesn't come cheap. On the other hand, I'm not worried about putting new seals in the boom and stick cylinders of a 40 year old machine without honing. The gland seals you take out might be in small pieces, it's no mystery why they leaked. Not like an unexpected leaker that you assume was damaged, or a bucket or swing cylinder that is more likely to get the rod scratched.
I'm in New England where it never is "cheap." I've done this job for many over the years in my company. The customer wants the job done start to finish. They want to know it will not leak a year after. So really not knowing the size of the cylinders and the year and make of the machine, the quote is tough. I'd be more worried about them standing behind their repair than the overall cost. Sometimes dealing with the fall out after the repair is worth every penny when they call back right away and say "we will be right over... we are so sorry you are have troubles." You forget about the high price and are happy you stroked the check.
I was, perhaps (likely), upsold, for the honing process. As a know-nothing I don't know how likely it is that the tubes really need it but I assume it can't be a bad thing, after 4700ish hours it may be a good time to start fresh with them. He was pretty unwilling to remove that process from the job, saying that it wouldn't make sense to re-seal if the tubes were bad and would just chop more holes in the seals. He's also guaranteeing them for 2 years, which seems ok.
I’m not sure that I would consider honing the cylinders out. While I have resealed quite a few cylinders over the years, I have only ball brushed a few. Never considered it on an older backhoe.
He is right, especially as a shop that has to stand behind his repair.
I agree, 2 year guarantee means he's going to do it right to avoid doing it again. Just looking at the cylinders though, they're leaking from around the rod, right? You can see the rod and it's either smooth or scratched. If they're not settling in use, then the piston is not leaking, and you could take them apart and just replace the gland seals, they are more exposed and leak more often than the piston seals, but you wouldn't do that because you have it all apart already. The cylinder bore doesn't have much to do with the gland leaking.
Many vendors purposely quote high. Given this is a turn key job, and there are seemingly variable labor functions that may or may not be performed upon need, the end cost may be variable. I cannot imagine a shop quoting "honing", and not charging for it unless included SOP for them. It was mentioned "if needed" so will they charge for something they don't do? I don't really think so. It will be interesting to learn of your final cost for the rebuild service. Given the service call charge, and labor charges on top of the parts costs, Although it is seemingly priced high, I don't think this job is out of line on the retail level. What is the shop labor rate at an automotive dealership these days in your area? Mine is $125.00 to $145.00 an hour. Construction dealerships are right at $175.00 an hour here and that doesn't matter if your place or theirs after the service call charge. There is a lot that goes on in the background the end user has no clue about. Bead blasting the glands, solvent flushing of components, effective load testing after rebuild are just a few I know my rebuilt cylinders go through and if they pass their testing, I know they are not going to leak after reinstalled onto a machine. Peace of mind to me worthy of a little additional cost.
When I called around I was told $1000 each for a simple seal job on my CTL arm cylinders and that was bringing them the cylinders off the machine, and the price would go up if any damage, seemed insane but was told parts were $200 each and it's "a lot of labour". Dealer was around $100 each for parts and I did them myself. Never touched a cylinder before and the first took like 3 hours, the second maybe 1.5 hours and never leaked again in the few years I owned it after. Realized how badly they were trying to hose me. I have the bucket cylinder leaking on my 210 and thinking i'll probably do it myself, a lot more intimidating because of the size, but I bet a shop wants a arm and a leg for the few hours work and i'd rather not take it off the machine.
The big nut is where it gets interesting. I tried to do the blade cylinder on my mini a few months ago; couldn't break the nut free with anything I had, including a good deal of heat and using the mini to reef on the 3/4 drive snap on ratchet with the 3' handle and a 6 or 8 foot pipe on it. I quit before something broke and caused grievous bodily harm and took it to a shop where they had a cylinder bench with a hydraulic torque wrench.
If I offered to overhaul the engine in your puddle jumper car for that, I'd hear screaming and there is way more involved work doing that even after you had it removed for me. Not real recent but I've done many resealing cylinders D8 blade and ripper, I would have loved to get that kind of $ for it back in the day. The most difficult part of the job is the piston to rod nut torque. Hyd cylinders are simple stuff compared to other way more difficult things to work on. And like other parts if they need machine work and you don't have the machines you either figure a way or pay to machine it. Did I read something about a ball hone? I don't think I'd want to use one of those, matter of fact I have never ever used one.
I just did the bucket tilt cylinders on my Cat 931B, they are 3-1/2" bore cylinder with 2" shaft and the shaft is around 36" long. As I'm semi-retired and not super-rich, I wanted to keep the costs to a minimum. I removed the cylinders myself (20 mins each), took them fully apart myself (they're a simple design with just a screw-on crown on the cylinder, and a single 1" bolt holding the piston onto the shaft). That took me around another 45 mins (each). Then I removed all the seals (some fell out in pieces), and pressure-washed all the components, and then examined the cylinder bores. They were in fairly good shape, with the important feature being no long scratches or scars inside the bore. I then ran a ball hone through the entire length of the cylinder for around 15 mins, until I was happy with the smooth finish. Not all cylinders need stone honing, they have to be very badly worn to need that. The shafts were in poor shape with a lot of scores and gouge marks (from gravel and dirt falling over the back of the bucket), so I decided they needed replacing. I went to a local chrome shafting supplier and picked up 2 x lengths of 2" chrome shaft for AU$200 for the two lengths. A local hydraulics repairer had quoted me $300 to cut each eye off the old shaft and weld it to the new shaft - but I gave the job to a semi-retired buddy who has excellent machining skills (and who needed the work and the money) - and he cut the eyes off, welded the new shafts on, and drilled and tapped the hole in the inside end of the shaft for the retaining bolt. I paid him the same money - AU$600 for the 2 jobs. I picked up 2 new genuine Cat seal kits for an average of AU$50 each (one off eBay and one from a local NOS parts dealer) - fitted all the new seals and re-assembled the cylinders. All up, probably about 4 hrs re-assembly work in total, and they're finished and ready to re-install - which will take about 1/2 hr. So, the total financial outlay for me, for these two bucket tilt cylinder repairs has come to AU$700 (plus a lick of paint), and around 2/3rds of a days work on my part. I don't place much value on my time, but even if I paid myself $500 a day, the whole repair job for the 2 cylinders would still only be around AU$1000. I also needed to replace the 4 flexible hydraulic hoses that are attached to these cylinders - but I had a roll of new Gates 4-spiral wire hydraulic hose on hand that I'd bought cheap at auction, so I cut off 4 sections of the correct length, and took them to a hydraulic hose repairer/supplier, who supplied 4 new hose fittings, and who crimped them on as part of the deal. The 4 hoses cost me AU$280 for the supplier to supply the fittings and crimp them on. I guess if I had to pay someone to do all the work I did, I would expect the cost would have been over AU$2000 for the 2 cylinders. When people supply their full services, you need to help pay for all their tools and equipment they use on your job.
