I have a Samsung SL150 With a ZF Transmission. Forward doesn't always work, but seems to engage in to reverse always. I haven't had the loader very long but I did alot of forward and reverse unloading bales and loading the belly dump this last fall and it worked great! Now all of a sudden no forward all the time. I know this isn't the most common loader as for as name brand, but the transmission is. So if anybody can help it would be greatly appreciated. When I do have forward it shifts good and has good power and works great. It just won't engage all the time and seems to be getting worse, I don't know much about it. I looks to me as though it might have had problems before, there looks to be a new wiring harness coming out of the shuttle shift lever. It runs down to the floor board and makes a connection, that I have checked and seems to be fine. From there I don't really know where to start. I live in Western ND and its not the warmest this time of year, but I sure would like to have my loader up and running in time for the next Blizzard! I'm new here any help would be great!!
Don't know much about your unit but it sounds like it has the electronic shifter that is in most unit with a ZF slush box. The Terex trucks I worked on years ago used them and to trouble shoot them took a breakout box. I used to unhook the harness connectors and blow them out with ether or brake clean before I did anything else. Basically the harness to the shift consul was taken loose and plugged into the box. The output side of the box then plugged into the shift consul. There were pin holes in the box where you could test each circuit. That part was pretty straight forward until you were in autoshift mode. You had to watch on each shift for the pin hole you were stuck in. You should hear from someone here but if not you might try to find a dealer somewhere who might be able to give you some more ideas of where you can look next. Good Luck!
Thanks for the reply. Yes it is electronic, and the harness goes to a box that is about the size of a car stereo that is mounted under the dash board. The wire harness that goes into this box is fairly large (about an inch or so in diameter with the plastic conduit) Not sure yet how many wires go into it. Would this be the slush box you tell me about? The unit does not have Auto-shift see hopefully that might simplify things alittle bit. It has 4-forward and 3 reverse on a twist shift right on the shuttle shift lever. Also when I can get forward out of the machine it "never slips out of gear", and everything operates normally. Thanks
Your comment that the transmission works in forward when it does go into gear indicates to me that the problem is in the electronic side. Do you notice any difference with the shifter. Maybe wiggle it around some to get it to go into gear. Does outside temperature seems to make a difference? I am assuming the shifter is on the steering column. Is it a tilt steering column? Could there be wiring issues in the column? I had a Cat one time that the harness had a hole rubbed through and wire shorted at times. It pretty much drove me crazy till I found it.
I kinda agree with John C. If you don't have the proper test devices, I'd be looking real hard at the shift controller and harness. If it's the type of controller I think it is, they eventually have problems from being cycled so much fwd and rev, which is what a loader does. I've even take them apart and found them full of water on open cab machines. If it's a fairly simple controller and has problem working in one direction only, I have located my fwd and rev wires coming from cotroller and switched them, now you pull back to engage fwd and lever fwd to engage rev. Now if you have problems getting rev to engage, chances are you've got a bad controller.
Thanks for all the good info,makes sense. Yes, I have noticed that the cold weather seems to have an effect on it not wanting to shift. At least I think, it did work fine until it got cold. The loader sits inside, but not in a heated shop. So other than the Engine Block heater it has no help. I thought about maybe putting another heat patch or magnetic heater on to warm the transmission up, but didn't really know where to put it? Maybe by the tranny dipstick I guess? Yes, the shifter is on the steering column, no tilt wheel though. Funny thing is that the wiring harness that comes out of the shift column is new, but the shift lever looks to be well used. I guess thats probably my best starting point maybe they didnt get something tight if they did change out the harness, or they changed out the harness and it was in the controller! I can relate to kind of drives ya crazy! Funny how it always works in front of the shop, but than I find myself backing up to get back to the shop again! HA HA Well the weather is supposed to take a turn for the worse tommorrow, but as soon as I can brave working on it that's where I'll start. When it don't shift I don't really notice a difference in the shift lever, but I can tell it didn't engage. Thanks for all the great advice, I really appreciate it alot!! I'm new to this site, but I'm really enjoying all the good posts. Thanks again
can someone help me please,,i am working on a case 621b and the transmission will not do anything?
Well, I'm thinking the cold weather is affecting my shift lever. I pulled the shift lever out the other day and brought it into the house to warm up a bit. Out in the cold before I warmed the control I noticed that when I would engaged the shift lever to forward, without the machine running. I would push it forward and than hear a click a couple seconds later. After bringing it in and warming it up, the shifter feels and seems to engage alot nicer. Maybe hard to explain, but it feels awhole lot different warmed up. I felt the need to open the control up and look inside and found a small circuit board that looked like new, no moisture or dirt inside. I was surprised how nice and clean everything looked. Given the fact that everything worked before it got cold I thought that I would take it out when I need the machine next and try it after I had it in the house warming up. Simple to take in and out, 2 allen screws and an electrical plug. I'm gonna be surprised if it don't work, but it won't be the first time I guess! No measurable amount of snow that needs to be moved right now, but its been way to cold! Wish me luck and if it don't work I'm sure I'll have some more questions. Thanks again!!
