Hey guys I have a 350 cummins small cam that came out of a 1969 freightliner cabover truck. The tag on tbe gear case is long gone. I have looked everywhere i can think of and cannot locate a serial number anywhere. Any ideas? I gotta have a serial number cause parts guys cant find crap without a serial number. My mom might by some chance have the truck title in a bank box but its like pulling teeth to get her to go look! If i can get the truck serial there might be a chance freightliner can get me an engine serial. Thats a huge maybe! Anyhow pictired are the usual spots on the drivers side of block just under the heads. As you can see nada!
Normally Cummins stamped the left rear corner just below the deck, but some replacement blocks were blank.
The first picture is that area. Sorry the picture quality suks. My camera got messed up when i left my phone in my pocket sandblasting on my last project! On the replacement block thought! I had the thought that it may be a replacement block and why no tag or stamped serial number. There is a casting tag that looks like a date it was cast. I will get a picture of that tommorow to see what your thoughts are on it. Anyhow if that is a date tag then it was cast in 75 which would definatly make it a replacement block as the truck is a 69! If thats true then my only hope is that my mom might still have that title and freightliner can tell me the engine serial originally installed! Being that old its a maybe!
I have an H743 with that problem
If you do use the vin number hopefully you find the right parts guy, because Freightliner shelved most of the info on the old stuff. What were you needing in parts?
I need an oil pan. I had a dipshit i was letting rent space in my yard and he went and picked it up with his forklift and crushed the cast pan. I need a front sump onstead of the rear sump anyhow for the truck im gona put it in. Plus tje oil cooler dosent have a spin on filter. Looks like some kind of cartridge filter set up! Like to get that set up to a spin on. Rear motor mount isolators and so on. You know tbe usuall for an engine transplant lol!
Yeah it has a cartridge up front top right? For the oil pan you can pretty much use any from a 335 or 350 {front sump} but those are hard to find these days. What side is the starter on?
Yep that right on the filter. Im sure its gotta have some sort of gasket or oring when ya change the filter. Be nice to find a spin on set up! Starter is on the passenger side. Its a 24v. The old truck had that series parrallel solenoid switch. I have a fairly new 12v mt40 to put on it. I already checked and rotation is correct.
If you can find a front sump pan for the high pressure pump you can use any off of 335, 350 or even a Big Cam I. You can still buy that filter and gasket. But the oil suction hose from pan to pump you will have to have made, Cummins has discontinued a bunch of that stuff. You can still buy quite a bit of the parts from Cummins or aftermarket but some items are obsolete.
There is a place here local that says they should have a pan. $350. Seems a little high but thats half new. Some of this stuff is just gona be custom stuff. Its going in a 1987 flc setback axle in place of a 3406b cat thats siezed! The front engine mounts will bolt right up. Not sure on rear yet but to me thats the easy part lol!
Sometimes that's the only way-build custom stuff, you have the equipment and desire. The price on that pan is not too bad for a hard to find item.
I don't know if this applies or if it is even still available but the NAPA and Wix filter paper catalogs had a substantial section toward the back on converting cartridge filters to spin-on. If you can't get your hands on one I could use mine to help if you want to give the measurements. If we find something hopefully it is still in stock somewhere.
Its all built into the oil cooler housing. You would have to change the oil cooler to one with a spin on housing.
Here is the picture of the casting tag which i think is the date this block was cast. That would make this a replacement block as the truck was a 69.
What I meant was that the catalog section has adapter plates and gaskets and the like along with nipples that thread into where the existing filter center bolt goes and then a standard spin-on will thread into its place.
Here you can see the cartridge filter housing. It would be interesting to see whats avalible for conversion.
Well heres the update. Managed to find the vehicle vin this engine came out of. Freightliner dealer was no help as they dont have info that old. Found a guy on a fb group that has the old microfiche. He says it dosent show a serial numer of engine installed but shows it should be a nt-335. I was pretty sure this is a 350 and the cpl number 160 on the pump corosponds with a nt or ntc350. So id say that coupled with the 1975 casting date on the block means this engine was a transplant in that truck. About all i know about it is that its either a ntc or nt 350, Built around 1975, Not original engine in the truck from where it came and no serial number anywhere to be found! Lol looks like that may be as far as i can get with it. This is gona be real fun getting parts at cummins! Here are a few more pics. Dont know if you guys can gleen any information off them that might help me. Sorry for the pic quality as my camera is on its way out!
So the filter is inside that cast housing with what looks like 6-8 bolts around the top and bottom above the alternator?
Yes. Kind of an odd setup!
That engine is a 335 with a 350 pump. all NTC 350's were after cooled, 335's were not after cooled. 335's had the cartridge filter up front, 350's had either a canister or spin-on.
I think i read somewhere that some of the early 350s did not have the aftercooler. Just reay hard to say at this point. As old as most of this is and all things not adding up it can be a hienze 57 mix and match special built from a junk pile for all I know lol! Guess i will never really know without a serial number! Thats one area cummins really dropped the ball on being consistent with serial number location!
if that eng has a taper nose crank its a 335 for sure . was also rated as nta 380 for which I have an after cooler that fits it
Cool another clue! How do i tell which nose it is? I assume i need to pull the harmonic balancer off. Whats the difference between nt and ntc? I have been told it was a nt350 and also a ntc350 based on that pump cpl
Oh also i dont know that i need an aftercooler. The truck its going in has a carge air cooler. I thinks thats a more effiecent way to do it anyhow. May upgrade from that antique turbo though lol!
the crank will have 1 large I believe 1x1/4 ' bolt in center instead of 6 smaller
Can't see the end of that crank, but some 335's that were late production had the late blunt nose crank using six bolts instead of the single gland bolt. Water pump is another different item, I don't see a idler pulley for the water pump.
really not can`t tell for sure but that looks like the older concentric pump.
