I think I could say my name is Napoleon and more people would believe me THAT is the crank hub on which I did my number to a 10mm-1mmx40mm (flywheel) bolt. The easy-out is broken flush, what remains of both the bolt and the easy-out are stuck real hard. Is this a candidate for an oversize bore with some sort of hole cutter and an insert?
If it was mine, I'd tig weld a handle on the easy out and remove it. Then I'd tig weld a handle or nut on the broken bolt and then back it out. Yes, I've had to sleeve and redrill/tap some holes, but its very unusual.
I have done that before and it worked. I remove a lot of broken bolts from propane tanks. I was called to work on one the other day they had broken a easy out off in it i used a Dremel with a Diamond bit . The bolt was a 1/4 and it ground through the easy out and i ground almost through the bolt making it easy to remove.
I've never thought of the dremel and diamond bit. I'll try that one sometime. Thanks Doug. To the original post, I would be welding a oversize washer, then weld a nut to the washer, I don't tig, so I would be MIG welding it. I rarely try the easy outs, and almost exclusively weld washer and nut to stuck/broken off bolts.
I dont know why but i have had better luck drilling a hole in a piece of cold rolled steel and using it as the washer? I have done this several times before were i used a washer and the weld didnt hold but for some reason welding on a piece of steel would. I used 1/4 steel is it the thickness or something to do with the carbon in the steel?
I find the cat hardened washers work quite well and the small unichrome welding rods. I very seldom use easy outs. Just weld to the bolt even if it’s broken off recessed in a ways.
I don't even have a welder anymore and I never done TIG, but I could get one and learn it. What scares me is the possibility of welding the bolt-remains to the hub because if that's the end result then I'm neck deep into something even more brown than the current predicament. Do these diamond(-surfaced) bits last enought to bore 1/4" deep or should I buy a box of them? I'm tempted to try the diamond bit method with a flat ended solid cylinder boring bit (IF I can find the right one!) to bore deep enough to grind down the easy-out enough to loosen it. The easy-out had gone into a 5mm hole that I had drilled all the way through (about a good inch). I would try to get back to that point as a 1st attempt. The problem with tryingto weld the easy-out is that it has very little cros-section left to weld to. Even if I get on top of TIG welding that may not be enough shear strength to break it loose.
I've had pretty good success with die grinding a centering hole and drilling out using carbide masonry bits. So far it's worked on easy-outs, thread chasers and zerks. The bits are only good for one use before eventually one of the carbide flats breaks off, but cheap enough to have a bunch of spares.
This bolt is a hardened 10mm job but it drilled fairly well with a titanium dipped bit, initially I drilled a 5mm hole into it so it offers a little more room than a 1/4" one. I could try the TIG method OR a diamond bit in a dremel or an air gun. Once I get the easy-out out it becomes another task.
I would use the diamond coated bit in a dremel. It takes a while but there’s less chance of creating a bigger problem. I’ve used that method for broken tap removal
I'd use a fine cutting torch and heat that center hole up till it sparks and hold it there just long enough to spark all the way through, don't hit the oxygen just let the flame oxidize the easy out and part of the bolt. then let it cool and see if it turns out. Or weld a nut on to it after heating.
I wouldn't dare try the torch bit, this is an already installed and torqued up bottom end in an engine. This morning I started working it with 5mm carbide (masonary) bits in an impact drill and got down to a depth of about 7/16-1/2" before both bits I had on hand gave up their edge. I'm getting some new bits and might try diamond coated bits on the next opportunity to get some. Like 56wrench says I definietly don't want a bigger problem than what I already have. One problem is that living out in the sticks here, I can't just go out and buy ANYTHING the same day :-(
Having encountered this many, many times, I can't recommend enough the ESAB All State Stud plus welding rods on a stick welder. Done 5.3s chevy, 460s in Econolines, 3116, 3176, c15, and on and on. As long as your first contact touches the bolt (or easy out) you're golden. In recessed holes the stage coats the bore threads. Dab, wait until slag pops off, repeat, repeat, until out enough to 7018 a nut on there.
I used 1 diamond bit it cost around $9.00 and it ground through the easyout no problem.
That's where the problem is, don't impact. Just need to run them slow in a drill and spray lube.
A welding tip can work really well for that also.
Yes, a welding tip would work, just adjust it to oxidizing so the metal starts sparking and heating on it's own, then you don't have an oxygen lever to hit either. Try it on scrap first. Wrap the rest of the work with wet washcloths and AL, not sure I'd do it on a crank in an engine or not, have to see how much room there was. Masonry bits wear away the bolt slowly, I don't know if they'll drill and easy out or not. Definitely not with impact. You can sharpen them on a grinder, just very lightly touch the tip to the wheel a bit at a time and pull back for a split second with each light touch. For drilling steel, sharpen it much sharper than it was for masonry, but not as sharp as a HSS drill bit.