I must be missing something here with the honing of the cylinders. Why would you want the kind of rough surface a hone leaves? Cyl seals are soft material, they're not cast iron like piston rings. They are going to wear against that rough surface, not polish it like a piston ring does. So what am I missing? Joe H
New cylinder barrels are honed and the surface is not rough. Don't confuse engine cylinder honing with hydraulics as they are similar, but much different. Many cylinder barrels are 'lapped" after honing to yield both a proper dimension and a surface finish in microinches.
Honing will provide whatever surface finish is desired. For cylinders with a large length/diameter ratio honing is the preferred method of finishing.
Cross hatch he says? I agree with the 2 posts above.
So not the kind of hone I'm familiar with, wish the video would have had a shot of the finished product. Joe H
I would think brand new cylinders must require some kind of honing or polishing and honing when seals are replaced restores the surface to like new. The cross hatch pattern could much finer than for piston rings. Whether a rebuilt cylinder that isn't used as a money maker needs to be honed after a basic seal replacement is the question. Many times the bore is fine and doesn't require the extra expense of honing. If there were noticeable scratches then they should be honed. On a bigger machine that is used for production, honing is best to insure the longest trouble free life of the rebuilt cylinder.
The nut torque is what scared me but from looking that's not an issue on some cylinders as they use a second nut threaded the opposite way and others use a set screw.
If you can pull the rods go to Sterling Hydraulics and they can change the seals and retorque the nut/bolt for the piston. As long as you're OK with not having a warranty if it leaks after you put it back together yourself I think they would do it. They did for me on my 4 in 1 bucket cylinders. About $93 each for seals and an hour labour each to replace them. They said the rods looked good. The labour was just for replacing the seals with no polishing. The reason I had them done was because they were leaking out the gland losing oil and dirt falls on them fairly often. Also wondering how you made out on your Western Star dump truck?
We have two shops near my work. One always charges three hours plus seals and we pay $270ish. The other company across the street does the same thing and they charge us around 1K every time. Keep shopping for another shop. These prices are for us delivering the cylinder right to them. I live near Ashland, VA
Check the price of a new cylinder on the surplus center website. Few years back I just replaced them for my little backhoe/trencher machine.
Industrial hyd. cylinders are a different animal than general purpose or AG type cylinders. Cylinders on a full size backhoe could cost a couple thousand bucks each depending which cylinder it is. I was shocked when I heard a new bucket cylinder for my 931B is probably in the $2500cad. range or more.
If i'm going to go that far I might as well do it all myself, changing the seals was easy i'm more concerned about pulling the rod out/back in. It's still sitting in my yard. I bought the international and using that. I am trying to sell it as-is and if it doesn't sell soon it's going to the auction cause i'm tired of looking at it.
Probably way more. Arm cylinder for 75 hp skidsteer was $2k at dealer and it's a tiny cylinder.
At the cat dealer I worked all cylinders had to be removed and taken to the RA shop witch was basically a component shop and re sealed because they wanted them honed. More then once I seen them take way more time getting a pin out them it would have taken be to unbolt the head and have new seals in it and back together. Assuming it didn't have any scaring or other issues. But 3200 to do 2 backhoe cylinders again assuming all that was needed was a seal kit seems a bit steep to me.
Don't forget the service call to remove and then come back and install them.
The hardest part is loosening the piston nut or bolt and properly torquing it. It's worth having done if they only charge an hour or hour and a half to do all the seals. Did the shop that took your engine apart go through with their threats of taking you to court? I still think you should have paid the $25 to file a suit against them. They shouldn't have taken your truck apart without your approval.
Well, we took the 2 cylinders off last night. We were kind of poking along and bs'ing but it took around 4 hours and I've never been so greasy. The best lesson I learned was good blocking to keep cylinders from just dropping. Knocking the pins out was pretty easy (he did most of the hammering). We only had to fight the upper cylinder a bit to get it out. I'm much less apprehensive should I ever want to change hoe buckets now.
Mostly I've done them myself, only take them to a hydraulic shop if I can't handle it. Biggest challenge is dismantling without a proper fixture. A real shop will have equipment to turn big high torque nuts & tricky gland plugs. My Case backhoes have only two holes in the face of the gland, uses a special spanner. First boom cylinder we did, it was a homemade spanner with a ten foot handle. Took me & Seth all day to free it. We had to use heat, a smoky, messy process. These have about a 6" long fine thread. We got it out a way & it had red Loctite. Miserable job. Different backhoe, same boom cylinder, I believe it had been shot. Looked like a bullet dented the barrel of the cylinder. I took it to a faraway hydraulic shop. they built a new barrel & piston, cost $1300. Another cylinder, stabilizer cylinder in this case, we rattled on the piston bolt with a 1" impact wrench an hour, couldn't make it budge. I took it to the same hydraulic shop. They had a hydraulic "wrench". Broke three Chinese sockets before explaining the old owner took much of his tooling with him. Hydraulic shop in Eastern New York State, I called the Case dealer in Western New Hampshire, 100 miles away. The service manager said "Get it here by 4:00, we'll do it today. I rolled in about 4:06, 5:55 I was on my way home with a rebuilt cylinder with a wet coat of paint. If I recall it cost about $250. for them to seal it. I had bought the seal kit from them earlier.