So whats the deal with this 621b. No movement in forward or reverse? It might help to read the post on here about the 621 that was having the shifting problems. I don't know much about these trannys, but with alittle more details about what is going on maybe we can both learn more about them! What have you done or tried so far?
On the upper side of the trany there should be a cover with a snap over wire strap that holds it down. Under this cover there is a set of coils. about six I think. Check this for resistance check all against each other. I am not sure the reading now but if you check them against the rest you will find the bad coil. They work in sequence so one bad one will couse it not to shift. I had a world of trouble with a case 821. I may even have a coil....not sure about that.
621 We just finished a real problem 621 with no shift. Have you checked the wires for the fnr shifter on the bucket controller? We found a broken wire for the 24v feed to this toggle and consequently we had no neutral input from the fnr on the joystick to the trans controller. Short story is the controller needs neutral inputs from both shifters before it will let either work.
Skytraker Now isn't that something, the manufacturer added more crap to make life easier for the wussy operator and all it really did was add cost and trouble to the machine. Maybe it's getting time to go back to real operators that started out in the bottom of the ditch and know what real work feels like. I think I'm getting a little fed up with the video gamers that can only crank on a joy stick. Maybe others here could comment on another thread.
John C I can't argue with that, but it is what it is and we now need to fix the junk that's out there. We deal with a lot of ZF and I find it to be very cheaply built, but it does the job for a time. Nothing like the old stuff but 10000 to 12000 hours is common.
A suggestion... If you can reach the "box" or the "circuit board" with the blast from a heat gun; while installed, you might try it cold, no go... Run some heat on it, try, still no go. Run a second heat. If it goes, you have a "cold" solder joint on board or in the plug in ends. I am not a dirt man, but many, many years on forklift trucks (2000 to 30,000 cap) so there are a lot of similarities. I used to have a desktop computer in the shop. Winter, cut the heat down in shop area to just above freezing. Office got real cold. Computer would not work at opening time, come right on about 9:30 - 10:00. Started leaving an Arvin foot heater of the secretaries on and problem solved. LOL LOL... The radio in my ISUZU Hombre PU will not work in summer. Now that its winter, works fine. Cold joint and will have to pull or hit a rougher RR track. Some times a bounce will bring it on. Possible cold/loose ground. Most of the weird problems that drive us crazy are usually simplicity itself when the find the solution. LUCK
On the 621b problem, there is a computer box behind the plastic panel on the left side of the cab. If you have decent hearing you can hear the computer click 2 times when you turn the key on. If a third click is heard that is the computer shutting off because it sense's a short somewhere, for us it has always been one of the coils under the housing on the trans valve body. Have never dealt with a samsung but I'm sure there are very similar parts.
What model is the transmission, I have some manuals on ZF but need to know the model. Bell Equip used ZF in trucks and some loaders.
I have a 1992 case 621 loader with the zf transmission. Was moving snow the other day with it for about 2 hours got out for a minute and when i got back in i didnt have 1 or 2 gear just 3 and 4. went back a couple hours later everything worked perfect. Ran it the next day for 5 hours ran perfect. A couple days later ran it for 2 hours got out for a minute got back in no 1 or 2 just 3 and 4 gears and been like that every since. Would appreciate if any one had any ideas.