@Delmer method works. Heating the easy out and letting it cool takes the temper out of the steel, allowing it to be easily cut by whatever method you want (drill, die grinder, dremel, etc). As for concerns about heat, get a mineral wool blanket (or multiple) from a plumbing supply house, hardware store, Home Depot, etc. Plumbers use them for soldering in interior spaces to keep adjacent materials from catching fire and they work extremely well. If I can solder inside a 3 ½" deep wall cavity and not catch the adjacent wall on fire, nor scorch it, you won't heat any metal beyond engine operating temp. When I did it, after heating, the easy out popped right loose and I didn't have to drill it. Then I took a die grinder and thinned down the broken bolt to almost nothing without damaging parent threads. Worked well, though tedious. Order some carbide die grinder bits of Amazon, even if it means waiting a couple days. They work well and even the Chinese ones will hold up surprisingly well over a long period of time. I bought a cheap set 2 years ago, use them monthly, still haven't ruined one yet.
Thanks for ALL the nice wisdom, too many to thank individually right now. I'll try a how-goes-it up to this point: I found an old dremel grinder bit about 5mm with a square end and that allowed me to recenter the bore as it was up to that point. Two carbide bits I had bought locally were broken by now and THAT store has no more so I went out and bought a dozen more carbide masonry drill bits at an otherwise reliable source known here as Canadian-Tire but they ALL ended up as total duds. They just don't start the bite, impact no impact, lube no lube. I've ordered diamond tip bore bits from Amazon and will now just have to wait it out. I have a re-centered hole at to this point, I think I haven't touched the threads yet, and I don't wanna push my luck. It's a poor picture but the center depression is about 2mm diameter, that's all the new bits gave. The diamond coated bits should be here just before Christmas.
Nice work.. I’ve broken a few.. the boss showed me how to shatter them and get out the bits..
After spending 5 years working auto machine years ago and removing countless broken studs and bolts in cranks, heads & blocks-The first order get it dead centered when starting to drill. Second drill all the way through to relieve bolt, don't stop midway when heating it will make it's way the entire length let it set and completely cool. In most cases it will lose it's grip and turn out.
Lol.. ahhh memories.!! I remember being a nube and drilling half way thru..& wondered why it wouldn’t come out..even after torching..?? It doesn’t take to many of those before u learn..
Would it kill you say how? It's too late in this case but I'm dying to know Got an update from Amazon to expect my diamond bits by mid-week, what speed/pressure do I turn diamond coated boring bits? I've never used any before. I have about an inch to bore but I expect the easy-out remnant to become loose as I grind down to its narrower section along the way. At that point I should be able to suck it out with a magnet.
A sharp strike with a punch in the center will often do a number on a extractor. Or just heat it a bit. EZ outs are really brittle and they just go to pot when they get heated. I really don't like using extractors much, I prefer using Torx bits; they bit better, work both directions, and aren't as brittle. Some brands work better than others; I have a Blue Point set that are real strong, but are soft enough that they start to twist before the break, Snap On Torx bits seemed to be stronger, but would shear before they twisted.
I think I'm done with the spiral type of easy outs, they're useless for big game . I've also ordered some torx-like easy-outs but haven't received them yet, I figure they don't force the piece to the wall as much as the spiral type. The +/- 1/4" diamond bore bits are hollow, I took this picture to show how badly (and fast) they wear down. I had ordered 3 boxes of 10, used up 14 of them first to bore out the easy-out remnant (below) and then to dress the hole walls ready for tapping. What remained of the easy out after boring it just came out inside the hollow bit. Once the easy-out was removed (HUGE sigh of relief), there were two separate ledges left to dress down, this time with the side of the diamond bits. The one way at the bottom was the one left by the bored out residual easy-out of about 5/8". For dressing them down I tried diamond bits again but this time in the air gun but that was way too powerful and unstable so I put the diamond bits back into the battery hand drill used before. The final product, some of the threads near the top are clipped a touch but there being more than twice the required thread depth plus the replacement screw being about 3/16" longer I feel very good about it.
This was my first time with diamond bits and I was surprised how smoothly they chew their way, not fast but I've seen slower carbide drill bits (have boxes of them on hand before starting). I used a light touch and low speeds, maybe 1000-2000 rpm, at first it looked like each operation was going to take an eternity but no, with a little patience it all gets done.
I detest screw extractors, because you're usually already working with a corroded and broken fastener, and the screw extractor usually ends up breaking, too! But if I do have a broken fastener that is showing signs it might come out, I find the Ridgid screw extractors work the best, because they don't keep expanding the broken stud/bolt. But the drilled hole must be to the specified diameter. Screw Extractors | RIDGID Tools Screw Extractors www.ridgid.com
You guys can only give away 75% of the secrets. Save that last 25% for some major money. lol
Glad to hear you got your problem solved @towbar
I have this set and they work well. Wasn't priced near when purchased either: Walton 1/8-1" Tap Extractor Set Walton 1/8-1" Tap Extractor Set. Usually ships in 1 day. Buy it and Save at GlobalIndustrial.com www.globalindustrial.com
That's the kind I have in the pipeline (looks like the SAME set) should be getting two ordered sets soon. When the bolt is big, say 1", you have room for welding but not so with 1/4-1/2" diameters. These are more in line with my budget RIDGID 35580 Screw Extractor Set RIDGID 35580 Screw Extractor Set. Great savings and get fast delivery when you order online at ITM.com. www.itm.com This type also offer the advantage of cycling back and forth not available with spiral extractors.
This thread reminds me of a discussion in Shop Talk about Artu drill bits. I have a set and they drill some really hard material. YouTube has a couple of videos about them.