The only real struggle we had, that my guy commented on, was how tight the hydraulic lines were. We opened 4 of them, I think, and he said all were way tighter than they needed to be. I know the couple times I've replaced hoses I made them as tight as I could. He said that was unnecessary, hand-tight, then a little more.
Someone mentioned on here that once a fitting has been overly tightened it may have to be tightened that tight again so it doesn't leak. I think the flare gets slightly deformed.
The prices are not that bad,it varies cos it rises and fall so fast
So... I continue to wait. His responsiveness has dropped off. I've sent him a couple texts and he replies but I'm starting to get nervous about getting my hoe back in action. The last communication we had was him saying he wanted to call me to describe the trouble he's had, but that hasn't happened yet. This is a shame, he seems like a good guy and knowledgeable but I'm now starting to get tired of waiting on him. Theoretically, I have his address, should I need it. I hope I don't. It'll be 2 weeks that he's had the cylinders, tomorrow, and I need to get some stuff done. He was pretty excited to get this job started and made it sound like it'd be done in a few days. He also claimed he had some much bigger jobs lined up but would work my cylinders in (not to mention a claim of family in the hospital getting brain surgery). Not sure what is true and what isn't. He has not been paid a dime, yet. Again, I'm learning lessons.
Wow; never expected to read any of this. I would put a call in and state you need to get the machine back in action and if he's not got the cylinders opened up, offer to take them someplace else. Express the critical need without anger, or arrogance/belligerence. Just kind of force the issue for an accurate update or status.
YIKES!!!! I believe I would get those cylinders picked up soon. Do you have a local dealer that can do the reseal? Hell, ANY dealer can reseal those if you supply the seal kits.
I've found hydraulic rebuilder companies are BUSY. Winter is when contractors take care of issues that can wait. Less proactive owners wait for summer, combined with the work load of a machine that unexpectedly breaks, their work load rises sharply! Cassella is the big trash hauler over a large region in several states. They also have a big earthmoving operation in VT. They have a hydraulic shop also. They are the only hydraulic shop in this area. The shop was run my identical twins. They have been notoriously slow to do work for low volume customers. One brother went on his own. A few weeks after he left Cassella, I needed a new barrel for a cylinder. I approached him about it & was disappointed to see a build up of work waiting for his attention. I left it with him, & called after a few weeks. He gave promises, but didn't keep them. I called weekly a few more weeks. Finally he told me he was buried in work. A BIG limestone operation wanted him 4 days a week & were pressuring him for 5. Other hydraulic shops gave similar answers. I needed a machinist, I could disassemble & reassemble. I spoke to a few machine shops. Most were weeks or months out. I tracked down a NOS replacement in California. $2800. plus shipping, plus tax. I bought it & it arrived defective. It was a problem I could resolve, but I felt the price too steep for a defective part. It was take it or leave it. They did have two more they would send. I asked for a photo & the others were the same as the first. I sent it back. Seth went back on the computer searched for component parts for this cylinder. This time he got a hit 70 miles from home. New barrel, and a packing kit were under $400. including shipping & tax. I fear you need to become a mechanic to reseal your cylinders.
Your comments are my concerns Willie. IF he's telling the truth I could understand being busy and he mentioned some clients that, again, if true could keep him quite busy. I'm really ok with that but if that's the case he left me with different expectations... I'll give him a call and get an update. I've got to figure, if nothing else, he wants paid.
It almost sounds like the guy hasn't done many cylinders like your's before and it's not going as easy as he thought. I like the idea of saying you have a job that needs to be done by such and such a time in order to gently push him to give your job more priority. If he can't give you a reasonable time, pick them up and go somewhere else.
Too many people over-estimate their ability to complete repair jobs, and too many take on more work than they can complete within a satisfactory time frame. I know I've been guilty of this, and I'm no orphan. It's time to call him and cordially express your dissatisfaction with his performance, and set a firm date for return of the completed job - and notification that if the new deadline isn't met, you will take back control of the job and hand it to someone else, or finish it yourself.
One man shops are usually using homemade tools. Efficient hydraulic cylinder work requires good tooling to do it efficiently. A simple repack needs a hydraulic power to disassemble & reassemble. I was in one shop where it was all built in the shop by one man. He had overhead crane to move the biggest ones, a hydraulic table where he secured the cylinder, & a set of shop made spanners to dismantle the many varieties of cylinders. A hydraulic pusher hung from a track & he used it to push on the spud wrench or spanner. He had a hydraulic puller to pull pistons when they were stubborn. He even had a rig 24' tall to pull pistons from telescopic dump truck cylinders. A man in a garage can reseal smaller cylinders, but it gets difficult when a stubborn one is encountered. Bigger shops seem few & far between. They prioritize their regular customers. You with one backhoe likely won't get attention until all the customers who bring cylinders regularly are served, maybe never.
I'm not a professional, more of a hack Had to rebuild scratched brake accumulators on a 644e loader, dealer only sells new ones and seals, no rebuilding. I used a 180 grit engine hone to remove all the scratches then realized this is an o-ring not a chrome piston ring. I wrapped the engine hone with scotch pad and had a diesel fuel wash every few minutes and kept going till no more anything came out in the rinse. been running 7 years now. Also had to make my own recharge tool
Don't panic yet, find out if he needs a hand for more learning experience! Sometimes the world happens but he should be willing to set a time expectation. That being said I dropped a small engine off for rebuild on a far back burner project, it was almost a year when I tried to call, no answer. Turns out guy died, kids must have scrapped everything and the building was made into a parking lot. I left an angrily worded postit note in the parking lot.
