Hello Guys: Just bought a 1975 John Deere 410 loader/backhoe last Friday and have been playing with it much of the weekend to find anything wrong with it. The hoe is a US Army model and appears to have been parked for years although it does have quite a few hours. 1) It appears all the cylinders have been repacked and none leak. However the front loader cylinders don't move smoothly sometimes. The cylinder shafts seem to be very dry and just don't slide smoothly unless I spray them with WD40 and then it squeegees off after a few cycles and bind up again. 2) I am having the problem where it needs ether to start when cold and then I have to wait 10 minutes if it cuts off before I can start it again. I have read about the destroke solenoid valve and don't know if this machine even has one. From what I read I don't seem to have one but may need to install a manual system to relieve pressure? I bought a new industrial battery and that didn't change the situation. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom
1) No, just no. Possibly there's air in the cylinder that's causing jerkiness? 2) What does it do that it won't start again for 10 minutes? Jdparts.com shows a hydraulic pump solenoid for a 410, and another picture shows a pump with a manual destroke valve, so? The solenoid should be easy to find, it will be the only wires going to the pump if there are any wires. In the meantime you could try operating the backhoe stick or bucket at the same time you crank it to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the advice. I ordered the tech manual on this machine to get a better handle on how to work on or check issues on it. The hydraulics on the front definitely have an issue where the engine even runs harder when using the loader bucket where as the backhoe applies no additional strain on the engine and runs very well. I also need to get the manual parking brake working which is either a linkage issue or worse since it does nothing and makes setting up using the backhoe on a hill difficult. Tom
That probably has a "priority valve" which shuts off the hydraulics to the loader if the pressure falls (to preserve steering and braking). Otherwise I can't think of anything that would "strain" the engine on a closed center hydraulic system. If the cylinders were binding up that bad there would be pieces falling off to give some sign of failure. How do the rods and outside of the cylinder barrels look? Does the bucket function behave the same as the loader up/down? Do they settle?
That priority valve makes sense. The loader and bucket work fine 90% of the time and then all of the sudden it starts that shuttering. The cylinders only appeared to bind up a couple times but there is no damage or pieces falling off anywhere. The hydraulics are very tight. The first night I bought it I had the loader bucket down hard holding up the front wheels and the next morning they hadn't moved at all. I was using the backhoe on a hill (loader downhill) and when I raised it up to hold the tractor from moving it very slowely lost loader hydraulics a few times but then later worked fine again. The engine runs great and the backhoe worked perfect. I was told this thing sat for maybe 10 years as an US Army piece so I hope to work with it more this weekend and maybe free up more stuff and hopefully it won't start falling apart or deteriorate.
Not sure if this posted before since I lost internet so if this is a duplicate I apologize: I have many things working better after changing all fluids and filters, fixed the parking brake, changed some hoses etc but based on my technical manual my accumulator isn't operating. Should I buy new or can they be rebuilt? Mine is a RE11966 or sub is RE29331 with a Deere price of about $900 or on Ebay $349. Any advice. Another new issue is I heard a metal to metal thunk a few times when shifting between forward and reverse. Rarely happens but seems to be under the seat and doesn't sound healthy. Any ideas what that is? Thanks, Tom
I've never done it but I don't see why they can't be rebuilt. Just another extremely simple hydraulic component. If you can get it apart and it's not toasted, and can get the needed parts, you should be good. Fix the accumulator and see what that does to the clunk.
Agree that I need to fix the accumulator and then see if it still has the clunk. The accumulator seems to affect all the hydraulic systems the best I can tell. Thanks, Tom
I've researched the accumulator and understand the parts within the housing but it isn't clear if I can do this myself or these are rebuilt by a service dealer? I understand they have to be charged by a service dealer but can it be rebuilt without special tools? Any advice before I open it up would be appreciated. I spoke to the JD Dealer and he says the one I have is piston and not the bladder type but wasn't much help.
Be careful. Accumulators I've worked with, had a charge of gas inside. Hundreds or thousands of PSI. Be sure to release the pressure before opening.
What exactly does your technical manual say that indicates the accumulator isn't working? The accumulator that I'm familiar with is for reserve braking. There are accumulator/modulators in some transmissions, but those aren't precharged as far as I know. If you can find the fittings and a Nitrogen cylinder then you can recharge an accumulator yourself, but it's probably not worth the hassle.
Delmer: The manual said on shut off of the engine to turn the wheel and the power steering should hold briefly but mine goes out instantly when I turn it off. My understanding is this accumulator affects the steering and the front bucket hydraulics so I am primarily trying to identify that situation where the front bucket hydraulics aren't smooth. It may not correct that but figured I'd try one thing at a time and hope the best before moving on to the next possibility. I don't have any equipment to perform hydraulic hose and valve testing. Thanks, Tom
Since my last post I drained the fluid and cleaned the screen which was about 90% clogged, replaced the fuel gauge and sender, replaced the temp gauge, tightened up some leaking hose connections and replaced a lot of the wiring. Not a single leak. The tractor runs great and expect the front bucket shutter, which rarely happens now, is a sticking hydraulic valve. I expect I can just start taking them out and checking the springs and cleaning them up?
Was that the fuel tank or hydraulic fluid? You shouldn't have to clean up the valves, just use them and the new fluid will keep them clean. How does the fluid look after you've been using it? cause unless you did something extreme, draining the fluid and adding new only changes half the fluid.
I removed the screen for the hydraulic fluid so it drained out about 10 gallons of the 20. The fuel tank fix was just to replace the sender in the tank so I could monitor the level since that came broken also. The hydraulic fluid looks pretty good after the 50% change with the reservoir drain to remove the screen. The screen was nearly clogged with something like grease viscosity gunk and no metal shavings. My only thought was that maybe the front bucket cylinder shuttering once in awhile was due to a hydraulic valve sticking and wondered if I should check them. I've put maybe 12 hours on the machine since the hydraulic fluid and all filter change so maybe the front loader cylinder shutter will clear up with more use? Cleaning the screen drastically improved the speed of all the hydraulics.
I'd run it and see. I was thinking there might be water that will cause foaming and stuttering etc. Or air getting in the fluid doing the same thing. Both caused by old oil with no additives left. Half new oil should be fine as long as there isn't too much water in the old stuff. Run it like a rental. Also, all the testing and checkout in the manual starts with warming the fluid up to 100 degrees and then diagnosing the problems, these things are built to work all day, not to start up and function flawlessly at 30 degrees.