Lol this is funny i was just gona add that it has the old style screw in pump. Dont know if that means anything. I will look at the crank nose when i get home.
It's a 335.
Is that based on the water pump? If its a 335 i am a bit disapointed lol. Guess it really dont matter. It will do what i need it to do!
Really the only huge difference between a 335 and 350 other than the crank was the after cooler. Technically a after cooled 335 is a 350. That was Cummins up-grade to reach 350 hp. Other than the water pump and oil filtering there is not much difference. Most 335's that broke a tapered nosed crank were over fueled and because of that there were alot of pistons that got cooked. That's where the after cooler came in play. The 335 was a good engine in it's day. That turbo-without seeing it up close could be a old Schweitzer those turned up slow. But most any turbo back then was slow, that's why a driver needed to not let the rpm fall below 1700 on the up shifts. To much turbo lag below 1700, it was hard for them to recover.
Well I guess the pic answers that question lol! Definatly a tapered nose. So im gathering that couples with the ecentric pump makes it a nt350 for sure. Ok so some thoughts. Thats all assuming it was built to original cpl right? I mean we already know its got a 350 pump on it. So if i knew things like what cam, injectors, turbo, engine timing and so on then it could be built to a 350 cpl right? One bobble i do know of is that my dad rebuilt this thing back in the 80s. When he did they screwed up and put 400 pistons in it. I know that by the old recipts from when he built it. I had to figure out why it smoked so bad at idle back when i ran it in 92. Long story short i did some custom hot timming to get it to stop smoking. Basiclly i have been told with the 400 pistons it makes it a low compression 350. Or now i know 335 lol! Anyhow so it sounds like an aftercooler is good for 45 hp. Im sure thats with some different timming and fuel setting i would bet though????
The truck its going into. Its replacing a siezed 3306b. Cat says it was a 310hp engine when it went out thier door!
The stock timing for a NTC350 was 36, IIRC the 335's were 33. With NTC350 non top stop injectors, pump, turbo and correct pistons with a after cooler you have a 350.
Tag on the turbo!
You know the pump is excentric and turns in the block to adjust the belt. They often started leaking after adjustment. We cut the old belt off and rolled a new one on. Stayed with the same brand and number. Never turned the pump after installed. A touch of fuel and that charge air cooler will wake it up a bit.
I changed that pump back in 92 when it was in the truck. Truck was overheating but everything in the system looked good. No leaks and system was hokding pressure. Changed thermostat and same thing. I just happened to notice that when the cap was off and it was up to temp the water was not moving! I pulled the pump and found it had a phenolic impeller that fell off the shaft! That one was a head scratcher to find! Who would expect an impeller to come off?
that water pump is still available but must be ordered cummins will not have it in stock the 743 cube 220- 262 uses the same pump as does some of the 855 cu 250s
Guys more than anything i would like to see this engine run again! Main reason for me is that my dad bought the truck it was in back in the early 80s! It put food on the table for me and my 2 brothers for many years. It was rebuilt and shortly after that in about 92 i built a dump box and put it on the truck. I sold all my lawn mowing equipment i amassed in high school and paid for the materials to build a box. The box was also built out of a salvaged underground fuel tank. I ran the truck for about a year and paid cash to go through colorado areo tech to be an aircraft mechanic! No student loan debt at all! Thank you old freightliner! In the end the aircraft career was a fkn nightmare and probably a huge contribution to my alcoholism! I have come full circle and am most happy dump trucking and enjoy the people i meet doing this far more than the aircraft crowd! Still the aircraft education made me tbe person and technician that i am today. There are principals that apply no matter the machine and what mode of earth it operates on! I want to see this thing go again because its a special part of my history that made me what i am today and gave me the knowledge and abillity to provide for my family even in a pathetic worn down physical state that im in! Its would be an honor to wield this nobel machine one again! Does that sound crazy? I will keep up on this thread as i get it back to life!
Good for you!
Crazy? no way
workshoprat That looks like a 335 to me. It has a taper nose crank. Does it have two oil pickup lines from the oil pan to the pump? The NTC350 had a jacket water aftercooler and six 5/8" bolts holding the damper on the front of the crank. Someone may have replaced the pump and injectors with a 350 pump and injectors to try to gain a little horsepower. They were a good engine in their day. The lack of a serial number on the engine probably means the block was replaced at some point. They were prone to counterbore cracks Sometimes the cracks could be repaired with salvage sleeves but not always. Cummins had a publication called a CPL manual or Control Parts List. You could look up the CPL number for your engine and it gave all the needed part numbers for the injectors, cam heads turbo, pistons pump code and timing. I rebuilt quite a few NT335 engines. I used CPL: 0160 or 0021 which are both an NTC 350 and timed them at -0.041". Terry