If you have his address it's time to stop by and see if anything has been done to your cylinders before this ends up with you have no cylinders to rebuild. My original thought was this $3200 is enough to seal every cylinder on your hoe, and maybe it's time you learn how to do them. They can be a physical challenge but it ain't rocket science, by now you would have had them done. Joe H
Did a Case 580 and the giant bolt one one piston was more than I could muster, local truck shop whipped it off for me in about 00.02 seconds
I got a hold of the guy last night... He told me he really had to wrestle the glands off the machine due to "more water than he or his father (who has been in the business for 40 years) had ever seen, coming out of the cylinder" that had ceased the gland on there pretty well. I know I have water in my hydraulic oil, and my change out a couple years back probably helped a little but the machine continued to sit outside for another year or two, so I guess it ingressed quite a bit more water. That's on me but I'll have to go into debt a bit to change the hydraulic oil out again, now that it's stored inside. He told me they are pretty much ready to come back to me but he won't help me put them back on until I flush out the bad oil, for warranty reasons. He is willing to give some advice on changing the oil but I assume it'll be similar to what we've already discussed here, in the past. I knew I was going to have to change the oil at some point, and me being forced to is probably a good motivator, but it's also a drag.
Seems high to me I normally get $150.00 to pack a cylinder plus packing packing runs $150-$250 unless you go after market Bulldog hyd. has quality kits for half of that another 4 hrs labor to remove and install plus milage and travel time. I get $70.00 a hour and $1.50 a mile witch is way cheap but I'm old and old school
I've ALWAYS got a story. As a teenager, I did some assembly work on new International tractors. Dealer was 1/2 mile from me. I fell in love with the low slung utility tractors of the era, desperately wanted one. A gentleman farmer died mid 1980s. Immediately, his showplace home & vast Victorian barn were sold, became a wedding venue. New owner bought 1985 the last of the IH tractors, a 385. It was a beauty, equipped with loader & bush hog. Despite vast area under roof, the tractor sat outdoors its entire life. The property passed through several owners, always a wedding venue & bed & breakfast. The tractor remained mostly unused, almost a prop. Several brides & grooms were photographed on it. 2015 it had a For Sale sign on it, I bought it. On the way home with it on the trailer, my son was on the phone. The voice on the other end said: "You realize that was in the pond a month ago?" I got home, removed a few plugs & found milky oil in hydraulics, & gearboxes. I called my bank & stopped payment on my check, then called the lady I bought it from. Said it was still on the trailer, I'll return it, or renegotiate price. I wasn't opposed to a project, but wasn't paying that much for a salvage tractor. She called me a liar, used a number of F bombs on me & hung up. An hour later she called back, I made a new offer, she accepted. We changed all fluids several times, never did resolve the wet brake issue. I had a skilled mechanic tear it all down & dry it out. Some seals needed replacement. It is now up to 1300 hours on the clock.
There's a lesson there, in buying a machine without a thorough check-over! Water in oil is insidious. Oil will cope with a certain amount of water, but it eats up the additives, combating it. When the oil struggles to hold the water in suspension, it will come out of suspension as free water, and that's when the real damage starts. Water-caused corrosion in hydraulics will cause rust holes in tanks and pipes, reduce hydraulic pump life as the oil loses its ability to lubricate - and it can't normally get out easily, because most hydraulic systems are fairly well sealed. Even though the oil cost of a system flush may be high, the long term benefit of a complete flush will pay off. Just make sure it's a thorough flush, and you get all the residual contaminated oil out of lines and valves.
I had my yanmar excavator main boom overhauled. I was going to change the rod seal and things went sideways, the gland would not unscrew, so welded a bar across the gland face carefully and using a front loader, finally got it to turn and it was a fight for every quarter turn. Prior artwork showed someone welded the guard bracket onto the cylinder and penetrated into the threads on the gland, galled the **** out of everything. Got a whole new gland from Yanmar and sent it to a cylinder machine shop. They were able to repair the threads and get the barrel back round, took some effort to get it right but happy with the work. I've done repacks but this was something else.
How tight do you guys do you guys tighten the nuts holding your hoses on? My guy said these were on way too tight and only need to be snug plus maybe 1/8th turn? Should I assume after I flush that I should replace all my o rings in the hoses?
Flare-style nuts need to be tightened carefully without excessive wrenching, as you can damage the flare - or more importantly, split the nut at the top of the flare. O-rings should be replaced when they appear flattened or hardened. If hoses with o-rings are removed, replace the o-rings, they're not expensive - but leaks are.
I paid 500$ for the full seal kit for my case 580k hoe. And did every cylinder myself. Gland nut Tools and seal bending pliers plus picks cost 100$ and now I have them forever. I watched a couple of YouTube videos and can have one done in 1-2 hours if there's no damage and the glands and rusted close. It's very very simple once you see it done if you have any mechanical ability. But I'd venture almost anyone can replace the seals if they watch a few vids. Just take pictures of the seal order and for the internal gland just pull one and replace with new one, and keep it up till you're done. Honestly all in all, once you do one on your machine, they're all the same on it usually.
It's really hard to say how much work was involved to remove the cylinders and repair them. It is pointless to say the price was too much after the fact and it appears it took even more work than initially thought. Flushing the system with the cylinders off should be a little easier than having them on. Warranty only after proper flush is reasonable.
I'd say for the standard 1/2 inch line 30-40 ft/lb torque, just a good tug not a reef, no pipe. As long as they don't loosen, you're good
is this your first day on the internet? armchair quarterback at the speed of light.
Prior to YT I did my ck580 stick cylinder atop the boom, parked, blocked with the outriggers, shut down, tug on the control to relieve pressure etc, figure I'll leave the barrel and just pull out the piston and rod. unpin and extend all the way, shut down and relieve the pressure. Standing on the boom (shakin hands with danger style) I spin the gland nut off and wiggle the rod, it moves slowly, I tip it up and block it so as not to loose all the oil, A few more wiggles and pow! seems the fluid was all aerated like a hot can of gingerale, I'm drowned in foamy hydraulic oil knowing the only part of the boom without oil on it is where I'm standing, don't move an inch! Had my friend get a longer ladder and take the rod and piston, then put my hand on the ladder so I could climb down and de-oil myself.
No, I'm saying the people saying the price is too high without seeing what is involved or even knowing how much traveling to the machine is involved are the armchair quarterbacks, especially after the OP has already agreed to the price. The price might be more than justified after learning the shop had a lot of problems due to rust.