on the Samsung g/box I would check the wire conections to the coils under the tin lid,most often on shovels there is 5 coils (3 speed F-R ) I usualy remove the coil harness and plug from the selector valve block and check things out in good light, give all the push on (to coil) connectors a bit of a tighten with pliers then re fit it if it all looks good, if the gear controller (Brain) gets an incomplete signal it will not select, it goes into default, this means you cannot test for power at plug points,the best way to test for power feed is at the coils, or from the hand gea select lever to the controller (brain) as any interuption from the controller unit will make it go into default (non select). tctractors
Samsung G/Box is ZF WG200, with slightly differing spec's these are fitted into a stack of earth moving kit from dumptrucks to loading shovels, Timmy S I would check the coil conections (wiring) at the side of the G/Box inside the tin lid. tctractors
i have got a wheel loader liugong CLG856 it has come with ZF 4wg200 transmission,if any one has service or parts manual of it please upload it or can send it to [email protected] , would be very usefull coz it has problem. thank you
First time here MAYBE ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS Answers to SOME of the questions here 1st case problem: Just had one come thru the shop no 1st or 2nd just 3rd and 4th sound stupid that they let you have the high gears but not the low ones but your problem is that wire #i think it was 25 and letter has no power the power goes thru the parking brake switch and thru the declutch switch and the declutch pedal and thru the 2 brake preasure switches then to the computer behind the seat. We found the problem to be low brake preasure not letting current thru the preasure switches.blown oring on the spool in the brake accumalator valve and 1 accumalator that was not holding preasure. 2nd samsung problem: We had a jcb come thru with sometime no direction control in forward and found it to be a micro switch in the controler. On some units that have a rubber boot you can pull it back and listen for a click when tou shift it back and forth maybe spray a little contact cleaner in there to get to working or pull controler off and drill out 2 rivets and you can get to the switches to replace or just give them a good cleaning and then force a little dielectric grease past the plunger into the guts of the switch and use screws or rivets to put back together. The shifter only comes as a complete assembly and is pretty pricey. Hope this helps some one as im getting cramps from all this typing. Havent done this much since highschool alooong time ago. Yall take care.
zf transmission in a komatsu wheel loader Gents im having issues with a low oil pressure fault on a komatsu wheel loader. im going to change the pressure switch on top of the control valve and then recheck pressures. My question is can mains transmission pressure be adjusted ie. relief valve. i have read and re-read our service manual but cant find whether it can be. Also ive heard these traniies are good when they are working but a mongrel to repair.
Hatchequip. I had exactly the same issues. 621B no 1st or 2nd. After much poking around phoned Case dealer who said check brake accumulator pressure. Sure enough one circuit was low. Accumulator control valve is behind a plastic plug just at back of the right rear wheel. Tried adjusting but made no difference . Replaced valve and instantly fixed the problem. Apparently this is their idea of a brake failure sfety control. No 1st or second renders the machine almost useless but still moveable. This machine also had erratic selection of fwd /rev. Swapped out controller with a sister machine and away it went. I didn't try to fix it though just got a new one. Just on that accumulator control valve, don't try and adjust it without gauges and numbers.
I'm working on am SL150 that won't shift into either forward or reverse. We've tried a new shifter, and read out the resistance on the solenoids. When it works, it's fine, but will just stop completely with no warning. Totally dead now. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
I run a 624h john deere,and when it wont shift I smack the steering colum and it works fine!
Yeah, we've tried beating I'm the steering column, and a few other things.:Banghead
No edit function, I guess. That's supposed to be on, not I'm.
Is there a switch on the park brake?
Yes, there is. It appears to be working. The (P) lights up on the dash, and the relay behind the seat closes when you engage the brake. The way the machine just stops responding acts like it would if you engaged the parking brake, oryou had the declutch switch for the left brake peddle engaged. Dealer is at least 3 weeks out on service. This machine has been very reliable, and still has a lot of life left in it. Too bad the support is no longer available.
Air brakes or power brakes? - check switches Charge pressure req to release power brakes? - check sender & actual pressure.
Air brakes. Machine would always move even if air pressure wasn't up. Technical info is almost non existent. We do have a wiring diagram, but it is very poor.
Does it have a declutch option switch on dash for LH brake pedal? Is power getting to FNR lever? Does backup alarm sound when reverse is selected? Look for all grounding wire points - under dash & around trans & give them a good clean.
Yes, it has the declutch switch, which does work, when it moves. The blue light goes on and off when the switch is moved. The relays behind the seat close when the FNR is moved. I can feel different relays closing depending on which direction I select. Backup alarm sounds in reverse. Sometimes strongly, sometimes weakly, or not at all. It's done that for years, however. I will check for good grounds. This problem started this spring after the machine sat all winter. At first, it was sporadic, but now it's stopped all together. Is there a main power feed to the trans solenoids? When it will shift, I can hear the solenoids working (engine off) but now I only hear the relays. Thanks for all the help.
Hello, we have a Terex TA30 articulated truck, on the display appears the error code EE, according to the manual it means that there is no communication from the TCU to the display, and the transmission stays in neutral, it does not move forward and backward. According to the manual we have to check the wiring between the TCU and the display, we have checked it several times and it is OK, we bought a new TCU and the problem continues, I do not know what else to do. Do you have any suggestion? Thanks
Alberto: What model transmission do you have?
Oldseabee a ZF 6WG 310
Have you checked all the shift solenoids and the lockup valve solenoid? Also check the lockup valve and input speed sensor.
