I adjusted the valves/injectors and it seemed to run fine. I replaced the luber finer oil filter(the large 2nd filter mounted on the fire wall of this International 4370) and now it will not fire at all. I manually opened the fuel shut off valve on the fuel pump and still no fire. All of this after having the block heater on for at least 2 hours. Good batteries and spinning fast on ignition. Any ideas? Thanks, DBS
Does it have a "Jake" brake on it? Could be an issue with the bridge settings, or the jake itself could be activating. When you tried to start it did it pop at all or make any odd noises or smoke? Or just dead spinning?
Yes it does have a Jake. I pulled the wires off of the Jakes and still no fire. Could the Jakes engage without and electrical power to them? it does produce some smoke when cranking but absolutely no firing. Thanks, DBS
Did you try a sniff of either ?
Anything's possible, including a fuel issue. Take a look at the control solenoid on the center brake housing, make sure the cap pushes down and pops back up. Take a look under the brake housings and see if the master pistons are extended down to where they are activated by the pushrod end of the injector rocker arm. You can get the Jacobs manual here: http://www.jacobsvehiclesystems.com/files/file/Troubleshooting-Guide.pdf Seems odd it quit running after the filter change, wonder if it's unrelated or something happened in the course of doing that job?
No, it has always started with the block heater in the past. Is ether more helpful than a warm block?
I just thought it might hehp find the trouble if she fires up on it and runs good that would rule out the jakes & valves at least .Also now that you set the injectors to the correct torque they are putting out less fuel than when they were loose which could cause hard starting in a worn engine .Hopes this helps.
The control selenoids in all the Jakes move freely and there is lots of room between the master cylinders and the injector rockers but thanks, DBS
well, if the exhaust valves have clearance, and the injectors are set correctly, or close to it, then it has to be a fuel problem somewhere. As Shopguy suggests a little squirt of starting fluid ( I always avoid the stuff when possible) or even WD40 in the air intake will light her off for a few seconds at least even if it's not getting enough fuel. Have you cracked a fuel line at the shutoff to see if it's pumping diesel?
Sounds like you ran the valves/injectors ,changed the oil filter and possibly engine oil.Did you change the fuel filter? Not uncommon on a fuel filter change to get a gulp of air and the pump loose prime.Try removing the fuel filter and "topp" it off with diesel then try the engine again.If it starts keep it at about 1500 rpm until it picks up full prime,if ya let it idle it may just die again.Hopfully its someting simple.At first I thought the truck may have a "kaiser" guage system where you had to hold in on the button at the oil guage until the engine oil pressure built, but sence you screwed in the manual valve on top of the pump that would have bypassed any electrical problem.
I'll be interested to hear what the problem turns out to be....
Same here Markat425.Heck I forgot to add check the fuel level in the tank. Had a fertilizer company bring me a lime spreader truck years ago and they said the truck had a miss in it on a hard pull. Truck had a 300 cummins in it and I jumped in and took it for a drive and sure enough got on some hills and it would miss.Got back to the shop and threw the hood open to look at the pump and suction lines,While I was under the hood dad walked up and looked in the fuel tank & said "You better put some fuel in this truck before ya pull the pump or injectors". The truck had what I call "torpedo" style fuel tank,narrow and long .Worst style of tank for an off road truck.It had about 1/8 tank of fuel in it so we filled her up and fixed the problem Sometimes a guy can get in a hurry and miss the obvious problem.
You were right, there is little to no fuel coming out of the fuel shutoff valve on the pump even with the valve manually opened. It's hard to believe the pump is bad since it ran great prior to it not starting. Is it possible for the shutoff valve to still be the problem? Are the other possibilities than the pump itself being bad? Also the fuel filter is new and full of fuel, there is good fuel flow to the filter, the tubing from the fuel filter to the pump doesn't appear to have any leaks. Thanks for all the great suggestions. DBS
Hmm, could be nothing more than an air lock, I didn't follow, did you change the fuel filter before or after it failed to start? Make sure you're getting power to the solenoid when the key switch is on, or at least when cranking, it may have a low oil pressure shutoff, you never know. See the last page of this link for priming instructions, I knew I was forgetting something: http://oregonfuelinjection.com/pdf/cummins-pt-pump-installation-removal-instructions.pdf
Give the engine a decent shot of either. By the time you squirt at the filter most has disipated but if it fires you at least have an idea that all mechanicals are in order cept for the fuel sol. If you can get somebody else to turn the key on , I believe you may be able to hear the sol click or lay your hand on it and you may be able to feel it when it engages .If you didn't top the fuel filter right off with fuel , chances are you got an air lock. if its starts on either the engine should bleed itself pretty quick .