I might chime back in here.... This thread really disturbes me, mainly as I have seen every senario that can exist regarding resealing cylinders on Case Equipment. If you refer to my original comment on page one - there is always a risk of encountering rusted glands on this model backhoe. The reason being CNH have paid a engineer to design a gland that does not seal against allowing outside moisture (rain/snow/dew) from entering the threaded section of the gland. The rust your repairer has found has not come from the water in the hydraulic oil, but from simply parking your machine in the weather, which is where 90% of backhoes mostly live. While it is not ideal to have water in your hydraulic oil - saying he won't warrant his work because of it is something strange to me - as this did not cause the rusted threads. If the cylinder is resealed correctly & continues to run in the contaminated oil - it will do so far beyond any time period that the best repairer will warrant his work. Yes, the water in the oil needs to be addressed as best you can, but any repairer knows that you will never make that oil look like pure oil in the system, unless every cylinder, hose, valve, is dismantled & flushed - something that will never happen. Your repairer has already quoted you an extraordinary amount of money to reseal 2 cylinders & now he is giving you reasons to add more dollars to this repair price. Unfortunately, this guy has got you by your short & curlys...... I'll give you a 40yrs of CNH experience tip here - without actually seeing the amount of rust present in these threads I can't say for sure, but, if the threads on the glands/cylinders are worn away due to the rust, when cleaned up, the gland threads will have too much clearance & the gland will be loose in the cylinder. If it's put back together like that - when you are doing some tough digging, the cylinder will literally spit the gland out & you'll be back to square one - requiring a whole complete cylinder. I have a collection of glands with rusted threads that have been replaced with new ones - that will likely look the same as the one I replaced in 10 yrs time - due to this pathetic design.....
Looks like some anti-seize on the threads would be a good idea too. Maybe the guy is just looking for excuses because he's not 100% confident in his repairs??
Interesting perspective and notes, guys, thank you! For what it's worth, there is no increase in price. I was wondering if he'd try that too and he's not inclined to do so. I do wonder if he'll really put them back on for me, after I do a flush (which is needed anyway and I didn't think about it being easier with the cylinders off, way to look at the bright side!), but it seems like something I can handle anyway if he doesn't help with that part.
The CNH design problem is not so much as a need to seal the threads - rather, simply put some grease or anti-seize on the threads, as Dave says. Every single equipment manufacturer is guilty of failing to protect a multitude of components against the ingress of water, dirt, mud, dust and chemical contaminants. Undercarriage fasteners are the one thing that most needs protection from all of the afore-mentioned - but I have never seen a single manufacturer use anti-seize on factory-installed undercarriage components. It's all about saving dollars, and improving the bottom line for the manufacturer.
A thread a long while back, had water contamination due to a defective vent cap, drained out the oil and put it in steel pails, heat it up over a big burner and let the moisture steam off until it looked clear. Pour it back in and cycle again, did that a few times while working on other projects. Got eyeball of disapproval from a few folks I fixed the vent cap and well its still going. 70 case 580ck and my cyls were painted shut at the joint before disassembly and greased like hell before reassembly.
Can you boil water out even if it appears to be very much in solution? I don't know if I would try that or not but it's an interesting idea.
Seemed like a good idea, kinda worked but there were some concerns, locally overheating the fluid causing oxidation damage, boilover could be a big firey issue and something about part of the oil being hygroscopic so no matter what it'd be almost impossible to dry completely.
Much better to just replace the fluid at this point.
Roger is cheap! He is proud of how cheap he is. He makes it a point to call attention to his cheapness. He owns the first Farmall M tractor sold here. It's in my memory it was the large by Danby standards farm's biggest tractor. It lived indoors when not being piloted, & is rust free. There is no paint or rust on the nose cone, worn off by 80 years of nosing through corn stalks cutting them down. These days I own a 1940 Farmall M & Seth has a 1941. Seth called Roger to ask his opinion what the best gear oil would be. "God, I don't know, I've never even checked it." One night late, Roger must've been worried, he called me; his 1948 Farmall Cub had a ruined gear. He'd got a used gear & replaced the damaged one. Now he faced the problem how to get the bits of metal out of the oil before he put it back in. I didn't have to think. It takes less than three quarts, put new oil in it. That you removed was 60 years old!
Boiling oil to remove water is a poor mans fix, as compared to replacing the oil with new oil. Oil contains numerous additives, many of them relatively unstable chemical compounds that are designed to combat, interact with, and capture contaminants in the oil - such as water. The additives are designed to hold the water in an emulsion and prevent the water from contacting bare steel components, and thus creating immediate corrosion. There are up to 7 major additives in oil - Anti-oxidants. Oxidation is the general attack of the weakest components of the base oil by oxygen in the air Rust and Corrosion Inhibitors Viscosity Index Improvers Anti-wear (AW) Agents Extreme Pressure (EP) Additives Detergents Dispersants Anti-foaming Agents Heating the oil assists in destroying the additives, as at any temperature above 125°C (257°F), the relatively (chemically) unstable additives start to break down, losing their full lubricating and protection abilities. The oils basic lubrication abilities are greatly aided by the additives. Additives can reach up to 30% of the volume of the oil, so we aren't talking small quantities here. So, in heating the oil, you may drive off a quantity of water, but you've also degraded the additives via heat breakdown, so the remaining oil now has a lower corrosion protection and lubrication ability. Of course, if you can add a moderate amount of new oil to the system at the same time as you heated the old oil, you're adding a certain level of new additives, which will assist in surface protection and improved lubrication.
Interesting stuff, thanks guys!
So, fire bad
Well if heat is bad, how about freezing and straining the ice out?
dry ice bath and filter it through a gym sock? Nige will bury our bodies deep.
I've ordered the popcorn...........