Hi- I have a Case 821B with 8000 hours that keeps blowing the transmission coils/soleniods. We have replaced the FNR shifter, replaced transmission filter, replaced all the soleniods at least twice (at $500 each) replaced a wiring harness, rebuilt a wiring harness that had high resistance, tested the TCU (which had been replaced previously). All of this work and probably more was done by our area Case dealer's technicians. This last time, our $3000 in repairs got us 5 hours of operating time. Then it wouldn't move. After letting it sit overnight, we were able to get it to go in 3rd & 4th. This has been going on for years, according to the previous owner. I feel like we are treating the symptoms, not the causes of the issue. There must be something that the techs are not considering. Anyone have any ideas? Thank you
need to physically track down your ground for the coils, I went through same thing with a 621b. Once I grounded the solenoid harness to the transmission had no more problems. Ask your techs what is inside the coil and what would cause it to fail, start tracking down your problem one coil at a time. If there not grounded properly there is no way to control voltage. The computer is very delicate, any wiring trouble the computer will shut itself off.
re: I think you may be right about the ground. When he was hooking the battery up yesterday, Dad said that he could feel an electrical tingle when he leaned against the frame. If it is trying to ground through him, then the regular ground must not be 100%. I will definately have the tech check that out. Thanks!
The break on the first axle is holding all the time and will that come back to accumilater number 1 and where is it?
Ive slept, but sitting in seat right side under cab maybe back a little, I think inside frame, valves and accumulator wiring and brake lines hook to them, be sure that pedal isn't staying part of the way depressed because dirt under the back of it holding it from coming all the way back up, hope this helps
im looking to buy a Samsung loader sl150-2 with a zf transmission when I first start it, I have to wait 5-10 min for it to warm up before it will move, the engine starts and runs fine but is wont move. is this normal. it is a good looking machine with no known problems. the transmission just worries me did you fix your machine or do you have any suggestions
Just been reading this thread and others. I have a Case 621B XT with no forward or reverse. FNR checks all ok Bypassed the transmission relay to ensure power onto pin 22 on ECU Checked grounds at fuse panel and also ensured ECU chassis is grounded Power up the loader and I get one click, pause, then 3 clicks (1----111) - so I believe I have a short Checked pins 14, 15,31,32, 33 in different fnr positions as per the manual and I get no power. Checked resistance to all solenoids and I get exactly 87.3 ohms for EVERY solenoid (weird - expected some variance) I removed the ECU connection and tested solenoids via harness connection and get same readings, BUT I also noted the ground pin 34 is measuring impedance to ground. Looking at the schematic, these solenoids have a direct wire to ECU pin 34 ground, and if this is disconnected - there should be no impedance (open) My question to the gurus - Is this a short the computer senses and hence shuts off??? I am thinking to open up the solenoid cover and check each wire, but damn awkward area to work (any info would be of great assistance) (BTW -I am assuming my ECU is good, but note this is a restoration project - unit has not been driven for 5 years - apparently all worked before parked down) cheers O
Brake Accumulators Spanner can you please indicate where to locate the brake accumulators? I have an 821 I am working on and only found the one main accumulator under the driver seat area. Also did the machine totally lock up when in first and second? thanks
I have a is a kawaski 65Z wheel loader,the hydrauic line under the seat sprung a leak had to take seat off and fix got it fixed hooked back in,its the line on the pump on transmittion. Everything worked great before now it wont go forward or reverse everything else works any help would be great
hi all, ive got a samsung 120-2 that will not engage either F or R in any gear it will only flash D5 which im assuming is a code. the loader just had a reman engine put in by another shop and customer test drove it, loaded it on the trailer and backed it off at their shop, shortly after they tried to run it and nothing. ive gone through the shifter and its all showing power, the trans is reading at 233 psi, the speed sensor is fine, and all fuses behind the seat are good. ive searched the web and theres not much for these, any help would be appreciated
I would suggest checking parking brake relays and anything to do with service brakes. Most wheel loaders now have interlocks that prevent transmission operation when there is anything perceived wrong in brakes and steering.
could you tell me the location of the relays? ive pulled all the panels off the outside and a few inside around the steering column, today i will pull the seat and the panel behind it. TIA
I've only looked at these loaders for condition inspections. In many of the loaders I have worked on the relays were behind the seat or in one of the consoles. Usually you can find them by operating a function and listening for the click when they shift. Most machines will have them in a couple of places. Do you have a service manual on the machine?
May be of help
the relays have been found, but im havung trouble locating the declutch relay for testing and the park brake relay. also is this the tcu? it was mounted under the seat and has the wire harness from the gear selector running to it, i would assume that it is but its a bosch unit and the gear selector has zf printed in a few locations.
Bosch bought 50% of ZF their name is now on the TCU's attached is a Lull but the 35pin outputs should be right on the est. TCU
Will engine start but won't go into gear? Is there any warning lights on? Is brake pressure okay?
