I've searched threads and it seems there may be a few conditions to check. I want to get some specific troubleshooting recommendations. This tractor has always started with a snort of ether but today it would only fire long enough to burn off the ether. It wouldn't continue to run. It was running a few weeks ago and has been sitting in a garage. It fired up easily after winter hibernation with its customary snort of ether. It's not puffing smoke while cranking today so I suspect no fuel. The fuel shut off is rotating to both stops. Could it be that it's not operating properly inside the pump? I bled the filter and fuel flows easily to that point. I don't want to crack anything else open and introduce air into the fuel system without knowing what I'm doing. Should I take the top cover off to verify the shut off is working properly? Some basic checks would be appreciated. I don't have a manual.
Crack the injector lines at the injectors and see if you are getting any fuel there. Make sure your shutoff cable is working properly and that it's not slipping on lever.
The shut off cable isn't slipping at the pump lever. I did check that. I read in other posts that the mechanisms inside might be stuck so I wondered if that's something I can verify as a next step if there's no fuel at the injectors. I think I'll take the hood off to get at the injector lines to loosen them. I take it I just loosen them and crank the starter to check for fuel leaking from the fittings?
Remove the fuel return line and fitting from top of pump and see if you get fuel flow when you crank engine over. you can remove the top of pump to check shutoff lever. Good idea on checking injection lines.
A little fuel trickled out of the return line and nothing when cranking over the engine.
Loosened the second injector supply line at the injector and no fuel. Next it seems I should take the top cover off the pump to check the shutoff lever. I've cleaned the top of the pump body with carb cleaner and loosened the three screws. Are there any tricks to taking the top off? Tap it to break the seal? What should I be looking for inside?
do a search for "RoosaMaster metering valve".. The mv might be stuck or the return line might be clogged.. take the line off the top, loosen the fuel tank cap & use a blow gun to blow back to the tank thru the return line.. listen for bubbles.
Pictures say a lot. Can someone tell me where the timing marks are so I can set it to TDC to remove the pump.
Remove the side window, you will see a stationary mark as you turn the engine the other mark will come around. Align them and then remove the pump.
Don't I have to also check the timing mark on the engine to make sure it's at TDC?
You can if you want but when the two marks in pump are aligned the engine should be in time. Providing the injection pump was installed correctly to begin with. There is a teardrop shaped window on bell housing that you can check engine timing there.
Well the pump is rebuilt and the tractor is running but every injector is leaking at the fuel line fitting. I bought new rubber seals since the old ones were chewed up or missing. I pushed them into fuel line couplers. Are the seals in the right spot? Should I tighten them more?
There are no seals that go between the injector and the injector line the seal is on the end of the line . Those seals ( in the first photo) go in the return fuel line fittings.
So just metal on metal? When I took them off 3 out of 4 had a rubber seal in the coupler on the line. What I bought for the supply lines was A58962. I bought the return line seals 87017023 and they're smaller than the ones I have on the supply lines. Who knows if it has replacement lines. The engine serial is 2628105 and the parts diagram for that model (attached) show supply lines with separate couplers and a grommet. Unfortunately the part descriptions on the Case site are messed up. The injectors prior to 2627377 look different than mine but the fuel lines look the same. I seem to have a combination of earlier supply lines and later injectors from both series.
RE Read what Coy said, There were never any rubber seals on the high pressure injector lines, I do not care if someone for whatever reason put something in there. I have done hundreds of them over 52 years as a Case tech, the only seal rings are in the return line fittings! #16 in your diagram is the metal seat That crimps onto the line and not a loose piece once it is in place.
#16 in the diagram is what I'm calling a coupler. It's loose on the line and is turned to join to the injector. What is #15?
It is the steel ferrule that is on the end of the line.
That's golden right there. Lose all rubber you have going to those injectors.
Perfect, thanks for the extra details everyone. I will be picking the rubber grommets out with a dental pick standing on my head. That should be fun avoiding removing the lines. On the other end I read the torque for the banjo bolts is 35 ft. lbs. That seems like a lot. Can someone confirm this? I don't want to strip the threads on my rebuilt pump. It's like gold to me right now.
Where did you read that ? I never have used a torque wrench on one. I always Just tighten them up without going crazy.
Read the torque in the service manual for Model B 580CK. Newer but basically the same pump. I thought 20 ft lbs. was plenty.
35 ft pounds sounds about right to me for the injector lines. I promise the coupler that is on the injector pump is good quality steel that can take the torque. Always screw the nuts on most of the way with your fingers, get one end just started then get the other end started before tightening both ends finger tight, then final tighten with tools. One wrench on each side of the connection, especially at those pencil injectors. two wrenches keeps you from twisting something that shouldn't be twisted, it also makes it much easier to achieve a controllable torque. Those are NOT BANJO bolts, typical fuel system banjo bolts will be much less than 35 ft lbs. Banjo bolts get overtightened, distorted and leak. They need new or annealed washers any time they're tightened.
This is true, but so many times I've worked with these and NOT had a new washer. I can usually get enough squeeze there to reuse.
Copper work hardens. To anneal it, heat it up so it shows some color, let it cool in the air, or quench it in water, it doesn't matter it won't harden in water, only work harden.
The banjo bolts I'm referring to at 35 ft. lbs are on the pump. It's a bolt with a hole down the middle and out the side of the bolt near the head. Is that not the correct terminology? The rebuilder gave me new washers for them. The other end of the fuel lines at the injectors is a 2-wrench process for tightening. I haven't found any spec or process (hand tighten then 1/2 turn or something) on how to tighten these. This is what's leaking. After I remove the rubber grommets and re-connect them I'll be wondering how tight to go.
You're right, I forgot all about that style on the injection pump. "high pressure fuel line SCREWS" does sound like what you're referring to. If the washers are aluminum, then go ahead and retorque. Copper I think I'd remove and anneal before retorqueing.
I think the washers are steel. I dropped one and found it with a magnet. The rubber grommets are removed and the lines tightened to the injectors. I can see the coupler nuts are threaded on further now. I didn’t want to fire her up at 10:30 at night to check for leaks. Fingers crossed for tomorrow’s start up.
DB Model IP Connector Screw / Banjo Bolt Torque is 35 ft lbs. Lubricate threads /washers with clean oil before install. Illustration below is in inch lbs 420 in lbs = 35 ft lbs page 47 in Roosa Master DB Model Pump Manual
Start at 25ftlbs... if it leaks go to 30. I’ve never gone to 35 to get 1 to stop leaking, just changed the washer..
I started at 20 ft. lbs and no leaks. I can't even get on the two bolts on the engine side of the pump with a torque wrench. How do you tighten those two? I took the rubber grommets out of the fuel line nuts at the injectors and 3 out of 4 don't leak. I just have #4 leaking a little now. I was going to loosen it off and make sure it's clean and aligned. How tight can they be before I over-do it?
Victory is mine. No leaks. Thanks for the help.