Cold oil doesn't filter very well. Heating oil to dry it doesn't have to be so you can keep using the oil. You dry the oil so you can recirculate it and dry it again until the whole system is dry then change it, as an alternative to step by step flushing with clean oil, or multiple oil changes. Boiling works, but it will foam up as it boils. Mildly heating the oil and bubbling air through it will dry oil more slowly, but is easier to do in place. Headspace dehumidification will dry oil way more slowly. Then there's centrifuges, and vacuum dehydration, that could be doable for the right person, or water absorbing filters that are expensive for the quantity of water removed.
Actually, one of the best way to filter contaminated oil - including water contamination - is using the old toilet roll bypass filter setups. I've got an old Frantz toilet roll bypass filter setup that is so old, it has the cast alloy filter housings. They're great at keeping oil clean, the toilet rolls just soak up water. I didn't realise until I just searched that Frantz is still in business. They kind of disappeared off the market down here many years ago.
This has turned into a mess! I can't say for sure but...... I could have drove from here (western PA) to Dayton, OH in my pick-up with a hand full of tools and took care of this job in a day. Sorry for all your troubles.
Been 3 weeks with no updates, are the cylinders back yet? Is it running or has this turned more to sheet than it was sounding when he wasn't calling you back? Joe H
63, it could have made you a decent chunk of money. Sorry for the lack of update. The cylinders are back, but the job wiped out my wallet. He said he'd help flush hydraulics to get water out and put new oil in before reinstalling the cylinders, but I haven't heard from him after attempting to contact him a few times. I'll try to reach him again later today, after the holiday weekend, but I'm not holding my breath and it's getting to the point where I really would like to have my machine back in working order. Next is finding the money to buy all that oil and the filters and junk...
I heard back yesterday. Says he's deep in some stuff and couldn't talk at the time, but at least returning my contact. My next conversation with him will be clearly spelling out my timeline or moving on. I understand I may be a very small fish but as a note for any of you that have customers; clear communication can work wonders. Even if it's just a "Hey, I haven't forgotten about you, but I'm working on these other jobs."
I am not in the business of resealing cylinders. As an electrician, I have some circumstances similar. I receive almost no requests after Christmas. In these 4 months I only get calls for generators. Homeowners start thinking about inconvenience of power outages after a tree falls on a power line & it takes the linemen 3 hours to restore power. Otherwise NO one wants electrical work done in winter. People are in hibernation until April. From April first until Christmas, it ramps up in volume & urgency. Since Covid began, a mass exodus from cities has overwhelmed nearly all tradesmen. In my case newcomers begin their work with solar installation. From here on electricity is free. They choose to install a bunch of new loads, most commonly, heat pumps. Heat pump space heating, water heating, clothes dryers lead. Plug in cars are growing in popularity. No older house has sufficient service equipment to power all this new load. There are several categories of work for us. Construction requires us to coordinate with other tradesmen Carpenters build the buildings we wire. We must wire when they are ready. Emergencies must be dealt with. Others choose an arbitrary deadline work MUST be completed by. While a job may be in the future, we don't know exactly when. Can't be in two places at once, especially true of a one or two man operation. There are times an elective project gets on a back burner. I can't afford to have my regular customers neglected while I take care of a small job that could wait.
After this long the shop needs to make YOUR job a priority.
Always remember the old adage, "the squeaky wheel gets oiled first". Keep calling, keep pestering, make yourself a real nuisance, and you may find your job has suddenly become a priority. Some people just take on too much work, and they need constant badgering to keep focused on the jobs they started, and then didn't finish. I've got a cylinder head guy like that, right now. The first cylinder head repairers simply ripped me off and weren't going to repair anything, just replace every single item - so I took the job off them and gave it to a smaller operator, recommended by my workshop neighbour. But this smaller cylinder head guy has a huge backload in his shop, and he's always running off and doing jobs elsewhere. He's had my head for over 3 weeks and still done nothing to it - so very soon, I'm going to become that "squeaky wheel".
Yeah, I feel pretty similarly. Not to mention my squeaky wheel wife who is starting to get aggravated.
Maybe its time to send her after the guy . . .
Sometimes that actually works. We bought a cordless drill at an auction that had the wrong battery. I called and asked if we could exchange it for the right battery and they said there must have been a mix up but sorry you can't exchange it. Really? My partner talked to them and in kind of a nice way but forceful explained the situation not really giving them an option to say no without looking like total shysters. They exchanged the battery. It didn't last long but did work for a while. We will never go to that auction again though because they sell absolute junk and don't tell anyone or let you try things out. They were selling returned items from Sears. They were selling some wet/dry vacuums and we were bidding on one. Top bidder only wanted 1 as did the 2nd bidder. Then they asked us and we said we'd take the one sitting on the side of the stage, instead of one in the back. They hummed and a hawed and seemed very reluctant. We said that's the same brand why can't we have that one? Then they said OK. Very suspect. We were lucky the only thing wrong was a little piece of plastic on the filter holder was broken. Simple enough to glue the piece back on and no other issues. This is where we figured out they were selling returned broken items. Wondering what was wrong with the other vacuums??? Really really shady outfit ripping people off. They had a Hummer they used for advertising. No morals at all just slim shady shysters.
Welp, this has gone, at this point, poorly. No word from my guy in a couple weeks, and I'm really hoping the cylinder rebuild really happened. I'm going to start buying supplies for the hydraulic flush and get started on that over the next few days/weeks and we'll see how it goes. I theoretically have his home address if the cylinders are no good...
I think it's at a point where you give the shop an ultimatum, they finish the job or you pick up the cylinder and they refund any money you've paid. It's beyond ridiculous how long it's been.
I'm usually the voice of tolerance. It is time to figure out what is happening. Go to him, large club in hand. In a non threatening way, tell him you have come for your cylinders. Assure him you will pay him what he is owed the minute you know they have been properly repaired. You can take it from here. We'll talk you through it.
It sounds like maybe the shop took on work they don't know how to do or can't do. It shouldn't have taken more that a couple weeks at the most.