So in the end, is there a generalized consensus on whether ZF transmissions are overall good, or are they categorized as problematic? I'm faced with a decision on basically parting out an otherwise serviceable wheel loader (JD 544) over a bad ZF. Or so I've been informed. I have not tested it in any way to confirm that it is bad. I'll amend this post with a query. I have been told that JD only used ZF transmissions in the 544 series loaders for a couple of years, then reverted to Allison built transmissions. Can anyone confirm that, which if true leads me to question why. Was it a question of design shortcomings, inability to supply the required quantity by ZF, or some other reason?
I don't know much about them but did have some experience with the old Terex artics back in the nineties. As I recall they were TA somethings but could very well be wrong about that. I seem to recall them being 22 or 25 tons. The trucks had Deutz engines and ZF transmissions that had a bad habit of breaking. It was a messy job in that the whole top of the front section had to come off to get to the tranny and ZF would not allow anyone to rebuild them. At any rate we heard later on that Terex went cheap on the box and put one size too small of unit in those trucks. The 30 ton trucks came out a bit later with the Cummins M11 engines and bigger ZF boxes and they worked all right for an Artic. Wheel loaders get slammed hard for a lot of years by people that really shouldn't be on a machine. I've inspected Deeres with over twenty thousand hours on the clock and the owners swear the grinders are original.
Which letter designation 544 are we talking about? 544E and newer were all ZF transmissions and all replacements are ZF. Allison was the transmission used in the 544D and older.
I have seen a lot of the ZF transmissions in many makes. They have proven to me to be very tough to beat with proper maintenance and operation. If they have the proper TCU, they can be recalibrated through their life to last many years. The majority of the issues I have run across have been purely electrical in nature.
mg, I have two loaders at play at this point. I do not know the year of mfg right offhand, but one is a E and the other a G. The E has a grapple that the owner wants to move to the G (standard bucket), since it has no apparent mechanical problems. Overall, it doesn't seem to be in great shape. Very weathered, rust at the door bottoms and sills, broken glass, blank instrument cluster. I think it's going to take a lot of work to call it a good machine. I started it today. Cranked about one revolution and was running. I was actually going to just bump it to see if the battery was up, and to my surprise, it fired right off. Wasn't cold today, just in the 40's, but I was still surprised. The G hasn't got a battery on it so I could not just start it to see how it acted. I know it was trailered in. I'm under the impression it was parked for transmission issues. I probably need to verify that before making my recommendation. Overall, it looks like a better cared for machine. The ZF transmission is a 4WG-150 for reference. I can imagine the headache of moving the grapple, with controls and all from one machine to the other, plus finding out what else the machine will need. I have not checked to see if multiple pumps are on the grapple machine to run it. The G just has the ordinary 2 function stick, which is awfully stiff and will not return to center on its own. Feels very dry, but I have a bad feeling about it. But to make this swap work it would probably go to the other machine anyway. Oh, and under consideration it parting out the E after taking the grapple off. Vetech63, I haven't worked on that many, but so far, every one has been electrical as a root cause. ZF is as good as any afaik. Well, except for some of their recent sports car products. 9 and 10 speed automatics...has to be tough to pull off. Here's a couple of shots of the machines. Just overview.
I personally would have the transmission checked out before you make any decisions. In the past getting electrical schematics for the ZF was a chore in itself but a lot has changed over the years with the information available. Make sure whoever checks it out is knowledgeable with these transmissions systems on hydraulic and electrical. It could possibly be a reasonable repair with minimal cost. If it proves to be a major internal issue, I have a great contact with a factory authorized rebuild center. The last time I sent a transmission like this to them, the standard rebuild (less hard parts such as drums, shafts, etc...) was around $5K. That was a teardown, bearing, seal rebuild, and with me shipping the transmission to them. Of course...…..that was around 10 years ago!
VeTech, this is actually a revisit project. I brought it up on another thread here (a no-no generally on fora) and I did get a couple of quotes from supposedly reputable rebuilders. One says they even cut and reweld torque converters in house, so that tells me they probably are a fair sized company and have made enough money over the years to invest in that level of service. A total rebuild, excluding extraordinary hard parts, and a rebuilt converter were priced at $14-18k, depending mostly on hard parts. That's still with me shipping, one way I believe. I pulled off of this project for other broke down stuff, but it's come back, as I figured it would. I've been muddling over this situation a while. Frankly, I hate to part out the E, I just have a feeling it is a better machine. Both have been sitting for 3-4 years at least, I believe so there's not much telling what I'll find wrong. Sitting isn't good for these things, as I'm sure you know.