This seems like a strange one. The old cummins are the easiest to refire after running out of fuel. I had one that quit with temps in the teens. We thought is was gelled up. Filled new filter and it fired up close hood get in and it died. After doing this 3 or more times as mentioned about my dad asked did you check the tank? Well you know the rest of the story. Anyways mine always fire up with just cranking, some times quite a bit. And sometimes a shot of ether to speed up the process. as mentioned above a few times give it a good spray and see what it does. It will not hurt it.
I had replaced the filter several weeks ago and had run it many times since without difficulty. One strange finding is that a few days ago when it wouldn't fire at all I removed the filter to check for water etc. and I found the filter only half full of fuel which I couldn't explain. Could the fuel have siphoned back into the tanks as the truck had not been started for a few weeks or does this indicate a problem? I then filled the filter and put it back on. Thanks, DBS
Sure sounds like you have a suction leak dbs. That would explain the filter being half full.Could be anywhere from the pump back to the drop tube in the tank.Dont know what setup you have ,I have a 1973 white 4000 with 290 small cam and it uses a remote filter bolted to the truck frame .Also have a 1974 pete with a 300 big cam and it has the filter on the pump.On both trucks at the back of the pump are some capscrews that hold the filter base to the pump like on the pete,and on the white the same screws hold a threaded plate for the suction line the go's to the remote filter base.Got to thinking about this thread today......I might try snugging up the capscrews then work your way back to the tank.I've never seen these screws cause trouble in the past but anything is possible.
I think you are likely right. I was thinking there might be a check valve in the system to keep the fuel from being siphoned back into the tank which I think may have happened. I followed the instructions Iantraxco had provided in a link and filled the pump from the top. I think it was completely empty as it took about a pint of fuel. I cranked it for about 20 seconds and it took right off and ran perfectly. My set up is like your older truck with the fuel filter mounted remotely near the fuel tank. Thanks for the advice and all the other members who helped me out.
no one came by and flipped your compression release!!! maybe it doesn't have one just the one thing i didn't see listed here..............theironoracle
I talked to the cummins dealer today he reported the there is a check valve on the pump that can go bad so I'll be checking that to see if that was the culprit.
There is a small check valve built in the 90 degree fitting on the back of the pump.It allows fuel to circulate from the gear pump to the return side back to the tank when fuel is not needed such as when the truck is going down hill.My cummins trouble shooting manual also states that if the check valve hangs open it will allow air to enter the suction side of the system.So that could be the problem or a easy place to start looking.Good luck with it dbs.
That's the part I got from the dealer today. I'm going to assume this is the problem and replace it. I'm very interested in the trouble shooting guide you referenced. Could you send me the title and where I might obtain it. Thanks DBS
Hopefully the check valve takes care of the problem. My book is titled "Troubleshooting and repair manual big cam III and big cam IV, NT 855 engines". It's a god send for cummins owners,I bought mine in 1989. Might give Cummins a call and see if they have them available . After a search on the world wide waste of time I found this site www.cumminspartsdirect.com/Products/212498-3810298.aspx That sounds like the same manual. Pretty good book,has a list of trouble symptems then it shows solutions .
Thats great you got the cummins fixed dbs.About the troubleshooting manual I forgot to add that it was printed in 1986 and my manual has a bulletin number of 3810298-00 on the inside cover. I noticed the part number of the book at the cumminspartsdirect site is 3810298 so i'm satisfied its the same book.I think I paid around 75$ for mine back in 1989 so 128.28 dont sound bad.Just wanted to pass that along.
Thanks again for all the great info. I actually asked the dealer if they could get me that publication. I don't know how they did it but they shipped it over night no charge and it only cost me $86. The dealer here is very good and want to help even the little guy. My engine is the small cam ntc350. The manual is very good even though it is written for a later model, many of the parts are similar.