The good news is I have the cylinders, but part of the deal was him coming to put them back on too. Once it was determined that he wouldn't warranty the repair unless I flushed the hydraulics (lots of water in the oil) that is where we sit now. I was going to trade him a scrap car I had for a better deal on helping flush, but I'll assume that offer is no longer any good (the benefit for me being his less expensive oil costs), especially since I scrapped the car last Friday. By hoping the cylinder rebuild really happened, from my post above, they've been returned and they look, externally, nicer than when they left. I've got to think that he did do a reseal. I'm chalking it up to a lesson poorly learned, and I'll do the work from here. I'm pretty confident with what I've got to do, just need the money and time to do it. The other sucky part is the guy seemed knowledgeable, and could teach me some hands on stuff. Even though his prices were high I could have seen sending him more (and more appropriate) work. Maybe it just wasn't worth it for him. Whatever.
Not too sure why you’re hung up on the fluid change. Milky fluid is not going to hurt the cylinders. I would just put them on and run the crap outta it.
Milky looking fluid is not a good thing for hydraulic oil especially the pump. One problem with it is that there is no way of knowing the dilution ratio it has in the oil.
I guess I'm just attempting to be safe rather than sorry. I'd like to have a good running machine that is running on the fluid it's supposed to, and now that it is stored inside I may as well get as good a fresh start as I can with it.
Water certainly can and will hurt everything eventually. But look at how long it took to get that much water, it's not an emergency to get dry fluid in there. There are cheaper/easier ways to dry the oil out than flushing it.
I thought nothing at all had been done. I would think if you drained as much fluid as possible by disconnecting hoses and then filling up with new fluid the dilution ratio would be very low. Maybe run the new fluid in the system through a filter cart. If you already paid for him to install the cylinders either ask for your money back or get him to install them. If the cylinders were done right there shouldn't be any issues with new fluid.
Thanks guys. The plan is to drain is as best I can. It probably won't be completely perfect but better than what I currently have. I really appreciate all y'alls opinions and comments. Is there a good place to buy an assortment of hose fitting o-rings? I typically buy my replacement hoses from a local Parker store, is that my best bet? I may be inclined to change the o-rings when I flush the hydraulic fluid. Waste of time and money? Any special type of o-ring I should be looking for?
High quality oils like Hy-Tran from Case have additives to hold small amounts of water in suspension. Others have none of these particular additives. Water will settle out & form ice in winter, rust in summer. I bought a IH 385 utility tractor that had been 4' deep in a pond. No evidence of water in the engine oil, but hydraulics were very contaminated. I changed oil repeatedly, & got it out of the hydraulics to the extent it functioned, but never cleared the brakes. I ended up taking it to a small farm machinery dealer/mechanic. They did a major tear down & cleaned it up, new seals & filters. Later, I complained it didn't steer well at low engine speed. Ended up replacing the hydraulic pump. Looking back down that adventure, I'd have passed on that purchase, but now I have a nice tractor.
You want to buy a kit for BOSS o-rings. Yes, I change the o-rings on every fitting I break, whether BOSS or flat face.
I have the same machine and they are all JIC’s on the hoses. I bought a JIC kit of Amazon. I have milky fluid and need to change some more seals but have just been running it as it seems to get better the more I run it. More than likely I will replace as much of the hydraulic fluid as possible when ALL the seals are done.
Would love to find a place that rents fluid carts as they are very expensive. I have looked and asked in my area but no bueno.
" I got some ocean front propertyyyyyyy in ARRR IIII ZZZona AAAAAAHHHHHH.............." I was too dumb this morning to figure out how to link the video. Sorry about your unfortunate luck with this endeavor
Check with hyd. shops in your area. That's where I rented one from.
I had a lot of water in my hydraulic system 2 years ago because of a leak in the top of my tank. After a complete drain, run for a few months, and then drain again, the milky color in my fluid is gone. I’m not saying all of the water is out, but when I first changed it, the fluid was white/orange…. So I think it’s a lot better.
I assume filters are being changed each time also, right? Thanks again guys!
Yes you want new filters. They are about $100cad. each so probably about half that in the US. They are big filters though about a foot long.
Yes that is correct. That at least helps get another gallon or two out of the system that isn’t stored in the tank.
Yeah, I bought new ones last time, but I was just making sure. If I recall properly, Dave, they were around 100US as well.
Just took my backhoe boom cylinder off my 580K to be rebuilt just started seeping 500bucks not to bad but it’s gonna take 3 week.Same shop I’ve used before,he’s just slammed right now.Putting in an in ground pool and really need it o well that’s the way it goes.
Picked up my manlift cylinders on Friday and installed yesterday. Main lift cylinder, (8" bore, 52" stroke) was $650.00 and basket slave level cylinder, 2.5" bore, 26" stroke) was $250.00. Both needed barrels honed, and new bronze gland bushing manufactured. Prior owner had main lift cylinder rebuilt in the past and bronze guide not replaced, hence not holding seal. Both operate very well without leaks now. Took several iterations of full stroking to purge air.
Ha, you guys are really rubbing it in! I'm aiming to work on my hoe next week, when I have the week off work. I have to get it done so I can get the barn floor done so I can put all the crap in the yard back in there! Come on!
Just got my 580K backhoe boom cylinder back 740.00 went up a bit,just like everything else I guess,at least it’s done,no other leaks YET.
Wait, your Lincoln buzzbox/6011 weldments held and the boom didn't come down on you?!?!?
Everything went according to plan as visualized.
Buttoned this part up yesterday. No leaks after over an hour of constant cycling and testing of the two cylinders addressed. Now have two others to pull out and send in for reseal/rebuild. One spreads the steering axles out, the other the main basket level cylinder. Neither of these are difficult, nor take much in disassembly for access. Both are floor level accessed when the boom is down. Once these are repaired, the machine will be "dry" as they say. Setting the main cylinder back into the machine with "Fred": Main lift cylinder supporting boom. Second photo shows support chains still attached but loose allowing a two hour "dwell" time to check for any boom creep down. None was found: Work area cleaned up to protect the guilty: Onward to the next part now.
With the hydraulics now proven it's time to move on to the next phase which is making some $$$ with it. The view is great from the top: No oil leakage which was profuse in the center of the machine any longer: With the hydraulics now proven, I'll order new tires to replace at least one that is original from 1980. All have dry rot so well aged, and the lift has always been outside till my ownership. All functions now work well and are very linear.