I worked on these transmissions in Case machines and feel they are really reliable. Like Vetech said you need to test all the electrical and hyd. systems on this machine before you condemn the whole machine.
mg, so you're saying that both of the machines in my situation have ZF transmissions? If the rain will let up I'll crawl around and see if I can find the tag on both to make sure. The E does for sure. Have a tag pic from that one. It's a 4WG-150 for sure. The G I can't easily see the trans tag on. If I understand you correctly, the G also has a ZF.
That would be correct.
Thank mg.
Hi all, I got ZF 6WG 200 gearbox, and the problem is that it goes to front, but backwards it tries to go, but doesn't move, parking brake is released, everything is released, it moves in front, but it just doesn't move backwards at all, tried going a bit up hill and then putting it into reverse, doesn't work, I thought I would ask you guys.
Hi John, reading through your message I'm afraid one of the forward clutches is warped, either KV or K4. Terex or Moxy dump truck? Or something else? However before pulling out the box, you should check a few items. Pressure check of clutches on control valve. You got a manual for the box? If not, please leave a PN, I could get you one. When trying to run in R, what is engine speed? Like stall rpm (around 1800 rpm) or high idle (around 2200 rpm)? Oil is clean? Or smells burnt? Any debris in filter? 6WG 200 got sinter discs, so shiny particles should be visible there. When pulling away in 1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th, which gears seem to run easier? The even gears run with K4, the odd with KV.
OK guys, this machine is back on the stove... I messed with it a bit today and added some cleaner/additive I've had some success with in the past, and I guess I still believe in it. BUT....there's always a but... Here's where I left it today, miracle juice notwithstanding. I have F in 1 and 4 only. 2 and 3 are like slamming on the brakes if it's moving, or stuck with parking brake on or something if trying to start in 2 or 3, it's just locked up. In R, I have nothing in 1, but 2,3 and 4 are pretty much normal. It took a while, but the juice cleaned and loosened up whatever was sticking the valves or pistons....but no effect on F2 or F3. This transmission appears to be pre-electronic. It has 2 levers by the steering wheel. One for FNR and the other for 1,2,3,4. It seems that these levers control a valve box that is hosed to the trans. It's a 4WG-150. It would seem like an incorrect pair of clutch packs are energized in F2, F3. R1 may be a separate issue. Does anyone have a clutch chart for this trans? It's a J-D 544E sn DW544ED538074
I PM'd you.
Hi Tony, hope mg2361 got you some more info on the unit. I'll get you the operators manual of a regular 4WG150 in PM. However I can't tell you whether the 544E configuration is described exactly. The two lever system usually was the mechanical shift system with no solenoids, only mechanical links and bars to spools. Is the valve box directly fitted to t/m housing or mounted somewhere separately? For cost reasons I'd assume fitted sideways on housing. (Deere always payed lowest prices ) Transmission got 4 speeds F and 3 speeds R, so position 3 and 4 in R are same clutches KR and K3. Your description of behaviour is somehow strange. I thought KR possibly is seized, however 4F working is not possibly with KR bad. Check pressure on control valve. And possibly share a few pics of transmission, shift lever and valve box. That might help to identify.
Bigbert, you mean my description is strange, or the behavior? OK, I didn't realize the there really isn't a 4R. It's the same valving as 3R. That what you meant? I'll get it washed up and get some pics. The valve box is located just under the floorboard, separate from the trans housing. The fact that it is mechanical should make this easier to diagnose. As I read through the info you provided, is seems that there should never be a "locked" position for the trans. It should freewheel in any gear, like going downhill, and it even mentioned there is no transmission braking. So it locking up has to be a clutch issue or something that is triggering the parking brake. I guess I could d/c that and see. That is, if it's the external drum brake that I think it is. There is no "Park" position or provision in the trans itself. In F2 anf F3, it surely won't coast. It's stopped dead. That's what has be puzzled. In R1, I have no drive, but it will roll. It is not locking up there. I think that's a different problem, or perhaps the 3 available R speeds are 2,3,4 and not 1,2,3. That doesn't make sense, but I'm not German (I'm Hungarian). It will be Monday before I get back to that one. Meeting a tech about the EC250EL this morning, awaiting his phone call now. Looks like he's waiting for it to warm up . I'm ready for some Fall weather. Thanks a lot, Bigbert. Tony
Thanks mg, that should help my understanding. Tony
Behavior is strange, not description, Tony. 3rd AND 4th R got KR/K3, 3rd F is KV/K3, 4th F is K4/K3. So F 1,2,3,4, R 1,2,3. As long as gaskets and seal rings are fine, there is no "locking" possible. Are you able to disconnect parking brake? That is the drum at t/m output, cable or hydraulically applied, not supplied from control block. Again, check pressures on control block.