So I've got these orings... I think when we were removing the cylinders the dude that flaked on me said he'd have new ones upon reinstall. I think these were around the pins, but I don't remember where? Can you guys help? And is there a kit for this type of Oring? They are flat and not like the ones I'll replace in the hose fittings. I thought here but there are already orings in there, where this picture is pointing...
Looking around I think maybe the flat orings are from here? Insides and outsides?
They could be. When the bucket cylinders on my track loader were rebuilt I noticed there are seals in the ends of the rod eye to help keep grease in and dirt out. Your machine may just use flat o-rings. They look to be pretty dirty too which makes me think they weren't internal seals.
Maybe orings is the wrong term... Gaskets? Washers?
It's common on excavators and some track loaders to use o-rings/seals on each side of the pins to keep dirt out.
They are supposed to be steel backed wiper seals. It looks like the rubbers have seperated from the steel backs on some of them? Looks like the steel parts of the seals are still fitted to the bushings? As already mentioned, they help keep grease in & dirt out of the pin & bushing areas. ..... nice to have them fitted, but not totally essential for a property machine. When replaced, if not careful, the lips of the seals are often damaged when the pin is installed - negating the purpose of their installation.
Cat and some other manufacturers utilise steel-backed seals to provide articulated pin sealing on loader and bucket and ripper linkages to ensure dirt is kept out of greased areas of pins. However, it's possible the seals in your machine don't have steel backing, and are merely made out of some type of nylon or teflon or urethane, or other hard-wearing synthetic material. The idea behind the greased pin seals was to not only keep the greased area of the pin and bushing relatively free from dirt contamination, it was also an idea to reduce the greasing times. Originally, greasing pins and bushings was a daily chore with a recommended greasing interval of 10 hrs. But sealed pins and bushings was supposed to reduce greasing intervals to 250hrs. That was all O.K. while there was no wear in the pins, bushings and seals. But wear soon makes the 250 hour greasing interval too long. You can ensure grease stays in the pin and bushing for longer by fabricating large diameter washers in several thicknesses (out of steel or some type of wear-resisting thermoplastic) and slipping these washers into the gaps between the pin lugs. You slip into the joint, as many washers of the desirable varying thicknesses, until all the slop between the lugs is taken out. These washers then act as a close-fitting, labyrinth-style seal, that keeps dirt out of the joint, and the grease in. It's good to see your pins and bushings have been getting plenty of grease. Way too many operators seeing greasing as a chore to be avoided. 7K9202 Lip Seal, 7K9203 Lip Seal, Backhoe Loader 422E Lip Seal, Dust Wiper Seals High quality 7K9202 7K9203 Seal Lip Type For Caterpillar Backhoe Loader 422E 428E 432E 434E 442E 444E from China, China's leading 7K9202 Lip Seal product, with strict quality control 7K9203 Lip Seal factories, producing high quality Backhoe Loader 422E Lip Seal products. www.oilsealkits.com
The bucket pins and loader boom pins on my 931B say those pivots can go 50 hours but that's assuming the seals remain in good condition. I grease more often because I don't think the seals are in great condition.
Lift has been on a jobsite for almost a week doing tree work and all hydraulic functions cycled several times. Still dry as looked at it yesterday. Axles have not been pulled back in so the cylinder that spreads, and retracts these has not been cycled. Once the lift is back at the shop this cylinder will be sent in for rebuild as will the master basket level cylinder and then it will truly be "dry". I was wanting to get these cylinder leaks addressed before it went anyplace to maintain momentum, but the chance to recoup expenses presented itself so taking advantage of that opportunity. Sure is nice to not have oil dripping from it everywhere too.
Done and done. There'll still be some water in the hydraulic fluid, I didn't do a real flush just a good tank sucking, and put the cylinders back on. I did something dumb on Thursday, and injured myself, but was determined to get the machine operational and it is. I'm confident that I can now at least remove a cylinder to take it to a shop, should I ever need to and the hard ones are now done, so hopefully I won't need to do those again, at least for years and years. Took me and my buddy about 4 hours to get everything back together. Would have been 2 or 3 had I been in full health but I'm moving very slow. About effing time, now that can get back to using it!
It's very hard on the body to try and fix things when you're aching and in pain before you even start. You want to get things done and it can be hard to get help when you need it. Also who wants to work on messy and/or heavy hydraulics. I'm pretty stiff and sore today after a few hours taking a hyd. valve out yesterday. It will take at least a few days to recover. I'm glad I got it out so it can get fixed but not looking forward to putting it back in.
Sorry to keep cabbaging onto Aighead's thread but the lift is now selling itself. Two individual neighbors are going to rent it separately to clean up after recent storm damage. They are close enough it can be driven rather than hauled. Maybe I won't see it for a while yet?
As long as you can trust your neighbors aren't going to do something dumb or dangerous with it.
I agree with Dave, if you can pay off the repairs quickly with rentals, where your machine comes back as it was that's a huge win! I'd need to bury a lot of neighbors horses to make up my difference.
Thanks guys. I don't think this will be a problem. Both additional parties have experience with aerial platforms in their past. Mine just happens to be across and down the road a few hundred feet so no transport costs incurred. We had high winds last week that took down power poles and stripped a few buildings of their sheeting, along with tree damage. Kind of the right place at the right time for this lift I suppose. It has also garnered another job resealing cylinders in another lift. This one is a Condor brand and a 42' articulated type. It leaks profusely from two cylinders. I don't know the gent owning it other than a local landlord of several rental properties around here. He seen mine in the drive and inquired if I'd be willing to work with his. Noticing mine now gone, he asked if I was still interested so it should show up at the shop in the next couple of days. No idea what I'm getting into with this one as haven't seen it. This is not his but the same model: Used Construction, Agricultural Equip., Trucks, Trailers & more Used equipment for sale: Online auctions of heavy equipment for construction, farm, fleet, transportation, government and other industries. www.purplewave.com
Where did you find seals online