I can see the brake drum and I believe I can d/c the cable. I can't make the connection with trying to use F2 and F3 with its engagement though, but I have not looked specifically at that. If it isn't controlled by the shifter control box, what could make it engage in those conditions? There has been some electrical butchering on this machine, so if it's electrically controlled, then maybe. But why F2, F3 only? Is there some electrical function related to being in those two speed positions, probably not working at this time? What pressure range should I be looking at? I need to read though that paper again, a time or two. I noticed on the first read-through a few typographical errors and odd word selections. I assume it was a translation from an originally German document. Not a bad job, just obviously not originally English. Tech docs must be the hardest to render into another language. My sister used to be an interpreter/translator, English/Spanish. OSHA docs and Safety Manuals are tough. So is law...she did dome Fed court stuff. It's legaly required to have an interpreter present at hearings, depositions, and court sessions if your English comprehension prevents accurate understanding. She also worked ER at a large hospital for about 15 years. Just retired, in fact. Sidetracked....
Hi Tony again, please share a few pics, so we know what we are talking about. Frankly speaking I'd exclude the (mechanical) drum brake, but you (and I) never know. You can disconnect and block the hoses to clutches to get a better picture of situation, but first step should be pressure readings. Pressures to clutches are max. around 17 bar (approx. 250 PSI). Yeah, these books were translated some decades ago straight from German with some misleading words and terms. Sorry for this. Isn't it Sunday tomorrow? Read through it and come back with questions.
I have not taken any of her than the machine and trans ID tags yet. I believe there is a sheet metal cover that will allow better access to the control box so I will remove it and hopefully my wash guy will have done his bit by then so there will be usable pictures. Among the things this machine needs is repacking both steering cylinders so if I pull them I won’t be able to do much test driving. If I bring it inside and lock the frame I can at least go forward and backwards a bit though. I’d rather not have it in the way right now though. There are already 3 projects running in that shop. One may get finished and out Monday though. Depends on how the 250 Volvo goes. That meetup deal for this morning didn’t work out so now that’s Monday morning. No apology needed. I’m just glad to have it. Nothing is so “wrong” that it doesn’t make sense. Since we can’t rule out the brake and I think it’s easy to disable, I will do that. Just to eliminate it from the suspect list if nothing else. And yep tomorrow is Sunday
Park brake and the transmission are all mechanical. If you disconnect the cable then the PB is out of the picture. I agree with Bigbert, that won't be the problem. Most likely issue will be pressure to 2 clutches at the same time that are not supposed to be pressurized. Pressure spec for that machine is 210-240 psi @ 1500 rpm with 150* oil temp.
mg, I am in agreement that the P-brake isn’t likely. And I see no way there is a connection; as you said, it’s mechanical. The pedal in the cab is there and that’s all I can see connected to the drum mechanism. I’ve thought from the beginning that a an incorrect pair of clutches are energized when in the speed selector is in those two positions. If that’s the case, it seems likely that the issue is in the control box rather than the transmission itself. That will be a welcome finding if that’s what the tests show. I have no problem tearing it down and examining the internal parts if that’s what it comes to. I wonder who built that piece, Deere or ZF... We have a Parker distributor here so I should be able to get those specific fittings. I don’t believe I have everything needed. Gauge and hose and some adapters but not that quick change for sure I appreciate very much the help from you guys.
ZF WG150
Hi mg, Not sure whether Tony was only talking about control valve or entire box. The remote control was usually sold on some cranes, perhaps a few dump trucks. The remote system on 4WG I'm not sure. Especially in mechanical control. Waiting for pictures.
Doesn’t look like a good day to work outside. Been raining a while and radar models show likely rain until noon or so. I’m supposed to meet a Volvo tech on the 250 digger this morning, but have not heard from him yet. Wouldn’t blame him for asking to delay his visit a bit. At that location there isn’t a building we could limp into. If the machine is where I saw it last, I won’t be able to drive up near it. The loaders keep that mud stirred up into foot deep mush. We’ll see... Bigbert, I was thinking about who built the control box. There isn’t any doubt on the t/m. Probably ZF.
Hey guys, could anyone send me 6WG 200 Gearbox/Transmission Service/Repair manual
Sent you a PM.
OK, I was wrong. I removed the plastic skirt on the loader, hoping to be able to easily see and access the control box. As dirty as it is, what I thought was the control box wasn't. Bigbert was right...the control box is on the left side of the transmission proper. And tucked up high behind a frame rail. The shift levers, after they go through the floorboard, are simply attached to lever arms that push/pull cables that wind their way back to the control box. This can't be to complex, it's only two cables. There are a couple of electrical components, but I suspect they are pressure and temperature sensors. It's still filthy, and I have made arrangements to have it pressure washed so I couldn't really get any usable pictures. I did see something odd (to me at least) It's in the pic I will post. After moving some things around in my shop I'll get it inside where I can get some better lighting and hopefully pictures that will help. Meanwhile I'll be rounding up the pressure test materials. Obviously we can see one of the spools and linkage, but up higher there is what appears to be a fitting (some sort of hose barb maybe?). The reason that popped into mind is that there is a disconnected hose just dangling but it's a little more towards the front of the machine. However, it would easily reach this fitting and appears to be about the right size. It's open and caked with dirt and looks like it has been like that for a long time. It maybe a bleeder fitting, on the other hand. I've not searched the manual yet to see if I can spot it. Open to suggestions. So the plan is: Washdown, pressure check, pictures if I can do better, and depending on pressure test report, some plan probably to remove it from the transmission. I'll have it inside out of the weather if it comes to that.
Neutral start switch and Reverse warning alarm switch. Bleeder for bleeding the clutch cutout circuit.
So, Tony, do some pressure checks according image: M16x1,5 thread
mg, there is one more hiding somewhere then, because there is a low pressure warning light on the dash. I can't see everything yet. I was tired when I was looking yesterday, so I probably just missed it. Someone has been under there already. WIRENUTS in use Bigbert, I'll go by the Parker store today and see if they have the proper connections. Port 65 is an M10 x 1,5 (M10-1.5 over here ) Those all ORB style? Seems the specifics were in the manual. I'll check. That map is clearer than the scan in the manual also, so thank you! My eyes (glasses) need renewing. Must have been tired when I made that post too....that control is on the RIGHT side of the machine.
Tony, I'm not sure whether you will be able to get the M10x1.5 fitting, as these are not very common. Guess, the thread on control block is a M10x1, please check. Wondering how a M10x1.5 would look like. However port 65 is the main clutch pressure which is distributed to clutches with the spools. So for investigation of the system the clutch pressures are relevant, not 65. All ports max. 250 PSI.
Frankly, I can't see that they would use a M10 anything on a hydraulic fitting. The ID would be very small, unless that is the ID. I have spent the last hour or so looking for something in the documents that I have been provided and cannot find it. There was a list of needed test fittings, even specifying a 300 PSI gauge. There was mention of a quick-disconnect and the use of some ORB connections as well. But I cannot find it. My filing system leaves something to be desired, evidently. My solution is to go pull a line from the diagram and see what it is, I suppose.
"Someone" needs their f'kin hands cut off with a machete.........
Parker No. 4M10 x 1 F80X-S https://ph.parker.com/us/en/triple-lok-37-flare-jic-tube-fittings-and-adapters/4m10f8omxs
https://www.parker.com/literature/Q..._sections/PD Series-Catalog 3800_SectionF.pdf
Nige, you are a man after my own heart. Chopping off hands has always been a favorite of mine. Hatchet works too. OK mg, which paper had those listed? I know I have it, I just can't find it, even still attached to the PM's! I gotta slow down and take a little time on this. I feel like I am rushing. Things went sour today. A machine caught fire, so as I was trying to wash the 544 down, I had to go dig around in the oily burnt sawdust to find what happened and fix it. It appears as though the machine has been leaking oil for months and attracting sawdust, but the op swears it was washed down less than 2 weeks ago. I don't believe that. The entire machine looks like it hasn't been washed down in 6 months. Even inside some of the control panels, there is a mix of hydraulic valves and wiring, and 4 inches of buildup of fine dust and oil. It has doors, but they aren't really sealed. But it hasn't been cleaned out. I told the owner it will no doubt burn again and maybe worse unless he starts pushing those guys to clean the equipment. It just has to be done. I don't see how they do any PM like grease or even filter changes. They probably don't. Needless to say, I did not even try to get the pressure test gear for the 544 today. Got it halfway washed, and will try to get the helper I have to soak it down with degreaser and have another go at it tomorrow. At least I can see the connection side of the control box now. Still going to be tough getting to. But have to do it. Since suspicions are that two incorrect clutches are pressured up, wouldn't it make sense to have a couple of gauge sets on it? Or just move from one port to the other and log all the results for each gear selection?
It was my late father's threat to me if he ever saw me using what is known as a crescent wrench on your side of the Pond on any bolt or nut.
I use adjustable end wrenches all the time. Most of my tools are so old and worn that the adjustable one has a tighter fit. I had an old timer tell me that it was time to retire when the 11/16" end wrench rounds off a 3/4" bolt head. My 11/16" does that now, but the fit all still works for most of what I do.
I use them now and then...when I need a cheater pipe on something. I also have a tiny one to use where I can't see ahead of time to guess the size. If they aren't worn out, they have a place. They also bend sheet metal
Yep